ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 139
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Post by ian57 on Feb 29, 2024 14:13:48 GMT
I’ve told you before mate,you are really wasting your time. What boils my piss mate is if this was Walters speaking if Pulis was the manager those criticising would say it was the club coming together as one in a time of need It’s fucking pathetic dead right I couldn’t agree more.
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 29, 2024 14:21:41 GMT
I’ve told you before mate,you are really wasting your time. What boils my piss mate is if this was Walters speaking if Pulis was the manager those criticising would say it was the club coming together as one in a time of need It’s fucking pathetic The problem is people can't get their thick skulls around us having a TD and a Head Coach. They're literally losing their shit because they don't understand anything other than Manager and Chairman.
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ian57
Academy Starlet
Posts: 139
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Post by ian57 on Feb 29, 2024 14:27:48 GMT
I would have thought that it was obvious that the Walter’s speech was to create unity and maybe hark back to the old days of a siege mentality with everyone pulling in the same direction.we have an interim technical director and manager who are both young,driven and ambitious but still some folk can only find negativity in everything.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 29, 2024 14:34:15 GMT
In every organisation I have worked someone at the very top has given some sort of annual address (either in person or via a video recording) and typically personally announced any really major piece of news relating to the future of the company and often those addresses include some sort of rallying cry. This is what SJW has done here - it's nothing out of the ordinary and there is nothing in it that undermines the Schumacher's authority. Anything to do with running the organization on a day to day basis would be done through the management structures as you say. If SJW were to swan in and take a training session or make suggestions for the starting 11 he would be undermining the Head Coach but he hasn't done that. And SJW has far too much class to treat Schumacher like a twat. That ain't John's style at all. Interestingly in today's article they were also in Everton's youth set up together and knew each other from then, so perhaps Walters has been brought in to offer whatever support he can.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 29, 2024 14:37:39 GMT
And SJW has far too much class to treat Schumacher like a twat. That ain't John's style at all. Interestingly in today's article they were also in Everton's youth set up together and knew each other from then, so perhaps Walters has been brought in to offer whatever support he can. My take on it is they're fellow Scousers who know and like each other and SJW has had a conversation with SS first before doing his interview so as not tread on his toes. Let's be honest there's not much a Technical Director can do in 12 weeks other than support the manager and hopefully take some pressure off him and the players so if that's all he ends up doing and it helps the team it can only be a good thing.........
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 29, 2024 14:43:11 GMT
Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed. Are you saying that PEP reports to a Sporting Director at Man. City, or JK reports to a Director of Football at Liverpool? Can't believe they do! Yes and Pulis reported to Coates weekly even if it was dressed up as having lunch together.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 29, 2024 14:57:19 GMT
Interestingly in today's article they were also in Everton's youth set up together and knew each other from then, so perhaps Walters has been brought in to offer whatever support he can. My take on it is they're fellow Scousers who know and like each other and SJW has had a conversation with SS first before doing his interview so as not tread on his toes. Let's be honest there's not much a Technical Director can do in 12 weeks other than support the manager and hopefully take some pressure off him and the players so if that's all he ends up doing and it helps the team it can only be a good thing......... He seems cool with it....
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 29, 2024 15:12:46 GMT
At face value, a rallying call is great, it’s positive and we should all try to be positive.
I guess it’s the only option we have.
It doesn’t address the issues though does it. If it was as simple as pulling together we wouldn’t be worrying about no left back, a decent CB or someone who can score.
Like I say, it’s all we have at present so let’s give it all on Saturday. (However cynical we might feel)
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Post by wakeypotter on Feb 29, 2024 15:36:45 GMT
At face value, a rallying call is great, it’s positive and we should all try to be positive. I guess it’s the only option we have. It doesn’t address the issues though does it. If was as simple as pulling together we wouldn’t be worrying about no left back, a decent CB or someone who can score. Like I say, it’s all we have at present so let’s give it all on Saturday. (However cynical we might feel) That’s exactly how I feel. We are in a bad position and we all need to play our part in the run in. We have issues at the club that do need sorting but we need to get out of this position together and we as fans can say we have done our part in trying to keep us up and no I’m not saying it’s the fans fault but I think we can help in the run in
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Post by march4 on Feb 29, 2024 16:15:00 GMT
A ‘rank above’. So SJW is the leader? Where does that leave the subordinate SS? The same as Pulis when everybody got behind pottermouth Did that mean he couldn’t motivate? Grow up all of yer ffs You’ve not answered the question though, mate and I’m sorry for being insistent but it is an essential detail. Who is the leader? Unless it’s clear to all, it just won’t work. TP was clearly the leader during his reign and Rudge, Francis and Reid were clearly subservient and it worked.
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Post by Scouse on Feb 29, 2024 16:20:32 GMT
Precisely. And in fact he isn't entitled to feel undermined by a Technical Director doing their job. If he feels threatened by this he has a problem - at the end of the day he works for the Technical Director and if the Technical Director wants to address the players they have every right to do so. It seems to me some people don't get (or don't want to accept) how this type of structure should work. We don't have a top dog manager anymore - we have a Head Coach who in terms of the management structure takes their orders from the Technical Director. The pecking order has changed. Are you saying that PEP reports to a Sporting Director at Man. City, or JK reports to a Director of Football at Liverpool? Can't believe they do! The DoF , TD and Sporting Director roles are still developing , there’s not a one system fits all clubs at present ..though it’s likely to become more standardised in the future with best practice being the influencer.. But due to the numerous departments , agents and sums of monies and the consequences to clubs of costly mistakes that now exist in support of the 1st team we’ve certainly moved away from the manager is god , supported by just the company secretary..as it’s considered too much for one man , so you have department heads reporting into some clubs the DoF ..at some clubs the 1st team and recruitment is seen as committee based , at others it’s structured management with the HC simply being a departmental head or lead For a long time Stoke had one of the best club secretaries in the industry ..Mike Potts who served the club for 38 years , but who sadly died in 1997 aged just 56 Areas of responsibility and reporting up and down the chain should all be done at recruitment and interview stage associationofsportingdirectors.com/understanding-the-role-of-the-sporting-director/
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 29, 2024 16:30:06 GMT
The same as Pulis when everybody got behind pottermouth Did that mean he couldn’t motivate? Grow up all of yer ffs You’ve not answered the question though, mate and I’m sorry for being insistent but it is an essential detail. Who is the leader? Unless it’s clear to all, it just won’t work. TP was clearly the leader during his reign and Rudge, Francis and Reid were clearly subservient and it worked. Sorry March but what you're saying is bollocks, you're talking like Stoke have just invented the TD and Head Coach set up when it's used by the vast majority of clubs these days, it works perfectly fine for them so why can't it work here?
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 29, 2024 16:32:47 GMT
Are you saying that PEP reports to a Sporting Director at Man. City, or JK reports to a Director of Football at Liverpool? Can't believe they do! The DoF , TD and Sporting Director roles are still developing , there’s not a one system fits all clubs at present ..though it’s likely to become more standardised in the future with best practice being the influencer.. But due to the numerous departments , agents and sums of monies and the consequences to clubs of costly mistakes that now exist in support of the 1st team we’ve certainly moved away from the manager is god , supported by just the company secretary..as it’s considered too much for one man , so you have department heads reporting into some clubs the DoF ..at some clubs the 1st team and recruitment is seen as committee based , at others it’s structured management with the HC simply being a departmental head or lead For a long time Stoke had one of the best club secretaries in the industry ..Mike Potts who served the club for 38 years , but who sadly died in 1997 aged just 56 associationofsportingdirectors.com/understanding-the-role-of-the-sporting-director/A really good article that backs up my assumed knowledge of how it all works. At no point in that article did it mention an interim appointment scampering down from his Ivory Towers to mete out some verbal beatings to the misguided and insolent proles on the shop floor, which is a disappointment.
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Post by gingerninja on Feb 29, 2024 16:59:19 GMT
What I can't understand, is how can Walters be involved in the thorough search for a permanent TD, when he could be in the running for it?. If he's not involved, who carries out this process?.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 29, 2024 17:09:42 GMT
What I can't understand, is how can Walters be involved in the thorough search for a permanent TD, when he could be in the running for it?. If he's not involved, who carries out this process?. The board. And if they have any sense they should work with a consultancy to do the leg work. SJW should be anywhere near the selection process if he is a candidate.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 29, 2024 17:16:21 GMT
The same as Pulis when everybody got behind pottermouth Did that mean he couldn’t motivate? Grow up all of yer ffs You’ve not answered the question though, mate and I’m sorry for being insistent but it is an essential detail. Who is the leader? Unless it’s clear to all, it just won’t work. TP was clearly the leader during his reign and Rudge, Francis and Reid were clearly subservient and it worked. The Head Coach leads on selection, tactics and training - the TD/DoF should not interfere. The TD/DoF is in charge of long term strategy and setting targets for the club and Head Coach. The Head Coach works under the TD/DoF. The TD/DoF can sack the Head Coach. The Head Coach can't sack the TD/DoF. The idea that one person ("the Manager") has final say in every decision is what has gone. In this model that type of leader does not exist. It's a hierarchy where responsibility is properly delegated down the line.
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Post by march4 on Feb 29, 2024 17:49:39 GMT
You’ve not answered the question though, mate and I’m sorry for being insistent but it is an essential detail. Who is the leader? Unless it’s clear to all, it just won’t work. TP was clearly the leader during his reign and Rudge, Francis and Reid were clearly subservient and it worked. Sorry March but what you're saying is bollocks, you're talking like Stoke have just invented the TD and Head Coach set up when it's used by the vast majority of clubs these days, it works perfectly fine for them so why can't it work here? It worked perfectly well for us with TP as leader and Rudge as a subservient DofF. The issue I have is who is the leader? Other clubs have clearly sorted this to their own ends but just giving people titles does not determine the essential question; who is the leader? (A question no one has yet answered with clarity).
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Post by march4 on Feb 29, 2024 17:51:54 GMT
You’ve not answered the question though, mate and I’m sorry for being insistent but it is an essential detail. Who is the leader? Unless it’s clear to all, it just won’t work. TP was clearly the leader during his reign and Rudge, Francis and Reid were clearly subservient and it worked. The Head Coach leads on selection, tactics and training - the TD/DoF should not interfere. The TD/DoF is in charge of long term strategy and setting targets for the club and Head Coach. The Head Coach works under the TD/DoF. The TD/DoF can sack the Head Coach. The Head Coach can't sack the TD/DoF. The idea that one person ("the Manager") has final say in every decision is what has gone. In this model that type of leader does not exist. It's a hierarchy where responsibility is properly delegated down the line. So a player is disgruntled about being played out of position and complains to the Head Coach’s boss - the DofF. The DofF sympathises with the player’s complaint. What happens next?
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Post by Roy Cropper on Feb 29, 2024 18:00:03 GMT
Struggling to understand people questioning the model.
It's similar to the VAR argument - the solution isn't the problem, the ***** using it are.
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Post by mickstupp on Feb 29, 2024 18:16:59 GMT
Struggling to understand people questioning the model. It's similar to the VAR argument - the solution isn't the problem, the ***** using it are. Because it’s a role that creates as many issues as it solves. Most can understand the need for a tier of management in between the head coach and the board, but the lines of accountability are very blurred. March makes a very valid point in my opinion.
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Post by march4 on Feb 29, 2024 18:27:13 GMT
Struggling to understand people questioning the model. It's similar to the VAR argument - the solution isn't the problem, the ***** using it are. Because it’s a role that creates as many issues as it solves. Most can understand the need for a tier of management in between the head coach and the board, but the lines of accountability are very blurred. March makes a very valid point in my opinion. Thank you.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 29, 2024 18:35:21 GMT
So many people stuck in a timewarp.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Feb 29, 2024 18:39:15 GMT
The Head Coach leads on selection, tactics and training - the TD/DoF should not interfere. The TD/DoF is in charge of long term strategy and setting targets for the club and Head Coach. The Head Coach works under the TD/DoF. The TD/DoF can sack the Head Coach. The Head Coach can't sack the TD/DoF. The idea that one person ("the Manager") has final say in every decision is what has gone. In this model that type of leader does not exist. It's a hierarchy where responsibility is properly delegated down the line. So a player is disgruntled about being played out of position and complains to the Head Coach’s boss - the DofF. The DofF sympathises with the player’s complaint. What happens next? He asks the player if he has spoken to head coach about this ?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Feb 29, 2024 18:56:37 GMT
So a player is disgruntled about being played out of position and complains to the Head Coach’s boss - the DofF. The DofF sympathises with the player’s complaint. What happens next? He asks the player if he has spoken to head coach about this ? And if the player says yes he has?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 29, 2024 19:00:46 GMT
The Head Coach leads on selection, tactics and training - the TD/DoF should not interfere. The TD/DoF is in charge of long term strategy and setting targets for the club and Head Coach. The Head Coach works under the TD/DoF. The TD/DoF can sack the Head Coach. The Head Coach can't sack the TD/DoF. The idea that one person ("the Manager") has final say in every decision is what has gone. In this model that type of leader does not exist. It's a hierarchy where responsibility is properly delegated down the line. So a player is disgruntled about being played out of position and complains to the Head Coach’s boss - the DofF. The DofF sympathises with the player’s complaint. What happens next? He shouldn't have gone to the DoF in the first place he should have gone to his line manager - the head coach.
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Post by march4 on Feb 29, 2024 19:11:47 GMT
So a player is disgruntled about being played out of position and complains to the Head Coach’s boss - the DofF. The DofF sympathises with the player’s complaint. What happens next? He asks the player if he has spoken to head coach about this ? Answer - 'yes'. What happens next?
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Post by march4 on Feb 29, 2024 19:13:07 GMT
So a player is disgruntled about being played out of position and complains to the Head Coach’s boss - the DofF. The DofF sympathises with the player’s complaint. What happens next? He shouldn't have gone to the DoF in the first place he should have gone to his line manager - the head coach. And he gets no satisfaction so he and his union rep go to see the head coach's boss who sympathises with their argument. What happens next?
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Post by Gary Hackett on Feb 29, 2024 19:31:51 GMT
He shouldn't have gone to the DoF in the first place he should have gone to his line manager - the head coach. And he gets no satisfaction so he and his union rep go to see the head coach's boss who sympathises with their argument. What happens next? The same as what would happen in any other line of work. I really don't see your point on this one.
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Post by FbrgVaStkFan on Feb 29, 2024 19:35:50 GMT
I wish I could feel positive about this, but the optics here looks very much like grasping at straws because "they" don't know what else to do with this club. "They" being everyone involved...ownership, management / administration, coaching, players, etc.
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Post by march4 on Feb 29, 2024 20:32:22 GMT
And he gets no satisfaction so he and his union rep go to see the head coach's boss who sympathises with their argument. What happens next? The same as what would happen in any other line of work. I really don't see your point on this one. So the leader over rules his subordinate. That would be SJW over ruling SS on where a player plays. Great! That will really work well. And we haven't even touched on the explanation of some posters that our long term strategy is going to be determined by someone who has been appointed for a 3 month stint. Its a complete mess mate, unless SJW is subordinate to SS just as Rudge was to TP.
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