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Post by maninasuitcase on Aug 26, 2024 21:59:44 GMT
Or maybe this
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2024 22:06:18 GMT
Bocats heatmap shows that he was quite wide in possession in our half and pretty narrow in their half which screams inverted full back, but who knows? Junior's heatmap is harder to decypher since he was all over the place. Compared to other full backs in the league this weekend, Bocat's is quite different. Where do you find heatmaps? Whoscored chalkboard. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 26, 2024 23:36:59 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-steven-schumacher-mike-pejic-9510043I don't often agree with Pejic and I think he has generally been quite positive towards SS but this article is exactly what I thought on Saturday. I even said what he says about Million. I couldn't understand where he was supposed to be playing as he was drifting all over the place and as Pejic said neither it seemed did Million himself. Junho didn't seem to understand what his role was either. Gooch was obviously there to help Bocat defensively or why would he be on the left wing when we had two genuine wide left players on the pitch. It seems that Schumacher was so worried about WBA's strengths that he forgot about ours. He could have had the same 11 on the pitch and kept it simple by having Gooch playing deep alongside Thompson with Laurent playing further forward like he did towards the end of last season. Bae, Koumas and Million across the front. I thought Bae got the idea of tracking back to help out defensively well at the end of last season. Instead he got played in an unfamiliar role against one of the best organised teams in the division who completely marked him out of the game. The substitutions just muddied the waters and we ended up with our best player of the day moved to the left wing where he was less effective, two strikers who've never before played together and play completely different styles of football, Baker out on the right wing, Burger playing deep where he's not at his best. It's the beginning of the season and OK, we were completely out played second half at Watford, but he should know what system he wants to play and has been using in training and pre season, pick the best players for that system. In training (and we had a full free week) emphasise the opposition's strengths and ways of overcoming those strengths when they have the ball and weaknesses that we can target when we have the ball but just stick to our formation. Changing it to stop the opposition I would imagine puts fear into our players and it showed. He's always talking about playing with confidence but you wouldn't have guessed on Saturday.
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Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Aug 27, 2024 0:31:46 GMT
Gave up on formations with Alf Ramsey and his wingless wonders ..And Lou Macari used to ignore formations ...
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Post by stayingupforbigbazza on Aug 27, 2024 0:32:55 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-steven-schumacher-mike-pejic-9510043I don't often agree with Pejic and I think he has generally been quite positive towards SS but this article is exactly what I thought on Saturday. I even said what he says about Million. I couldn't understand where he was supposed to be playing as he was drifting all over the place and as Pejic said neither it seemed did Million himself. Junho didn't seem to understand what his role was either. Gooch was obviously there to help Bocat defensively or why would he be on the left wing when we had two genuine wide left players on the pitch. It seems that Schumacher was so worried about WBA's strengths that he forgot about ours. He could have had the same 11 on the pitch and kept it simple by having Gooch playing deep alongside Thompson with Laurent playing further forward like he did towards the end of last season. Bae, Koumas and Million across the front. I thought Bae got the idea of tracking back to help out defensively well at the end of last season. Instead he got played in an unfamiliar role against one of the best organised teams in the division who completely marked him out of the game. The substitutions just muddied the waters and we ended up with our best player of the day moved to the left wing where he was less effective, two strikers who've never before played together and play completely different styles of football, Baker out on the right wing, Burger playing deep where he's not at his best. It's the beginning of the season and OK, we were completely out played second half at Watford, but he should know what system he wants to play and has been using in training and pre season, pick the best players for that system. In training (and we had a full free week) emphasise the opposition's strengths and ways of overcoming those strengths when they have the ball and weaknesses that we can target when we have the ball but just stick to our formation. Changing it to stop the opposition I would imagine puts fear into our players and it showed. He's always talking about playing with confidence but you wouldn't have guessed on Saturday. Pej is spot on again... |
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Post by canadianmoose on Aug 27, 2024 0:51:32 GMT
What would be nice is if our manager or coach (any of the last few we have had) would simply pick one system, train and drill the roles and responsibilities into each of the players and then go out and execute it on match day.
A team that is playing and coached well and confident couldn't give a shit about what formation the opposition is playing. They go out and play.
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 27, 2024 6:01:33 GMT
Where do you find heatmaps? I use Sofascore. Where do you find heatmaps? Whoscored chalkboard. I've looked at both of these and it looks even less conclusive. In possession, Bocat was very strongly in the left full back position or the corner of the West Brom box, as said. However, his average position in the game was very much alongside Gibson and Wilmot, while Tchamadeu was in a more advanced position level with Gooch. Junho and Mamhoef almost look like inside forwards with the two wing backs providing the width, though I suppose the positional reshuffles after the subs will skew some of those positions. Look at West Brom's average positions, in contrast. The team shape is as clear as day. |
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Post by thestatusquo on Aug 27, 2024 6:07:44 GMT
What would be nice is if our manager or coach (any of the last few we have had) would simply pick one system, train and drill the roles and responsibilities into each of the players and then go out and execute it on match day. A team that is playing and coached well and confident couldn't give a shit about what formation the opposition is playing. They go out and play. He did say something in his interview about having to change what they’d worked on because WB had done something he hadn’t expected |
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 27, 2024 6:17:03 GMT
Million kept coming central leaving there LB and LW 2 on 1 against our weakest player. This also took away one of our main threats as Million is a threat Right of a front 3. It was baffling didn't understand it at all.
Bae I think will work as a 10 but Thompson and particularly Laurent didn't have a clue where how to play 6 when two of them were deployed there. They didn't move across the pitch and just stayed doing nothing in their little square they thought they should be in.
First half was as shambolic as I've seen to be honest set up wise.
Just play 4-3-3 and stop fucking about.
Same as the rumours of this inverted full back stuff. Let's walk before we even attempt to run.
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Post by delilahwhy on Aug 27, 2024 6:24:28 GMT
At times Koumas was up front, playing centrally. At others he was more left hand side with Junho central. They appeared to rotate somewhat.
Not got a clue about the rest.
The reaction after the 2nd goal said a lot.
Pretty much the whole team stood around pointing at each other and scratching heads. That was the most obvious evidence that they didn't have a clue what was being asked of them, and it's extremely damming of our head coach.
Seriously, if you didn't notice it, try and watch it back. It was embarrassing.
We had a clear week to prepare for that game. No midweek cup or league match. An entire clear week to prepare. And somehow we managed to muster that complete mess. It was a shambles.
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Post by roylandstoke on Aug 27, 2024 7:32:12 GMT
Lots of different theories and interpretations from confused fans on this thread; most with some merit.
I’m pretty sure the player’s conversation on this subject would feature at least as many different views.
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Post by J-Roar on Aug 27, 2024 7:39:57 GMT
Coach is overthinking it.
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Post by mamathestriker on Aug 27, 2024 7:43:06 GMT
At times Koumas was up front, playing centrally. At others he was more left hand side with Junho central. They appeared to rotate somewhat. Not got a clue about the rest. The reaction after the 2nd goal said a lot. Pretty much the whole team stood around pointing at each other and scratching heads. That was the most obvious evidence that they didn't have a clue what was being asked of them, and it's extremely damming of our head coach. Seriously, if you didn't notice it, try and watch it back. It was embarrassing. We had a clear week to prepare for that game. No midweek cup or league match. An entire clear week to prepare. And somehow we managed to muster that complete mess. It was a shambles. I noticed it, I'm not sure I've ever seen such a long discussion from the players after conceding. Like you say, embarrassing for SS. We can moan all we like about lack of signings (or the right signings) but the tactics were woeful on Saturday. |
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 27, 2024 8:56:03 GMT
At times Koumas was up front, playing centrally. At others he was more left hand side with Junho central. They appeared to rotate somewhat. Not got a clue about the rest. The reaction after the 2nd goal said a lot. Pretty much the whole team stood around pointing at each other and scratching heads. That was the most obvious evidence that they didn't have a clue what was being asked of them, and it's extremely damming of our head coach. Seriously, if you didn't notice it, try and watch it back. It was embarrassing. We had a clear week to prepare for that game. No midweek cup or league match. An entire clear week to prepare. And somehow we managed to muster that complete mess. It was a shambles. You could see Laurent pointing to where Million should have been and Million pointing upfront indicating he'd been told to go central and leave a player completely free basically. We've got a coach over thinking it currently. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Aug 27, 2024 9:57:23 GMT
I've looked at both of these and it looks even less conclusive. In possession, Bocat was very strongly in the left full back position or the corner of the West Brom box, as said. However, his average position in the game was very much alongside Gibson and Wilmot, while Tchamadeu was in a more advanced position level with Gooch. Junho and Mamhoef almost look like inside forwards with the two wing backs providing the width, though I suppose the positional reshuffles after the subs will skew some of those positions. Look at West Brom's average positions, in contrast. The team shape is as clear as day. I am sure Stoke had different positions in and out of possession. I think when we lost the ball Gooch was told to drop to full back and Bocat to go central. I don't see the point. We already had enough positional problems with Junho and Million seemingly not knowing where they should be. And surely it's better to defend from the front than having your wide left forward rushinh back to full back? As DM Thompson should be the one filling the gaps. |
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Post by thornestein on Aug 27, 2024 9:59:18 GMT
just shows how muddled he got his tactics on saturday when you have so many ppl saying we played one system or another
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Aug 27, 2024 11:55:13 GMT
We were absolutely rubbish but at no point were we playing 3 centre backs. It definitely started as 3 centre backs and Bocat was very narrow out of posession right up until the subs started. Bizarre. Why sign a full back who's strength is supposedly going forward and has the capability of playing wing back, then when you do start a game in 5/3/2 3/4/3 whatever you want to call it, you drop him in to centre half and play a guy who looks like his legs have gone over the summer at wing back. Makes no sense. If i never see us attempt to fuck with 3/5 at the back again it will be too soon. |
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Post by chamberlain on Aug 27, 2024 12:47:49 GMT
What would be nice is if our manager or coach (any of the last few we have had) would simply pick one system, train and drill the roles and responsibilities into each of the players and then go out and execute it on match day. A team that is playing and coached well and confident couldn't give a shit about what formation the opposition is playing. They go out and play. He did say something in his interview about having to change what they’d worked on because WB had done something he hadn’t expected While the Baggies are a decent side they are not exactly Man City are they. Just play your own game for God sake. |
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Post by desman2 on Aug 27, 2024 13:01:20 GMT
I watched the game when West Brom played Leeds at home and their weakest area was on the left of defence. Their left back couldn't handle being attacked and looked very shaky. If I can notice that then why not the coaching team. Rather than press this guy we let him more or less have a nice easy time of it.
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Post by dirtclod on Aug 27, 2024 14:23:46 GMT
I watched the game when West Brom played Leeds at home and their weakest area was on the left of defence. Their left back couldn't handle being attacked and looked very shaky. If I can notice that then why not the coaching team. Rather than press this guy we let him more or less have a nice easy time of it. WBA was just faffing around at the back playing "possession football" and we were just sitting back like they WERE Man. City. Anyone who attacks that WBA defense that can actually handle and pass a ball will shred them this season if they keep playing like that. If we keep playing like we did, (which I HOPE and don't think that we will)..well...that's unprintable, even on here. |
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Post by Gary Hackett on Aug 27, 2024 14:52:29 GMT
We definitely started with the Paul Gallagher Christmas Tree formation, why we did that when we are playing at home to WBA i'll never know.
After the 1st goal went in we switched to the fuck knows what's going on formation.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Aug 27, 2024 14:55:06 GMT
It was a pretty straightforward 4-4-2.
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Post by emretezzy on Aug 27, 2024 14:57:05 GMT
It was a pretty straightforward 4-4-2. It was definitely Laurent and Thompson holding with Bae as a 10 and Koumas upfront. Million and Gooch was anyones guess. |
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Post by dexter97 on Aug 27, 2024 16:03:25 GMT
Whatever formation it was, it was horrible to watch, and even worse when the subs came on!!! I don't think I've ever seen a more ridiculous series of substitutions from a professional coach and in a bizarre way its almost comforting that a group of thrown together out of position footballers managed to see the game out in those last 15 minutes without taking a tonking. I didn't manage to work-out who was supposed to be where by the end. I wouldn't have been surprised by an announcement that we were playing rush goalie. |
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Post by greystokie on Aug 27, 2024 16:09:52 GMT
If Junior wasn't playing as a wing back then that is one of the worst performances from a full back that I've seen for a long time. (And he wasn't all that great as a wing back, either)
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Post by Son of Sausage on Aug 27, 2024 18:42:45 GMT
If it was the Xmas tree formation,the fecking lights were switched off. and we've spent all summer trying to find the Star  |
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