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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Dec 23, 2023 22:15:15 GMT
What's "some weird shit" is this bizarre obsession you've got with the bloke, it's borderline homoerotic. West Ham didn't catch up with him, that implies he was fired which he wasn't. He left them to become our Technical Director. He hasn't got John Coates in his back pocket, he's an employee of the club. If Coates gets to the point where he feels Martin isn't delivering then he'll get rid just like he did with previous managers, way before Martin was appointed. Having a joined up, consistent approach with every team at the club makes sense. That includes the Women's Team, which has gone Semi-Professional since Martin started to "poke around". That's a sign of progress and one that should be applauded as we try to capitalise on the recent success of the England Women's Team. If you're going to make grand statements like you've repeatedly done on Martin, at least do it based on the facts and present some evidence, rather than the usual made up bollocks. One thing I will say though is that if Schumacher is his appointment and he fails, the next window is a disaster and we do genuinely look like being relegated then he has to take responsibility and be binned. The reason I am interested in him is that he is running the operation. And it ain't going well. We may or may not stay up. It would be quite a stunt to spend as much as we have and relegate this team but we have a decent shot at it. You aren't alone in being interested in the Technical Director. The difference is that most people are capable of sticking to the facts, not spout any old nonsense like West Ham catching up with him. That's just a complete lie. It isn't going well but we've got his man in Schumacher now in charge and we've got a transfer window coming up. If Schumacher fails then he'll be 100% responsible. But I'm willing to show a little bit of patience.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Dec 23, 2023 22:16:37 GMT
This tricky Ricky bollocks does my head in… such school yard bull shit. What has he actually done wrong? We’ve overseen a change in recruitment approach. Brought in to modern times and view where each team independent and everything isn’t down to the manager. Give them all fucking tine He has overseen 1 The establishment of a culture of failure and apathy 2 The recruitment of a squad of players totally unsuited to this lesgue as evidenced by our league form trajectory and position 3 The destruction of our FFp headroom in the process of that failed recruitment. You’re talking shit as per usual. The culture of failure and apathy has been here since we got relegated. Not even Jesus could change that at the minute. The recruitment is not solely down to him and was done with Alex Neil and Dublin also. I don’t think the players we’ve signed are bad. They just needed a less archaic manager. We all said that we needed a new squad at the end of last season. And they did what we all asked them to do and given the transfer fees I don’t think that’s damaged our ffp head room at all.
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Post by stokiedan17 on Dec 23, 2023 22:18:06 GMT
Dublin amd Martin both Ned. To go asap before they do more damage in January I wish you’d go…
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Dec 23, 2023 22:19:34 GMT
Are we at the point now where maybe we realize that the players we signed in the summer are shit? I think the new head coach(manager) has an impossible task, owing to the dog shit recruitment we did last summer When you look into the detail of where they've come from, league's, etc. it could be said none have come from this level and all are a gamble but isn't that what we wanted, a model to unearth gems like other clubs have? Players seem to regress here. Of course we have a new coach who may develop them. 😬 I was feeling positive yesterday, now not so much, it was pretty awful. Second half was better but free kicks and corners were still J Arthur...
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 23, 2023 22:19:46 GMT
He has overseen 1 The establishment of a culture of failure and apathy 2 The recruitment of a squad of players totally unsuited to this lesgue as evidenced by our league form trajectory and position 3 The destruction of our FFp headroom in the process of that failed recruitment. You’re talking shit as per usual. The culture of failure and apathy has been here since we got relegated. Not even Jesus could change that at the minute. The recruitment is not solely down to him and was done with Alex Neil and Dublin also. I don’t think the players we’ve signed are bad. They just needed a less archaic manager. We all said that we needed a new squad at the end of last season. And they did what we all asked them to do and given the transfer fees I don’t think that’s damaged our ffp head room at all. Sorry but that’s nonsense many of us warned that the recruitment lacked structure , ignored the glaring weaknesses so obvious in the team last year and as early as August warning we had regressed . His inpdvt gad bern to oversea football matters that we poor and make them worse he’s a abject failure in role
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Dec 23, 2023 22:20:06 GMT
This tricky Ricky bollocks does my head in… such school yard bull shit. What has he actually done wrong? We’ve overseen a change in recruitment approach. Brought in to modern times and view where each team independent and everything isn’t down to the manager. Give them all fucking tine He has overseen 1 The establishment of a culture of failure and apathy 2 The recruitment of a squad of players totally unsuited to this lesgue as evidenced by our league form trajectory and position 3 The destruction of our FFp headroom in the process of that failed recruitment. 1) The culture of failure and apathy existed before him after several seasons of decline. It takes time to change that. 2) My understanding is that he didn't sign them as Neil (like any manager/head coach at the club) had the final say. But one thing we don't know is whether he played a part in the supposed commanding centre half not signing for us but we'll never know that. 3) Have you got any facts or figures to prove that our FFP headroom has been destroyed?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 23, 2023 22:26:28 GMT
He has overseen 1 The establishment of a culture of failure and apathy 2 The recruitment of a squad of players totally unsuited to this lesgue as evidenced by our league form trajectory and position 3 The destruction of our FFp headroom in the process of that failed recruitment. 1) The culture of failure and apathy existed before him after several seasons of decline. It takes time to change that. 2) My understanding is that he didn't sign them as Neil (like any manager/head coach at the club) had the final say. But one thing we don't know is whether he played a part in the supposed commanding centre half not signing for us but we'll never know that. 3) Have you got any facts or figures to prove that our FFP headroom has been destroyed? 1 culture is worse talk to anyone with real insight SS will help but Martin has set the tone 2 he’s has clearly stated he overseas recruitment the first public spat with Neil was this very issued when he said Neil who was moaning about squad gaps agreed all the players 3 it’s material it refused by fees I. Vidifal , Mmaee , juno , wages on leris and Wesley Johnson and Pearson none of which are recoverable and all but Wesley long term commitments
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Post by Gods on Dec 23, 2023 22:27:53 GMT
The reason I am interested in him is that he is running the operation. And it ain't going well. We may or may not stay up. It would be quite a stunt to spend as much as we have and relegate this team but we have a decent shot at it. You aren't alone in being interested in the Technical Director. The difference is that most people are capable of sticking to the facts, not spout any old nonsense like West Ham catching up with him. That's just a complete lie. It isn't going well but we've got his man in Schumacher now in charge and we've got a transfer window coming up. If Schumacher fails then he'll be 100% responsible. But I'm willing to show a little bit of patience. Fair enough, you sound like the voice of reason. But I can't lie, rational or not, I have a massive downer on R.Martin.
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Dec 23, 2023 22:31:02 GMT
1) The culture of failure and apathy existed before him after several seasons of decline. It takes time to change that. 2) My understanding is that he didn't sign them as Neil (like any manager/head coach at the club) had the final say. But one thing we don't know is whether he played a part in the supposed commanding centre half not signing for us but we'll never know that. 3) Have you got any facts or figures to prove that our FFP headroom has been destroyed? 1 culture is worse talk to anyone with real insight SS will help but Martin has set the tone 2 he’s has clearly stated he overseas recruitment the first public spat with Neil was this very issued when he said Neil who was moaning about squad gaps agreed all the players 3 it’s material it refused by fees I. Vidifal , Mmaee , juno , wages on leris and Wesley Johnson and Pearson none of which are recoverable and all but Wesley long term commitments 1) How do you know for a fact that the culture is worse? Who are these people with "real insight"? Name them, provide some quotes and evidence. I'm more than willing to hold my hands up and apologise if you can do that. 2) I think I've had too many Christmas margaritas because that sentence is absolutely incoherent. 3) A simple answer of "No, I don't have the facts or figures" would've been easier.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 23, 2023 22:35:29 GMT
1 culture is worse talk to anyone with real insight SS will help but Martin has set the tone 2 he’s has clearly stated he overseas recruitment the first public spat with Neil was this very issued when he said Neil who was moaning about squad gaps agreed all the players 3 it’s material it refused by fees I. Vidifal , Mmaee , juno , wages on leris and Wesley Johnson and Pearson none of which are recoverable and all but Wesley long term commitments 1) How do you know for a fact that the culture is worse? Who are these people with "real insight"? Name them, provide some quotes and evidence. I'm more than willing to hold my hands up and apologise if you can do that. 2) I think I've had too many Christmas margaritas because that sentence is absolutely incoherent. 3) A simple answer of "No, I don't have the facts or figures" would've been easier. I’m sorry but your just been hoodwinked but it’s up to you , clesrky im not going to identify specific quotes there is no need , Martin had bern clearly positioned as overseeing all football matters and Simon king all.coomercial . Every element of football is an unmitigated disaster and trajectory takes us to league one if you think different fair enough but their is no evidence to su-pirt the fact Martin is anything but an abject failure
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Dec 23, 2023 22:41:57 GMT
1) How do you know for a fact that the culture is worse? Who are these people with "real insight"? Name them, provide some quotes and evidence. I'm more than willing to hold my hands up and apologise if you can do that. 2) I think I've had too many Christmas margaritas because that sentence is absolutely incoherent. 3) A simple answer of "No, I don't have the facts or figures" would've been easier. I’m sorry but your just been hoodwinked but it’s up to you , clesrky im not going to identify specific quotes there is no need , Martin had bern clearly positioned as overseeing all football matters and Simon king all.coomercial . Every element of football is an unmitigated disaster and trajectory takes us to league one if you think different fair enough but their is no evidence to su-pirt the fact Martin is anything but an abject failure A simple "No, I haven't got any proof or can't name the people with real insight" (or a benji version of that) would've sufficed but never mind, you crack on making grand, incoherent statements without providing any evidence or quotes to back them up.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Dec 23, 2023 22:58:54 GMT
I’m sorry but your just been hoodwinked but it’s up to you , clesrky im not going to identify specific quotes there is no need , Martin had bern clearly positioned as overseeing all football matters and Simon king all.coomercial . Every element of football is an unmitigated disaster and trajectory takes us to league one if you think different fair enough but their is no evidence to su-pirt the fact Martin is anything but an abject failure A simple "No, I haven't got any proof or can't name the people with real insight" (or a benji version of that) would've sufficed but never mind, you crack on making grand, incoherent statements without providing any evidence or quotes to back them up. Alteratively the absolute refusal to see what’s staring you in the face approach your taking .
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Post by SuperRickyFuller on Dec 23, 2023 23:01:43 GMT
A simple "No, I haven't got any proof or can't name the people with real insight" (or a benji version of that) would've sufficed but never mind, you crack on making grand, incoherent statements without providing any evidence or quotes to back them up. Alteratively the absolute refusal to see what’s staring you in the face approach your taking . You've got some nerve to talk about "absolute refusal" when you've refused to answer a single question I've asked you. I can only assume it's because you can't answer them, as per usual.
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Post by redwhitesingfight on Dec 24, 2023 0:24:44 GMT
Whoever is responsible for shortlisting some of our players shouldn’t be anywhere near recruitment in football. Steven Schumacher needs to be in control of scouting, shortlisting ,signing and contracts. Otherwise he is going to fail like the rest of the managers.
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Post by thepottypotter on Dec 24, 2023 0:28:10 GMT
Whoever is responsible for shortlisting some of our players shouldn’t be anywhere near recruitment in football. Steven Schumacher needs to be in control of scouting, shortlisting ,signing and contracts. Otherwise he is going to fail like the rest of the managers. As Tricky Ricky said, recruitment is a a 'collaborative effort between the technical director (him), SS and the recruitment team (Jared)' God help SS as he's the only one who knows what he is doing, and he's only 1 in 3 ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif)
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Post by redwhitesingfight on Dec 24, 2023 0:30:42 GMT
Whoever is responsible for shortlisting some of our players shouldn’t be anywhere near recruitment in football. Steven Schumacher needs to be in control of scouting, shortlisting ,signing and contracts. Otherwise he is going to fail like the rest of the managers. As Tricky Ricky said, recruitment is a a 'collaborative effort between the technical director (him), SS and the recruitment team (Jared)' God help SS as he's the only one who knows what he is doing, and he's only 1 in 3 ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/800541/images/4tzqvp1fxEemag_TAXLJ.gif) Agree. This is where the friction is and why it hasn’t worked. Steven could do with his own team. Early days but SS has to be strong.
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Post by kustokie on Dec 24, 2023 1:33:52 GMT
He has overseen 1 The establishment of a culture of failure and apathy 2 The recruitment of a squad of players totally unsuited to this lesgue as evidenced by our league form trajectory and position 3 The destruction of our FFp headroom in the process of that failed recruitment. You’re talking shit as per usual. The culture of failure and apathy has been here since we got relegated. Not even Jesus could change that at the minute. The recruitment is not solely down to him and was done with Alex Neil and Dublin also. I don’t think the players we’ve signed are bad. They just needed a less archaic manager. We all said that we needed a new squad at the end of last season. And they did what we all asked them to do and given the transfer fees I don’t think that’s damaged our ffp head room at all. Actually he’s 100% correct
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Post by Rick Grimes on Dec 24, 2023 2:58:46 GMT
The issue is that the summer recruitment has been imbalanced which is understandable given the size of the rebuild but it’s something we’ve got to get right going forward.
When it comes to Leris it feels like we were after a like for like replacement but the issue is that Leris has even less footballing ability than Browny did.
Having to resort to Thompson and Gooch at LB shows how badly we messed that up.
Only having 3 senior CB’s at the end of the window was madness. McNally is fine but needs an experienced pro alongside him, I don’t rate Wilmot or Rose.
Bonham as back up and being No 1 when Travers went back is straight up bullshit.
There’s more I could discuss but given the glaring areas identified above I’m bemused why we spent the amount we did on Jojic given he’s no where near first team ready.
One of the worst parts though is that players like Pearson, Johnson etc have played under Neil before but failed to meet expectations. When Pearson played against us he seemed like a wily operator not the kick anything that moves terrible footballer that we’ve seen this season.
I like and admire Gooch’s effort but if you’ve got any designs of being promoted you simply can’t have him in the first team at full back.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 9:26:15 GMT
Whoever is responsible for shortlisting some of our players shouldn’t be anywhere near recruitment in football. Steven Schumacher needs to be in control of scouting, shortlisting ,signing and contracts. Otherwise he is going to fail like the rest of the managers. No thanks. Let SS do what SS has been doing and shown himself to be competent at. He has no record of running a club in the manner you describe.
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Post by lordb on Dec 24, 2023 9:31:58 GMT
Whoever is responsible for shortlisting some of our players shouldn’t be anywhere near recruitment in football. Steven Schumacher needs to be in control of scouting, shortlisting ,signing and contracts. Otherwise he is going to fail like the rest of the managers. No thanks. Let SS do what SS has been doing and shown himself to be competent at. He has no record of running a club in the manner you describe. So he needs to work in tandem with a Technical Director who is good at all the other stuff
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 9:45:40 GMT
No thanks. Let SS do what SS has been doing and shown himself to be competent at. He has no record of running a club in the manner you describe. So he needs to work in tandem with a Technical Director who is good at all the other stuff I’ve no idea what RM background was pre Norwich, he certainly wouldn’t have been on any list of names I’d have suggested for the role but in truth I’ve very little idea whether he’s good at his job. I detest the god manager model so I’d rather have him than not have the more modern structure. If he was to be replaced I wouldn’t bat an eyelid unless SS had an influence on his replacement. I’m very comfortable with the structure and perfectly happy for those in possession of the roles to get more time and for the recruitment model minus managers old lags to be continued. I’d go as far as to go full on Sunderland and only recruit players from a certain profile. The old model had plenty of opportunities to fail no idea why we’d bin this one off so soon to return to something that’s failed so regularly.
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Post by cousindupree on Dec 24, 2023 11:42:20 GMT
The good news is of course we have moved away from the Manager overseeing everything finally with a Tech Director and head of recruitment. Lets be honest Martin's role is possibly the most important in the club. As yet I am not convinced he is the right man, remembe he was appointed by Neil as they worked together at Norwich. They were both fired after relegation the reason was given that their recruitment was poor. After that he headed up West Ham's academy, hardly a role that prepares him for the big job at Stoke. He should be under pressure if the next two windows are not an improvemnet on the last one. I have said for years now that we need a DOF/Tech Director with European experience and reach to work those contacts. This of course should have been done when we were flying in the Prem and could have recruited the best in Europe, sadly we didnt Happy to give RM a fair go at the job, but to me he sounds a bit lightweight for such a crucial role. Coates should already be planning a succesor.
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Post by biddulphchav on Dec 24, 2023 12:40:37 GMT
The good news is of course we have moved away from the Manager overseeing everything finally with a Tech Director and head of recruitment. Lets be honest Martin's role is possibly the most important in the club. As yet I am not convinced he is the right man, remembe he was appointed by Neil as they worked together at Norwich. They were both fired after relegation the reason was given that their recruitment was poor. After that he headed up West Ham's academy, hardly a role that prepares him for the big job at Stoke. He should be under pressure if the next two windows are not an improvemnet on the last one. I have said for years now that we need a DOF/Tech Director with European experience and reach to work those contacts. This of course should have been done when we were flying in the Prem and could have recruited the best in Europe, sadly we didnt Happy to give RM a fair go at the job, but to me he sounds a bit lightweight for such a crucial role. Coates should already be planning a succesor. Finally, somebody with a sense of balance and logic!! I agree with what you’ve said and i really don’t understand this ‘Tricky Ricky’ bs that people are coming out with. The recruitment hasn’t been top notch but it was a major overhaul and nobody has a 100% hit rate. The manager has taken the fall for that and his other failings and that’s how this model works. People advocating for Martin and Dublin to get the chop don’t seem to understand that the god manager structure is part of the reason we got to where we got to after relegation. Martin’s credentials may not look fantastic, and the fact that the manager had a hand in appointing him certainly raised my eyebrows (to be fair I found it ludicrous), but he’s here now and needs to be given the opportunity to do his job.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 12:53:57 GMT
The good news is of course we have moved away from the Manager overseeing everything finally with a Tech Director and head of recruitment. Lets be honest Martin's role is possibly the most important in the club. As yet I am not convinced he is the right man, remembe he was appointed by Neil as they worked together at Norwich. They were both fired after relegation the reason was given that their recruitment was poor. After that he headed up West Ham's academy, hardly a role that prepares him for the big job at Stoke. He should be under pressure if the next two windows are not an improvemnet on the last one. I have said for years now that we need a DOF/Tech Director with European experience and reach to work those contacts. This of course should have been done when we were flying in the Prem and could have recruited the best in Europe, sadly we didnt Happy to give RM a fair go at the job, but to me he sounds a bit lightweight for such a crucial role. Coates should already be planning a succesor. Not sure if we need someone from Europe. The big issue we have now is that there’s too many of the same type of player in the team. You don’t need someone from Europe to tell you that. Just go down the road to Peterborough and buy out their set up.
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Post by DC1863 on Dec 24, 2023 13:01:27 GMT
You’re talking shit as per usual. The culture of failure and apathy has been here since we got relegated. Not even Jesus could change that at the minute. The recruitment is not solely down to him and was done with Alex Neil and Dublin also. I don’t think the players we’ve signed are bad. They just needed a less archaic manager. We all said that we needed a new squad at the end of last season. And they did what we all asked them to do and given the transfer fees I don’t think that’s damaged our ffp head room at all. Actually he’s 100% correct In his and your opinion, I agree with Dan's opinion that Benj is chatting uneducated shite.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 13:11:54 GMT
The good news is of course we have moved away from the Manager overseeing everything finally with a Tech Director and head of recruitment. Lets be honest Martin's role is possibly the most important in the club. As yet I am not convinced he is the right man, remembe he was appointed by Neil as they worked together at Norwich. They were both fired after relegation the reason was given that their recruitment was poor. After that he headed up West Ham's academy, hardly a role that prepares him for the big job at Stoke. He should be under pressure if the next two windows are not an improvemnet on the last one. I have said for years now that we need a DOF/Tech Director with European experience and reach to work those contacts. This of course should have been done when we were flying in the Prem and could have recruited the best in Europe, sadly we didnt Happy to give RM a fair go at the job, but to me he sounds a bit lightweight for such a crucial role. Coates should already be planning a succesor. Not sure if we need someone from Europe. The big issue we have now is that there’s too many of the same type of player in the team. You don’t need someone from Europe to tell you that. Just go down the road to Peterborough and buy out their set up. Hmm not sure about that. Why would you want to buy their entire set up it's failed every single time it's had an opportunity at this level. They have a recruitment model that's worked well and unearthed players they've gone on to profit from so has our current head of recruitment at Sheff Utd at this level. Can't really see why what they have would be considered preferable to what we have unless we're planning for league One. I know you could use that logic to rubbish the coaching team we've just bought in but they did seem to be making a better fist of it at this level than Peterboro normally do.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 13:14:32 GMT
Actually he’s 100% correct In his and your opinion, I agree with Dan's opinion that Benj is chatting uneducated shite. Benji just gets a figure/s of hate and lets his poison pour out without even knowing what they do or whether they do it well or not.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2023 13:24:56 GMT
Not sure if we need someone from Europe. The big issue we have now is that there’s too many of the same type of player in the team. You don’t need someone from Europe to tell you that. Just go down the road to Peterborough and buy out their set up. Hmm not sure about that. Why would you want to buy their entire set up it's failed every single time it's had an opportunity at this level. They have a recruitment model that's worked well and unearthed players they've gone on to profit from so has our current head of recruitment at Sheff Utd at this level. Can't really see why what they have would be considered preferable to what we have unless we're planning for league One. I know you could use that logic to rubbish the coaching team we've just bought in but they did seem to be making a better fist of it at this level than Peterboro normally do. “Hmm not sure about that. Why would you want to buy their entire set up it's failed every single time it's had an opportunity at this level” Fair question. I think that they would succeed at this level at a club bigger than them, with access to more resources and funding. I don’t think it’s likely that they could turn into a Brighton, for example, but few can. Peterborough have had many years of success at unearthing decent talent. I think that their continued success was worth trying to make ours.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 24, 2023 13:39:18 GMT
Hmm not sure about that. Why would you want to buy their entire set up it's failed every single time it's had an opportunity at this level. They have a recruitment model that's worked well and unearthed players they've gone on to profit from so has our current head of recruitment at Sheff Utd at this level. Can't really see why what they have would be considered preferable to what we have unless we're planning for league One. I know you could use that logic to rubbish the coaching team we've just bought in but they did seem to be making a better fist of it at this level than Peterboro normally do. “Hmm not sure about that. Why would you want to buy their entire set up it's failed every single time it's had an opportunity at this level” Fair question. I think that they would succeed at this level at a club bigger than them, with access to more resources and funding. I don’t think it’s likely that they could turn into a Brighton, for example, but few can. Peterborough have had many years of success at unearthing decent talent. I think that their continued success was worth trying to make ours. In a completely different competitive environment I could watch the worst performer and see something he was doing that I thought I might be able to use. Can't say I ever thought of just trying to do everything exactly just like him. Pretty sure that wouldn't have been a recipe for success.
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Post by lordb on Dec 24, 2023 13:50:40 GMT
So he needs to work in tandem with a Technical Director who is good at all the other stuff I’ve no idea what RM background was pre Norwich, he certainly wouldn’t have been on any list of names I’d have suggested for the role but in truth I’ve very little idea whether he’s good at his job. I detest the god manager model so I’d rather have him than not have the more modern structure. If he was to be replaced I wouldn’t bat an eyelid unless SS had an influence on his replacement. I’m very comfortable with the structure and perfectly happy for those in possession of the roles to get more time and for the recruitment model minus managers old lags to be continued. I’d go as far as to go full on Sunderland and only recruit players from a certain profile. The old model had plenty of opportunities to fail no idea why we’d bin this one off so soon to return to something that’s failed so regularly. Model means fuck all if the individual is not up to the job I'm extremely uncomfortable with this no mark apparently running our club
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