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Post by elystokie on Jun 2, 2024 11:57:22 GMT
It's not a legitimate question that you're asking ... Firstly, you and I might believe that it is simply a make believe deity but to many people, God is inherently real and as such, the chant to go fuck himself, is explicitly chanted to be supremely offensive to the people's it's aimed at. It wouldn't have anything like the same effect if they were chanting "who is Mickey Mouse?" Secondly, "from the river to the sea" is NOT surreptitiously implying the destruction of a country and it's population, although the likes of Braverman and the right wing press have attempted to convince you otherwise, over the last six months. But rather, it is a chant that has been sung by BOTH Palestinians and Israelis for years, a chant expressing a desire on one hand, to live in a land free from armed oppression and aparthied and on the other hand, from fear of armed resistance and terrorism. Netanyahu himself, amongst other members of the Knesset, regularly use the term. Isn't Allah the Arabic word for God, therefore taken literally the abuse is directed at any believer whatever their belief system? The whole thing is Mickey Mouse, killing each other in the name of a make believe entity that they all agree is the same "being", but believe they worship in a better way than the other. And we're supposed to be the most intelligent creatures on the planet, do me a favour. My dog licking his own balls has more fucking sense. I agree with the sentiment but I think you're being somewhat harsh on Rover with the analogy. To imply that he lacks common sense for doing what a lot of us probably would if we could is a bit unfair š
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 2, 2024 12:02:05 GMT
Law makers? In my view if you look at someone who is one race and you have no ill feeling towards them, but you look at someone of another race and you do have ill feeling, then that's racism. If the only reason you think ill of them is because they look different to you, then that's racist. If you think it's normal to hate people with brown skin because they anger you, scare you, you don't like seeing them with people of your race, you don't like seeing them be successful or any other reason then I guess you won't believe you're a racist, because you just think it's normal to dislike someone because of the levels of melanin in their skin. That makes sense if you take the word brown out of the last paragraph then it's more than reasonable. Sorry, should have said 'for example' as it applies in any situation. Have edited now.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jun 2, 2024 12:03:24 GMT
So Iāll ask you the same question Huddy failed to answer,do you believe that all those thousands of folk on that march yesterday are racists then? Having met precisely none of them I can't say. I don't know what motivated them to attend the march. Based on what I've seen of Tommy Robinson over the years, particularly his obsession with sexual abuse only when it's perpetrated by non white people, then I'd conclude that he probably is a racist. Also, I'd say that chanting "Allah, Allah, who the fuck is Allah" is designed to inflame tensions and is clearly aimed at one particular group of people, who predominantly happen to be non white and is also racist. If Tommy and his ilk were equally as angry at the Catholic church and The Pope then I'd perhaps think differently. I equally felt that parts of the BLM movement took on a racist narrative. However, I couldn't say that everyone who attended a BLM march was racist though. Iād say a majority of those folk on the march are not Tommy Robinson fans/supporters as such but heās the bloke organising things for folk whoāve genuinely had enough of whatās going on in our towns/cities.Itāll be interesting for me if the turnout is bigger on July 27th for the next one
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Post by iancransonsknees on Jun 2, 2024 12:06:07 GMT
Isn't Allah the Arabic word for God, therefore taken literally the abuse is directed at any believer whatever their belief system? The whole thing is Mickey Mouse, killing each other in the name of a make believe entity that they all agree is the same "being", but believe they worship in a better way than the other. And we're supposed to be the most intelligent creatures on the planet, do me a favour. My dog licking his own balls has more fucking sense. I agree with the sentiment but I think you're being somewhat harsh on Rover with the analogy. To imply that he lacks common sense for doing what a lot of us probably would if we could is a bit unfair š If he had any common sense he'd get someone else to do it for him.
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Post by elystokie on Jun 2, 2024 12:10:13 GMT
I agree with the sentiment but I think you're being somewhat harsh on Rover with the analogy. To imply that he lacks common sense for doing what a lot of us probably would if we could is a bit unfair š If he had any common sense he'd get someone else to do it for him. Obviously š But that's not always an option š
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 2, 2024 12:37:34 GMT
Is Tommy Robinson a racist? Other than the videos I see posted on here I canāt say as I know much about the bloke. The ones that Iāve seen, show him going on about grooming gangs and islamistsā¦ Deep down who knows. I think he probably puts on a bit of a front on camera and sort of adopts an alter ego when he's doing his videos and what not. The people who fund him to push division similarly are they racist or are they just super wealthy and want to keep the working class divided so no eyes are on them? Who knows. What even is a racist? What's the threshold between being racist and not racist. I don't think it's as black and white as made out. Children aren't racist. Maybe putting such an emphasis on racism nearly helps it manifest as people are always looking for it. Left, right, white, brown, black, Christian, jew, muslim. It's in everyone's best interests to unite rather than divide. While we fight over manufactured divisions, inequality just keeps growing. And that's the common enemy of all of us (in my opinion). Superb post
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 12:39:49 GMT
This is a 100% true.
Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to share a short journey with somebody I had never met before and during that journey he told me that he wasn't a racist, in fact he said he loved foreign culture.
However if 'they' want to do 'it', then they should go back to where they came from to do it. He instigated the conversation and you could see the actual rage in his eyes as he was talking, I suspect I wasn't the only stranger he vented on that day.
The thing is, I'm sure he genuinely didn't believe that he was racist, I told him that he was (the 'conversation' ended very quickly).
But this is it, many racists don't even realise that they are actually racist.
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 2, 2024 12:49:24 GMT
This is a 100% true. Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to share a short journey with somebody I had never met before and during that journey he told me that he wasn't a racist, in fact he said he loved foreign culture. However if 'they' want to do 'it', then they should go back to where they came from to do it. He instigated the conversation and you could see the actual rage in his eyes as he was talking, I suspect I wasn't the only stranger he vented on that day. The thing is, I'm sure he genuinely didn't believe that he was racist, I told him that he was (the 'conversation' ended very quickly). But this is it, many racists don't even realise that they are actually racist. In the same respect (not in this case necessarily) Iām sure thereās plenty of people that overly use the word āracistā to describe someone that isnāt just because they think theyāre an expert and become judge, jury and executioner. Itās not just racism though is it itās all forms of prejudice. Thereās plenty that show the same prejudice that people do re racism on other groups such as the Royals, Tories and Police when they judge an individual who theyāve never met under one banner. Everybodyās guilty of it.
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Post by musik on Jun 2, 2024 12:55:25 GMT
Who is allowed to define it? Law makers? In my view if you look at someone WHO IS ONE RACE and you have no ill feeling towards them, but you look at SOMEONE OF ANOTHER RACE and you do have ill feeling, then that's racism. If the only reason you think ill of them is because they look different to you, then that's racist. I don't know how to make letters bold on my mobile phone so I spelled parts of your post with capital letters instead. I must ask: Is it even common to speak of different races in the UK? Noone does in Sweden. Not for the last 60-70 years anyway. If you say "race" here nowadays I even think you can get a fine, some kind of punishment anyway. Looking at my grandfather's and my father's old dictionary books they were talking races all the time. No wonder, The Social Democrats were leading the famous Race Biological Institute up here many decades ago. But the times have changed. In Sweden all people are considered to look the same, so you can't say someone has coloured skin. Not even to me if I manage to get a sun tan. Further Q: if you don't prefer people with another skin colour than yours sexually, is that racism?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 12:56:43 GMT
This is a 100% true. Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to share a short journey with somebody I had never met before and during that journey he told me that he wasn't a racist, in fact he said he loved foreign culture. However if 'they' want to do 'it', then they should go back to where they came from to do it. He instigated the conversation and you could see the actual rage in his eyes as he was talking, I suspect I wasn't the only stranger he vented on that day. The thing is, I'm sure he genuinely didn't believe that he was racist, I told him that he was (the 'conversation' ended very quickly). But this is it, many racists don't even realise that they are actually racist. In the same respect (not in this case necessarily) Iām sure thereās plenty of people that overly use the word āracistā to describe someone that isnāt just because they think theyāre an expert and become judge, jury and executioner. Itās not just racism though is it itās all forms of prejudice. Thereās plenty that show the same prejudice that people do re racism on other groups such as the Royals, Tories and Police when they judge an individual who theyāve never met under one banner. Everybodyās guilty of it. Yes you're right everybody is guilty of some sort of prejudice to a degree, right down to football referees but that would expand the topic to an infinite discussion, of course if you want to take it there, go for it but I was trying to keep my reply on point to the topic being discussed.
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Post by sticky on Jun 2, 2024 12:59:37 GMT
This is a 100% true. Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to share a short journey with somebody I had never met before and during that journey he told me that he wasn't a racist, in fact he said he loved foreign culture. However if 'they' want to do 'it', then they should go back to where they came from to do it. He instigated the conversation and you could see the actual rage in his eyes as he was talking, I suspect I wasn't the only stranger he vented on that day. The thing is, I'm sure he genuinely didn't believe that he was racist, I told him that he was (the 'conversation' ended very quickly). But this is it, many racists don't even realise that they are actually racist. What did ātheyā want to do? Thereās a massive issue that needs to be talked about regarding Islam, if it upsets people then so be it.. Iād imagine 95% of British Muslims just want to live in peace and follow the same values as 95% of Christianās Jews sheiks etc etc. however the worry comes from the 5% whoās beliefs are abhorrent. The utter shit show of this government weāve got, does anybody have any confidence in the migrants coming over are being vetted properly? I donāt, and whatās going on in Israel/palestine is going to make things much worse imo
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2024 13:14:42 GMT
Having met precisely none of them I can't say. I don't know what motivated them to attend the march. Based on what I've seen of Tommy Robinson over the years, particularly his obsession with sexual abuse only when it's perpetrated by non white people, then I'd conclude that he probably is a racist. Also, I'd say that chanting "Allah, Allah, who the fuck is Allah" is designed to inflame tensions and is clearly aimed at one particular group of people, who predominantly happen to be non white and is also racist. If Tommy and his ilk were equally as angry at the Catholic church and The Pope then I'd perhaps think differently. I equally felt that parts of the BLM movement took on a racist narrative. However, I couldn't say that everyone who attended a BLM march was racist though. Iād say a majority of those folk on the march are not Tommy Robinson fans/supporters as such but heās the bloke organising things for folk whoāve genuinely had enough of whatās going on in our towns/cities.Itāll be interesting for me if the turnout is bigger on July 27th for the next one Not sure if it was you that claimed yesterday's march contained people of all races mate? If it was I don't think your claim carries much weight.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 13:14:52 GMT
Is Tommy Robinson a racist? Other than the videos I see posted on here I canāt say as I know much about the bloke. The ones that Iāve seen, show him going on about grooming gangs and islamistsā¦ Deep down who knows. I think he probably puts on a bit of a front on camera and sort of adopts an alter ego when he's doing his videos and what not. The people who fund him to push division similarly are they racist or are they just super wealthy and want to keep the working class divided so no eyes are on them? Who knows. What even is a racist? What's the threshold between being racist and not racist. I don't think it's as black and white as made out. Children aren't racist. Maybe putting such an emphasis on racism nearly helps it manifest as people are always looking for it. Left, right, white, brown, black, Christian, jew, muslim. It's in everyone's best interests to unite rather than divide. While we fight over manufactured divisions, inequality just keeps growing. And that's the common enemy of all of us (in my opinion). Tommy Robinson is clearly a racist. I don't think it matters if he actually believes what he says, or he just says it for the money. Saying it just for the money is actually, probably even worse. 'Londistan' is a racist, Islamaphobic trope and yet he (and many others) felt more than comfortable to walk through the streets of London yesterday carrying a huge banner proclaiming as much. They 'want their country back', back from WHO exactly? We had EXACTLY these same calls back in the 70's and the 80's from the NF and the BNP, nothing has changed, the sentiment is the same. It died off a bit in the 90's and the naughties, when people's standard of living was raised but now (you could possibly argue understandably) it's beginning to raise it's ugly head again. When I watched the speech of Laurence Fox yesterday, you could see The Beauceant being flown right next to the The Star of David and I thought, just what on earth is going on here, what is this protest actually about?
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jun 2, 2024 13:16:02 GMT
I've only ever heard him state he's against Islam itself and as Islam is a religion not a race he's not a racist. I don't agree with any religion and that doesn't make me a racist but I'm sure there are some on here that would say it does. Strictly speaking being against Islam for its own sake is Islamaphobia which strictly speaking is not racism as originally defined. However there are parallels in terms of attitudes and behaviours and in 2018 an All Party Group in Parliament defined Islamaphobia as: "Islamaphobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that target Muslimness or perceived Muslimness." So in terms of the definition defined by Parliament, which in turn determines the effectivem legal definition, Robinson is a racist as a result of his Islamaphobic views. They can describe it as that mate but it doesn't change the fact that religions are not races. So strictly speaking it's wrong as a person of any race can follow any religion.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 13:17:55 GMT
This is a 100% true. Just a couple of weeks ago, I had to share a short journey with somebody I had never met before and during that journey he told me that he wasn't a racist, in fact he said he loved foreign culture. However if 'they' want to do 'it', then they should go back to where they came from to do it. He instigated the conversation and you could see the actual rage in his eyes as he was talking, I suspect I wasn't the only stranger he vented on that day. The thing is, I'm sure he genuinely didn't believe that he was racist, I told him that he was (the 'conversation' ended very quickly). But this is it, many racists don't even realise that they are actually racist. What did ātheyā want to do? Thereās a massive issue that needs to be talked about regarding Islam, if it upsets people then so be it.. Iād imagine 95% of British Muslims just want to live in peace and follow the same values as 95% of Christianās Jews sheiks etc etc. however the worry comes from the 5% whoās beliefs are abhorrent. The utter shit show of this government weāve got, does anybody have any confidence in the migrants coming over are being vetted properly? I donāt, and whatās going on in Israel/palestine is going to make things much worse imo He was talking about their culture. I was paraphrasing. He actually said that if he wanted to see foreign culture, then he would go on holiday. Completely agree with you on your 95/5% point.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 13:19:24 GMT
Strictly speaking being against Islam for its own sake is Islamaphobia which strictly speaking is not racism as originally defined. However there are parallels in terms of attitudes and behaviours and in 2018 an All Party Group in Parliament defined Islamaphobia as: "Islamaphobia is rooted in racism and is a type of racism that target Muslimness or perceived Muslimness." So in terms of the definition defined by Parliament, which in turn determines the effectivem legal definition, Robinson is a racist as a result of his Islamaphobic views. They can describe it as that mate but it doesn't change the fact that religions are not races. So strictly speaking it's wrong as a person of any race can follow any religion. It really isn't mate. Accross most of the Western World, Islamaphobia is considered racist. Jews are not a race but antisemitism is definitely an example of racism.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Jun 2, 2024 13:27:11 GMT
They can describe it as that mate but it doesn't change the fact that religions are not races. So strictly speaking it's wrong as a person of any race can follow any religion. It really isn't mate. Accross most of the Western World, Islamaphobia is considered racist. So if me, a white person, converts to Islam and someone makes "islamaphobic" comments towards me, can I claim I've been racially abused?
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 13:33:41 GMT
It really isn't mate. Accross most of the Western World, Islamaphobia is considered racist. So if me, a white person, converts to Islam and someone makes "islamaphobic" comments towards me, can I claim I've been racially abused? I'm not sure what point you're trying to make Mickey, what I've stated is a fact. Being abused for being Islamic is racism, regardless of the colour of your skin, just like being abused for being Jewish is racism, regardless of the colour of your skin.
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Post by sticky on Jun 2, 2024 13:34:38 GMT
They can describe it as that mate but it doesn't change the fact that religions are not races. So strictly speaking it's wrong as a person of any race can follow any religion. It really isn't mate. Accross most of the Western World, Islamaphobia is considered racist. Itās the āIslamaphobiaā phrase that I donāt agree with. I think most rational people arenāt afraid of your average Muslim getting on with his life the same as you and me. However, itās not an irrational fear to be concerned, about Islamic fundamentalists teaching hate in this country, itās quite real and needs to be cracked down on. I feel sorry for ordinary Muslims I really do, they get the brunt of it when shit houses carry out attacks, but again until a proper discussion is had about the teachings of Islam, I donāt see how things progress Do most Muslims support throwing gays of buildings? Of course not. Apostasy meated out with a death sentences? No However some do and itās worrying (Just for balance some of the catholics thoughts on homosexuality are equally as vile)
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Post by sticky on Jun 2, 2024 13:39:45 GMT
It really isn't mate. Accross most of the Western World, Islamaphobia is considered racist. So if me, a white person, converts to Islam and someone makes "islamaphobic" comments towards me, can I claim I've been racially abused? Exactly, so if somebody says to an atheist youre going to hell fire for being a non believer, is that racism?
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Jun 2, 2024 13:40:21 GMT
Iād say a majority of those folk on the march are not Tommy Robinson fans/supporters as such but heās the bloke organising things for folk whoāve genuinely had enough of whatās going on in our towns/cities.Itāll be interesting for me if the turnout is bigger on July 27th for the next one Not sure if it was you that claimed yesterday's march contained people of all races mate? If it was I don't think your claim carries much weight. No it wasnāt me but tweets like this may say otherwise Thereās hundreds of tweets out there of the non stereotypes that are being portrayed by you and the media
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 2, 2024 13:41:25 GMT
It really isn't mate. Accross most of the Western World, Islamaphobia is considered racist. Itās the āIslamaphobiaā phrase that I donāt agree with. I think most rational people arenāt afraid of your average Muslim getting on with his life the same as you and me. However, itās not an irrational fear to be concerned, about Islamic fundamentalists teaching hate in this country, itās quite real and needs to be cracked down on. I feel sorry for ordinary Muslims I really do, they get the brunt of it when shit houses carry out attacks, but again until a proper discussion is had about the teachings of Islam, I donāt see how things progress Do most Muslims support throwing gays of buildings? Of course not. Apostasy meated out with a death sentences? No However some do and itās worrying (Just for balance some of the catholics thoughts on homosexuality are equally as vile) I'm not sure of the point you're making initially. Are you saying that you don't think being Islamophobic is being racist? I think you've hit the nail on the head with your Catholic remark. You can't tar entire religions with the same brush, the 'issues' ordinarily come from very small elements within those communities. Which takes us back to the question of ... who do they actually 'want their country back' from?
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Post by lordb on Jun 2, 2024 13:48:13 GMT
Just find that a loaded phrase, implying virtue Seen enough football volience/cowardice to know there is no virtue to these people
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Post by sticky on Jun 2, 2024 13:50:55 GMT
Itās the āIslamaphobiaā phrase that I donāt agree with. I think most rational people arenāt afraid of your average Muslim getting on with his life the same as you and me. However, itās not an irrational fear to be concerned, about Islamic fundamentalists teaching hate in this country, itās quite real and needs to be cracked down on. I feel sorry for ordinary Muslims I really do, they get the brunt of it when shit houses carry out attacks, but again until a proper discussion is had about the teachings of Islam, I donāt see how things progress Do most Muslims support throwing gays of buildings? Of course not. Apostasy meated out with a death sentences? No However some do and itās worrying (Just for balance some of the catholics thoughts on homosexuality are equally as vile) I'm not sure of the point you're making initially. Are you saying that you don't think being Islamophobic is being racist? I think you've hit the nail on the head with your Catholic remark. You can't tar entire religions with the same brush, the 'issues' ordinarily come from very small elements within those communities. Which takes us back to the question of ... who do they actually 'want their country back' from? I think islamaphobic is a word that tryās to cover every aspect of any criticism of Islam, a bit like over on the Israel thread we here anti semite being branded about like confetti. Obviously if your walking round shouting the p word then yes of course it is. Criticising a certain aspects of Islam that arenāt fitting in todays society, then no I donāt. Still think about that teacher whoās in hiding for showing a fucking cartoon, itās ridiculous, imo of course As for what they want back, Iād imagine home towns have changed at an unprecedented pace and are barely recognisable to what they once remember.. not like itās going to change mind
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Post by sticky on Jun 2, 2024 13:53:09 GMT
Anyway Iām off to paint some fencesš nice discussion this morning on here, no insults are slinging shitty remarks aboutšš»yetš
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jun 2, 2024 13:56:48 GMT
Just find that a loaded phrase, implying virtue Seen enough football volience/cowardice to know there is no virtue to these people I phrased it wrong mate. I wasn't intending to paint them as heroes if it came across that way.
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Post by musik on Jun 2, 2024 13:57:04 GMT
Q: Do you have to believe in the Experiment to not be called a racist, where the experiment means mixing of people from different countries and/or with different religions within the same country?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 2, 2024 13:58:22 GMT
Not sure if it was you that claimed yesterday's march contained people of all races mate? If it was I don't think your claim carries much weight. No it wasnāt me but tweets like this may say otherwise Thereās hundreds of tweets out there of the non stereotypes that are being portrayed by you and the media So you're admitting that the vast majority on that march yesterday where predominantly white middle aged men? Correct?
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Post by milton58 on Jun 2, 2024 14:00:36 GMT
Iād say a majority of those folk on the march are not Tommy Robinson fans/supporters as such but heās the bloke organising things for folk whoāve genuinely had enough of whatās going on in our towns/cities.Itāll be interesting for me if the turnout is bigger on July 27th for the next one Not sure if it was you that claimed yesterday's march contained people of all races mate? If it was I don't think your claim carries much weight. I see Adam trying to put a spin on it how the fuck can you draw a conclusion of that photo...he's just searched for all white people bit of a fool trying to incite trouble
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jun 2, 2024 14:01:35 GMT
They can describe it as that mate but it doesn't change the fact that religions are not races. So strictly speaking it's wrong as a person of any race can follow any religion. It really isn't mate. Accross most of the Western World, Islamaphobia is considered racist. Jews are not a race but antisemitism is definitely an example of racism. Racism is when a person is treated worse, excluded, disadvantaged, harassed, bullied, humiliated or degraded because of their race or ethnicity.
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