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Post by felonious on Jul 1, 2023 19:03:22 GMT
The Maya Forstater case was interesting. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-62061929Ms Forstater welcomed the outcome. She said in a statement: "My case matters for everyone who believes in the importance of truth and free speech. "We are all free to believe whatever we wish. What we are not free to do is compel others to believe the same thing, to silence those who disagree with us or to force others to deny reality." Update she's now officially had an acknowledgement of discrimination. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-66076021
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Post by felonious on Jul 2, 2023 13:30:10 GMT
Forstater, a founder of the campaign group Sex Matters, said: “Organisations that call people ‘bigots’ and that discriminate against them because of their beliefs can expect to pay significant damages when these cases come to court. “This final judgment provides me with some measure of closure and vindication, as it requires that CGD compensate me for my loss of income and injury to feelings. And it makes clear that the organisation’s statements about me suggesting that I might have engaged in harassment or discrimination were false.” She thanked the author JK Rowling for her support. www.theguardian.com/society/2023/jul/01/maya-forstater-woman-who-lost-job-after-tweeting-view-on-biological-sex-awarded-100000-by-tribunal
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Post by noustie on Jul 2, 2023 20:07:37 GMT
What is a woman?
A bloke shooting experimental chemically and hormonal infused moob gunk into a new-born for their own perverted fetishism apparently
It's the 'mum' off the ITV news moaning about water prices.
(Click on the photo)
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Post by salopstick on Jul 3, 2023 2:46:03 GMT
What is a woman? A bloke shooting experimental chemically and hormonal infused moob gunk into a new-born for their own perverted fetishism apparently It's the 'mum' off the ITV news moaning about water prices. (Click on the photo) Not just perverted fetism they are grooming kids with this ideology
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Post by slash on Jul 3, 2023 4:00:02 GMT
transgender ideology is rooted in homophobia and sexism. the religious cult preys on young gay kids in attempt to trans the gay away since pray the gay away is out of fashion. it's cruel and sick.
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Post by noustie on Jul 3, 2023 5:47:09 GMT
What is a woman? A bloke shooting experimental chemically and hormonal infused moob gunk into a new-born for their own perverted fetishism apparently It's the 'mum' off the ITV news moaning about water prices. (Click on the photo) Not just perverted fetism they are grooming kids with this ideology Someone mentioned as soon as they saw the advert that there's a breast pump front and centre when he's washing the dishes. Wearing tights and all - performative for his own gratification but no doubt there'll be plenty who happy clap stunning and brave.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 3, 2023 7:56:07 GMT
A bloke is born with a knob A woman is born with a fanny End of Are you making that as a personal statement as to how you treat people or do you want that imposed as a social norm? If it's just the way you want to deal with the world that's fine provided you accept that others equally have the right to have a more nuanced view of the world than you. The problems start to arise if you believe your simplistic view of the world should be the social norm. How are you going to enforce it and what are you going to do with those who oppose it? A big problem with this issue is it's very complex and yet people try to make it a simple binary issue with woke lefties on one side and right wing traditionalists on the other with each side supposedly sharing the same set of views. The reality is they don't - there are are range of views that don't fall neatly into two camps. For those that like to see things in binary terms I'm a woke lefty but I think there are a whole raft of issues that need working through - for me the whole question of what a women/men only space is is up for debate and shouldn't just be shouted down from either side of the political divide. Fundamentally I believe in live and let live. The issue here is we don't know how to and simply ignoring or denying the complexity of the issue isn't going to get us (as in society) anywhere. You might want to see everyone in binary terms (which is fine) but the fact is not everyone goes along with that and unless you adopt some pretty awful political tactics that never will.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 3, 2023 8:14:52 GMT
What is terrible is that they have normalised trans. It’s not fucking normal. Being gay is none of my business. Who people sleep with is up to them I really don’t care if people are gay or not. Trans is a different kettle of fish. The argument against being gay that it is not natural is bollocks. However trans isn’t natural. It’s being used for all sorts of agendas but telling kids in school that’s it’s normal is wrong. The bbc faced back lash for this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385But no one wants to be seen to be coming out against any trans issue incase they get JK’d
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Post by adri2008 on Jul 3, 2023 8:42:24 GMT
For me the issue is why do people feel they are a different gender to the one they are born as? - If someone is brought up with no outside influences, they'd surely be content in themselves exactly how they are. This is more to do with pre-conceived ideas in society of what a woman/man should be and how they should behave, so anybody that doesn't fit into the rigid template feels that there is something wrong with them.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 3, 2023 8:53:02 GMT
What is terrible is that they have normalised trans. It’s not fucking normal. Being gay is none of my business. Who people sleep with is up to them I really don’t care if people are gay or not. Trans is a different kettle of fish. The argument against being gay that it is not natural is bollocks. However trans isn’t natural. It’s being used for all sorts of agendas but telling kids in school that’s it’s normal is wrong. The bbc faced back lash for this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385But no one wants to be seen to be coming out against any trans issue incase they get JK’d Why is it such an issue all of a sudden? I mean it wasn't that long ago we had a trans winner of Big Brother, a much loved Coronation Street character for about a decade and no one batted an eyelid. Who are you or I to suggest that someone that feels trapped in the wrong body and all the mental baggage that comes with that is "not natural?" I work with someone who transitioned from a man to a woman, they've lost most of their family and friends because of it and they sure as hell didn't do it lightly. I asked her "was it worth it?" once, she said "If I hadn't done it I'd have killed myself years ago" I think having empathy for people like this is the least we can do. The problem is the arguments get amplified and people lose their sense of reason, cut through the extremists on both sides and there's discussions to be had about the genuine concerns about safe spaces for women, equality in sport etc..........
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 3, 2023 9:02:32 GMT
What is terrible is that they have normalised trans. It’s not fucking normal. Being gay is none of my business. Who people sleep with is up to them I really don’t care if people are gay or not. Trans is a different kettle of fish. The argument against being gay that it is not natural is bollocks. However trans isn’t natural. It’s being used for all sorts of agendas but telling kids in school that’s it’s normal is wrong. The bbc faced back lash for this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385But no one wants to be seen to be coming out against any trans issue incase they get JK’d Why is it such an issue all of a sudden? I mean it wasn't that long ago we had a trans winner of Big Brother, a much loved Coronation Street character for about a decade and no one batted an eyelid. Who are you or I to suggest that someone that feels trapped in the wrong body and all the mental baggage that comes with that is "not natural?" I work with someone who transitioned from a man to a woman, they've lost most of their family and friends because of it and they sure as hell didn't do it lightly. I asked her "was it worth it?" once, she said "If I hadn't done it I'd have killed myself years ago" I think having empathy for people like this is the least we can do. The problem is the arguments get amplified and people lose their sense of reason, cut through the extremists on both sides and there's discussions to be had about the genuine concerns about safe spaces for women, equality in sport etc.......... This. Particularly the last paragraph which can also apply to numerous other current arguments. It’s all about who shouts loudest and people wanting to thrust their views down your throat.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 3, 2023 9:13:57 GMT
What is terrible is that they have normalised trans. It’s not fucking normal. Being gay is none of my business. Who people sleep with is up to them I really don’t care if people are gay or not. Trans is a different kettle of fish. The argument against being gay that it is not natural is bollocks. However trans isn’t natural. It’s being used for all sorts of agendas but telling kids in school that’s it’s normal is wrong. The bbc faced back lash for this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385But no one wants to be seen to be coming out against any trans issue incase they get JK’d Why is it such an issue all of a sudden? I mean it wasn't that long ago we had a trans winner of Big Brother, a much loved Coronation Street character for about a decade and no one batted an eyelid. Who are you or I to suggest that someone that feels trapped in the wrong body and all the mental baggage that comes with that is "not natural?" I work with someone who transitioned from a man to a woman, they've lost most of their family and friends because of it and they sure as hell didn't do it lightly. I asked her "was it worth it?" once, she said "If I hadn't done it I'd have killed myself years ago" I think having empathy for people like this is the least we can do. The problem is the arguments get amplified and people lose their sense of reason, cut through the extremists on both sides and there's discussions to be had about the genuine concerns about safe spaces for women, equality in sport etc.......... i would respect any individual to do what they want but that comes at a cost. A man cannot and should not expect parity with a woman just because he wants to be one, same applies to a woman who wishes they were a man. It is not normal or natural, they are trying to portray it as such. there are children at my kids school who are going back and forth over this. its a chicken and egg thing. this trying to normailise it and preach it to kids is damaging to children imo. a teenager struggling with their sexuality now has "what if im the wrong sex" to contend with. its not fair on the children whilst individual stories are sad, it doesnt mean changing sex is the answer
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Post by salopstick on Jul 3, 2023 9:14:42 GMT
Why is it such an issue all of a sudden? I mean it wasn't that long ago we had a trans winner of Big Brother, a much loved Coronation Street character for about a decade and no one batted an eyelid. Who are you or I to suggest that someone that feels trapped in the wrong body and all the mental baggage that comes with that is "not natural?" I work with someone who transitioned from a man to a woman, they've lost most of their family and friends because of it and they sure as hell didn't do it lightly. I asked her "was it worth it?" once, she said "If I hadn't done it I'd have killed myself years ago" I think having empathy for people like this is the least we can do. The problem is the arguments get amplified and people lose their sense of reason, cut through the extremists on both sides and there's discussions to be had about the genuine concerns about safe spaces for women, equality in sport etc.......... This. Particularly the last paragraph which can also apply to numerous other current arguments. It’s all about who shouts loudest and people wanting to thrust their views down your throat. and the trans community seem to be shouting loudest. god help you if you disagree with them
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 3, 2023 9:18:51 GMT
This. Particularly the last paragraph which can also apply to numerous other current arguments. It’s all about who shouts loudest and people wanting to thrust their views down your throat. and the trans community seem to be shouting loudest. god help you if you disagree with them Exactly and that’s a large part of the problem. People don’t like to feel they’re being bullied. Hayley Cropper was endearing because people loved her for the kind lady she was and her gender became secondary to her the person. When your shouted at that your this or that if you don’t agree with someone people generally bite back and the arguments lost. I don’t think the majority of people have an issue with trans I know I don’t it’s just the way it’s being forced on people and the vitriol of the trans extremists.
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Post by salopstick on Jul 3, 2023 9:28:14 GMT
not really
i dont hate transpeople
i dont like the movement, i dont like the agenda, i dont like women sports people losing to better trans women. i dont like the way people like jk and sharon davies get villified for having a contrary opinion
i dont like the fact that as soon as you speak out against trans you are labelled hateful
it seems the pro trans opinion has to be the correct one
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jul 3, 2023 9:29:35 GMT
Seems to me this whole thing gets confused because of a lack of clarity over terminology. Maybe this might help:
M Male F Female N Non binary (being biologically male and female is a thing and is quite common in some societies)
Biological Sex at Birth ((This can only change as a result of a genuine error of identification at birth)
Biological Sex Now (Most people recognise this is possible)
Gender Identification (This may or may not be the same as Biological Sex)
I think this helps better frame the discussion. So for example the indiction for playing in women's sports might be:
FFX
ie birth and current biological Sex matter but gender identity doesn't.
For those that only recognise Biological Sex at Birth as relevant this won't help but for those that actually would like to work through this it might.
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Post by gawa on Jul 3, 2023 9:31:56 GMT
What is terrible is that they have normalised trans. It’s not fucking normal. Being gay is none of my business. Who people sleep with is up to them I really don’t care if people are gay or not. Trans is a different kettle of fish. The argument against being gay that it is not natural is bollocks. However trans isn’t natural. It’s being used for all sorts of agendas but telling kids in school that’s it’s normal is wrong. The bbc faced back lash for this www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-57853385But no one wants to be seen to be coming out against any trans issue incase they get JK’d Why is it such an issue all of a sudden? I mean it wasn't that long ago we had a trans winner of Big Brother, a much loved Coronation Street character for about a decade and no one batted an eyelid.Who are you or I to suggest that someone that feels trapped in the wrong body and all the mental baggage that comes with that is "not natural?" I work with someone who transitioned from a man to a woman, they've lost most of their family and friends because of it and they sure as hell didn't do it lightly. I asked her "was it worth it?" once, she said "If I hadn't done it I'd have killed myself years ago" I think having empathy for people like this is the least we can do. The problem is the arguments get amplified and people lose their sense of reason, cut through the extremists on both sides and there's discussions to be had about the genuine concerns about safe spaces for women, equality in sport etc.......... Probably because the tories don't have anything else to run on in the upcoming election. 30P Lee said their only hope is culture wars so this probably explains why the Daily Mail/Express are running so many stories on this type of topic recently. The thing is, like you said yourself, there are alot of important sub topics within the overall trans topic which needs to be discussed. Drag, kids education, sport, womens toilets, prison places etc.. I don't believe in calling people transphobic because they don't agree with the whole movement. You can support and oppose different trans issues in my opinion because there is no single right answer. You raise very good points about some existing famous trans people. I'd add to that, that when I was a child we went to pantomime quite a few times at christmas which nearly always had a male lead in drag. I didn't feel that I was corrupted by watching a man dress as a woman doing a bit of comedy, it was just a bit of fun and funny tbh. Similarly I remember youth club weekends away where we had talent shows and one of the leaders would dress up as Britney Spears and sing a song as a joke and it was funny. He wasn't gay; I still know the man and he's married 40+ years with 3 kids and grandkids. It was just a laugh and something funny. If the same videos were played today though then I'm sure there'd be some insecure men sharing them saying how we're all corrupted and confused kids all of a sudden. Anyway as I've said many times before, I don't really have a great deal of care or interest in the trans cause. From a political pov I'm more interested in austerity, poverty, health care, housing, economy, mortgage/rent costs, mental health etc.. Which are much bigger issues for me and the policies/manifestos which touch on these topics will influence my vote. If the recent trans movement and definitions of women was a priority for me then I'd probably vote for a party like Reform or another right wing party. I wouldn't vote conservative because they've had 13 years with a majority in the commons and not once done anything in relation to the "trans problem" despite easily being able to push through a bill in the commons. If they're the party to sort what some deem to be a "big issue", then why haven't they sorted it yet?
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Post by cheadlepotter on Jul 3, 2023 9:47:21 GMT
The media’s portrayal of trans people, be it chat shows, soap operas or whatever else, doesn’t help.
For example, male gay characters on soaps/dramas for years were always very camp and every storyline they were involved in was about them being the gay character. Heterosexual characters could be funny, nasty, dull, mean, arrogant, etc, but gay characters were just gay. Whereas in the real world you could talk to many a gay man without knowing they were gay. Emmerdale has been brilliant in their approach in recent years with Aaron being gay, and now with Matty being trans.
But if we keep giving Piers Morgan the spotlight interviewing every wrongun he can find them we’ll never move forward.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 3, 2023 9:53:03 GMT
This. Particularly the last paragraph which can also apply to numerous other current arguments. It’s all about who shouts loudest and people wanting to thrust their views down your throat. and the trans community seem to be shouting loudest. god help you if you disagree with them The "trans community" (i hate that phrase) includes some of the most marginalised people in society. Most will just be regular people who want a quiet life free from prejudice and abuse, they are not the bad guys........
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Post by salopstick on Jul 3, 2023 10:05:01 GMT
and the trans community seem to be shouting loudest. god help you if you disagree with them The "trans community" (i hate that phrase) includes some of the most marginalised people in society. Most will just be regular people who want a quiet life free from prejudice and abuse, they are not the bad guys........ fair point
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 3, 2023 10:07:12 GMT
and the trans community seem to be shouting loudest. god help you if you disagree with them The "trans community" (i hate that phrase) includes some of the most marginalised people in society. Most will just be regular people who want a quiet life free from prejudice and abuse, they are not the bad guys........ They aren’t. I think that’s what on the whole people are saying are that It’s the activists that try shoving their views on you and start accusing when you have a different one like Sharon Davies that are the issue. The sports argument is one I don’t agree with in relation to trans athletes being allowed to compete against females. They clearly have an unfair advantage. I don’t see there’s too much wrong with that argument but god help you if you say it on a popular forum.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 3, 2023 10:11:43 GMT
The "trans community" (i hate that phrase) includes some of the most marginalised people in society. Most will just be regular people who want a quiet life free from prejudice and abuse, they are not the bad guys........ They aren’t. I think that’s what on the whole people are saying are that It’s the activists that try shoving their views on you and start accusing when you have a different one like Sharon Davies that are the issue. The sports argument is one I don’t agree with in relation to trans athletes being allowed to compete against females. They clearly have an unfair advantage. I don’t see there’s too much wrong with that argument but god help you if you say it on a popular forum. Sharon Davies and the likes of JK Rowling have shared and liked material that is out and out transphobic whether you believe in the crux of their argument or not. And if we talk about extremists on both sides someone like Graham Linehan who no doubt started debating the trans issue in good faith and came from a point of genuine concern to disappearing down the rabbit hole and just losing the plot............
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Post by foster on Jul 3, 2023 10:34:41 GMT
They aren’t. I think that’s what on the whole people are saying are that It’s the activists that try shoving their views on you and start accusing when you have a different one like Sharon Davies that are the issue. The sports argument is one I don’t agree with in relation to trans athletes being allowed to compete against females. They clearly have an unfair advantage. I don’t see there’s too much wrong with that argument but god help you if you say it on a popular forum. Sharon Davies and the likes of JK Rowling have shared and liked material that is out and out transphobic whether you believe in the crux of their argument or not. And if we talk about extremists on both sides someone like Graham Linehan who no doubt started debating the trans issue in good faith and came from a point of genuine concern to disappearing down the rabbit hole and just losing the plot............ Can you share this transphobic material from Rowling mate? All I've seen (admittedly not much as I don't do twatter) is people saying women are born with a vagina, or in the case of birth defects, non male body parts, which for me is more common sense than transphobic. Is saying what biologically constitutes a natural woman transphobic?
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 3, 2023 10:35:01 GMT
They aren’t. I think that’s what on the whole people are saying are that It’s the activists that try shoving their views on you and start accusing when you have a different one like Sharon Davies that are the issue. The sports argument is one I don’t agree with in relation to trans athletes being allowed to compete against females. They clearly have an unfair advantage. I don’t see there’s too much wrong with that argument but god help you if you say it on a popular forum. Sharon Davies and the likes of JK Rowling have shared and liked material that is out and out transphobic whether you believe in the crux of their argument or not. And if we talk about extremists on both sides someone like Graham Linehan who no doubt started debating the trans issue in good faith and came from a point of genuine concern to disappearing down the rabbit hole and just losing the plot............ As you say both sides. I guess a lot depends on peoples interpretation of what transphobic is. I’m sure it differs. For me there’s a huge difference between someone questioning / having an opinion and actually being transphobic.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jul 3, 2023 10:55:04 GMT
I think a lot of the problem now lies with the self identification model that the trans community seems to wish to push at every opportunity
I can’t see where anyone can be against someone who has had years of both mental and physical processes to change their orientation And if it helps them achieve fulfilling happy lives than good luck to them
The current situation is not sustainable where it appears you can decide one morning you want to be a woman/ man / wardrobe ( other items available) and the trans lobby expect/ demand the rest of the population except these choices
And before people leap on this I’m well aware that not everyone suddenly decides and have unfortunately sadly gone through weeks months years of personal turmoil
I just feel that the solution should involve far more medical services And support rather than the advocate diy solutions being peddled Which just upsets and fuels further distrust dislike from the less sympathetic members of society
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Post by noustie on Jul 3, 2023 11:22:36 GMT
I'm sorry but if trans community are the most marginalised why have ITV gone with the above bloke not only cosplaying female but also claiming motherhood to report on water bills when there are 20m+ other mums to choose from?
The picture is a bloke having an infant sucking his nipple to get moob gunk out on a bus ffs.
It's suitably 2023 that they're now playing the victim card on Twitter and it's transphobes with the issue.
Where's the line?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jul 3, 2023 11:45:41 GMT
I'm sorry but if trans community are the most marginalised why have ITV gone with the above bloke not only cosplaying female but also claiming motherhood to report on water bills when there are 20m+ other mums to choose from? The picture is a bloke having an infant sucking his nipple to get moob gunk out on a bus ffs. It's suitably 2023 that they're now playing the victim card on Twitter and it's transphobes with the issue. Where's the line? You'd have to ask ITV. Why was Brianna Ghey murdered after years of transphobic abuse and gang beatings? I prefer to look at the stats, as I said earlier I'm not here to defend every person who may or may not claim to be trans including the person you're referring to, but to generalise a whole group of people with statements such as "they're now playing the victim card on Twitter" isn't helpful in my opinion.......... EDIT Actually I'll let her explain it herself:
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Post by gawa on Jul 3, 2023 12:31:11 GMT
I'm sorry but if trans community are the most marginalised why have ITV gone with the above bloke not only cosplaying female but also claiming motherhood to report on water bills when there are 20m+ other mums to choose from? The picture is a bloke having an infant sucking his nipple to get moob gunk out on a bus ffs. It's suitably 2023 that they're now playing the victim card on Twitter and it's transphobes with the issue. Where's the line? It seems the person has been used to distract from the real issue being reported and to change the conversation away from water bills affecting everyone and instead to discuss a trans person. It's worked quite well.
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Post by thevoid on Jul 3, 2023 13:06:56 GMT
I'm sorry but if trans community are the most marginalised why have ITV gone with the above bloke not only cosplaying female but also claiming motherhood to report on water bills when there are 20m+ other mums to choose from? The picture is a bloke having an infant sucking his nipple to get moob gunk out on a bus ffs. It's suitably 2023 that they're now playing the victim card on Twitter and it's transphobes with the issue. Where's the line? It seems the person has been used to distract from the real issue being reported and to change the conversation away from water bills affecting everyone and instead to discuss a trans person. It's worked quite well. Why would ITV News employ such a tactic? They have no vested interest in the well-being of water companies to my knowledge.
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Post by wannabee on Jul 3, 2023 13:09:22 GMT
So how widespread is Transgenderism (is that even a word?) and I don't mean that in a sense of trivialising the issue
In the most recent 2021 Census which an optional question was "Is the gender you identify with the same as your sex registered at birth?"
45.7 Million or 94% answered the question and responded as follows:
262,000 said No
118,000 didn't respond in what way 48,000 identified as Trans Men 48,000 identified as Trans Women 30,000 identified as non-binary 18,000 identified in a different gender identity
So a very small percentage of Society (<0.5%) struggle living in the Gender in which they were born. It is commonly accepted that many people who struggle in this way suffer anxiety and mental conditions largely because of non acceptance by Society. Is this an issue which should be so polarised or should it be Trans people should be given help to support their life choices that have no effect on others.
Homosexuality was legalised in UK in 1967. Rather than leave the matter rest the Conservative Government of Margaret Thatcher in 1988 brought in an ammendment to the 1967 Law - Section 28 which prohibited the "Promotion of Homosexuality" This Law caused many support groups to close or face prosecution leaving a Vaccum for vulnerable people. Besides the Conservative Government those most prominent in the campaign to have the ammendment introduced to restrict peoples access to information were Religious Groups like Salvation Army, Christian Institute, Catholic Church, Muslim Council, Church of England etc They were aided in their campaign by The Daily Mail, The Telegraph and The Sun. The ammendment was repealed in 2003.
Perhaps Mrs Patrick Campbell was on the right track when she said almost 100 years ago
"Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!"
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