Michael O Neill -----The Last Word

[independent]

MON was hired to:

1. Prevent our relegation.

2. Offload our overpaid Players.

3. Reduce the wage bill.

4. Avoid a FFP points deduction.

5. Bring on younger players

6. Keep us out of the drop zone while doing the above.

All this to be done with no cash available to spend.

I will leave it to the reader to decide how he did with each item on the list.



MON managed the club for 2 complete seasons.

2020/2021

Good first half of season, then unfortunately lost his main striker Campbell.

Unable to replace him he had to rely on Vokes and McClean for goals. As a result in the

second half of the season he went very defensive and set a new club record for draws.

Was never in trouble and finished the season with 60 pts.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2021/2022

Again, started very well and was 5th in the League when Souttar got injured with Australia.

Had Souttar and Powell our best players out for more than half the season.

Managed to get Brown scoring and Tymon playing well and signed Baker.

Was never in any trouble and finished the season with 62 pts.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2022/2023

Having managed to cope easily enough without his best striker one season

and without his 2 best players the other, it seemed reasonable to believe that he could again get the results we needed

for the final year of his contract especially as he would have Souttar and Powell back,

and Campbell would have another year's rehab. And the standard of the league had gone way down. I thought that he should see out his contract.

As I didn't envisage him providing the front foot, aggressive, attacking football that the fans felt they deserved,he should then be replaced.

Whoever took over the job would then start in June with a clean sheet, money to spend and a preseason to get his team fit and organised.

AN, who the board coveted, became available and the board made what I think was a big mistake and fired MON.

Personally I think it would have been better to put AN on the BET365 payroll until June or earlier if MON wasn't doing well.



Here are some posts from a week before the season started:



scfc75 Jul 23, 2022 at 5:57pm via mobile

We haven’t lost any key players have we? The ones that have left haven’t made me think “they’re leaving a hole”. And I think everybody we’ve signed so far

will contribute. As others have said, it’s about how we set up and approach games - the squad is better than last season, and we will probably still add to it,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

scfcwebby Jul 23, 2022 at 6:16pm via mobile Caerwrangonpotter, werrington, and 5 more like this

The main part of the squad that needs addressing, is the guy that's managing it.

This squad, with a new forward thinking, attack minded manager will finish in the top 6 with ease IMO

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Caerwrangonpotter Jul 23, 2022 at 6:19pm Gary Hackett, greenhoff, and 1 more like this

Good squad but poor manager. It will only end in one way now

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc



Before AN's second game,against Reading (our 8th game of the season), this is what the pundit's on Sky said:



Glen: Like I mentioned,(AN), he's obviously assessed the situation before he took the job and he fancies that group of players. And I think me and Jobi spoke

off air and, and we agree that on paper it's a fantastic group of players and he obviously feels like it can bring success.I think this is now the right time

to start looking up for Stoke.



Jobi : Well (The Aim) it has to be getting in and around those playoff places.Michael O'Neill has to take some credit in terms of the job he did.

He has brought players in, a lot of players and players of real top quality.So I think going back to Alex Neil, he will look at that group of players and think,

right, maybe at club's gone by, like Preston, he probably didn't have the same amount of quality, still did really, really well there. So he'll obviously go

and put all that work and,and know how, into that group of players and with a better caliber of players, I'm sure the aim is definitely the playoffs.



All 5 above quotes do not suggest to me that MON left the club in a terrible state and we have a team that should be in danger of the drop.

Personally,I think AN will keep us up and he will get the chance to assemble his own side. That will be the time to assess how good he actually is,
and whether the board acted wisely.
The only opinions in the piece relate to this season and i have given my reasons for them. They are impossible to prove one way or the other.
Please do not post on this thread unless it is to correct  actual facts as I would like the thread title to remain as accurate as the threads contents.

[chiprockets]

why do you get the last word?
Some random oatcake users opinion do not make it a fact ffs

[danceswithclams]

He done a big post and this alone demands you respect his authority.

Get with the program noob.

😅

[SuperRickyFuller]

[mtrstudent]

MON did a lot of good things.

Then some really weird stuff that was causing shit football and shit results over and over again.

He'd lost the plot and it was time to move on. But he seems a good bloke and I wish him all the best.

[SuperRickyFuller]

Jan 21, 2023 15:21:08 GMT chiprockets said:

why do you get the last word?
Some random oatcake users opinion do not make it a fact ffs

Because he thinks he's very important. You've only got to see some of his posts towards people like The Toxic Avenger.

The reality is that he's a complete penis.

[biddulphchav]

Personally, I thought MON did well, overall. Definitely felt like we’d begun to stall a bit, but would have liked to have seen us stick with him, as I think he’d have figured it out sooner rather than later.

Anyway it really doesn’t matter anymore, Neil is the man now and we’ve just got to hope he can sort things out. I don’t think he’s the man for the longer term, and not sure he’ll be good for younger players / making us sustainable by selling from the academy etc and a number of other things though.

[terryconroysmagic]

Jan 21, 2023 15:47:46 GMT mtrstudent said:

MON did a lot of good things.

Then some really weird stuff that was causing shit football and shit results over and over again.

He'd lost the plot and it was time to move on. But he seems a good bloke and I wish him all the best.

That’s probably it in summary

[terrorofturfmoor]

Jan 21, 2023 15:13:19 GMT independent said:

MON was hired to:

1. Prevent our relegation.

2. Offload our overpaid Players.

3. Reduce the wage bill.

4. Avoid a FFP points deduction.

5. Bring on younger players

6. Keep us out of the drop zone while doing the above.

All this to be done with no cash available to spend.

I will leave it to the reader to decide how he did with each item on the list.



MON managed the club for 2 complete seasons.

2020/2021

Good first half of season, then unfortunately lost his main striker Campbell.

Unable to replace him he had to rely on Vokes and McClean for goals. As a result in the

second half of the season he went very defensive and set a new club record for draws.

Was never in trouble and finished the season with 60 pts.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2021/2022

Again, started very well and was 5th in the League when Souttar got injured with Australia.

Had Souttar and Powell our best players out for more than half the season.

Managed to get Brown scoring and Tymon playing well and signed Baker.

Was never in any trouble and finished the season with 62 pts.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

2022/2023

Having managed to cope easily enough without his best striker one season

and without his 2 best players the other, it seemed reasonable to believe that he could again get the results we needed

for the final year of his contract especially as he would have Souttar and Powell back,

and Campbell would have another year's rehab. And the standard of the league had gone way down. I thought that he should see out his contract.

As I didn't envisage him providing the front foot, aggressive, attacking football that the fans felt they deserved,he should then be replaced.

Whoever took over the job would then start in June with a clean sheet, money to spend and a preseason to get his team fit and organised.

AN, who the board coveted, became available and the board made what I think was a big mistake and fired MON.

Personally I think it would have been better to put AN on the BET365 payroll until June or earlier if MON wasn't doing well.



Here are some posts from a week before the season started:



scfc75 Jul 23, 2022 at 5:57pm via mobile

We haven’t lost any key players have we? The ones that have left haven’t made me think “they’re leaving a hole”. And I think everybody we’ve signed so far

will contribute. As others have said, it’s about how we set up and approach games - the squad is better than last season, and we will probably still add to it,

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

scfcwebby Jul 23, 2022 at 6:16pm via mobile Caerwrangonpotter, werrington, and 5 more like this

The main part of the squad that needs addressing, is the guy that's managing it.

This squad, with a new forward thinking, attack minded manager will finish in the top 6 with ease IMO

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Caerwrangonpotter Jul 23, 2022 at 6:19pm Gary Hackett, greenhoff, and 1 more like this

Good squad but poor manager. It will only end in one way now

ccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc



Before AN's second game,against Reading (our 8th game of the season), this is what the pundit's on Sky said:



Glen: Like I mentioned,(AN), he's obviously assessed the situation before he took the job and he fancies that group of players. And I think me and Jobi spoke

off air and, and we agree that on paper it's a fantastic group of players and he obviously feels like it can bring success.I think this is now the right time

to start looking up for Stoke.



Jobi : Well (The Aim) it has to be getting in and around those playoff places.Michael O'Neill has to take some credit in terms of the job he did.

He has brought players in, a lot of players and players of real top quality.So I think going back to Alex Neil, he will look at that group of players and think,

right, maybe at club's gone by, like Preston, he probably didn't have the same amount of quality, still did really, really well there. So he'll obviously go

and put all that work and,and know how, into that group of players and with a better caliber of players, I'm sure the aim is definitely the playoffs.



All 5 above quotes do not suggest to me that MON left the club in a terrible state and we have a team that should be in danger of the drop.

Personally,I think AN will keep us up and he will get the chance to assemble his own side. That will be the time to assess how good he actually is,
and whether the board acted wisely.
The only opinions in the piece relate to this season and i have given my reasons for them. They are impossible to prove one way or the other.
Please do not post on this thread unless it is to correct  actual facts as I would like the thread title to remain as accurate as the threads contents.

Waaaaaaay to much time on your hands!!!

[dirtclod]

When MON took over, he worked miracles to clean out the high-priced (not in demand) deadwood (To the shock of many of us), while working within the framework of Financial Foul-Play. Don't think it's a stretch to say that he "rescued" this club at the time and achieved the 6 points you listed. These were players we were stuck with on higher pay combined with low-performance that nobody wanted. Appears to me that MON knows his finance, would make a great used-car salesman and is a likeable bloke, so I partially understood why some recommended at the time we "kick him upstairs" and hire another on-pitch manager.

But that would have been strictly a loyalty move by the Coates. I wouldn't have thrown a fit if they'd done that, but it wouldn't have worked. We have been horrible at going out and hiring people & recruiting players that fit an actual system of play. (And that includes MON) So I think the better thing was to roll the dice again, clear him and the coaching staff out for our...(I lose count- 12th?) rebuild. In addition to sucking at recruitment for any specific system of play, the coaching and medical staff clearly failed at maintaining the squad's fitness and fundamental-skills levels. So, you don't need pen and paper to calculate that again, we blew the timing - should have made a move at the end of last season in order to give someone else a shot with a summer window and preseason.
And I still rage over MON's opinion that we didn't "need" a DM. Are you kidding me? In the Championship? I'd have canned him last year for that assertion alone. (But apparently, I'm unreasonable) And towards the end, not only did he lose the plot but wasn't even in the same ocean for the search and rescue.

Also agree with giving AN at least a chance to assemble his own side in the summer. He's handcuffed severely by Financial Foul Play for this January window. (And I'm biased as I hate January windows) I too think they'll give him a chance, which is a gamble because it could go South beforehand. But bringing in yet another person from the available pool to instantly get this unbalanced squad left over from 3,4 previous failed regimes performing, especially given whom we could attract to come here with our financial constraints? It would be an even larger gamble and would fail spectacularly. This person has to be mix between a daycare worker, accountant, business-manager, recruiter, psychiatrist, executioner and brilliant tactician. The scope of the manager's job here is WAY WAY too wide! You can't just come in here and focus on the on-pitch performance, too many other things to do. This is why we can't seem to hire a "decent" manager, even though multiple ex-Stoke managers have moved on and done just fine elsewhere. And here we'd go again, taking the same actions of hiring yet another one, but expecting different results.

It's very similar to our issues with whomever we bring in as a striker and/or GK. We bring in striker after striker and GK's in a revolving-door and nothing changes. The problem isn't with the ends of the pitch. (Even though we DO need to do something about GK) The real issue is our unbalanced, gormless, unable to pass midfield with no leader. Competition for good midfielders is just as tough as it is for strikers and we've faffed around long enough that the lower we fall in the table, the less we are in position to compete for the better (Apparently rare in the Championship?) midfielders. I only say "apparently rare" as I haven't been impressed with the midfielders in this league. (Maybe I was spoiled by the PL days?) But even with that, we've somehow succeeded in assembling (If not the worst) one of the worst midfields in the damned league.

So we need to get over the alleged "great group of players" we thought we had because,
1) They weren't and
2) It's totally unfit for any effective system of play, which allows me to finally get to my point.

I believe that in AN we have our first manager in the last 5 who MIGHT actually recruit a starting 11 (And ultimately a bench) for a specific SYSTEM of play. What a concept! It's gotten so bad that I think few of us still even care WHAT system it is as long as the players that we have match it.

I think he'll keep us up too, mainly because this league (Surely? Fingers-crossed) contains 3 worse sides than us. But we won't come close to achieving the "lofty heights" of my 11th place prediction - that ship has sailed and we're in a relegation fight.
Again.