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Post by numpty40 on Feb 12, 2024 21:04:00 GMT
Forget three at the back, we have to go 4-4-2 with defenders defending first and foremost. Then when we do have the ball the fullbacks move up the two wide middle attempt to go down the wing and support whoever is up front - think it needs to back to basics at this point in time. 4-4-2 is the obvious formation with this squad but it's clearly not fashionable with these young progressive coaches. A solid back 4 with full backs playing as full backs with 2 defensive central midfield players in a formation that is easy to understand and coach on the training ground. Football is quite a simple game but modern Pep wannabees make it more complicated than it needs to be.
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Post by wearepremierleague on Feb 12, 2024 21:09:34 GMT
Iversen Hoever Rose Wilmot Junior Burger Pearson Bae Manhoef Mmaee Vidigal
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Post by Fred Merger on Feb 12, 2024 21:23:49 GMT
Iverson
Tchamadeu McNally Rose Gooch
Burger Pearson Baker
Million Ennis Junho
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Feb 12, 2024 21:25:05 GMT
Iverson Tchamadeu McNally Rose Gooch Burger Pearson Baker Million Ennis Junho This but Thompson in place of Gooch
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Post by jokker on Feb 12, 2024 21:30:30 GMT
Totally agree he must know the defence is the problem so don't push the full backs up and leave gaps that the CH cannot cover, it's simple football,if he's not learnt from Saturday then he shouldn't be in charge on Thursday Yep, if he tries this inverted full-back crap on Wednesday and we get comfortably beaten then in my book he has to go. He has his principles, but in these circumstances he needs to be practical and realize that he needs to find a way to get results until he can assemble a squad capable of what he wants to do. He seems intent of filling the team with lightweight players with the thinking that they will win the game for us by retaining the ball and overloading the opposition. Basically played 5 forward thinking players against Blackburn- Ennis, Johnson, Vidigal, Bae and Mannhoef, leaving Burger as the one combative midfielder, asking the right and left back to push up and into midfield and leaving the centre backs totally exposed. If he does this versus QPR then god help us. Schuhmacher undoubtedly knows he has the board's full backing come what may, inverted fullbacks or not. You should be happy with a coach that sticks to his principles after 1½ years with a manager who had none.
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Post by mcw on Feb 12, 2024 22:26:58 GMT
Yep, if he tries this inverted full-back crap on Wednesday and we get comfortably beaten then in my book he has to go. He has his principles, but in these circumstances he needs to be practical and realize that he needs to find a way to get results until he can assemble a squad capable of what he wants to do. He seems intent of filling the team with lightweight players with the thinking that they will win the game for us by retaining the ball and overloading the opposition. Basically played 5 forward thinking players against Blackburn- Ennis, Johnson, Vidigal, Bae and Mannhoef, leaving Burger as the one combative midfielder, asking the right and left back to push up and into midfield and leaving the centre backs totally exposed. If he does this versus QPR then god help us. Schuhmacher undoubtedly knows he has the board's full backing come what may, inverted fullbacks or not. You should be happy with a coach that sticks to his principles after 1½ years with a manager who had none. I'd rather have a coach that can adapt his principles to fit the squad of players he has. I am not saying he has to give up his principles in the long run, more that any good coach should be able to see when his principles do not fit the qualities of his squad (athleticism/footballing intelligence/confidence whatever) and does what they need to in order to get results and secure precious time to then implement their principles in full through coaching current players to their full potential/shifting on wasters who will never be able to fit the vision you have.
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Post by spoton on Feb 12, 2024 22:49:52 GMT
Yep, if he tries this inverted full-back crap on Wednesday and we get comfortably beaten then in my book he has to go. He has his principles, but in these circumstances he needs to be practical and realize that he needs to find a way to get results until he can assemble a squad capable of what he wants to do. He seems intent of filling the team with lightweight players with the thinking that they will win the game for us by retaining the ball and overloading the opposition. Basically played 5 forward thinking players against Blackburn- Ennis, Johnson, Vidigal, Bae and Mannhoef, leaving Burger as the one combative midfielder, asking the right and left back to push up and into midfield and leaving the centre backs totally exposed. If he does this versus QPR then god help us. Schuhmacher undoubtedly knows he has the board's full backing come what may, inverted fullbacks or not. You should be happy with a coach that sticks to his principles after 1½ years with a manager who had none. No I'm not happy with a coach who cannot see passed his nose, principles mean nothing if his style of football doesn't suit the players he has,he will go and forget all about Stoke unfortunately I won't be able to do that
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Post by wilcopotter on Feb 12, 2024 22:52:56 GMT
Perm any 11 from 25, they’re all pretty shite barring Burger and Bae Jun Ho.
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Post by Glory Hunter on Feb 12, 2024 22:59:24 GMT
Perm any 11 from 25, they’re all pretty shite barring Burger and Bae Jun Ho. Burger is obviously the first name on the team sheet. I think Jun Ho is a talented, intelligent footballer and will grow and become a great player. The current scenario doesn’t suit him though and as tidy a passer and with great movement that he possesses, isn’t making the breakthroughs we need. I am a big fan of his but I also think we need to look after him a bit given the desperate situation we find ourselves in.
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Post by Northy on Feb 13, 2024 8:28:57 GMT
Iversen Wilmot Mcnally Rose Junior Bearson Burger Million Bae MMaee Ennis Bearson..... Is he Icelandic??? 🤔 He's Ben & Pearsons love child
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Post by Meirparkstokie on Feb 13, 2024 8:55:26 GMT
4-2-3-1 or 4-4-2 proper wingers, full backs playing full back. Someone playing off a striker...
Iversen
Gooch Mcnally Rose/Wilmot Junior
Burger Pearson
Manhoef Vidigal/leris/haks
Vidigal/Mmaee/Ennis
Wesley/Lowe
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Post by jokker on Feb 13, 2024 9:00:27 GMT
Schuhmacher undoubtedly knows he has the board's full backing come what may, inverted fullbacks or not. You should be happy with a coach that sticks to his principles after 1½ years with a manager who had none. I'd rather have a coach that can adapt his principles to fit the squad of players he has. I am not saying he has to give up his principles in the long run, more that any good coach should be able to see when his principles do not fit the qualities of his squad (athleticism/footballing intelligence/confidence whatever) and does what they need to in order to get results and secure precious time to then implement their principles in full through coaching current players to their full potential/shifting on wasters who will never be able to fit the vision you have. We'd all like our managers to be perfect specimen of the art with perfect solutions to every little problem. Unfortunately we are Stoke City, a below average team with mediocre players at best, with little initiative and no qualities to achieve things. They need leadership and a framework to work towards. Schuhmacher is giving them that.
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Post by rowleyscfc on Feb 13, 2024 9:03:24 GMT
For me 4-3-2-1 Bonham Tchamadeu McNally Rose Hoever Burger Baker Laurent Manhoef Junho Ennis I feel he will go 5221/3421 Bonham Tchamadue wilmot McNally Rose Gooch Baker Burger Manhoef Junho Ennis why in gods name would you pick HOEVER, Played there against Brum away had was steady enough, though gooch was poor for their first goal on Saturday
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Post by thestatusquo on Feb 13, 2024 9:19:12 GMT
Tough game. Someone needs to sit on that Chair
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Post by robstokie on Feb 13, 2024 9:23:26 GMT
Think we are almost at the stage now where we play Stoke Tombola - first 11 names out of the hat start. In all seriousness though, even though I hate 3/5 at the back, I think that's the way we have to go as none of the centre halves convince me and putting an extra body in there would hopefully increase the odds of having 1 in the right place. Also, we need to flood midfield with bodies and runners - just to try and kill games and then play a direct style, winning second balls and ensuring we don't concede territory where its going to hurt us. Finally, we need to start playing percentages into channels and force them back rather than fanny around with it at the back allowing the opposition to first set before pressing us into turning over the ball in dangerous areas. So,
Bonham (actually his best period for us before Iversen came in)
Rose (probably our best centre half, which in itself is frightening) Clarke (pray that experience will get him through as an organiser with those either side of him can track runners) McNally/Wilmot (ideally neither, both have been liabilities) Junior (poor Saturday, but generally been excellent. Also has the quality and work-rate to play as a wing back) Thompson (good, if limited pro. Left sided, better than Stevens, can tackle and can deliver a decent set piece when given the opportunity)
Pearson (very poor this season, but hopefully can do a job sitting in front of back 3) Gooch (solid pro who runs all day - just what we need in these 6 pointers. Not a full back though) Burger (no explanation needed)
Ennis (scored Saturday and has plenty of energy about him - also Schumis man so will understand exactly what we need him to do) Leris (again, excellent work rate allied with the ability to act as a focal point to push QPR back)
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Post by Caddick988 on Feb 13, 2024 9:44:47 GMT
Think he'll start with something like this;
Iverson
Junior McNally Rose Gooch
Burger Cundle Baker
Manhoef Ennis Bae
Although I think I'd prefer something like;
Iverson
Junior McNally Rose Gooch
Burger Pearson Bae
Manhoef Ennis Vidigal
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Post by idle on Feb 13, 2024 9:53:28 GMT
Tip for everyone on a PC - you can use the courier font ("font face") to get monospacing (all chars are the same width, except spaces for some reason). That makes is much easier to draw formations, like this:
...............Iversen............. Junior....Wilmot....Rose.....Hoever Leris......Bae.....Burger...Million ...............Wesley*............. *or Lowe ...............Ennis...............
(Just checking the team in a 4-4-1-1 Pulis style, doesn't look too bad actually, but I still prefer the 3421)
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Post by LGH87 on Feb 13, 2024 9:59:47 GMT
Based on our previous performances under Schuey and how we've looked most effective, I'd go with the following in a 3421 formation similar to Brum away, Brighton at home & 2nd half at home vs Brum.
Iversen
Hoever (I know I know but he's arguably looked at his best on the right of a 3, with Junior/Leris ahead of him) McNally Rose
Junior Burger Baker Manhoef (was signed as right sided attacker but did begin his career as a left back/left wing back, he's left footed so will offer better balance than Gooch and will offer more going forwards than JT)
Bae Haksabanovic (bit of a last chance saloon for Haks but I feel like he'd be able to offer more as a 10 than playing out wide in a 433)
Ennis (I'd pick Mmaee myself but this aint gonna happen)
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Post by Los Alfareros on Feb 13, 2024 11:39:43 GMT
Changed my mind, we need to go 4-4-fucking-2.
Full backs concentrate on defending, midfielders tackle, wide men run their bollocks off. Wes and Ennis to work together.
Bonham
Junior McNally Rose Gooch
Bae Burger Thompson Leris
Wes Ennis
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 13, 2024 11:48:38 GMT
Iverson Tchamadeu McNally Rose Gooch Burger Pearson Baker Million Ennis Junho This but Thompson in place of Gooch The only time Burger and Pearson played together for Schumacher they were both awful. Burger needs another box to box player alongside him. I don't know if Laurent can be pushed into this one. Otherwise I think Thompson has to play midfield and perhaps Hoever at left back. I agree Gooch hasn't looked good at full back. Fails to track his man. I would probably say play three central defenders with Hoever one of them and then Junior and Gooch can get forward more.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 13, 2024 13:00:10 GMT
I think we've looked best under Schumacher with 3 at the back - attacking fullbacks with a back 4 has made us easy to pick off.
Bonham Hoever McNally Rose Junior Cundle Burger JunHo Manhoef Ennis Wesley
If anything we've looked more vulnerable with Iverson and Wilmott in the side. I know Wesley hasn't done much but a more physical presence might help occupy the central defenders and provide space for the AMs and Ennis to work with and also provides a target for crosses from the wingbacks.
I'm loathe to suggest yet another change of formation and personnel but nothing seems to be working at the moment. At some point we need to play a consistent lineup but there is nothing in recent performances to build on. We need to find a formula to stick with soon.
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Post by mcw on Feb 13, 2024 13:06:49 GMT
I think we've looked best under Schumacher with 3 at the back - attacking fullbacks with a back 4 has made us easy to pick off. Bonham Hoever McNally Rose Junior Cundle Burger JunHo Manhoef Ennis Wesley If anything we've looked more vulnerable with Iverson and Wilmott in the side. I know Wesley hasn't done much but a more physical presence might help occupy the central defenders and provide space for the AMs and Ennis to work with and also provides a target for crosses from the wingbacks. I'm loathe to suggest yet another change of formation and personnel but nothing seems to be working at the moment. At some point we need to play a consistent lineup but there is nothing in recent performances to build on. We need to find a formula to stick with soon. I can't see he has any other choice than the above. A record of scored 2, conceded 11 in the last 3 games just can't continue. We are obviously not taking the chances we are creating and the risk/reward of creating more chances to possibly score more goals is being offset by a complete lack of understanding/defensive cohesion. Has to shore up the defence and work from there.
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Post by Wizbit on Feb 13, 2024 13:07:32 GMT
Press conference today??? Be interesting to see what's said
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Post by pushon on Feb 13, 2024 13:17:22 GMT
why in gods name would you pick HOEVER, Played there against Brum away had was steady enough, though gooch was poor for their first goal on Saturday I also think he looks more comfortable on the left side than the right. Maybe it's because it's unfamiliar to him and he doesn't stray out of position so often🤔
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Post by rowleyscfc on Feb 13, 2024 13:42:49 GMT
Played there against Brum away had was steady enough, though gooch was poor for their first goal on Saturday I also think he looks more comfortable on the left side than the right. Maybe it's because it's unfamiliar to him and he doesn't stray out of position so often🤔 Maybe a mental thing, less likely to switch off because of playing a relatively uncomfortable position
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Post by kickfortouch on Feb 13, 2024 13:45:34 GMT
I think we've looked best under Schumacher with 3 at the back - attacking fullbacks with a back 4 has made us easy to pick off. Bonham Hoever McNally Rose Junior Cundle Burger JunHo Manhoef Ennis Wesley If anything we've looked more vulnerable with Iverson and Wilmott in the side. I know Wesley hasn't done much but a more physical presence might help occupy the central defenders and provide space for the AMs and Ennis to work with and also provides a target for crosses from the wingbacks. I'm loathe to suggest yet another change of formation and personnel but nothing seems to be working at the moment. At some point we need to play a consistent lineup but there is nothing in recent performances to build on. We need to find a formula to stick with soon. I’d go similar. We somehow need some defensive solidity without reducing our already paltry goal output. I don’t want Vidigal, Campbell or Pearson anywhere near the team either so our wing options are limited unless SS puts Junho outside where I think he’s wasted. Possibly swap Cundle for Thompson to give the midfield a bit more bite as Cundle has looked soft so far. Obviously this puts our shiny new winger at LWB but in a 352 him and Junior should be able to get forward well without leaving the huge empty spaces behind them ala the Blackburn game. This also leaves the issue of who plays upfront with Ennis? Wesley can’t run but in a two it may sort of work. Lowe doesn’t look anywhere near ready but will run about more whilst still being an aerial presence. Similar for Leris. Other option could be Junho further forward and Cundle deeper although I don’t love that either.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Feb 13, 2024 14:22:06 GMT
I think we've looked best under Schumacher with 3 at the back - attacking fullbacks with a back 4 has made us easy to pick off. Bonham Hoever McNally Rose Junior Cundle Burger JunHo Manhoef Ennis Wesley If anything we've looked more vulnerable with Iverson and Wilmott in the side. I know Wesley hasn't done much but a more physical presence might help occupy the central defenders and provide space for the AMs and Ennis to work with and also provides a target for crosses from the wingbacks. I'm loathe to suggest yet another change of formation and personnel but nothing seems to be working at the moment. At some point we need to play a consistent lineup but there is nothing in recent performances to build on. We need to find a formula to stick with soon. I’d go similar. We somehow need some defensive solidity without reducing our already paltry goal output. I don’t want Vidigal, Campbell or Pearson anywhere near the team either so our wing options are limited unless SS puts Junho outside where I think he’s wasted. Possibly swap Cundle for Thompson to give the midfield a bit more bite as Cundle has looked soft so far. Obviously this puts our shiny new winger at LWB but in a 352 him and Junior should be able to get forward well without leaving the huge empty spaces behind them ala the Blackburn game. This also leaves the issue of who plays upfront with Ennis? Wesley can’t run but in a two it may sort of work. Lowe doesn’t look anywhere near ready but will run about more whilst still being an aerial presence. Similar for Leris. Other option could be Junho further forward and Cundle deeper although I don’t love that either. The 352 also addresses the issue of having an isolated central striker which is happening with 433/4321. I've no idea if Wesley and Ennis would work as a partnership but I do think we'd benefit from a striking partnership whatever that might be. With Stevens out we don't have any natural defensive fullbacks - the players we have for that position like to get forward and/or are really natural defenders so may as well play to their strengths and play them as wing backs with the safety blanket of 3 CBs.
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Post by stokecitydom on Feb 13, 2024 14:23:24 GMT
Iversen
Hoever Wilmott Rose Tchamadeu
Burger Thompson
Junho Baker Campbell
Mmaee
Obviously unlikely that Mmaee will even be included in the squad, but I’m far from convinced that any other strikers we have are fit for purpose.
We need abit more bite in the middle hence why I’d put Thompson in there.
Then you have to play Baker & Campbell as they are our two biggest goal threats & we look devoid of goal threat.
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Post by ursemboys on Feb 13, 2024 14:25:47 GMT
Iversen Hoever Wilmott Rose Tchamadeu Burger Thompson Junho Baker Campbell Mmaee Obviously unlikely that Mmaee will even be included in the squad, but I’m far from convinced that any other strikers we have are fit for purpose. We need abit more bite in the middle hence why I’d put Thompson in there. Then you have to play Baker & Campbell as they are our two biggest goal threats & we look devoid of goal threat. agree other than Campbell been a goal threat, he has no desire to play for Stoke (is desire on Saturday was f that )
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 13, 2024 14:34:13 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised if they stick Laurent straight in
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