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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 21:12:05 GMT
Collins was never a massively influential player for Stoke Souttar was. That's what did actually happen, what's happened with them after the point of sale was not material at the point of sale. No Collins wasnt but he was always rated better by those at the club and in football. Because he is miles better. Anyone who watched them knew which one would do better things. Collins was always miles better than Souttar. Yes he was probably rated better by people in the game but at the time of his move he was a far less influential player at Stoke and at championship level than Souttar therefore at the time of their respective moves the facts favoured Souttar, opinions favoured Collins.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 29, 2024 21:16:06 GMT
No Collins wasnt but he was always rated better by those at the club and in football. Because he is miles better. Anyone who watched them knew which one would do better things. Collins was always miles better than Souttar. Yes he was probably rated better by people in the game but at the time of his move he was a far less influential player at Stoke and at championship level than Souttar therefore at the time of their respective moves the facts favoured Souttar, opinions favoured Collins. That’s irrelevant though. Collins wasn’t being used right by us. He was Premier League ready, Souttar wasn’t. That was pretty obvious.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 21:32:35 GMT
Yes he was probably rated better by people in the game but at the time of his move he was a far less influential player at Stoke and at championship level than Souttar therefore at the time of their respective moves the facts favoured Souttar, opinions favoured Collins. That’s irrelevant though. Collins wasn’t being used right by us. He was Premier League ready, Souttar wasn’t. That was pretty obvious. I know you think facts are irrelevant and opinion particularly yours trumps everything. It wasn't obvious to Brendan Rogers but then what does he know compared to you
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 29, 2024 21:35:22 GMT
That’s irrelevant though. Collins wasn’t being used right by us. He was Premier League ready, Souttar wasn’t. That was pretty obvious. I know you think facts are irrelevant and opinion particularly yours trumps everything. It wasn't obvious to Brendan Rogers but then what does he know compared to you No, we mugged him. Which was excellent.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Jun 29, 2024 21:47:21 GMT
Given how hes done at Leicester, Id say Bayern has a point
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 21:49:12 GMT
I know you think facts are irrelevant and opinion particularly yours trumps everything. It wasn't obvious to Brendan Rogers but then what does he know compared to you No, we mugged him. Which was excellent. We didn't mug anyone. We sold them a very influential championship CB. No one was deceived, the price was not excessive for a dominant championship CB of his age that prior to his injury had been at the top of many championship metrics. These are facts, his move not having worked out does not change them.
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 21:53:13 GMT
Collins was never a massively influential player for Stoke Souttar was. That's what did actually happen, what's happened with them after the point of sale was not material at the point of sale. No Collins wasnt but he was always rated better by those at the club and in football. Because he is miles better. Anyone who watched them knew which one would do better things. Collins was always miles better than Souttar. Collins in football circles was in a different level to Souttar and still is. Absolutely different standards of footballers.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 21:53:42 GMT
Given how hes done at Leicester, Id say Bayern has a point Yeah ok if we get a striker who scores 20 goals in the league and Bayern says he's only ok we'll sell him for £5M instead of £20M. He might not score in the prem and go on to lose his place. Some logic.
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 21:55:45 GMT
Yes he was probably rated better by people in the game but at the time of his move he was a far less influential player at Stoke and at championship level than Souttar therefore at the time of their respective moves the facts favoured Souttar, opinions favoured Collins. That’s irrelevant though. Collins wasn’t being used right by us. He was Premier League ready, Souttar wasn’t. That was pretty obvious. Collins was highlighted by every major club in Europe. His issue was age (anyone who had watched over 1min of youth football knew he was a super-star) but by 18 he was off. Souttar is no where near Collins in any metric.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 21:56:17 GMT
No Collins wasnt but he was always rated better by those at the club and in football. Because he is miles better. Anyone who watched them knew which one would do better things. Collins was always miles better than Souttar. Collins in football circles was in a different level to Souttar and still is. Absolutely different standards of footballers. Yet on a football pitch in the championship he wasn't. One was rated as high potential the other was far more proven in the league below.
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 21:58:14 GMT
Collins in football circles was in a different level to Souttar and still is. Absolutely different standards of footballers. Yet on a football pitch in the championship he wasn't. One was rated as high potential the other was far more proven in the league below. One plays for the most data centric, statistics driven team in the world. The other can't get in Leicsters B team.
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Post by silsdenstokie on Jun 29, 2024 21:58:26 GMT
Given how hes done at Leicester, Id say Bayern has a point Yeah ok if we get a striker who scores 20 goals in the league and Bayern says he's only ok we'll sell him for £5M instead of £20M. He might not score in the prem and go on to lose his place. Some logic. Ask a Leicester fan if they overpaid for Souttar and I reckon theyd say yes Similar to us with Sam Vokes And before you ask I thought souttar was great for us Still think we got a very good fee for him
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 21:58:27 GMT
That’s irrelevant though. Collins wasn’t being used right by us. He was Premier League ready, Souttar wasn’t. That was pretty obvious. Collins was highlighted by every major club in Europe. His issue was age (anyone who had watched over 1min of youth football knew he was a super-star) but by 18 he was off. Souttar is no where near Collins in any metric. Other than metrics in championship football.
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 22:00:33 GMT
Collins in football circles was in a different level to Souttar and still is. Absolutely different standards of footballers. Yet on a football pitch in the championship he wasn't. One was rated as high potential the other was far more proven in the league below. And a lot of that was the age difference. Souttar was 20+. Collins was 18... Astronomical in terms of player development
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 22:01:25 GMT
Collins was highlighted by every major club in Europe. His issue was age (anyone who had watched over 1min of youth football knew he was a super-star) but by 18 he was off. Souttar is no where near Collins in any metric. Other than metrics in championship football. Yeah by the time Collins was ready for Champ football, he'd captained Stoke and fucked off.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 22:02:08 GMT
Yet on a football pitch in the championship he wasn't. One was rated as high potential the other was far more proven in the league below. One plays for the most data centric, statistics driven team in the world. The other can't get in Leicsters B team. Debate isn't about what they are now but what they were when they left Stoke. Collins was a high potential punt with very little senior football in his own position.
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Post by stuammo on Jun 29, 2024 22:02:21 GMT
No, we mugged him. Which was excellent. We didn't mug anyone. We sold them a very influential championship CB. No one was deceived, the price was not excessive for a dominant championship CB of his age that prior to his injury had been at the top of many championship metrics. These are facts, his move not having worked out does not change them. We absolutely did mug Leicester for £15m. He was never worth anywhere near that. He was a bang average centre half. Don’t get me wrong he was decent but certainly no where near Premier league standard and that was clear for all to see. Collins on the other hand was a stand out player of our recent era. he was head and shoulders above the rest. It was clear to see from the day he made his debut. I think if I recall correctly he captained the side at 18. He was miles better that Souttar from the word go.
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 22:05:30 GMT
One plays for the most data centric, statistics driven team in the world. The other can't get in Leicsters B team. Debate isn't about what they are now but what they were when they left Stoke. Collins was a high potential punt with very little senior football in his own position. Anyone in football would have said Collins is on a different level to Souttar. Was and still is by the way.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 22:13:26 GMT
Yeah ok if we get a striker who scores 20 goals in the league and Bayern says he's only ok we'll sell him for £5M instead of £20M. He might not score in the prem and go on to lose his place. Some logic. Ask a Leicester fan if they overpaid for Souttar and I reckon theyd say yes Similar to us with Sam Vokes And before you ask I thought souttar was great for us Still think we got a very good fee for him I wouldn't ask them if they thought they'd overpaid now the answer would be obvious as it would be for any transfer that goes bad. I think we got a decent fee for him, might actually have got a bit more but for his injury or if he'd re established himself and recovered the same club form. Based on the evidence at the time there's no way we had anyone's pants down, mugged them off or any other such rubbish.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Jun 29, 2024 22:16:11 GMT
What we did with Souttar is what we failed to do previously on numerous occasions, and that’s sell a player for an inflated fee when they’re in the midst of a purple patch.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 22:16:18 GMT
We didn't mug anyone. We sold them a very influential championship CB. No one was deceived, the price was not excessive for a dominant championship CB of his age that prior to his injury had been at the top of many championship metrics. These are facts, his move not having worked out does not change them. We absolutely did mug Leicester for £15m. He was never worth anywhere near that. He was a bang average centre half. Don’t get me wrong he was decent but certainly no where near Premier league standard and that was clear for all to see. Collins on the other hand was a stand out player of our recent era. he was head and shoulders above the rest. It was clear to see from the day he made his debut. I think if I recall correctly he captained the side at 18. He was miles better that Souttar from the word go. You're fucking bonkers. He barely even played for us in his own position.
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Post by hamsta2 on Jun 29, 2024 22:18:27 GMT
Yet on a football pitch in the championship he wasn't. One was rated as high potential the other was far more proven in the league below. And a lot of that was the age difference. Souttar was 20+. Collins was 18... Astronomical in terms of player development Not really. Ian Wright. Jamie Vardy. Etc.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 22:19:56 GMT
What we did with Souttar is what we failed to do previously on numerous occasions, and that’s sell a player for an inflated fee when they’re in the midst of a purple patch. Apart from the fact that he wasn't in the middle of a purple patch. Had not long returned from serious injury and hadn't recovered anything like his club form prior to injury. We were lucky with his exposure at the World Cup.
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 22:20:13 GMT
We absolutely did mug Leicester for £15m. He was never worth anywhere near that. He was a bang average centre half. Don’t get me wrong he was decent but certainly no where near Premier league standard and that was clear for all to see. Collins on the other hand was a stand out player of our recent era. he was head and shoulders above the rest. It was clear to see from the day he made his debut. I think if I recall correctly he captained the side at 18. He was miles better that Souttar from the word go. You're fucking bonkers. He barely even played for us in his own position. No he did. He captained Stokes first team at 18. Completely dominated areas of youth Football for Stoke that shouldnt be at that standard. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen.
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Post by baconburger on Jun 29, 2024 22:23:48 GMT
You're fucking bonkers. He barely even played for us in his own position. No he did. He captained Stokes first team at 18. Completely dominated areas of youth Football for Stoke that shouldnt be at that standard. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. He played very few games for our first team as a CB. He was therefore fairly unproven in senior football.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 29, 2024 22:28:26 GMT
No he did. He captained Stokes first team at 18. Completely dominated areas of youth Football for Stoke that shouldnt be at that standard. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. He played very few games for our first team as a CB. He was therefore fairly unproven in senior football. That was just terrible management though and was seen through by people that actually get football.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 29, 2024 22:29:26 GMT
Yankuba Minteh from Newcastle to Brighton for £33m because Newcastle are struggling with FFP... Quick question, has he ever played for Newcastle? I genuinely have no idea who he is? 🤣 No he hasn't Is this one of the transfers I read about the other say when teams basically swap young players and list some exorbitant fee to get around the P and S rules. So clubs swap unknown players and both players remarkably have the same value, say £30 million. The £30 million the club gets for selling their player goes immediately into the accounts but the fee they buy for is spread over the length of the contract, say 4 years which means that in the books,despite the fees being the same the club receives the full £30 million but only spends about £7.5 million wiping out over £20 million of debt.
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Post by stuammo on Jun 29, 2024 22:29:41 GMT
We absolutely did mug Leicester for £15m. He was never worth anywhere near that. He was a bang average centre half. Don’t get me wrong he was decent but certainly no where near Premier league standard and that was clear for all to see. Collins on the other hand was a stand out player of our recent era. he was head and shoulders above the rest. It was clear to see from the day he made his debut. I think if I recall correctly he captained the side at 18. He was miles better that Souttar from the word go. You're fucking bonkers. He barely even played for us in his own position. You are quite right. And even being played out of position he looked outstanding!!
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Post by emretezzy on Jun 29, 2024 22:40:31 GMT
No he did. He captained Stokes first team at 18. Completely dominated areas of youth Football for Stoke that shouldnt be at that standard. Just because you aren't aware of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. He played very few games for our first team as a CB. He was therefore fairly unproven in senior football. You won't have seen him but I can tell you in Under 23s you will have never seen a CB like him.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jun 29, 2024 22:53:19 GMT
Collins was a far better prospect than Souttar and has gone on to prove that. During his partnership with Souttar he was a far better defender, he did the basics whereas Souttar caught the eye for coming out of defence carrying the ball…….not defending
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