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Post by jokker on Jan 15, 2024 10:14:57 GMT
Has he played 19 x 90 minutes to justify that criticism... It doesn’t matter. We don’t score a lot of goals. He’s an attacking midfielder that is a part of that problem. I think he’s going to be a great player for us but if you are on the pitch to score/create, you need to do that. He eventually will do and then there will quite rightly be a selection pressure for him. Of course it matters what your goal ratio is whether you've played 200 minutes or 2000 . It also matters whether your manager sent out the team to not lose, i.e. defend first and foremost, or whether they go out to win the game, i.e. freedom for Bae to express himself. I think it's well established that the former manager didn't have a clue as to how to use Bae, and so just used him sparingly. SS is still finding out, but at least he's not telling Bae to play against his strengths. He was never the problem. Our tactics were, and while Neil is gone, some remnants of those tactics still remain with each player.
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Post by tqstokie on Jan 15, 2024 10:19:33 GMT
We don't need to play Johnson or Pearson. Use them as emergency cover or as a last resort. We have better more mobile players.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 15, 2024 10:36:16 GMT
Not really sure with the negativity here.
“Damn you bastard for only being able to score goals as we score so often we don’t want more!”
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Post by numpty40 on Jan 15, 2024 11:00:40 GMT
He's a talent but he's played for 10 clubs over the past 10 years. Seems to have real purple patches when he looks class and then blows cold and looks fucking awful. The goal he scored Saturday was top drawer but he too frequently goes missing. If a decent offer comes in we should take it. He's been contracted to one club, and was loaned out regularly as per the Chelsea model. That's different to a player being signed and moved on by a load of clubs...... That's a fair point but even by the Chelsea model, 10 different clubs is unusual.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 15, 2024 11:16:22 GMT
It helps when you play him in his best position..... Unlike when O'Neill ruined him (after a great start to his stoke career) by moving him into a defensive midfield position..... A defensive midfielder he ain't!!!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2024 11:30:08 GMT
It helps when you play him in his best position..... Unlike when O'Neill ruined him (after a great start to his stoke career) by moving him into a defensive midfield position..... A defensive midfielder he ain't!!! O'Neill didn't ruin him, I think you're confusing him with Neil........
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 15, 2024 11:34:23 GMT
It helps when you play him in his best position..... Unlike when O'Neill ruined him (after a great start to his stoke career) by moving him into a defensive midfield position..... A defensive midfielder he ain't!!! O'Neill didn't ruin him, I think you're confusing him with Neil........ Not as all, bakers decline followed the season AFTER he signed for us, when O'Neill was still the manager, and he was playing Baker as a more defensive midfielder!!! I don't recall him ever playing a game under Neil, because he was injured for much of the time.... Not that Neil would have played him, it seems he'd pretty much made his mind up that Baker wasn't in his plans!!!
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 15, 2024 11:38:55 GMT
We have to play Baker next game for me. Appreciate there is competition for places. I really like Junho too and am confident that we will be a very good player at this level. But, for me, dropping a player who scored in the last fixture just sends out completely the wrong message. We need the whole squad to be pulling in the right direction atm. We need players who are really hungry and motivated to perform for the club, and the players believing that good performances will get them picked while poor ones will see them dropped (a la Daniel Johnson) is one way to do that. Also, bluntly, we don't score enough goals and Baker always offers a threat going forward. So he should stay in the side on that basis alone. Dropping Baker, in the form he’s clearly in now, would be little short of lunacy. I don't think he'll get dropped but what form? A great free kick and a peno, he's done very little else, if this is his good form we need to find better in the summer.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2024 11:57:08 GMT
O'Neill didn't ruin him, I think you're confusing him with Neil........ Not as all, bakers decline followed the season AFTER he signed for us, when O'Neill was still the manager, and he was playing Baker as a more defensive midfielder!!! I don't recall him ever playing a game under Neil, because he was injured for much of the time.... Not that Neil would have played him, it seems he'd pretty much made his mind up that Baker wasn't in his plans!!! He was a missed penalty away from scoring 3 in his first 6 games with 1 assist last season. He had a couple of poor games away at Millwall and at home to Sunderland but nothing out of the ordinary as the whole team were off it. He literally started the first 23 league games of AN's reign before being dropped for Hull City home game, after that he was sub for all bar one game for the remainder of the season. I think your timelines are all wrong........
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 15, 2024 12:33:54 GMT
It doesn’t matter. We don’t score a lot of goals. He’s an attacking midfielder that is a part of that problem. I think he’s going to be a great player for us but if you are on the pitch to score/create, you need to do that. He eventually will do and then there will quite rightly be a selection pressure for him. Of course it matters what your goal ratio is whether you've played 200 minutes or 2000 . It also matters whether your manager sent out the team to not lose, i.e. defend first and foremost, or whether they go out to win the game, i.e. freedom for Bae to express himself. I think it's well established that the former manager didn't have a clue as to how to use Bae, and so just used him sparingly. SS is still finding out, but at least he's not telling Bae to play against his strengths. He was never the problem. Our tactics were, and while Neil is gone, some remnants of those tactics still remain with each player. Cundle took Bae’s position. SS had been playing him but still no goals, still no assists. Five games is a small number but it’s not surprising that he was dropped. His work rate is phenomenal, he wants to take his player on, he’s only 20 years old, but he’s done little to warrant his place in the team right now in front of goal. I personally think a spell out of the team will be good for him. He’s had a taste of what the league is like and now he step back and consider what he needs to do to make the spot his own.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 15, 2024 12:47:29 GMT
Not as all, bakers decline followed the season AFTER he signed for us, when O'Neill was still the manager, and he was playing Baker as a more defensive midfielder!!! I don't recall him ever playing a game under Neil, because he was injured for much of the time.... Not that Neil would have played him, it seems he'd pretty much made his mind up that Baker wasn't in his plans!!! He was a missed penalty away from scoring 3 in his first 6 games with 1 assist last season. He had a couple of poor games away at Millwall and at home to Sunderland but nothing out of the ordinary as the whole team were off it. He literally started the first 23 league games of AN's reign before being dropped for Hull City home game, after that he was sub for all bar one game for the remainder of the season. I think your timelines are all wrong........ Nah, he may have played under Neil, I just don't recall, I'd lost interest.... But his decline started before Neil!!! I recall people's opinions on here about "what the hell has happened to him (under O'Neill) since his fantastic start for us last season???"..... Or words to that effect, people were crying out for him to be dropped!!!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2024 13:00:09 GMT
He was a missed penalty away from scoring 3 in his first 6 games with 1 assist last season. He had a couple of poor games away at Millwall and at home to Sunderland but nothing out of the ordinary as the whole team were off it. He literally started the first 23 league games of AN's reign before being dropped for Hull City home game, after that he was sub for all bar one game for the remainder of the season. I think your timelines are all wrong........ Nah, he may have played under Neil, I just don't recall, I'd lost interest.... But his decline started before Neil!!! I recall people's opinions on here about "what the hell has happened to him (under O'Neill) since his fantastic start for us last season???"..... Or words to that effect, people were crying out for him to be dropped!!! You can't casually dismiss the fact he played the first 23 games under AN whether you lost interest or not......................
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 15, 2024 13:11:25 GMT
Nah, he may have played under Neil, I just don't recall, I'd lost interest.... But his decline started before Neil!!! I recall people's opinions on here about "what the hell has happened to him (under O'Neill) since his fantastic start for us last season???"..... Or words to that effect, people were crying out for him to be dropped!!! You can't casually dismiss the fact he played the first 23 games under AN whether you lost interest or not...................... I'm not.... I'm merely stating that Baker's decline was already evident BEFORE Neil came in, and it didn't get any better!!! By the time Neil had come in, the players confidence was shot, and the fans had all but turned on him!!!! While we were just getting use to life under Neil, there were comments on here that the first thing Neil should do in the January transfer window, is get rid of Baker!!! So the rot had already set in under O'Neill, and in my opinion, it's because he messed the player around in midfield, one week playing him as a defensive midfielder, the next further up the pitch, the next back to defensive, ans so on!!!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2024 13:23:03 GMT
You can't casually dismiss the fact he played the first 23 games under AN whether you lost interest or not...................... I'm not.... I'm merely stating that Baker's decline was already evident BEFORE Neil came in, and it didn't get any better!!! By the time Neil had come in, the players confidence was shot, and the fans had all but turned on him!!!! While we were just getting use to life under Neil, there were comments on here that the first thing Neil should do in the January transfer window, is get rid of Baker!!! So the rot had already set in under O'Neill, and in my opinion, it's because he messed the player around in midfield, one week playing him as a defensive midfielder, the next further up the pitch, the next back to defensive, ans so on!!! The game before Neil joined he scored the only goal in a 1-0 win at Blackburn. He generally played the first 5 games under MON that season as one of 3 midfielders in a 3-5-2 with various partners due to injuries to Laurent/Thompson, not as a straight up defensive midfielder. And his confidence was that shot he had his best performance if the season a couple of weeks later at Hull when he scored 2 and assisted 1 in a 3-0 win, I must don't buy it sorry...........
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 15, 2024 13:54:59 GMT
I'm not.... I'm merely stating that Baker's decline was already evident BEFORE Neil came in, and it didn't get any better!!! By the time Neil had come in, the players confidence was shot, and the fans had all but turned on him!!!! While we were just getting use to life under Neil, there were comments on here that the first thing Neil should do in the January transfer window, is get rid of Baker!!! So the rot had already set in under O'Neill, and in my opinion, it's because he messed the player around in midfield, one week playing him as a defensive midfielder, the next further up the pitch, the next back to defensive, ans so on!!! The game before Neil joined he scored the only goal in a 1-0 win at Blackburn. He generally played the first 5 games under MON that season as one of 3 midfielders in a 3-5-2 with various partners due to injuries to Laurent/Thompson, not as a straight up defensive midfielder. And his confidence was that shot he had his best performance if the season a couple of weeks later at Hull when he scored 2 and assisted 1 in a 3-0 win, I must don't buy it sorry........... I'm not saying he didn't do well in those two games, but in general, he started the season poorly, under O'Neill and then Neil... irrespective of who his midfield partners were!!! In the end, Neil just started to prefer picking Smallbone over him!!!
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Post by jokker on Jan 15, 2024 13:56:30 GMT
Of course it matters what your goal ratio is whether you've played 200 minutes or 2000 . It also matters whether your manager sent out the team to not lose, i.e. defend first and foremost, or whether they go out to win the game, i.e. freedom for Bae to express himself. I think it's well established that the former manager didn't have a clue as to how to use Bae, and so just used him sparingly. SS is still finding out, but at least he's not telling Bae to play against his strengths. He was never the problem. Our tactics were, and while Neil is gone, some remnants of those tactics still remain with each player. Cundle took Bae’s position. SS had been playing him but still no goals, still no assists. Five games is a small number but it’s not surprising that he was dropped. His work rate is phenomenal, he wants to take his player on, he’s only 20 years old, but he’s done little to warrant his place in the team right now in front of goal. I personally think a spell out of the team will be good for him. He’s had a taste of what the league is like and now he step back and consider what he needs to do to make the spot his own. You jumped to conclusions, but as is often the case the wrong one. Bae was injured, that's all that it was, he was not dropped at all- Listen to what SS says, you might be wiser to what he does. Bae will be playing again when fit, sometimes together with Cundle, sometimes not.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jan 15, 2024 14:03:22 GMT
If played in his best possition,he his capable of scoring 10,12,or more goals a season.
Those goals are even more valuable when you don't have a 20+ goal scorer in the squad.
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Post by gingerninja on Jan 15, 2024 14:11:55 GMT
I think Bae was a mainstay in SS's team before the injury at the weekend, which indicates to me he is pivotal in his plans moving forward..So he should be, he's a great prospect.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2024 14:14:44 GMT
The game before Neil joined he scored the only goal in a 1-0 win at Blackburn. He generally played the first 5 games under MON that season as one of 3 midfielders in a 3-5-2 with various partners due to injuries to Laurent/Thompson, not as a straight up defensive midfielder. And his confidence was that shot he had his best performance if the season a couple of weeks later at Hull when he scored 2 and assisted 1 in a 3-0 win, I must don't buy it sorry........... I'm not saying he didn't do well in those two games, but in general, he started the season poorly, under O'Neill and then Neil... irrespective of who his midfield partners were!!! In the end, Neil just started to prefer picking Smallbone over him!!! Your posts have just been a complete rewriting of history in my opinion but we'll leave it there I guess.......
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 15, 2024 14:17:46 GMT
Cundle took Bae’s position. SS had been playing him but still no goals, still no assists. Five games is a small number but it’s not surprising that he was dropped. His work rate is phenomenal, he wants to take his player on, he’s only 20 years old, but he’s done little to warrant his place in the team right now in front of goal. I personally think a spell out of the team will be good for him. He’s had a taste of what the league is like and now he step back and consider what he needs to do to make the spot his own. You jumped to conclusions, but as is often the case the wrong one. Bae was injured, that's all that it was, he was not dropped at all- Listen to what SS says, you might be wiser to what he does. Bae will be playing again when fit, sometimes together with Cundle, sometimes not. I’m sorry, which conclusion did I jump to? That Bae hasn’t scored for us yet? That’s not really a conclusion, it’s a statement of fact. Was my jumping to conclusion that Bae will now be under more of a challenge to contribute with his attacking output now that we have brought in a midfielder who was scoring and assisting at SS’s old team? That just doesn’t sound like a far reach to me.
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Post by jokker on Jan 15, 2024 14:28:45 GMT
You jumped to conclusions, but as is often the case the wrong one. Bae was injured, that's all that it was, he was not dropped at all- Listen to what SS says, you might be wiser to what he does. Bae will be playing again when fit, sometimes together with Cundle, sometimes not. I’m sorry, which conclusion did I jump to? "Five games is a small number but it’s not surprising that he was dropped." He was not dropped.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 15, 2024 14:32:32 GMT
I’m sorry, which conclusion did I jump to? "Five games is a small number but it’s not surprising that he was dropped." He was not dropped. Oh, well I am sorry Jokker. I’d be surprised if we don’t see a set up like this going forwards: Burger Cundle Baker Vidigal Mmaee/Campbell Bae I think that Bae is better centrally but we don’t have anyone that’s good on the left really and we do have two midfielders who can score in the middle. Have a nice day.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 15, 2024 14:40:42 GMT
Really not sure what the criticism is here. Our midfield has looked healthier since he has come back into it and he's back scoring goals.
I didn't think he would play again for us so full credit to him for working his way back and making himself (for now) undroppable.
As for Bae, the same thing, not sure why there is criticism. Yep he hasn't scored the goals yet, but I've seen people claim he hasn't got assists, which is just plain wrong. The potential with the lad is absolutely massive and it is healthy to have competition for places. Right now we will run with Cundle, Burger and Baker, with Bae, Thompson and Pearson playing when required to.
I think and actually hope we look into offloading Laurent, I just don't think he's cut out for where we want to get to. There is a reason why he has spent most of his career below the Championship and why he has never moved anywhere for a fee, always a free transfer.
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Post by terrorofturfmoor on Jan 15, 2024 14:56:18 GMT
I'm not saying he didn't do well in those two games, but in general, he started the season poorly, under O'Neill and then Neil... irrespective of who his midfield partners were!!! In the end, Neil just started to prefer picking Smallbone over him!!! Your posts have just been a complete rewriting of history in my opinion but we'll leave it there I guess....... I guess we should too!!! 👍🏼
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Post by thornestein on Jan 15, 2024 15:10:45 GMT
Nah, he may have played under Neil, I just don't recall, I'd lost interest.... But his decline started before Neil!!! I recall people's opinions on here about "what the hell has happened to him (under O'Neill) since his fantastic start for us last season???"..... Or words to that effect, people were crying out for him to be dropped!!! You can't casually dismiss the fact he played the first 23 games under AN whether you lost interest or not...................... he’s right though , his decline started just after signing that new contract which was under MoN i think 🤔
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 15, 2024 15:15:51 GMT
You can't casually dismiss the fact he played the first 23 games under AN whether you lost interest or not...................... he’s right though , his decline started just after signing that new contract which was under MoN i think 🤔 He signed his new contract in June 2022, MON was sacked 5 league games into the new season, Baker had arguably 2 bad games against Millwall (him and everyone else) and Sunderland. Not much of a sample that in terms of his decline, as I said earlier he was a missed penalty away from having 3 goals and an assist from his first 6 games of the season before AN's arrival.......
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Post by thornestein on Jan 15, 2024 16:46:51 GMT
he’s right though , his decline started just after signing that new contract which was under MoN i think 🤔 He signed his new contract in June 2022, MON was sacked 5 league games into the new season, Baker had arguably 2 bad games against Millwall (him and everyone else) and Sunderland. Not much of a sample that in terms of his decline, as I said earlier he was a missed penalty away from having 3 goals and an assist from his first 6 games of the season before AN's arrival....... i’ve always thought his goals masked some very poor performances, i hope he can be the player he should but he needs prove it first
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Post by jokker on Jan 15, 2024 17:45:32 GMT
He signed his new contract in June 2022, MON was sacked 5 league games into the new season, Baker had arguably 2 bad games against Millwall (him and everyone else) and Sunderland. Not much of a sample that in terms of his decline, as I said earlier he was a missed penalty away from having 3 goals and an assist from his first 6 games of the season before AN's arrival....... i’ve always thought his goals masked some very poor performances, i hope he can be the player he should but he needs prove it first He's already proved it to the heasd coach as SS says in a lengthy love letter interview. "Schumacher said: “I think me picking him in the last few games has sort of said that. I think he's the type of player as you say that I like in that system. He’s a midfield player that's comfortable on the ball, he competes really well and he's got a goal in him." www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-lewis-baker-rotherham-9033037So I don't know what else he's got to prove !
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Post by thornestein on Jan 15, 2024 17:48:20 GMT
i’ve always thought his goals masked some very poor performances, i hope he can be the player he should but he needs prove it first He's already proved it to the heasd coach as SS says in a lengthy love letter interview. "Schumacher said: “I think me picking him in the last few games has sort of said that. I think he's the type of player as you say that I like in that system. He’s a midfield player that's comfortable on the ball, he competes really well and he's got a goal in him." www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-lewis-baker-rotherham-9033037So I don't know what else he's got to prove ! a couple of ok performances isn’t proving anything at all , he could easily revert back to the shit player we’ve seen in the past , he’s got do it to the end of the season if he wants prove he’s a quality player , some fans are ridiculous, one fantastic goal and they’re player of the season 🤣😂🤣
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Post by jokker on Jan 15, 2024 17:51:56 GMT
He's already proved it to the heasd coach as SS says in a lengthy love letter interview. "Schumacher said: “I think me picking him in the last few games has sort of said that. I think he's the type of player as you say that I like in that system. He’s a midfield player that's comfortable on the ball, he competes really well and he's got a goal in him." www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-lewis-baker-rotherham-9033037So I don't know what else he's got to prove ! a couple of ok performances isn’t proving anything at all , he could easily revert back to the shit player we’ve seen in the past , he’s got do it to the end of the season if he wants prove he’s a quality player , some fans are ridiculous, one fantastic goal and they’re player of the season 🤣😂🤣 You're saying SS is that fan...? Because another qoute is, "Stoke City system 'designed for player like Lewis Baker' says Steven Schumacher"- You haven't even had time to read the article. Do that before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.
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