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Post by Gods on Jan 15, 2023 10:17:38 GMT
Just catching up on this bill which has been approved in Scotland and allows anyone over 16 to self identify their gender with no medical intervention.
I thought I was the world's most liberal man, all for trans rights, but I'm troubled by this. What about...
1.Safe spaces for women.
2.16 seems very young.
3.What of perv control.
One could simply fill in a form and 3 months later be pleasuring yourself in the girls hockey changing rooms were you so minded!
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Post by salopstick on Jan 15, 2023 10:21:52 GMT
*applies for said form
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Post by andystokey on Jan 15, 2023 10:24:33 GMT
I'm sure one would be breaking the law in the hockey changing rooms either way.
See Sexual Offences Act 2003
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Post by noustie on Jan 15, 2023 10:46:36 GMT
If I ever have the misfortune of becoming a celebrity this would be my specialist subject on The Wheel.
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Post by Gods on Jan 15, 2023 10:49:41 GMT
I nearly held back from typing the hockey part, fearful as I was of giving anyone any ideas  |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 15, 2023 10:56:34 GMT
Just catching up on this bill which has been approved in Scotland and allows anyone over 16 to self identify their sex with no medical intervention. I thought I was the world's most liberal man, all for trans rights, but I'm troubled by this. What about... 1.Safe spaces for women. 2.16 seems very young. 3.What of perv control. One could simply fill in a form and 3 months later be pleasuring yourself in the girls hockey changing rooms were you so minded! One could do that in the boys hockey room now. One would be committing a criminal offence either way |
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Post by Orbs on Jan 15, 2023 11:14:17 GMT
Don’t you already self-identify as a cunt? |
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Post by Orbs on Jan 15, 2023 11:14:50 GMT
Just catching up on this bill which has been approved in Scotland and allows anyone over 16 to self identify their sex with no medical intervention. I thought I was the world's most liberal man, all for trans rights, but I'm troubled by this. What about... 1.Safe spaces for women. 2.16 seems very young. 3.What of perv control. One could simply fill in a form and 3 months later be pleasuring yourself in the girls hockey changing rooms were you so minded! Their sex or their gender? |
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Post by thevoid on Jan 15, 2023 11:37:51 GMT
At least Nicola Sturgeon can now identify as a woman 😉
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Post by Gods on Jan 15, 2023 11:41:15 GMT
Just catching up on this bill which has been approved in Scotland and allows anyone over 16 to self identify their sex with no medical intervention. I thought I was the world's most liberal man, all for trans rights, but I'm troubled by this. What about... 1.Safe spaces for women. 2.16 seems very young. 3.What of perv control. One could simply fill in a form and 3 months later be pleasuring yourself in the girls hockey changing rooms were you so minded! Their sex or their gender? I'll change it to gender, I guess you are kind of stuck with your biological sex? |
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Post by musik on Jan 15, 2023 11:42:13 GMT
I didn't even know there was an age limit.
But I'm from Sweden.
👱
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Post by noustie on Jan 15, 2023 12:04:59 GMT
Just catching up on this bill which has been approved in Scotland and allows anyone over 16 to self identify their sex with no medical intervention. I thought I was the world's most liberal man, all for trans rights, but I'm troubled by this. What about... 1.Safe spaces for women. 2.16 seems very young. 3.What of perv control. One could simply fill in a form and 3 months later be pleasuring yourself in the girls hockey changing rooms were you so minded! One could do that in the boys hockey room now. One would be committing a criminal offence either way You can chop your hand off in a machine with or without a guard doesn't mean you remove the guards surely? The risk here is introducing more opportunity to predatory males but we're risking basic safeguarding for feelz. The safeguards being put in place are frankly laughable. Two year prison sentence for fraudulently acquiring a change in gender but no definition of what living like a women looks like - how do you prove it? Even worse there's a five year prison sentence for sex offenders who change their name and don't tell police. Sky found of the few forces to respond in 2020 there's a 1000 sex offenders missing that are known about let alone unknown. If five years doesn't put them off why would two years? Then if you have a certificate you can apply for a dbs check to not include your dead name and it is up to the sex offenders themselves to notify the police so their criminal record transfers over to the new name. What could possibly go wrong? |
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Post by noustie on Jan 15, 2023 12:12:26 GMT
Their sex or their gender? I'll change it to gender, I guess you are kind of stuck with your biological sex? Maybe aye maybe no. I've seen various legal professionals claim this 'could' allow a certificate holder into single 'sex' spaces but it would take case law to ascertain either way. One described it as: the door hasn't changed; the lock hasn't changed but; the number of keys being handed out has with it later, following an incident, being determined who if any need to hand theirs back. Doubt Fort Knox would employ such a strategy but vulnerable women and kids may well be exposed to such. |
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Post by chuffedstokie on Jan 15, 2023 12:28:43 GMT
I nearly held back from typing the hockey part, fearful as I was of giving anyone any ideas Played hockey all my life, showers or communal baths after some mixed games were great fun that's how my best man met his wife, having said that there were only a couple of genders to pick from. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 15, 2023 12:47:43 GMT
One could do that in the boys hockey room now. One would be committing a criminal offence either way You can chop your hand off in a machine with or without a guard doesn't mean you remove the guards surely? The risk here is introducing more opportunity to predatory males but we're risking basic safeguarding for feelz. The safeguards being put in place are frankly laughable. Two year prison sentence for fraudulently acquiring a change in gender but no definition of what living like a women looks like - how do you prove it? Even worse there's a five year prison sentence for sex offenders who change their name and don't tell police. Sky found of the few forces to respond in 2020 there's a 1000 sex offenders missing that are known about let alone unknown. If five years doesn't put them off why would two years? Then if you have a certificate you can apply for a dbs check to not include your dead name and it is up to the sex offenders themselves to notify the police so their criminal record transfers over to the new name. What could possibly go wrong? I do not think this law will see any increase in predatory male behaviour. Predators will be predators and it is not like there aren’t predators in England without this law. This law impacts almost nobody. Far less than 1% of the population. 99.9% of the population will be completely unaffected by it. It is a non-issue. |
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Post by Orbs on Jan 15, 2023 13:29:55 GMT
Their sex or their gender? I'll change it to gender, I guess you are kind of stuck with your biological sex? I think that’s the point yes. Gender is their choice of identification but can’t change the biological sex. |
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Post by felonious on Jan 15, 2023 13:34:49 GMT
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Post by xchpotter on Jan 15, 2023 20:33:11 GMT
Let them crack on with it. I can’t help feeling it was all choreographed by wee Jimmie just so she could get the government to intervene and prove she was right about her case for devolution.
As long as it doesn’t cost me a single penny, let them do what they want as I’m fed up hearing about Scotland.
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Post by metalhead on Jan 16, 2023 8:41:29 GMT
You can chop your hand off in a machine with or without a guard doesn't mean you remove the guards surely? The risk here is introducing more opportunity to predatory males but we're risking basic safeguarding for feelz. The safeguards being put in place are frankly laughable. Two year prison sentence for fraudulently acquiring a change in gender but no definition of what living like a women looks like - how do you prove it? Even worse there's a five year prison sentence for sex offenders who change their name and don't tell police. Sky found of the few forces to respond in 2020 there's a 1000 sex offenders missing that are known about let alone unknown. If five years doesn't put them off why would two years? Then if you have a certificate you can apply for a dbs check to not include your dead name and it is up to the sex offenders themselves to notify the police so their criminal record transfers over to the new name. What could possibly go wrong? I do not think this law will see any increase in predatory male behaviour. Predators will be predators and it is not like there aren’t predators in England without this law. This law impacts almost nobody. Far less than 1% of the population. 99.9% of the population will be completely unaffected by it. It is a non-issue. Doesn't it provide yet another opportunity for a predator to be a predator though? |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 16, 2023 9:08:02 GMT
I do not think this law will see any increase in predatory male behaviour. Predators will be predators and it is not like there aren’t predators in England without this law. This law impacts almost nobody. Far less than 1% of the population. 99.9% of the population will be completely unaffected by it. It is a non-issue. Doesn't it provide yet another opportunity for a predator to be a predator though? The opportunity is already there. It doesn’t create a new opportunity for a predator. If a 16 year old predator wants to prey on a 16 year old hockey team player then I am sure there are enough opportunities for them to do so, without having to single themselves out at 16 by changing their gender to infiltrate the hockey team. They probably already go to school with the hockey team, or socialise with them, creating ample opportunities for predatory behaviour. In any event, if a 16 year old started playing with themselves or tried to sexually assault members of a hockey team in their changing room, they would be faced with an angry hockey squad armed with hockey sticks. I don’t fancy the predator’s chances! Also is a 16 year old with a cock who just announces they are changing their gender really going to be allowed in a girls changing room? I doubt it. It may mean they have to change by themselves. The reason for those not living in Scotland (Scotland certainly has the devolved powers to make this law) to oppose it are on a legal basis if it contradicts superior Equality Act legislation which takes precedence. Obviously brexiteers (the Westminster government) would be complete hypocrites if they adopted that argument! For those living in Scotland, they can of course argue the merits of the legislation. 16 seems very young to me, but what the hell do I know about changing genders? I imagine experts were consulted and there is some rationale behind giving powers to children of that age. But as I have said, save for the fairly minor constitutional legal issue (does it contradict the Equality Act?), this is a non story as it impacts so few of us. |
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Post by noustie on Jan 16, 2023 10:38:19 GMT
You can chop your hand off in a machine with or without a guard doesn't mean you remove the guards surely? The risk here is introducing more opportunity to predatory males but we're risking basic safeguarding for feelz. The safeguards being put in place are frankly laughable. Two year prison sentence for fraudulently acquiring a change in gender but no definition of what living like a women looks like - how do you prove it? Even worse there's a five year prison sentence for sex offenders who change their name and don't tell police. Sky found of the few forces to respond in 2020 there's a 1000 sex offenders missing that are known about let alone unknown. If five years doesn't put them off why would two years? Then if you have a certificate you can apply for a dbs check to not include your dead name and it is up to the sex offenders themselves to notify the police so their criminal record transfers over to the new name. What could possibly go wrong? I do not think this law will see any increase in predatory male behaviour. Predators will be predators and it is not like there aren’t predators in England without this law. This law impacts almost nobody. Far less than 1% of the population. 99.9% of the population will be completely unaffected by it. It is a non-issue. Lions are predators and there’s only c.100 of them in the UK – nobody would ever argue for taking the fences down at safari parks though. Even the SNP believe there is an increase in risk as they voted down an amendment to ban Sex Offenders from getting a certificate and instead replaced it with a risk assessment on a case by case basis ergo sex offenders will be getting certificates. Risk management is a hierarchy and if you can avoid the risk that is obviously preferable then trying to manage the risk – if you attempt to manage the risk you introduce opportunity for the management systems to fail and in this case we’re speaking about sex offenders. The reason they didn’t ban them was because if they had then it would have been outside the competence of the Scottish Government as it would have strayed onto reserve matters and therefore they consciously decided to crack on without the ban for expediency. In terms of numbers this has a potential impact on 50% of the population. The system has historically been set-up to deal with 30 certificates a year which are provided following a medical assessment confirming gender dysphoria. Removing the requirement for a medical assessment even the Scottish government are predicting this number to rise to 300 a year which in itself is hugely conservative. It also begs the question why did the other 270 not fancy a medical assessment – I couldn’t go to Nationwide and identify as someone who could own a million pound house without a financial professional being involved. There’s been a 4000% increase in girls referred to Taverstock before it closed and c.1 in 25 high school kids identifying as trans in schools in US so the number could sky rocket so a system designed to cope with 30, removing its only real risk management apparatus and about to be hit by a tsunami of applicants of course presents a risk. It's important to note too that if you can’t avoid the risk then you are accepting that you have to manage the risk and at each stage of the pyramid it gets more and more likely something may happen regardless of the proficiency of the system. In the Hierarchy of Controls moving downwards: Elimination – we’re already ascertained we’re not doing this Substitution – We can’t replace the hazard Engineering – Can we isolate people from the hazard? – we’re potentially doing the antithesis. Administrative controls – This is where the risk assessment output comes into play. PPE: Issuing women and girls with tasers and pepper spray if the above is unsuccessful? |
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Post by noustie on Jan 16, 2023 10:59:56 GMT
Doesn't it provide yet another opportunity for a predator to be a predator though? The opportunity is already there. It doesn’t create a new opportunity for a predator. If a 16 year old predator wants to prey on a 16 year old hockey team player then I am sure there are enough opportunities for them to do so, without having to single themselves out at 16 by changing their gender to infiltrate the hockey team. They probably already go to school with the hockey team, or socialise with them, creating ample opportunities for predatory behaviour. In any event, if a 16 year old started playing with themselves or tried to sexually assault members of a hockey team in their changing room, they would be faced with an angry hockey squad armed with hockey sticks. I don’t fancy the predator’s chances! Also is a 16 year old with a cock who just announces they are changing their gender really going to be allowed in a girls changing room? I doubt it. It may mean they have to change by themselves. The reason for those not living in Scotland (Scotland certainly has the devolved powers to make this law) to oppose it are on a legal basis if it contradicts superior Equality Act legislation which takes precedence. Obviously brexiteers (the Westminster government) would be complete hypocrites if they adopted that argument! For those living in Scotland, they can of course argue the merits of the legislation. 16 seems very young to me, but what the hell do I know about changing genders? I imagine experts were consulted and there is some rationale behind giving powers to children of that age. But as I have said, save for the fairly minor constitutional legal issue (does it contradict the Equality Act?), this is a non story as it impacts so few of us. The problem is we’ve heard it is a minor administrative procedure and now that the UK government are threatening to block it then Stonewall now say it has ‘significant consequences’ for trans people – it can’t be both at the same time. Personally I believe it is neither. Sorry but you’re just flat out wrong on the point of a lad suddenly saying they’re a girl and having access to the girls changing rooms – guidance to schools in Scotland specifically says that the children in question have to be affirmed and if a girl, or girls, take umbrage then the issue is theirs and should be moved to separate changing facilities. There has been a massive push back in the Highlands where schools were starting to use mixed toilets so you had 12 year old girls potentially having to use the same facilities as 16 year old boys. If an incident occurs then the perpetrator can be removed from there according to the guidance – that’s like me going out of a risk management survey and telling a client to put a guard on a machine once it lops someone’s arm off. In terms of schools too what happens when a 16 year old gets a certificate and is in sixth form in a comprehensive school like I used to attend? You’d have 16-18 year penis owners who would have potential legal access to use the same toilet as a 12 year old girl which again presents various safeguarding risks. I agree with 16 year old being too young, especially when you have to be 18 for a tattoo or buy alcohol, but the issue again is that in the Scottish Government guidance a teacher can keep the child’s new gender from parents and medical professionals if they decide, following a half day training session presumably, that it is in the child’s best interests. The parents therefore could be massively behind the curve and again with a 4000% rise in girls referrals where Cass found 90c.% grew out of it and that homosexual children, autistic children and those with parents who’d lost an earlier child were massively overrepresented this is another risk to think about. The did consult ‘specialist’ groups but these were organisations typically funded by the Scottish government, or focus groups set up by the Scottish Government so they just got the answers they wanted. Feminist lobby groups were kept out until they realised they had to pretend to listen to them or else it wouldn’t have moved on another stage- think they got half a day and were basically ignored. The group of MSP’s who voted the bill through earlier stages continually did it 4 v 3 – it was a complete stich up from start to finish. |
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 16, 2023 12:13:08 GMT
The opportunity is already there. It doesn’t create a new opportunity for a predator. If a 16 year old predator wants to prey on a 16 year old hockey team player then I am sure there are enough opportunities for them to do so, without having to single themselves out at 16 by changing their gender to infiltrate the hockey team. They probably already go to school with the hockey team, or socialise with them, creating ample opportunities for predatory behaviour. In any event, if a 16 year old started playing with themselves or tried to sexually assault members of a hockey team in their changing room, they would be faced with an angry hockey squad armed with hockey sticks. I don’t fancy the predator’s chances! Also is a 16 year old with a cock who just announces they are changing their gender really going to be allowed in a girls changing room? I doubt it. It may mean they have to change by themselves. The reason for those not living in Scotland (Scotland certainly has the devolved powers to make this law) to oppose it are on a legal basis if it contradicts superior Equality Act legislation which takes precedence. Obviously brexiteers (the Westminster government) would be complete hypocrites if they adopted that argument! For those living in Scotland, they can of course argue the merits of the legislation. 16 seems very young to me, but what the hell do I know about changing genders? I imagine experts were consulted and there is some rationale behind giving powers to children of that age. But as I have said, save for the fairly minor constitutional legal issue (does it contradict the Equality Act?), this is a non story as it impacts so few of us. The problem is we’ve heard it is a minor administrative procedure and now that the UK government are threatening to block it then Stonewall now say it has ‘significant consequences’ for trans people – it can’t be both at the same time. Personally I believe it is neither. Sorry but you’re just flat out wrong on the point of a lad suddenly saying they’re a girl and having access to the girls changing rooms – guidance to schools in Scotland specifically says that the children in question have to be affirmed and if a girl, or girls, take umbrage then the issue is theirs and should be moved to separate changing facilities. There has been a massive push back in the Highlands where schools were starting to use mixed toilets so you had 12 year old girls potentially having to use the same facilities as 16 year old boys. If an incident occurs then the perpetrator can be removed from there according to the guidance – that’s like me going out of a risk management survey and telling a client to put a guard on a machine once it lops someone’s arm off. In terms of schools too what happens when a 16 year old gets a certificate and is in sixth form in a comprehensive school like I used to attend? You’d have 16-18 year penis owners who would have potential legal access to use the same toilet as a 12 year old girl which again presents various safeguarding risks. I agree with 16 year old being too young, especially when you have to be 18 for a tattoo or buy alcohol, but the issue again is that in the Scottish Government guidance a teacher can keep the child’s new gender from parents and medical professionals if they decide, following a half day training session presumably, that it is in the child’s best interests. The parents therefore could be massively behind the curve and again with a 4000% rise in girls referrals where Cass found 90c.% grew out of it and that homosexual children, autistic children and those with parents who’d lost an earlier child were massively overrepresented this is another risk to think about. The did consult ‘specialist’ groups but these were organisations typically funded by the Scottish government, or focus groups set up by the Scottish Government so they just got the answers they wanted. Feminist lobby groups were kept out until they realised they had to pretend to listen to them or else it wouldn’t have moved on another stage- think they got half a day and were basically ignored. The group of MSP’s who voted the bill through earlier stages continually did it 4 v 3 – it was a complete stich up from start to finish. In terms of schools, that is a concern, as you say, 16-18 year old “boys” using a 12 year old girl’s toilet. But that happens now and how many incidents have there been? I still think the issue is a molehill being made into a mountain. The bigger ramification is constitutional |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 16, 2023 12:33:06 GMT
This bill is dangerous, disgusting and evil. Lock Sturgeon up and throw away the key.
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Post by noustie on Jan 16, 2023 13:35:52 GMT
The problem is we’ve heard it is a minor administrative procedure and now that the UK government are threatening to block it then Stonewall now say it has ‘significant consequences’ for trans people – it can’t be both at the same time. Personally I believe it is neither. Sorry but you’re just flat out wrong on the point of a lad suddenly saying they’re a girl and having access to the girls changing rooms – guidance to schools in Scotland specifically says that the children in question have to be affirmed and if a girl, or girls, take umbrage then the issue is theirs and should be moved to separate changing facilities. There has been a massive push back in the Highlands where schools were starting to use mixed toilets so you had 12 year old girls potentially having to use the same facilities as 16 year old boys. If an incident occurs then the perpetrator can be removed from there according to the guidance – that’s like me going out of a risk management survey and telling a client to put a guard on a machine once it lops someone’s arm off. In terms of schools too what happens when a 16 year old gets a certificate and is in sixth form in a comprehensive school like I used to attend? You’d have 16-18 year penis owners who would have potential legal access to use the same toilet as a 12 year old girl which again presents various safeguarding risks. I agree with 16 year old being too young, especially when you have to be 18 for a tattoo or buy alcohol, but the issue again is that in the Scottish Government guidance a teacher can keep the child’s new gender from parents and medical professionals if they decide, following a half day training session presumably, that it is in the child’s best interests. The parents therefore could be massively behind the curve and again with a 4000% rise in girls referrals where Cass found 90c.% grew out of it and that homosexual children, autistic children and those with parents who’d lost an earlier child were massively overrepresented this is another risk to think about. The did consult ‘specialist’ groups but these were organisations typically funded by the Scottish government, or focus groups set up by the Scottish Government so they just got the answers they wanted. Feminist lobby groups were kept out until they realised they had to pretend to listen to them or else it wouldn’t have moved on another stage- think they got half a day and were basically ignored. The group of MSP’s who voted the bill through earlier stages continually did it 4 v 3 – it was a complete stich up from start to finish. In terms of schools, that is a concern, as you say, 16-18 year old “boys” using a 12 year old girl’s toilet. But that happens now and how many incidents have there been? I still think the issue is a molehill being made into a mountain. The bigger ramification is constitutional Honestly mate could bore you all day on this. One of the amendments tabled was on data recording and it got voted down - if they don't measure it how can they manage it? Unfortunately I couldn't find a wording, the reason it was voted down or what, if anything replaces it. The reason it disturbs me though is because other self-id territories are always held up as evidence the world doesn't end but this is deeply concerning from a Belgian journalist: grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/self-id-in-belgium-no-news-is-goodThe Inverness school was mental and it wasn't until it hit the press that they actually changed the unisex bathroom arrangements - until then they'd basically allowed the kids complaining to be bullied for being transphobic. There was girls staying off school because they were scared to change their sanitary stuff at school and all sorts. I'd be interested in your concern from a constitutional perspective? I'm a nationalist (ish) although fading rapidly - my concern is the SG has operated outside its legal parameters and, even if I agreed with it, I couldn't support that as allowing a government to operate outside its legal confines is dangerous. The other aspect would be its an open goal for West Minster really. Another thought would be why are they willing to operate outside their legal confines for something like self-id but not to bring a second independence referendum? |
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Post by slash on Jan 16, 2023 13:44:07 GMT
You can chop your hand off in a machine with or without a guard doesn't mean you remove the guards surely? The risk here is introducing more opportunity to predatory males but we're risking basic safeguarding for feelz. The safeguards being put in place are frankly laughable. Two year prison sentence for fraudulently acquiring a change in gender but no definition of what living like a women looks like - how do you prove it? Even worse there's a five year prison sentence for sex offenders who change their name and don't tell police. Sky found of the few forces to respond in 2020 there's a 1000 sex offenders missing that are known about let alone unknown. If five years doesn't put them off why would two years? Then if you have a certificate you can apply for a dbs check to not include your dead name and it is up to the sex offenders themselves to notify the police so their criminal record transfers over to the new name. What could possibly go wrong? I do not think this law will see any increase in predatory male behaviour. Predators will be predators and it is not like there aren’t predators in England without this law. This law impacts almost nobody. Far less than 1% of the population. 99.9% of the population will be completely unaffected by it. It is a non-issue. the issue is that the predatory males are now identifying as women so they are put into women's prisons. the entire transgender fad has gotten out of hand. we as a society need to put our foot down and say no more. ten years ago when there were stringent requirements for "gender dysphoria" and any sort of sex changes, you didn't see nearly the amount of people claiming to self id. but now you send your daughter to school and she comes home telling you she's a he, it's fuckin mental. not to mention how insanely sexist the whole thing is. what happened to where we as a society were in the 90's, when you could look and dress how you wanted, even if that wasn't conforming to the sexist gender norms, and not be trans? it's mad, and conservatives are going to take this issue and run and will never lose another election because of it. |
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Post by wannabee on Jan 16, 2023 14:12:47 GMT
I do not think this law will see any increase in predatory male behaviour. Predators will be predators and it is not like there aren’t predators in England without this law. This law impacts almost nobody. Far less than 1% of the population. 99.9% of the population will be completely unaffected by it. It is a non-issue. Lions are predators and there’s only c.100 of them in the UK – nobody would ever argue for taking the fences down at safari parks though. Even the SNP believe there is an increase in risk as they voted down an amendment to ban Sex Offenders from getting a certificate and instead replaced it with a risk assessment on a case by case basis ergo sex offenders will be getting certificates. Risk management is a hierarchy and if you can avoid the risk that is obviously preferable then trying to manage the risk – if you attempt to manage the risk you introduce opportunity for the management systems to fail and in this case we’re speaking about sex offenders. The reason they didn’t ban them was because if they had then it would have been outside the competence of the Scottish Government as it would have strayed onto reserve matters and therefore they consciously decided to crack on without the ban for expediency. In terms of numbers this has a potential impact on 50% of the population. The system has historically been set-up to deal with 30 certificates a year which are provided following a medical assessment confirming gender dysphoria. Removing the requirement for a medical assessment even the Scottish government are predicting this number to rise to 300 a year which in itself is hugely conservative. It also begs the question why did the other 270 not fancy a medical assessment – I couldn’t go to Nationwide and identify as someone who could own a million pound house without a financial professional being involved. There’s been a 4000% increase in girls referred to Taverstock before it closed and c.1 in 25 high school kids identifying as trans in schools in US so the number could sky rocket so a system designed to cope with 30, removing its only real risk management apparatus and about to be hit by a tsunami of applicants of course presents a risk. It's important to note too that if you can’t avoid the risk then you are accepting that you have to manage the risk and at each stage of the pyramid it gets more and more likely something may happen regardless of the proficiency of the system. In the Hierarchy of Controls moving downwards: Elimination – we’re already ascertained we’re not doing this Substitution – We can’t replace the hazard Engineering – Can we isolate people from the hazard? – we’re potentially doing the antithesis. Administrative controls – This is where the risk assessment output comes into play. PPE: Issuing women and girls with tasers and pepper spray if the above is unsuccessful? ALL Lions are Predators who have been taken out of their Natural Environment ostensibly as a safeguard against Extinction To use Lions as an analogy with Sexual Predators is Bizarre You say and justify that currently a Medical Assessment is required to obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate GRC but you disingenuously omit that the Medical Assessment is a Psychological Medical Assessment followed by a Panel Review of people who have no knowledge of the Applicant This also answers your question as to why more Trans people do not subject themselves to this undignified process. What is the difference between a Gay Man/Woman self declaring their sexuality other than previously Gay/Women were seen to be suffering from a Mental Disorder but thankfully Society has moved on and a Trans Man/Woman self declaring their Sexuality Much fuss is also made regarding the reduction from 2 years living as a Trans person to 3 months but this overlooks that there is a further 3 months "cooling off period " after the application is made before the GRC is issued The main objection to a change in Law is to protect Women in Safe Spaces which are generally described as Public Toilets, Changing Rooms and Refuge Centres etc. I totally agree with this objective but it has nothing to do with Trans people but Male Sexual Predators. I don't discount entirely that there may be a small number of Male Sexual Predators who might seek to exploit this but I contend they could do this with or without a GRC And what about safe spaces for Trans People? Within Society currently Trans people are among the most subjected to Violence and Discrimination This investigation puts the percentage of Trans people suffering violence and abuse at 31% www.surrey.ac.uk/news/trans-people-and-cisgender-gay-men-uk-are-most-likely-experience-violenceThis survey puts the figure above 60% www.thenational.scot/news/19556842.60-transgender-people-scotland-experience-workplace-harassment-survey-says/ |
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 16, 2023 14:19:23 GMT
As usual, threads like this always revert to the LCD of the subject. In this case, it's that gender self-identity makes for perverts gaining access to the opposite sex for sexual gratification. But in reality, self - identity is making some people feel comfortable in their own skin. I have a member of my family who is the safety officer of a multi-age, multi-gender rugby club and I can assure you all that any issues of self-identity would be treated properly. Ergo, entire males or females would not be allowed in changing rooms of the opposite sex to the one they've inherited, bodily, at birth, just as no of-age males are allowed to use the same changing/shower rooms at the same time as under-age players.
Self-identity is more to do with feelings rather than acts. Do I think people should be allowed to self-identify at the age of 16? Why not? They're allowed to have sex at 16, which is physical, but they're not allowed to feel good about themselves at that age! Surely, the real parameter should boil down to actual physical gender conversion. Gender self-identity will harm no one. And even if a person self identifies and then realises when they get older that it was just a phase they were going through, providing they've not undergone actual sexual physical conversion, they can revert to whatever they were simply by changing back identity.
I agree with what Oggy says above; people are making a mountain out of a molehill, either because of politics or they simply don't like people because they don't conform to the 'norm'. What next? Ban abortion; make homosexuality illegal; put to death transsexuals because they're an abomination? And don't say that can't happen. There are still some societies that already do that. As for Starmer, the more he opens his stupid mouth, the more I dislike him.
OS.
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Post by slash on Jan 16, 2023 14:23:46 GMT
what does it mean to identify as a man or a woman? is anyone able to answer that without a sexist response?
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 16, 2023 14:44:45 GMT
what does it mean to identify as a man or a woman? is anyone able to answer that without a sexist response? It's very simple. It's all to do with dodgy chromosomes and, despite the genitals they were born with, some people feeling uncomfortable with how they've been identified at birth - male or female. Gender fluidity is a highly complex subject and many people who consider themselves to be 'straight', either through ignorance or by deliberate homophobia, will fight tooth and nail against anything they consider to be different. As for the sexual side, that's a minefield of complexities. It's an entirely different subject and we'd best not go there with that one. As an example, many transsexuals are asexual and only care about how they feel inside. OS. |
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