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Post by Picasso on Apr 28, 2024 15:52:17 GMT
Promotion. This league is fucking shit. You don’t need to be good to get out of it. I agree you don't have to be good to get out of the league but disagree about the league being shit 😂 for a second division, there are quite a lot of teams that play decent football It’s one of the best quality second tier leagues in the world - As always, money sees to that. This nonsense that it’s a ‘shit’ league , that we hear year on year is just that, nonsense. It’s a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s ‘shit’. This league is massively better than it used to be…. Years ago, it was made up of, virtually all, British players. The quality has improved, obviously, now that there’s players from all over the world… Competitive, not shit. Should definitely be going for promotion though.
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Post by chayseeoatcake on Apr 28, 2024 15:53:02 GMT
Top 6 or why bother?
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Post by Pugsley on Apr 28, 2024 15:55:44 GMT
I said it at the start of last season with that clueless fuck Neil in charge... promotion challenge. Same applies to Schumacher - he has to deliver a better season and see us at least trying to get in the top 6.
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Post by drippinggoatsnob on Apr 28, 2024 16:13:48 GMT
The last 10 matches are not something to base thoughts on really. Ultimately, we have to consider individually if players cut the mustard. We need a keeper, a commanding defender, a left back, a centre mid for competition (Baker doesn't look to be a long term solution to a high energy game), a forward.
Iverson, McNally, Hoever, Stevens, Cundle, Wesley, Haks are all leaving. This is a big player churn again and I'd imagine a season marginally better than this would be classed as progress.
We are 3 years away from a play off charge or 5 years from automatic as the DNA needs to establish.
I like SS and at times we have played some good stuff but our tender underbelly and lack of a threat in the final third are fairly big obstacles. Do I see him with us in the Prem....no, not at all and as Bayern stated in twitter if he sees Christmas it would be classed as success.
Season ticket bought as always, I'll sing my heart out, happy clap and give them everything I have but I'm saying it how I see it... 😞
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 28, 2024 16:14:08 GMT
I agree you don't have to be good to get out of the league but disagree about the league being shit 😂 for a second division, there are quite a lot of teams that play decent football It’s one of the best quality second tier leagues in the world - As always, money sees to that. This nonsense that it’s a ‘shit’ league , that we hear year on year is just that, nonsense. It’s a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s ‘shit’. This league is massively better than it used to be…. Years ago, it was made up of, virtually all, British players. The quality has improved, obviously, now that there’s players from all over the world… Competitive, not shit. Should definitely be going for promotion though. The standard is shocking. The games are generally dull as dishwater and the players are of low quality. It’s competitive for sure because everyone is so damn shite.
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Post by coldtuesdaynight on Apr 28, 2024 16:17:58 GMT
We should at least be close to the top 6 to call it a successful season in my opinion. Get the summer transfer window correct and I think anything other than top half means we should try a new manager for 25/26.
I honestly think we should have been nowhere near the bottom 3 this season. A combo of Neil and Martin seeming to be incredulous that they weren’t allowed to sign a first 11 of ex Preston players, some crazy score lines in Schumacher’s early spell where more shots seemed to equal less goals and the club making some strange decisions on the left back and centre forward positions all added up to a season that meant we underperformed.
Hopefully the Junior, Burger, Bae and Manhoef signings are the type we can mostly expect going forward, with the odd Lleris and Mae thrown in who don’t quite settle despite seeming decent punts at the time, and the cash thrown at most of the other signings was due to their short term low risk nature, or Alex bloody Neill.
Get another 4 like those mentioned before and we’ll finally have something that looks like it could work in this division. If we instead sign 85 wingers on loan again then I take it all back, and just hope we stay up.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 28, 2024 16:20:50 GMT
Last time Burnley were in this league under Kompany they romped it. The league is low on quality and anyone half decent will do well if they can cope with the attritional nature of the fixtures coming thick and fast. It does astonish me how many fans of Leicester and Southampton have seemingly moaned about possession focused football this season, despite the fact it’s pretty obvious that a lot of their success is getting 40 odd games out of most of their best players. Compare it to us where only 4 players have managed that tally. It’s not just because we’re having to spend a lot more game time chasing the ball, but it’s not a complete coincidence either. Few of our players have actually looked tired, barring Bae and Burger. Most haven’t managed a full season because they have been shit.
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Post by mtrstudent on Apr 28, 2024 16:37:22 GMT
Get another 4 like those mentioned before and we’ll finally have something that looks like it could work in this division. If we instead sign 85 wingers on loan again then I take it all back, and just hope we stay up. That's why I supported the recruitment approach last summer. If you get 4 quality players and a few solid squad members every year you could build a playoff challenge every 2-3 seasons. Oh and we cut our wage bill.
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Post by Picasso on Apr 28, 2024 16:40:08 GMT
It’s one of the best quality second tier leagues in the world - As always, money sees to that. This nonsense that it’s a ‘shit’ league , that we hear year on year is just that, nonsense. It’s a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s ‘shit’. This league is massively better than it used to be…. Years ago, it was made up of, virtually all, British players. The quality has improved, obviously, now that there’s players from all over the world… Competitive, not shit. Should definitely be going for promotion though. The standard is shocking. The games are generally dull as dishwater and the players are of low quality. It’s competitive for sure because everyone is so damn shite. You should try and generalise more. As for dull as dishwater games, do you not think some of the most overhyped top of the table Premier League clashes have ended up as dull games whilst some apparently no mark game between two lower teams can end up being a classic? Dullness of game has little to do with quality and more to do with types of opposition facing each other - In fact, shiteness (and therefore, more mistakes) can make for more exciting games.
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Post by Trouserdog on Apr 28, 2024 16:50:01 GMT
We've been largely crap now for 6 seasons and haven't come close to finishing in the top half, let alone the play offs.
If Schumacher can deliver a top 12 finish next season, that has to be viewed as progress. Obviously we aim to win 46 games and go up with 138 points, but I don't think that will happen somehow.
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 28, 2024 16:51:36 GMT
The last 10 matches are not something to base thoughts on really. Ultimately, we have to consider individually if players cut the mustard. We need a keeper, a commanding defender, a left back, a centre mid for competition (Baker doesn't look to be a long term solution to a high energy game), a forward. Iverson, McNally, Hoever, Stevens, Cundle, Wesley, Haks are all leaving. This is a big player churn again and I'd imagine a season marginally better than this would be classed as progress. We are 3 years away from a play off charge or 5 years from automatic as the DNA needs to establish. I like SS and at times we have played some good stuff but our tender underbelly and lack of a threat in the final third are fairly big obstacles. Do I see him with us in the Prem....no, not at all and as Bayern stated in twitter if he sees Christmas it would be classed as success. Season ticket bought as always, I'll sing my heart out, happy clap and give them everything I have but I'm saying it how I see it... 😞 Three years away?! We will be through 2 new managers by then 😂. Every year should be pushing to go up.
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Post by skip on Apr 28, 2024 17:09:59 GMT
It’s one of the best quality second tier leagues in the world - As always, money sees to that. This nonsense that it’s a ‘shit’ league , that we hear year on year is just that, nonsense. It’s a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s ‘shit’. This league is massively better than it used to be…. Years ago, it was made up of, virtually all, British players. The quality has improved, obviously, now that there’s players from all over the world… Competitive, not shit. Should definitely be going for promotion though. The standard is shocking. The games are generally dull as dishwater and the players are of low quality. It’s competitive for sure because everyone is so damn shite. The players are 'damn shite'? Really? All of them? They are some absolute ballers amongst the rest who in better sides would shine.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 28, 2024 17:18:00 GMT
I think we should set our goal high and aim to be in the playoff picture but not be disappointed with a mid table finish. I don't know why you want to set your goal so low. 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th, then 7th to 10th, then top half, then just enjoy more games than last season, then avoid relegation. Not sure why people are so keen to avoid disappointment it's something they should really have got over by the time they leave infants school. Can't disagree but I think targets need to be achievable or no one takes them seriously. It's been very clever of Schumacher to say that they've achieved the target he was set ie avoid relegation with one match to spare. Gives the players a reason to feel proud for finishing 18th or whatever. Good man management.
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Post by Glory Hunter on Apr 28, 2024 17:26:16 GMT
You should have gone to Specsavers. People are happy we've stayed up, that's all. Everyone knows it's been a poor season again. They don't need telling every 10 minutes by people who think they know it all. No they haven’t. “It’s not been good but it’s not been the worst” It absolutely has been the worst in the last 20 years. “We don’t need another overhaul” Well we need 7 new first team players which imo is a fucking overhaul. The standards are though the floor. No accountability has been had by this fanbase and the acceptance of utter shit is frightening. You appear to be the only person not pleased we stayed up. The recruitment in Summer will inform us of our potential. Quite happy to wait for that than accept your take on it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 28, 2024 17:50:03 GMT
No they haven’t. “It’s not been good but it’s not been the worst” It absolutely has been the worst in the last 20 years. “We don’t need another overhaul” Well we need 7 new first team players which imo is a fucking overhaul. The standards are though the floor. No accountability has been had by this fanbase and the acceptance of utter shit is frightening. You appear to be the only person not pleased we stayed up. The recruitment in Summer will inform us of our potential. Quite happy to wait for that than accept your take on it. Staying up is nothing to celebrate.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 28, 2024 17:55:35 GMT
You appear to be the only person not pleased we stayed up. The recruitment in Summer will inform us of our potential. Quite happy to wait for that than accept your take on it. Staying up is nothing to celebrate. I did! I understand the point you are making but I still felt good yesterday.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 28, 2024 17:58:14 GMT
Staying up is nothing to celebrate. I did! I understand the point you are making but I still felt good yesterday. I was relieved. But celebrating staying up pretty much sums up why I’m not sure we’ll ever change. This season has been a disaster.
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Post by baconburger on Apr 28, 2024 19:59:16 GMT
I don't know why you want to set your goal so low. 1st, then 2nd, then 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th, then 7th to 10th, then top half, then just enjoy more games than last season, then avoid relegation. Not sure why people are so keen to avoid disappointment it's something they should really have got over by the time they leave infants school. Can't disagree but I think targets need to be achievable or no one takes them seriously. It's been very clever of Schumacher to say that they've achieved the target he was set ie avoid relegation with one match to spare. Gives the players a reason to feel proud for finishing 18th or whatever. Good man management. Yes it should be achievable and clearly is. It’s extremely demanding but targets can be revised based on performance. If the target isn’t to win at the start you’ve almost taken away the point of competing.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Apr 28, 2024 20:12:44 GMT
It’s one of the best quality second tier leagues in the world - As always, money sees to that. This nonsense that it’s a ‘shit’ league , that we hear year on year is just that, nonsense. It’s a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s ‘shit’. This league is massively better than it used to be…. Years ago, it was made up of, virtually all, British players. The quality has improved, obviously, now that there’s players from all over the world… Competitive, not shit. Should definitely be going for promotion though. The standard is shocking. The games are generally dull as dishwater and the players are of low quality. It’s competitive for sure because everyone is so damn shite. Leeds, Leicester, Hull, Blackburn before they changed manager, Southampton all play really nice football. Watford, Ipswic, Swansea and a couple of others aren't too bad either. Of course the quality in the final third is inconsistent but all those teams can play it around pretty well. What's the alternative? Turning up against City and Arsenal knowing you're almost certain to get beat. It only takes one ugly team to ruin a game and sure we have our Cardiffs and Rotherhams but the prem has always had a few of those with dyche, Pulis and I'd put Mourinho in that category too
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 28, 2024 20:24:57 GMT
The standard is shocking. The games are generally dull as dishwater and the players are of low quality. It’s competitive for sure because everyone is so damn shite. Leeds, Leicester, Hull, Blackburn before they changed manager, Southampton all play really nice football. Watford, Ipswic, Swansea and a couple of others aren't too bad either. Of course the quality in the final third is inconsistent but all those teams can play it around pretty well. What's the alternative? Turning up against City and Arsenal knowing you're almost certain to get beat. It only takes one ugly team to ruin a game and sure we have our Cardiffs and Rotherhams but the prem has always had a few of those with dyche, Pulis and I'd put Mourinho in that category too The championship just operate a standard of Prem-Lite. Pass around the back all day but without the quality to do it well. Look how many times Southampton did it yesterday. It was laughably shit.
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Post by spiderpuss on Apr 28, 2024 20:29:28 GMT
Win next Saturday and we could be around 5-6 better results from top 6, so that would be my aim. Surely we can improve 5/6 results to a "win"?
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Apr 28, 2024 20:39:42 GMT
Sack manager approx Nov/Dec, get a new one, blame players, as new manager needs his own players. Randomly select line ups until something sticks, scrape by, avoid relegation. Season done.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Apr 28, 2024 20:50:40 GMT
After six consecutive bottom half finishes in this God-forsaken division (two of which we genuinely faced the prospect of relegation) just some signs of progress would be nice.
I am very much of the opinion that there are a lot of bang average teams at this level, so the fact that we have been so uncompetitive over such an extended period of time baffles me.
For me ...
1) A top half finish with a possible flirtation with the play-offs as a bonus.
2) A clear philosophy and style of play starting to be embedded into the team.
3) A more effective transfer policy that builds a more balanced squad.
I would like Schumacher to be given a couple of full seasons to see if he can build a team capable of challenging for promotion.
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Post by pavel on Apr 28, 2024 21:33:19 GMT
We should aim high behind closed doors, that is a given, but no baseless, unattainable promises.
We have a huge amount of work to do in the summer and it won’t be easy or realistic that we are going to be contenders after years of utter mediocrity and worse since we came down.
Top half of the table would be decent progress, playoffs dreamland and promotion Nirvana.
We can only dream it’s up to the club to get its act together to make this possible.
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Post by datguy on Apr 28, 2024 21:46:44 GMT
I think Jon (SJW) will want us aiming for promotion.
And why not? The league is shite, indeed. And thankfully it's only getting worse next season. The relegated teams are nothing to overly worry about.
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Post by drippinggoatsnob on Apr 29, 2024 10:08:28 GMT
The last 10 matches are not something to base thoughts on really. Ultimately, we have to consider individually if players cut the mustard. We need a keeper, a commanding defender, a left back, a centre mid for competition (Baker doesn't look to be a long term solution to a high energy game), a forward. Iverson, McNally, Hoever, Stevens, Cundle, Wesley, Haks are all leaving. This is a big player churn again and I'd imagine a season marginally better than this would be classed as progress. We are 3 years away from a play off charge or 5 years from automatic as the DNA needs to establish. I like SS and at times we have played some good stuff but our tender underbelly and lack of a threat in the final third are fairly big obstacles. Do I see him with us in the Prem....no, not at all and as Bayern stated in twitter if he sees Christmas it would be classed as success. Season ticket bought as always, I'll sing my heart out, happy clap and give them everything I have but I'm saying it how I see it... 😞 Three years away?! We will be through 2 new managers by then 😂. Every year should be pushing to go up. I can't argue with this at all and every season I hope to go up. Just as mangers don't look at the table for the first 10 matches, the last ten are the same. Pressure and desperation yield some strange results and the games against Southampton and to some degree Hull,confirm this. We are way off a promotion winning side. We have a manger feeling his managerial feet and we either are patient or demand a quick solution and throw the chequebook at a big name manager to go up. The chequebook route was blown on Rowett so I think we'll take a more patient view of things. I hope im wrong, I just don't see who we could sign which would change things so much that we are challenging for promotion just yet.
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Post by nottsover60 on Apr 29, 2024 11:12:38 GMT
I agree you don't have to be good to get out of the league but disagree about the league being shit 😂 for a second division, there are quite a lot of teams that play decent football It’s one of the best quality second tier leagues in the world - As always, money sees to that. This nonsense that it’s a ‘shit’ league , that we hear year on year is just that, nonsense. It’s a competitive league where anyone can beat anyone, but that doesn’t mean it’s ‘shit’. This league is massively better than it used to be…. Years ago, it was made up of, virtually all, British players. The quality has improved, obviously, now that there’s players from all over the world… Competitive, not shit. Should definitely be going for promotion though. So true. During th FA Cup saga the other week I was asked, if the EFL grew enough balls to stand up to the Premier and say we are going to have our own competitions independently, we will not accept relegated Premier teams into the EFL, nor will we promote our champions, which side of the divide would I want Stoke to be on. At first my response was Premier of course, but then when I thought of the club just being the chicken feed for the top half a dozen clubs, no chance of winning anything, no hope at the beginning of the season, I changed my mind and decided that after the prestige of being in the Premier has disappeared, there is far more excitement in the Championship.
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Post by stokie1947 on Apr 29, 2024 11:14:20 GMT
with some quality new signings play off's at least
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Post by 36dd on Apr 29, 2024 12:10:32 GMT
The interview SS did for Stoke after the game on Saturday was spot on, basically said that there’s nothing to celebrate and it’s more relief, but this club and squad need to be focused on the other end of the table. The goal is 3 wins on the bounce.
For me next season is having the ethos of having the mentality & belief to be a top 6 club.
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Post by Gaz on Apr 29, 2024 16:00:19 GMT
Gaz: Where will Stoke City finish in 2024-2025? ChatGPT: Based on Stoke City's recent performances and potential trajectory, they could aim for a mid-table finish in the 2024-2025 season. This would mean they might secure a comfortable position somewhere around 10th to 14th in the league standings.
Fair enough, but I was hoping it would say, "it's a funny old game, Saint."
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