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Post by salopstick on Jun 24, 2008 8:46:17 GMT
on the radio 5 this morning there was a big discussion and reporty on the news that prisoners phone calls cost them too much and if they cant keep in touch with family they are more likely to re-offend
if scumbag drug dealers, rapists, murderers, paedos, burglars, robbers, cheats, liers and other general scum go to prison then fuck you!!!!!!!!!!!
stop moning about the conditions, serve your sentance and get on with your life, if you re-offend THEN YOU DESERVE EVERY THING YOU GET
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Post by st0kecity on Jun 24, 2008 9:02:06 GMT
But Salop, we are contravening their human rights. You know, that bit that states should you commit a crime you will be sentenced to serve less than half of what you should be serving, given 3 hot meals a day, warm bed, access to games room, TV and gymnasium and then be released to reoffend.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 24, 2008 9:31:42 GMT
have i got a human right not to be burgled, assaulted not to live in fear or be a victim in any crime
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jun 24, 2008 9:44:08 GMT
how about if you are one of hundreds of pensioners who are currently locked up for not being able to afford their council tax? or the single mums struggling to feed their baby so serving time for shop lifting baby products (73% of women in prison were caught stealing...the most common stolen goods? - NAPPIES!), or how about people who have ended up on drugs after having a rough run of it, shouldnt they be able to keep in contact with their families. or we could just put them all in dark rooms with no contact with the outside world? - they'd be punished, wouldnt they?
who cares if this means they become more removed from society and therefore more likely to commit more crimes?.....well, we would wouldnt we? we'd then be moaning about how to treat these people like crap, making it harder for them to rehabilitate, and so on and so on.
the percentage of prisoners who are 'scumbag drug dealers, rapists, murderers, paedos etc' is tiny, most people are inside because they are poor. lok at the stats if you dont believe me! 94% of crime is 'economically motivated' - and obviously the majority of them are shoplifting, minor fraud, council tax evasion, non payment of fines, bills etc - not armed bank robbery or cocaine trafficking
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Post by salopstick on Jun 24, 2008 10:09:43 GMT
how about if you are one of hundreds of pensioners who are currently locked up for not being able to afford their council tax? or the single mums struggling to feed their baby so serving time for shop lifting baby products (73% of women in prison were caught stealing...the most common stolen goods? - NAPPIES!), or how about people who have ended up on drugs after having a rough run of it, shouldnt they be able to keep in contact with their families. or we could just put them all in dark rooms with no contact with the outside world? - they'd be punished, wouldnt they? who cares if this means they become more removed from society and therefore more likely to commit more crimes?.....well, we would wouldnt we? we'd then be moaning about how to treat these people like crap, making it harder for them to rehabilitate, and so on and so on. the percentage of prisoners who are 'scumbag drug dealers, rapists, murderers, paedos etc' is tiny, most people are inside because they are poor. lok at the stats if you dont believe me! 94% of crime is 'economically motivated' - and obviously the majority of them are shoplifting, minor fraud, council tax evasion, non payment of fines, bills etc - not armed bank robbery or cocaine trafficking although some of your facts may be true it is no excuse my mam and dad brought up 7 children on the dole on shitty council estate. we always had food but apart from that we had fuck all, he never resorted to crime. out of those 73% of women inside for stealing with the most common product stolen being nappies and other baby products it would be interesting to know the percentage of them that smoke and drink, if they can smoke and drink they can buy nappies fuck them when my car got broken into no-one they did not give a fuck about me
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Post by st0kecity on Jun 24, 2008 10:21:51 GMT
I agree Salop, I wasnt especially privileged as a child either. I was an only child so spoilt to some extent, but I remember my Dad being Laid off at Michelin and things got tight. He sold the car and bought a moped, luxuries went, Mum stopped smoking etc. Nobody resorted to theft.
Mum always said "You cut your cloth according to your means" and she was right. Prioritise your needs, as salop says you dont smoke and drink then complain you cant afford nappies.
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jun 24, 2008 11:44:31 GMT
sorry guys, as much as i understand where you're coming from.(i was born piss poor too, and have never stolen anything).. i can understand why some people turn to crime. ive had mates who grew up on the same street as me, had even less than me, had parents who didnt give a fuck, couldnt get a job etc etc....its not a sob story, its the reality for millions of people. its not just being skint that makes people steal. people have to make the decision to steal, have to decide its worth it... so they've got to be pretty hopeless anyway. and people who feel hopeless and have been shat on all their lives dont have the luxory of sitting on their high-horse and passing judgement.
i smoke and i drink, i can afford to and that my fucking right. but what if i suddenly lost my job? or went bankrupt cus i lost track of my mortage payments? what then?
dont know if youve heard but apparantly nicotine and alcohol are both addictive... more so for the most vunerable. the same sort of people who may turn to shoplifting to feed their kid.
its so easy to pass judgement when we've not been in the same situation - its a damn sight harder when your in a situation like ive described. how about we just imagine ourselves living hand to mouth(i mean really hand to mouth) with no safety nets, no family to fall back on etc - can anyone really say i wouldnt steal from tescos to eat? or do a bunk to avoid a bill we couldnt pay?
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Post by TheDee51 on Jun 24, 2008 11:52:02 GMT
can anyone really say they wouldnt steal from tescos to eat? or do a bunk to avoid a bill we couldnt pay? YES - I can safely say I would never steal from tesco's to eat or avoid bills by doing a bunk. What a terrible attitude stokeypokey. I also smoke and drink. Are you asying that I will never ever give up because they are both 'addictive'? If so, you have no back bone man.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jun 24, 2008 12:01:04 GMT
I watched the Panorama programme last night about young children working in refugee camps in India - sowing sequins on t-shirts for 14 hours a day..many losing their eyesight due to this work
How happy they would be to have a roof over their head, 3 square meals a day, access to leisure facilities, a degree in sociology when they leave..
Makes me puke
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Post by santy on Jun 24, 2008 12:15:27 GMT
At the end of the day, there are always things you can do to get money if you really need to, or in some cases don't be daft enough to take out the debt in the first place, I mean if you order a big 50" flatscreen tv, a pc and a washing machine on credit and then cant afford to pay it off - you shouldn't have done it in the first place, I'm sure you wouldn't want people taking the same from you then not paying you for them.
Stealing - we all know its wrong and considering some of those "73%" of women will have gotten themselves pregnant just to live on benefits I don't have any sympathy for them, just the children who have to put up with mothers like that.
At high school a mate of mine was in the same boat as me, we were both pretty much on par in terms of intelligence, we both had a lot of ability with computers etc and both could have done what we wanted within reason, i'm a games programmer, last I heard he was on bentilee doing drugs and stealing things left right n centre because he couldn't be bothered at school and didnt feel like getting a job - he had 2 parents, well paid family owned their own home etc; I came form a less 'fortunate' background of single parent etc.
Nothing stops you from working hard or putting in a bit of effort, and if you actually cared for your child surely you would give up smoking & drinking for them rather than risk getting them put in care. People make too many excuses and too many people buy it so prisoners end up getting a cushy life because people start to feel bad for them, if the conditions of prison were so unbearable and detestable I'm sure they would be much less likely to re-offend.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jun 24, 2008 12:25:33 GMT
Have some karma santy
Fine post
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jun 24, 2008 14:31:25 GMT
no-one is born lazy! surely we can agree on that? in that case, why do people become lazy? it seems some people on here think that people one day just realise they can live on benefits forever without work - and so choose to live on the poverty line to avoid what most of us do without thinking about it!
but people dont just decide to do anything, we way it up against the alternatives - thats what a decision is!- and when we decide to do something or not, its conditioned by our opinions, our backgrounds, our up-bringing etc etc. that doesnt mean everyone born onto a council estate will end up inside, because we all react differently to different conditions. i work with a bloke who lived on the streets when he should have been in school, but he's one of the hardest workers i know, he doesnt let it hold him back - BUT that doesnt give me the right to demand he is a hard worker, if his background had made him incapable or just scared of a little hard work - who am i to judge????
im not skint, havent been since i was a kid - ive worked since i was 14 and probably wont stop work til im 70 - but that doesnt give me the right to pass judgement on people who for whatever reason dont work, have ended up inside or whatever! none of my business. i know that something has made them ill-equipped and thats their business. ive helped plenty of people find work on sites ive worked on, mainly kids with no education, qualifications etc - some have stuck around, got a trade, earnt some cash - others havent - but that doesnt mean ive got the right to condemn them, i have no fucking clue why someone would pass up the chance of a trade - but there is always a reason! not just cus they're 'idle' or 'scum'.
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Post by st0kecity on Jun 24, 2008 14:40:23 GMT
In which case stokey pokey, does it not bother you that you are out there working hard for your money, whilst a good proportion of the country live off benefits that you pay, whilst enjoying lavish lifestyles through crime?
Im studying full time, my husband works. There isnt a lot of cash to spare and a good portion of his earnings goes in tax. I dont have a 40" Flatscreen TV, I dont have holidays abroad or flash cars. Ive only got a sky sports subscription because Sky cocked up else we cancelled it to save money!
It bothers me that people can sit on their arses while money rolls in every week when we have worked bloody hard for what we have and done it with 100% honesty.
My Dad bless him, never stole nor claimed a penny and said all his life that everything he owned he worked for. There is a lot to be proud of there.
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Post by powchirper on Jun 24, 2008 15:04:01 GMT
Dont know if this is the right thread for this but here goes.
'Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.'
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Post by Fred Zeppelin on Jun 24, 2008 15:38:06 GMT
How are criminals supposed to arrange a hit on the witness in the trial if they can't have their phonecallls?
You aren't thinking this through
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jun 24, 2008 16:35:39 GMT
the reason it doesnt bother me miss piggy is partly because i know how much is actually given out in benefits - i couldnt live on it!
and secondly because i know the reason my wage isnt what it should be, that my taxes arent spent where they should be and money is waisted on bailing out northern rock and handed in bonuses to london financiers isnt the fault of people not working - its down to employers cutting corners i.e staff, wages, pensions and this so called 'labour' governments betrayel of working class people.
if you add up the total spent on benefits every year it pales in comparison to whats been spent in iraq or Afghanistan or bailing out northern rock(which by the way comes to £1000 per every tax payer!!!) or the 100's of billions collected in bonuses and tax breaks by the mega rich last year!
its not surprising the daily mail or the sun dont mention these little facts either - the sun is owned by a labour party supporter and the mail has long been funded by the tories.
it just seems a lot easier to blame prisoners, single mums, the unemployed, immigrants etc etc - but that doesnt mean they are the real problem IMO
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Post by stokey-pokey pudding and pie on Jun 24, 2008 16:39:03 GMT
p.s ive always lived by the same idea as your dad and im proud that ive worked for what i have. but i dont have a lot and i dont blame the unemployed for that, i blame people who've made money out of the work ive done (years of different employers) and the people who do fuck all about it (years of tory and labour governments)
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jun 24, 2008 21:14:28 GMT
Of course it's right that people should work for a living, both me and my wife work part-time, because thats the only way we can afford child-care...but there's plenty of people i've worked with over the years who skive and don't do their fair shair...laziness is not confined to the unemployed
Another fact is that over half a million people in this country care for a chronically-sick relative, partner, child, parent etc which the press never highlight because it destroys the notion of all unemployed people being workshy scroungers
And one last rant, a Member of Parliament, is allowed to claim up to 800 pounds PER-WEEK mortgage interest-payments on second-homes (as well as the first) and this mortgage interest is paid out to them by The Department of Work and Pensions, and that's on top of up to 25,000 per-year "expenses"...so the next time someone talks about "scroungers bleeding the country dry" ask them what MP they're talking about!
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Post by scfc147 on Jun 24, 2008 21:24:16 GMT
how about if you are one of hundreds of pensioners who are currently locked up for not being able to afford their council tax? or the single mums struggling to feed their baby so serving time for shop lifting baby products (73% of women in prison were caught stealing...the most common stolen goods? - NAPPIES!), or how about people who have ended up on drugs after having a rough run of it, shouldnt they be able to keep in contact with their families. or we could just put them all in dark rooms with no contact with the outside world? - they'd be punished, wouldnt they? who cares if this means they become more removed from society and therefore more likely to commit more crimes?.....well, we would wouldnt we? we'd then be moaning about how to treat these people like crap, making it harder for them to rehabilitate, and so on and so on. the percentage of prisoners who are 'scumbag drug dealers, rapists, murderers, paedos etc' is tiny, most people are inside because they are poor. lok at the stats if you dont believe me! 94% of crime is 'economically motivated' - and obviously the majority of them are shoplifting, minor fraud, council tax evasion, non payment of fines, bills etc - not armed bank robbery or cocaine trafficking UTTER BOLLOCKS YOUTH!! One word describes the reason crime is economically motivated DRUGS!!!!!
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Post by Fred Zeppelin on Jun 24, 2008 21:33:55 GMT
how about if you are one of hundreds of pensioners who are currently locked up for not being able to afford their council tax? or the single mums struggling to feed their baby so serving time for shop lifting baby products (73% of women in prison were caught stealing...the most common stolen goods? - NAPPIES!), or how about people who have ended up on drugs after having a rough run of it, shouldnt they be able to keep in contact with their families. or we could just put them all in dark rooms with no contact with the outside world? - they'd be punished, wouldnt they? who cares if this means they become more removed from society and therefore more likely to commit more crimes?.....well, we would wouldnt we? we'd then be moaning about how to treat these people like crap, making it harder for them to rehabilitate, and so on and so on. the percentage of prisoners who are 'scumbag drug dealers, rapists, murderers, paedos etc' is tiny, most people are inside because they are poor. lok at the stats if you dont believe me! 94% of crime is 'economically motivated' - and obviously the majority of them are shoplifting, minor fraud, council tax evasion, non payment of fines, bills etc - not armed bank robbery or cocaine trafficking UTTER BOLLOCKS YOUTH!! One word describes the reason crime is economically motivated DRUGS!!!!!I agree, the bloke in my local papershop says Aspirin and Neurofen sales have gone through the roof. Not to mention the Lemsips
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Post by scfc147 on Jun 24, 2008 21:36:24 GMT
Fred Pisser! have some karma
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Post by robdog on Jun 25, 2008 11:22:10 GMT
I wasnt born rich or poor.I was brought up in a 3 bedrommed semi with my mum,dad and older brother.My mother brought us up with the 'if you can afford you can have but if you cant afford you cant' and it worked.the only things ive ever had on finance are my mortgage and a car on an interest free loan.i dont smoke but I like a drink.If i cant afford a plasma tv i dont have one.if my washer packs up and i cant afford a new one i get it repaired.If i cant afford to go out i dont.Economically based crime is such a kop out.Most crims just want an easy life or a quick fix.The go out a rob innocent hard working people who live life according to the law and work hard for their possessions.String the lot of them up.It makes me sick when crimnials can sue their victims for their hard earned cash.
This country sucks.Lets all move to Zimbabwe.If you dont do things Mugabe's way then you get killed - simple as.Allegedly.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 25, 2008 12:27:39 GMT
i would miss uk too much
lets replace brown with mugabe
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Post by st0kecity on Jun 25, 2008 12:47:48 GMT
I wasnt born rich or poor.I was brought up in a 3 bedrommed semi with my mum,dad and older brother.My mother brought us up with the 'if you can afford you can have but if you cant afford you cant' and it worked.the only things ive ever had on finance are my mortgage and a car on an interest free loan.i dont smoke but I like a drink.If i cant afford a plasma tv i dont have one.if my washer packs up and i cant afford a new one i get it repaired.If i cant afford to go out i dont.Economically based crime is such a kop out.Most crims just want an easy life or a quick fix.The go out a rob innocent hard working people who live life according to the law and work hard for their possessions.String the lot of them up.It makes me sick when crimnials can sue their victims for their hard earned cash. This country sucks.Lets all move to Zimbabwe.If you dont do things Mugabe's way then you get killed - simple as.Allegedly. Exactly how I was raised. My Mum would go mad if anyone suggested as much as having a shirt from a catalogue lol. "If you cant pay for it now you dont have it!". I've always lived by that, and like you if we cant afford it we dont have it. Its a shame that a lot of todays society doesnt live to that, places like Brighthouse thrive on the credit culture. Makes me wonder every time I walk past whether half of the people that have stuff from there stop for a moment and actually read the APR on the goods.
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Post by vestanpance on Jun 25, 2008 12:53:02 GMT
This is an intelligent, high brow and sensible debate regarding the penal conditions in the United Kingdom, with this in mind, i don't think my own style of irreverant and childish wit would be best suited in a discussion of this magnitude. That said, I feel it my duty to point out that "Penal" sounds a bit like "Penis", which is the proper name for a willy.
You, to conclude, you are all talking about willies, which means you are gay.
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Post by SegaMegaDave on Jun 25, 2008 13:14:45 GMT
ha ha... willies
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Post by st0kecity on Jun 25, 2008 13:17:37 GMT
**snigger**
You said Willies
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Post by vestanpance on Jun 25, 2008 13:20:12 GMT
;D
So there are still people with a sense of humour on here.
Thank God for that.
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Post by SegaMegaDave on Jun 25, 2008 13:21:06 GMT
hee hee hee.....he said GAY too!
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Post by st0kecity on Jun 25, 2008 13:22:30 GMT
Aha, but Vestan I'm allowed to talk about Willies cos Im a girl so that doesnt make me gay and ner ner ne ner ner!!
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