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Post by Chewbacca the Wookie on Jul 18, 2024 22:06:26 GMT
Sounds about right though? If we sold Bae for 17 million we could buy Cameron Archer and still have change for a Bae Mark II Good for us for giving a more realistic figure. However much I want him to stay if we met in the middle and it meant us getting Cundle, a decent striker and a replacement for Bae then it’d be a good deal. |
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Post by Marc01 on Jul 18, 2024 22:43:05 GMT
Fair. I was definitely thinking about the two full backs., but also that they didn’t spend any real money, just kept turning profit (small) on their transfer windows, until the one where they went up when they incurred a loss. It’s good for us to sell players, even if it’s lower than we want (so long as we get future fees, and most importantly sign well again). It’s about selling players at the right time and right price. In the absence of a trigger clause there’s simply no sense in Stoke selling a player of Bae’s ability and potential, with 3 years left on his contract, for a price similar to the deal for the purchase of a 29 year old James McClean, in 2018 (which is not dissimilar to Feyenoord fee territory). Your earlier comments about Stoke “missing the window” regarding parachute clubs has relevance to your example of Norwich, who’ve won promotion twice since Stoke were relegated. In the 13 seasons since 2011/12, they’ve had 6 seasons (4 promotions) of full PL income and 7 of parachute payments. That’s given them extra leeway to attract players and also drive a higher selling price. Their highest six sales: The top one being a plus £30 million profit on Buendia after being promoted in 2021. Another 2 being during that promotion season. They were obviously very well set as a squad already despite those sales. (Stoke simply won’t get well set by virtually giving key assets away). Maddison sold during their 18/19 promotion. The remaining 2 being sold after their 15/16 PL relegation under Lambert. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/norwich-city/rekordabgaenge/verein/1123Norwich are not in the same category of building up in an innovative way from a smaller club from the lower tiers like Brentford have and, despite that PL income, Norwich failed miserably upon their last 3 promotions (unlike Brentford). It requires much more than this celebrated “model” of buying low and selling big to secure promotion and there’s so many factors; not least good management and committed players buying into a club ethos. Luton’s success in the last 10 years and also Brighton’s promotion being different to Brentford’s. It’s worthy of note that 20 of Brighton’s top 25 sales have come during their 7 year PL stint. Two of the remaining 5 sales were 20 years ago (inc Zamora) and the other 3 sales about 10 years ago (combined fees £13m). www.transfermarkt.co.uk/brighton-amp-hove-albion/rekordabgaenge/verein/1237I doubt any club have done what Brentford have since Stoke’s relegation, or before; it was a model they first adopted 12 years ago. It would be a real surprise if Stoke become anything like the new Brentford. |
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Post by baconburger on Jul 19, 2024 13:11:44 GMT
If we sold Bae for 17 million we could buy Cameron Archer and still have change for a Bae Mark II Good for us for giving a more realistic figure. However much I want him to stay if we met in the middle and it meant us getting Cundle, a decent striker and a replacement for Bae then it’d be a good deal. Yeah I can’t see why we’ve gone in at that sort of figure if we’re not keen to negotiate. I’d have thought we’d have quoted them £20M and hope they fuck off if we weren’t keen to do the business at all. |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 19, 2024 14:26:39 GMT
Fair. I was definitely thinking about the two full backs., but also that they didn’t spend any real money, just kept turning profit (small) on their transfer windows, until the one where they went up when they incurred a loss. It’s good for us to sell players, even if it’s lower than we want (so long as we get future fees, and most importantly sign well again). It’s about selling players at the right time and right price. In the absence of a trigger clause there’s simply no sense in Stoke selling a player of Bae’s ability and potential, with 3 years left on his contract, for a price similar to the deal for the purchase of a 29 year old James McClean, in 2018 (which is not dissimilar to Feyenoord fee territory). Your earlier comments about Stoke “missing the window” regarding parachute clubs has relevance to your example of Norwich, who’ve won promotion twice since Stoke were relegated. In the 13 seasons since 2011/12, they’ve had 6 seasons (4 promotions) of full PL income and 7 of parachute payments. That’s given them extra leeway to attract players and also drive a higher selling price. Their highest six sales: The top one being a plus £30 million profit on Buendia after being promoted in 2021. Another 2 being during that promotion season. They were obviously very well set as a squad already despite those sales. (Stoke simply won’t get well set by virtually giving key assets away). Maddison sold during their 18/19 promotion. The remaining 2 being sold after their 15/16 PL relegation under Lambert. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/norwich-city/rekordabgaenge/verein/1123Norwich are not in the same category of building up in an innovative way from a smaller club from the lower tiers like Brentford have and, despite that PL income, Norwich failed miserably upon their last 3 promotions (unlike Brentford). It requires much more than this celebrated “model” of buying low and selling big to secure promotion and there’s so many factors; not least good management and committed players buying into a club ethos. Luton’s success in the last 10 years and also Brighton’s promotion being different to Brentford’s. It’s worthy of note that 20 of Brighton’s top 25 sales have come during their 7 year PL stint. Two of the remaining 5 sales were 20 years ago (inc Zamora) and the other 3 sales about 10 years ago (combined fees £13m). www.transfermarkt.co.uk/brighton-amp-hove-albion/rekordabgaenge/verein/1237I doubt any club have done what Brentford have since Stoke’s relegation, or before; it was a model they first adopted 12 years ago. It would be a real surprise if Stoke become anything like the new Brentford. Is there a Brentford model? They make great store of being data driven but are they that different to any other club? They have had 3 seasons in the PL and would have been in trouble last season if the 3 promoted teams hadn't been so poorly set up. I have a share of a season ticket at Brentford, I live a short walk from the ground, and they have a top Championship side little more, certainly most games the football is average at best. They also don't have an academy so don't bring local young players through, something I suspect most supporters would be uncomfortable with. Far from clear they can progress much further. I just don't see the case for emulating them. Wolves, Southampton and others seem at least as applicable to our situation |
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Post by Marc01 on Jul 19, 2024 14:51:58 GMT
It’s about selling players at the right time and right price. In the absence of a trigger clause there’s simply no sense in Stoke selling a player of Bae’s ability and potential, with 3 years left on his contract, for a price similar to the deal for the purchase of a 29 year old James McClean, in 2018 (which is not dissimilar to Feyenoord fee territory). Your earlier comments about Stoke “missing the window” regarding parachute clubs has relevance to your example of Norwich, who’ve won promotion twice since Stoke were relegated. In the 13 seasons since 2011/12, they’ve had 6 seasons (4 promotions) of full PL income and 7 of parachute payments. That’s given them extra leeway to attract players and also drive a higher selling price. Their highest six sales: The top one being a plus £30 million profit on Buendia after being promoted in 2021. Another 2 being during that promotion season. They were obviously very well set as a squad already despite those sales. (Stoke simply won’t get well set by virtually giving key assets away). Maddison sold during their 18/19 promotion. The remaining 2 being sold after their 15/16 PL relegation under Lambert. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/norwich-city/rekordabgaenge/verein/1123Norwich are not in the same category of building up in an innovative way from a smaller club from the lower tiers like Brentford have and, despite that PL income, Norwich failed miserably upon their last 3 promotions (unlike Brentford). It requires much more than this celebrated “model” of buying low and selling big to secure promotion and there’s so many factors; not least good management and committed players buying into a club ethos. Luton’s success in the last 10 years and also Brighton’s promotion being different to Brentford’s. It’s worthy of note that 20 of Brighton’s top 25 sales have come during their 7 year PL stint. Two of the remaining 5 sales were 20 years ago (inc Zamora) and the other 3 sales about 10 years ago (combined fees £13m). www.transfermarkt.co.uk/brighton-amp-hove-albion/rekordabgaenge/verein/1237I doubt any club have done what Brentford have since Stoke’s relegation, or before; it was a model they first adopted 12 years ago. It would be a real surprise if Stoke become anything like the new Brentford. Is there a Brentford model? They make great store of being data driven but are they that different to any other club? They have had 3 seasons in the PL and would have been in trouble last season if the 3 promoted teams hadn't been so poorly set up. I have a share of a season ticket at Brentford, I live a short walk from the ground, and they have a top Championship side little more, certainly most games the football is average at best. They also don't have an academy so don't bring local young players through, something I suspect most supporters would be uncomfortable with. Far from clear they can progress much further. I just don't see the case for emulating them. Wolves, Southampton and others seem at least as applicable to our situation Some info on their academy, contrast to Stoke who have had Cat 1 since at least 2012: trainingground.guru/articles/brentford-academy-promoted-to-category-two-statusamp.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/brentford-ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcasts |
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Post by Kingswaystokie on Jul 19, 2024 14:56:46 GMT
If we sold Bae for 17 million we could buy Cameron Archer and still have change for a Bae Mark II Good for us for giving a more realistic figure. However much I want him to stay if we met in the middle and it meant us getting Cundle, a decent striker and a replacement for Bae then it’d be a good deal. Haven't we got a replacement in a quality young player named Sidibe ? |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Jul 19, 2024 15:27:20 GMT
Just for context, last August Alex Scott at nearly 20 y/o went to Bournemouth for roughly £19.8M, having come off the back of scoring only 2 goals and 5 assists, with under 2 years left on his contract. Bae has the same stats as Scott, has an extra year left on his deal, and in my opinion is the better player. Champions League courter or not, it is absolute madness and dereliction of duty to even consider letting him go for less than £20M in the current market. If he has a release clause, fair enough. If not, we need to stand our ground. Either they pay up his value or offer us a player in exchange. I doubt Bae is the kind of person to kick up a stink, but if he really wants to go, make him hand in a transfer request first so he foregoes his 'loyalty' bonus. Bae isn’t HG though. So you can take 25% off straight away. If he isn’t pregnant it must be mercury then? |
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jul 19, 2024 15:42:14 GMT
Is there a Brentford model? They make great store of being data driven but are they that different to any other club? They have had 3 seasons in the PL and would have been in trouble last season if the 3 promoted teams hadn't been so poorly set up. I have a share of a season ticket at Brentford, I live a short walk from the ground, and they have a top Championship side little more, certainly most games the football is average at best. They also don't have an academy so don't bring local young players through, something I suspect most supporters would be uncomfortable with. Far from clear they can progress much further. I just don't see the case for emulating them. Wolves, Southampton and others seem at least as applicable to our situation Some info on their academy, contrast to Stoke who have had Cat 1 since at least 2012: trainingground.guru/articles/brentford-academy-promoted-to-category-two-statusamp.theguardian.com/football/2017/apr/05/brentford-ditched-their-academy-premier-league-outcastsI hadn't clocked with the Category 2 news meant I thought it related to their B team model. Looks as though the Brentford model is dead and they are back to following the same path as everyone else. And the owner is trying to sell at least a share of the club. Like Brighton it ultimately comes down to how much money owners are willing to put in |
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Post by enuntio on Jul 19, 2024 15:50:09 GMT
If he is dishonorable then he will go.
If he is as good as some are expecting him to be, Stoke City included then we should keep him for a year.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2024 15:52:08 GMT
If he is dishonorable then he will go. If he is as good as some are expecting him to be, Stoke City included then we should keep him for a year. Dishonorable for pursuing better opportunities when offered them? 😂 Sure. |
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Post by lordb on Jul 19, 2024 16:06:50 GMT
Good for us for giving a more realistic figure. However much I want him to stay if we met in the middle and it meant us getting Cundle, a decent striker and a replacement for Bae then it’d be a good deal. Haven't we got a replacement in a quality young player named Sidibe ? no, Bae & Sol play in different parts of the pitch, completely different players & roles Sol should be the replacement for Laurent If a rejuvenated Baker is going to be used in a more attacking central role (as the friendlies so far invocate, appreciate its early days) & we sign Cundle then Bae would presumably (if not sold) be seen as the left sided attacker > ideally we would sign another left sided players to compete & cover (Duncan Maguire for £2.6m please) If we didn't then we'd have to live with Gooch & Videgal covering that left side which - imo - is no disaster nut hey there's another 6 weeks+ of the window so fuck knows |
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Post by baconburger on Jul 19, 2024 16:44:06 GMT
Haven't we got a replacement in a quality young player named Sidibe ? no, Bae & Sol play in different parts of the pitch, completely different players & roles Sol should be the replacement for Laurent If a rejuvenated Baker is going to be used in a more attacking central role (as the friendlies so far invocate, appreciate its early days) & we sign Cundle then Bae would presumably (if not sold) be seen as the left sided attacker > ideally we would sign another left sided players to compete & cover (Duncan Maguire for £2.6m please) If we didn't then we'd have to live with Gooch & Videgal covering that left side which - imo - is no disaster nut hey there's another 6 weeks+ of the window so fuck knows They don’t at all. Junho has played quite a bit as a wide left forward but if he moved inside he’d be competing for a place as an AM/No8. That’s exactly the same role in Schu’s preferred set up as Laurent was attempting to play. His preferred model does not deploy 3 types of midfielder ie DM , box to box, AM/No10. It requires the 2 No8’s to be very intensive/high tempo and produce end product. If Sol is competing for a deeper lying role there’s a long queue with a very good player at the head of it in Burger. |
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Jul 19, 2024 17:06:39 GMT
If he is dishonorable then he will go. If he is as good as some are expecting him to be, Stoke City included then we should keep him for a year. Rubbish 🤣 he isn't dishonorable at all if he goes. No player is dishonorable for furthering their career. Simple as that |
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Post by yellowsnowman on Jul 19, 2024 18:24:31 GMT
If he is dishonorable then he will go. If he is as good as some are expecting him to be, Stoke City included then we should keep him for a year. Rubbish 🤣 he isn't dishonorable at all if he goes. No player is dishonorable for furthering their career. Simple as that Rubbish he signed a 4 year deal. We hold all the cards. Money has to be right or he stays and he can further his carry then. Simple. |
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Post by lordb on Jul 19, 2024 18:26:10 GMT
no, Bae & Sol play in different parts of the pitch, completely different players & roles Sol should be the replacement for Laurent If a rejuvenated Baker is going to be used in a more attacking central role (as the friendlies so far invocate, appreciate its early days) & we sign Cundle then Bae would presumably (if not sold) be seen as the left sided attacker > ideally we would sign another left sided players to compete & cover (Duncan Maguire for £2.6m please) If we didn't then we'd have to live with Gooch & Videgal covering that left side which - imo - is no disaster nut hey there's another 6 weeks+ of the window so fuck knows They don’t at all. Junho has played quite a bit as a wide left forward but if he moved inside he’d be competing for a place as an AM/No8. That’s exactly the same role in Schu’s preferred set up as Laurent was attempting to play. His preferred model does not deploy 3 types of midfielder ie DM , box to box, AM/No10. It requires the 2 No8’s to be very intensive/high tempo and produce end product. If Sol is competing for a deeper lying role there’s a long queue with a very good player at the head of it in Burger. Don’t think he's going to be move inside, nothing to suggest that atm |
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Post by bertiestan on Jul 19, 2024 18:43:06 GMT
We shouldn’t even entertain selling him…unless he hands in a transfer request (which I don’t think he’ll do) we should aim to build this years squad around him, he’s been here a year that’s it🤷♂️ He’s got to leave us with that forever moment which I’m sure he’ll do….beating 4 defenders before rounding the keeper in front of the boothen👏🏻…he’s definitely here short term and we should enjoy him while he’s here but to allow him to leave now would be criminal, especially if we have aspirations for the prem…the rate he’s developing it’s 25-30 mil euros next summer 🤷♂️🔴⚪️
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Jul 19, 2024 19:14:12 GMT
Rubbish 🤣 he isn't dishonorable at all if he goes. No player is dishonorable for furthering their career. Simple as that Rubbish he signed a 4 year deal. We hold all the cards. Money has to be right or he stays and he can further his carry then. Simple. I swear with every post you make you show you have no idea works and has worked for many many years. People have pulled you up on this previously and you still insist on doing it 🤣. Bae wanting to play CL football and being enticed by a club offering that is in no way dishonorable. Was Bellingham dishonorable for moving fron Brum to Dortmund? No. It is a career step. I have no idea why you seem to have such trouble understanding these simple things |
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Post by baconburger on Jul 19, 2024 20:00:38 GMT
They don’t at all. Junho has played quite a bit as a wide left forward but if he moved inside he’d be competing for a place as an AM/No8. That’s exactly the same role in Schu’s preferred set up as Laurent was attempting to play. His preferred model does not deploy 3 types of midfielder ie DM , box to box, AM/No10. It requires the 2 No8’s to be very intensive/high tempo and produce end product. If Sol is competing for a deeper lying role there’s a long queue with a very good player at the head of it in Burger. Don’t think he's going to be move inside, nothing to suggest that atm A lack of decent AM’s at the club would be one reason to move him inside if you were to sign a loan forward who can play across the line who could also play centrally as an alternative to the CF I hope we sign. The HC wants to play two and we don’t even have one who can play with the intensity of Cundle without moving Junho inside. I certainly wouldn’t be willing to place too many eggs in the Baker basket. |
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Post by yellowsnowman on Jul 19, 2024 20:03:26 GMT
Rubbish he signed a 4 year deal. We hold all the cards. Money has to be right or he stays and he can further his carry then. Simple. I swear with every post you make you show you have no idea works and has worked for many many years. People have pulled you up on this previously and you still insist on doing it 🤣. Bae wanting to play CL football and being enticed by a club offering that is in no way dishonorable. Was Bellingham dishonorable for moving fron Brum to Dortmund? No. It is a career step. I have no idea why you seem to have such trouble understanding these simple things Im fine if the dollars right he can get a CL move next year, what bit dont you get? Just dnt want him to leave after 1 year. Quite simple really. His move then would be CL so i dnt get it yeah. Put people pulling me up.... quieten down. Haha. |
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Post by baconburger on Jul 19, 2024 20:15:26 GMT
I swear with every post you make you show you have no idea works and has worked for many many years. People have pulled you up on this previously and you still insist on doing it 🤣. Bae wanting to play CL football and being enticed by a club offering that is in no way dishonorable. Was Bellingham dishonorable for moving fron Brum to Dortmund? No. It is a career step. I have no idea why you seem to have such trouble understanding these simple things Im fine if the dollars right he can get a CL move next year, what bit dont you get? Just dnt want him to leave after 1 year. Quite simple really. His move then would be CL so i dnt get it yeah. Put people pulling me up.... quiten down. Haha. Just seems to cause a lot less friction with the player if you don’t rule out them making the next step on their journey when the opportunity presents itself. Don’t know why exactly but demanding an inflated fee seems to cause a lot less friction than saying no not now you’re staying another year minimum. Given the reported offer and what we’ve quoted I’d say we’re interested in doing business. Our demand isn’t outlandish enough that we’re just trying to make them go away. |
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Jul 19, 2024 20:32:40 GMT
I swear with every post you make you show you have no idea works and has worked for many many years. People have pulled you up on this previously and you still insist on doing it 🤣. Bae wanting to play CL football and being enticed by a club offering that is in no way dishonorable. Was Bellingham dishonorable for moving fron Brum to Dortmund? No. It is a career step. I have no idea why you seem to have such trouble understanding these simple things Im fine if the dollars right he can get a CL move next year, what bit dont you get? Just dnt want him to leave after 1 year. Quite simple really. His move then would be CL so i dnt get it yeah. Put people pulling me up.... quieten down. Haha. I don't want him leave either. Nobody does. But if a CL club comes in with a fair price then he will want to go to advance his career which is understandable and the right thing to do That is in no way "dishonorable". And that is the point here. |
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Post by yellowsnowman on Jul 19, 2024 20:38:51 GMT
Im on about him furthering his career etc, if he goes he goes i wouldnt call him dishonourable either i just think better move in one year thats all. And also 9million at fist quoted was never enough even if he was begging to leave.
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Post by baconburger on Jul 19, 2024 20:43:11 GMT
Im fine if the dollars right he can get a CL move next year, what bit dont you get? Just dnt want him to leave after 1 year. Quite simple really. His move then would be CL so i dnt get it yeah. Put people pulling me up.... quieten down. Haha. I don't want him leave either. Nobody does. But if a CL club comes in with a fair price then he will want to go to advance his career which is understandable and the right thing to do That is in no way "dishonorable". And that is the point here. This. We’d all love him to stay and develop his game further with us but we must understand ambition and when it reaches a point where all parties come out of it with a win accept it without bitterness. He seems a smashing lad and doesn’t look the least bit distracted. |
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Post by questionable on Jul 19, 2024 20:43:15 GMT
Has he just signed with Nike, who 100% will want him signing for the biggest club possible
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Jul 19, 2024 20:49:15 GMT
Im on about him furthering his career etc, if he goes he goes i wouldnt call him dishonourable either i just think better move in one year thats all. And also 9million at fist quoted was never enough even if he was begging to leave. I agree a better move will come next year. But his team or him might not be thinking that. The positive is that he isn't the sort to complain or kick up a fuss. So that will give us the chance to hopefully demand a fair price without him forcing our hand. |
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Post by StokieNath on Jul 19, 2024 20:51:34 GMT
Has he just signed with Nike, who 100% will want him signing for the biggest club possible While it’s true that signing with a major brand like Nike can come with significant visibility and marketing benefits, it’s important to note that such sponsorships typically do not dictate a player’s footballing decisions. The choice of which club to sign for is a complex one that involves the player’s personal preferences, career goals, the club’s vision and strategy, and often, the advice of the player’s agent and family. Nike, as a sponsor, would certainly be interested in maximizing the player’s exposure, which can align with playing for a high-profile club. However, the ultimate decision on where to play football lies with the player and his management team. They will consider all aspects, including but not limited to, the sporting project, personal development, financial terms, and the potential for success with the team. In summary, while Nike will have a vested interest in the player’s success and marketability, they will not be able to dictate his footballing choices. The player’s career path remains in his own hands, and any professional decisions will be made based on what’s best for his career and personal goals. |
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Post by baconburger on Jul 19, 2024 20:52:32 GMT
Has he just signed with Nike, who 100% will want him signing for the biggest club possible If it happens it happens. There will be pro’s and con’s. We lose a really nice player to watch but we enhance our reputation as a good stepping stone. I doubt there are many players who really want to play for Stoke above all else, not even BBD. If it happens re invest it wisely. |
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Post by enuntio on Jul 20, 2024 15:44:57 GMT
Im fine if the dollars right he can get a CL move next year, what bit dont you get? Just dnt want him to leave after 1 year. Quite simple really. His move then would be CL so i dnt get it yeah. Put people pulling me up.... quieten down. Haha. I don't want him leave either. Nobody does. But if a CL club comes in with a fair price then he will want to go to advance his career which is understandable and the right thing to do That is in no way "dishonorable". And that is the point here. The honourable thing is to honour his contract to the best of his ability... If a transit van load of €100 notes is offered and Stoke chose to sell him then that is OK. If he just wants to play for a better/bigger club and or a different league then the honourable thing is for him to honour his contract and wait until we choose to sell him. I think he will be a very honourable man |
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Post by stokiejoe89 on Jul 20, 2024 15:46:51 GMT
I don't want him leave either. Nobody does. But if a CL club comes in with a fair price then he will want to go to advance his career which is understandable and the right thing to do That is in no way "dishonorable". And that is the point here. The honourable thing is to honour his contract to the best of his ability... If a transit van load of €100 notes is offered and Stoke chose to sell him then that is OK. If he just wants to play for a better/bigger club and or a different league then the honourable thing is for him to honour his contract and wait until we choose to sell him. I think he will be a very honourable man 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️ |
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Post by enuntio on Jul 20, 2024 15:58:59 GMT
Qapla' batlh je
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