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Post by upthefud on Jul 2, 2022 5:50:10 GMT
I make this thread based on players like Matthews who is remembered as being great 80 years after his prime, but may be forgotten by the kids being born today
Will Eusebio lose his status as a great? Pele is being questioned currently, players like Charlton forgotten? Is Banks immune
You’d imagine Best would survive based on his lifestyle, but interested to hear your thoughts on household names that won’t be well known in the years to come
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 5:54:26 GMT
I'll do my very best to keep Ricardo Fuller's legacy alive.
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Post by upthefud on Jul 2, 2022 6:07:51 GMT
I'll do my very best to keep Ricardo Fuller's legacy alive. I posted this along with my Hearts supporting housemate in New Zealand, your answer couldn’t be more perfect
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 6:56:58 GMT
I think great players of the modern age won’t be forgotten like most great players from the 20th century, because (assuming civilisation lasts far into the future) there will always be highlights compilations. So even in 150 years people will be able to see just how great Messi was, in a way that simply isn’t possible for the stars from the first half of the 20th century especially.
Messi is maybe not the best example. Even great players who aren’t all time greats might be remembered for the reasons mentioned - whereas it’s only a very select few players from the distant past that remain in mainstream public consciousness.
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Post by lordb on Jul 2, 2022 8:20:44 GMT
It's the players from before the proliferation of TV coverage who get forgotten Even the likes of Pele there isn't that much coverage Di Stefano is probably the obvious on from Stoke Point of view Franklin, virtually forgotten nationally
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Post by march4 on Jul 2, 2022 8:41:11 GMT
I was a witness to a Q and A with some local celebrities and a question came from the audience ‘who is the greatest player ever Messi or Ronaldo?’
I was amazed that here in Stoke, no one else mentioned Stan even when I shouted out his name. No mention of Pele either.
The world is a strange place.
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 2, 2022 9:30:27 GMT
I was a witness to a Q and A with some local celebrities and a question came from the audience ‘who is the greatest player ever Messi or Ronaldo?’ I was amazed that here in Stoke, no one else mentioned Stan even when I shouted out his name. No mention of Pele either. The world is a strange place. Recent bias I think it’s called. Another thing is the bias on stats as well, difference for a this generation is the athleticism of their team mates and the quality of the pitch’s and equipment used both for match day and training, with the recovery aids and diets etc. I hold no doubt that if the likes of Stan, puskus, distefano and Franklin had been around for this they would be more phenomenal than they were. And imagine if Maradona and best were kept of coke and booze, what they could do while half baked is still more than 99%of footballers now. Same with injuries of Ronaldo and van basten had the medical care now what difference would it have made to them. Van basten was just over 30 years ago and ronaldo 25 since then the recovery and repair for their injuries is half the time and half the stress. Them two with knees and ankles that worked would have retired nearly all of Seria A’s defenders in the from the late eighties to the early 00’s.
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Post by Gods on Jul 2, 2022 9:48:15 GMT
The great Hungarian Ferenc Puskas. I think its partly that so little video footage exists but also in an age where raw athleticism and body image is all the kids don't believe a roly-poly fat fella could have been any good.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 9:50:37 GMT
Not a great deal of footage of players like Garrincha who many rated above Pele in his first WC campaign. Garrincha's book 100% worth a read. Had some life.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 9:51:47 GMT
The great Hungarian Ferenc Puskas. I think its partly that so little video footage exists but also in an age where raw athleticism and body image is all the kids don't believe a roly-poly fat fella could have been any good. Is that genuine? I know he was quite a portly chap...also that's a 1978 ball he's playing with
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jul 2, 2022 10:02:36 GMT
It's the players from before the proliferation of TV coverage who get forgotten Even the likes of Pele there isn't that much coverage Di Stefano is probably the obvious on from Stoke Point of view Franklin, virtually forgotten nationally Some of the earlier ones as well, like Sindelar and the Wunderteam, or Ricardo Zamora, though I suppose the trophy named after him keeps his memory alive.
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Post by lordb on Jul 2, 2022 10:11:56 GMT
The great Hungarian Ferenc Puskas. I think its partly that so little video footage exists but also in an age where raw athleticism and body image is all the kids don't believe a roly-poly fat fella could have been any good. Is that genuine? I know he was quite a portly chap...also that's a 1978 ball he's playing with It's a charity match or testimonial long after he had retired seen the photo before
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 10:22:49 GMT
Is that genuine? I know he was quite a portly chap...also that's a 1978 ball he's playing with It's a charity match or testimonial long after he had retired seen the photo before I thought they'd photoshopped him onto Troy Deeney's body
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Post by Gods on Jul 2, 2022 10:40:44 GMT
Prime time Puskas for balance, not sure what he has in his shorts!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 10:42:44 GMT
Prime time Puskas for balance, not sure what he has in his shorts! Possibly a take away
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jul 2, 2022 11:29:42 GMT
I see Matthews as forgotten because some people rely on stats too much. How many Ballon d'Or's would Matthews have won if the award existed before the 1950s? In general football circles, Di Stefano seems to be more fondly 'remembered' than Matthews, yet aged 41, Matthews beat a 30-year-old Di Stefano to the first-ever award.
The Internet and how much Wikipedia is updated for current players also means more current players will be remembered as greats. Many top players of the past barely have a Wikipedia entry, yet every average Joe (no pun intended) has a detailed entry these days.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 2, 2022 11:29:53 GMT
I make this thread based on players like Matthews who is remembered as being great 80 years after his prime, but may be forgotten by the kids being born today Will Eusebio lose his status as a great? Pele is being questioned currently, players like Charlton forgotten? Is Banks immune You’d imagine Best would survive based on his lifestyle, but interested to hear your thoughts on household names that won’t be well known in the years to come Zola, Bergkamp, Inzaghi, van Nistelrooy, Drogba, Henry: any forward who existed during in the time, or immediately prior to the beginning of the Messi/Ronaldo era, who must be the only two players on the planet since early 2000s. They’ll all be forgotten in years to come.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jul 2, 2022 11:31:59 GMT
I was a witness to a Q and A with some local celebrities and a question came from the audience ‘who is the greatest player ever Messi or Ronaldo?’ I was amazed that here in Stoke, no one else mentioned Stan even when I shouted out his name. No mention of Pele either. The world is a strange place. Recent bias I think it’s called. Another thing is the bias on stats as well, difference for a this generation is the athleticism of their team mates and the quality of the pitch’s and equipment used both for match day and training, with the recovery aids and diets etc. I hold no doubt that if the likes of Stan, puskus, distefano and Franklin had been around for this they would be more phenomenal than they were. And imagine if Maradona and best were kept of coke and booze, what they could do while half baked is still more than 99%of footballers now. Same with injuries of Ronaldo and van basten had the medical care now what difference would it have made to them. Van basten was just over 30 years ago and ronaldo 25 since then the recovery and repair for their injuries is half the time and half the stress. Them two with knees and ankles that worked would have retired nearly all of Seria A’s defenders in the from the late eighties to the early 00’s. Would Stanley Matthews have been though? He was ahead of his time in the way he looked after his body, which helped him play at a high level for so long. He wouldn't have that advantage in today's game. Like Michael Schumacher who nailed the fitness aspect before most other F1 drivers. I'm not saying Matthews isn't one of the greatest of all time - he most definitely is.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 11:39:55 GMT
I make this thread based on players like Matthews who is remembered as being great 80 years after his prime, but may be forgotten by the kids being born today Will Eusebio lose his status as a great? Pele is being questioned currently, players like Charlton forgotten? Is Banks immune You’d imagine Best would survive based on his lifestyle, but interested to hear your thoughts on household names that won’t be well known in the years to come Zola, Bergkamp, Inzaghi, van Nistelrooy, Drogba, Henry: any forward who existed during in the time, or immediately prior to the beginning of the Messi/Ronaldo era, who must be the only two players on the planet since early 2000s. They’ll all be forgotten in years to come. Great players are not forgotten. As for Matthews/DiStefano above. No comparison. DiStefano played and scored in 5 successive Euro finals for arguably the biggest club in the world, scoring in each. Ok the opposition weren't great but Matthews never performed on the biggest stages, European Cups/World cup etc. Did he play in the USA defeat, not sure?
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 2, 2022 11:44:52 GMT
Zola, Bergkamp, Inzaghi, van Nistelrooy, Drogba, Henry: any forward who existed during in the time, or immediately prior to the beginning of the Messi/Ronaldo era, who must be the only two players on the planet since early 2000s. They’ll all be forgotten in years to come. Great players are not forgotten. As for Matthews/DiStefano above. No comparison. DiStefano played and scored in 5 successive Euro finals for arguably the biggest club in the world, scoring in each. Ok the opposition weren't great but Matthews never performed on the biggest stages, European Cups/World cup ETD. Did he play in the USA defeat, not sure? I disagree. Each generation that passes will see fewer of them remembered. Drogba for example, was one of the best centre forwards the Premier League has had, but he hardly gets mentioned and it’s not been that long since he’s retired. I’d hazard a guess that far fewer people now know about Matthews and Di Stefano than 20 and 40 years ago. It’s inevitable in many ways, the younger generation will grow up hearing stories from their Dad/Mum and Grandad/Nan and mentions of players beyond that will be largely relegated to documentaries. I’m unlikely to ever talk about players like Matthews to any child I may have with any passion for the simple fact that I wasn’t there.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 11:48:30 GMT
The fact were discussing those players now shows they aren't forgotten. I doubt many of us ever saw Di Stefano or Puskas but know all about their legacy
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 2, 2022 11:59:20 GMT
The fact were discussing those players now shows they aren't forgotten. I doubt many of us ever saw Di Stefano or Puskas but know all about their legacy I didn’t say that they were forgotten, I said that fewer people know about them. It just seems pretty logical to me that as fewer and fewer people are alive that have seen them play/were child to those that have seen them play, that fewer stories will be told and they will eventually fade to black. As mentioned above, there is a time bias with rating players. A lot of these “best ever player” feeds that pop up will eventually just stop listing these players and then how will anyone remember?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 12:00:25 GMT
The fact were discussing those players now shows they aren't forgotten. I doubt many of us ever saw Di Stefano or Puskas but know all about their legacy I didn’t say that they were forgotten, I said that fewer people know about them. It just seems pretty logical to me that as fewer and fewer people are alive that have seen them play/were child to those that have seen them play, that fewer stories will be told and they will eventually fade to black. I still have nightmares about Tweed and Greenacre despite trying to forget them
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 2, 2022 12:19:00 GMT
Recent bias I think it’s called. Another thing is the bias on stats as well, difference for a this generation is the athleticism of their team mates and the quality of the pitch’s and equipment used both for match day and training, with the recovery aids and diets etc. I hold no doubt that if the likes of Stan, puskus, distefano and Franklin had been around for this they would be more phenomenal than they were. And imagine if Maradona and best were kept of coke and booze, what they could do while half baked is still more than 99%of footballers now. Same with injuries of Ronaldo and van basten had the medical care now what difference would it have made to them. Van basten was just over 30 years ago and ronaldo 25 since then the recovery and repair for their injuries is half the time and half the stress. Them two with knees and ankles that worked would have retired nearly all of Seria A’s defenders in the from the late eighties to the early 00’s. Would Stanley Matthews have been though? He was ahead of his time in the way he looked after his body, which helped him play at a high level for so long. He wouldn't have that advantage in today's game. Like Michael Schumacher who nailed the fitness aspect before most other F1 drivers. I'm not saying Matthews isn't one of the greatest of all time - he most definitely is. With a team of players at his fitness and athleticism levels levels he would probably played into his 60’s 😂
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jul 2, 2022 12:24:20 GMT
You only have to look at how few people remember Ole T Albrigtsen to realise that football is a fickle game.
One of the world's most talented football players in his day, yet now 99% of people wouldn't even recognise him if he delivered their post.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 12:25:39 GMT
You only have to look at how few people remember Ole T Albrigtsen to realise that football is a fickle game. One of the world's most talented football players in his day, yet now 99% of people wouldn't even recognise him if he delivered their post. Don't go disturbing Tel2U from his crypt
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Post by mattador78 on Jul 2, 2022 12:34:07 GMT
You only have to look at how few people remember Ole T Albrigtsen to realise that football is a fickle game. One of the world's most talented football players in his day, yet now 99% of people wouldn't even recognise him if he delivered their post. Like this
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2022 12:39:49 GMT
You only have to look at how few people remember Ole T Albrigtsen to realise that football is a fickle game. One of the world's most talented football players in his day, yet now 99% of people wouldn't even recognise him if he delivered their post. Like this To be fair why would the interviewer recognise him? I worked with a guy who.played for Everton and younger fans wouldn't know who he was, personally had no idea myself until looked him up . Because you're an ex player doesn't mean people in the street will know who you are. This is an ex Everton keeper, not a Bob Latchford etc .
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Post by baystokie on Jul 2, 2022 12:44:49 GMT
The fact were discussing those players now shows they aren't forgotten. I doubt many of us ever saw Di Stefano or Puskas but know all about their legacy I didn’t say that they were forgotten, I said that fewer people know about them. It just seems pretty logical to me that as fewer and fewer people are alive that have seen them play/were child to those that have seen them play, that fewer stories will be told and they will eventually fade to black. As mentioned above, there is a time bias with rating players. A lot of these “best ever player” feeds that pop up will eventually just stop listing these players and then how will anyone remember? You may well be right. I grew up in the 40s and 50s and remember taking my scrapbooks, programmes etc to matches to get them signed. I kept many of them so that my children, grandchildren etc would get to know that football did not start just a few years ago. Only recently, I showed some items to young footballers at a local amateur club and reactions varied from 'look at those boots' to 'don't they have crap haircuts' - ie no interest in the players and their achievements. Very sad - wondered why I bothered - still, I saw them and know how good they were and that's enough for me. t
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Post by kjpt140v on Jul 2, 2022 12:49:40 GMT
I make this thread based on players like Matthews who is remembered as being great 80 years after his prime, but may be forgotten by the kids being born today Will Eusebio lose his status as a great? Pele is being questioned currently, players like Charlton forgotten? Is Banks immune You’d imagine Best would survive based on his lifestyle, but interested to hear your thoughts on household names that won’t be well known in the years to come You can't forget if you didn't know.
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