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Post by mickstupp on Jun 17, 2022 21:35:50 GMT
Obviously when he's played He hasn’t though has he? Not really.
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Post by a on Jun 17, 2022 21:37:30 GMT
Obviously when he's played He hasn’t though has he? Not really. This
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 18, 2022 0:38:18 GMT
In a 46 game league season and at least 2 cup games? Is it heck regular. It’s less than half of the games available to play. And? Regular doesn't mean majority Thompson played 24 games this season just gone. He’s not a regular. He’s a squad player.
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Post by iamstokie on Jun 18, 2022 6:21:19 GMT
We’re been linked with Nyambe as well on Twitter , so we need two right backs ?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 18, 2022 6:44:10 GMT
We’re been linked with Nyambe as well on Twitter , so we need two right backs ? At the moment, maybe Wilmot is the back-up. God knows where Duhaney fits in. Can't see him ever getting on the bench. With Clarke's ability to play in the middle too, though (and that's where Hibs were apparently planning to use him next season) maybe it wouldn't be massively surprising to see Wilmot go if we could get money and bring in someone like Byrne too? MON doesn't seem a Wilmot fan. He barely played him as a central defender after Christmas, and he's not really a right-back. I think the twitter account saying there's something imminent with Nyambe is very dodgy.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jun 18, 2022 6:45:11 GMT
We’re been linked with Nyambe as well on Twitter , so we need two right backs ? At the moment, maybe Wilmot is the back-up. God knows where Duhaney fits in. Can't see him ever getting on the bench. With Clarke's ability to play in the middle too, though (and that's where Hibs were apparently planning to use him next season) maybe it wouldn't be massively surprising to se Wilmot go if we could get money and bring in someone like Byrne too? MON doesn't seem a Wilmot fan. He barely played him as a central defender, and he's not really a right-back. I think the twitter account saying there's something imminent with Nyambe is well very dodgy. I think Wilmot will be off and thought it for quite some time
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 18, 2022 6:48:33 GMT
At the moment, maybe Wilmot is the back-up. God knows where Duhaney fits in. Can't see him ever getting on the bench. With Clarke's ability to play in the middle too, though (and that's where Hibs were apparently planning to use him next season) maybe it wouldn't be massively surprising to se Wilmot go if we could get money and bring in someone like Byrne too? MON doesn't seem a Wilmot fan. He barely played him as a central defender, and he's not really a right-back. I think the twitter account saying there's something imminent with Nyambe is well very dodgy. I think Wilmot will be off and thought it for quite some time Yeah, he always seems to come out well in those analytics/data analyses, but I don't think he's for MON. And he's one of the few players who may be expendable we could get a fee for
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Post by Trouserdog on Jun 18, 2022 6:51:20 GMT
Forrester and Taylor are both going out on loan and rightly so. It’s not right at all. Forrester is more than good enough as he has shown playing better in this league than THB and Ostigard. It’s an absolute waste. I've not seen enough of Forrester or Taylor to claim either way whether they're ready or not, but League Two to Championship is a big jump quality-wise. These two lads are still very young, and we know how unforgiving the Stoke crowd can be. I think it's sensible to loan both to league One clubs and see how they do at that level before expecting them to be regulars here. pretty obvious that Flint and Jags will make way for them in 12 months time if they do the business in League One.
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Post by Trouserdog on Jun 18, 2022 6:55:57 GMT
I think Wilmot will be off and thought it for quite some time Yeah, he always seems to come out well in those analytics/data analyses, but I don't think he's for MON. And he's one of the few players who may be expendable we could get a fee for If we could get our money back on Wilmot I'd be tempted to take it. I don't think he's a bad CB, but I'm not convinced he'll ever be good enough for anything higher than mid-table Championship.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2022 6:59:59 GMT
Yeah, he always seems to come out well in those analytics/data analyses, but I don't think he's for MON. And he's one of the few players who may be expendable we could get a fee for If we could get our money back on Wilmot I'd be tempted to take it. I don't think he's a bad CB, but I'm not convinced he'll ever be good enough for anything higher than mid-table Championship. Even with Flint’s arrival he’s one of the best two we’ve got and should start imo. Not sure I’d back MON to get in anyone better.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 18, 2022 7:22:19 GMT
If we could get our money back on Wilmot I'd be tempted to take it. I don't think he's a bad CB, but I'm not convinced he'll ever be good enough for anything higher than mid-table Championship. Even with Flint’s arrival he’s one of the best two we’ve got and should start imo. Not sure I’d back MON to get in anyone better. I can't see that happening though, Rob. He was very reluctant to even start him in a 3 after the turn of the year, and it was pretty clear he was scouted very much to play in the wider roles in the three, as opposed to a 2. With Clarke here too, I'm not sure Wilmot would feature that highly in the pecking order with Souttar, Jagielka, Flint and him here - especially if he was sitting there as an asset we could get money for. Time well tell though - but I wouldn't be at all shocked if we saw another RB come in, in addition to Clarke, which would leave Clarke as an option in the middle too. Then Wimot really would be on the outside looking in. Could be completely wrong though, and he could start!
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2022 7:27:51 GMT
Even with Flint’s arrival he’s one of the best two we’ve got and should start imo. Not sure I’d back MON to get in anyone better. I can't see that happening though, Rob. He was very reluctant to even start him in a 3 after the turn of the year, and it was pretty clear he was scouted very much to play in the wider roles in the three, as opposed to a 2. With Clarke here too, I'm not sure Wilmot would feature that highly in the pecking order with Souttar, Jagielka, Flint and him here - especially if he was sitting there as an asset we could get money for. Time well tell though - but I wouldn't be at all shocked if we saw another RB come in, in addition to Clarke, which would leave Clarke as an option in the middle too. Then Wimot really would be on the outside looking in. Could be completely wrong though, and he could start! I guess that could work if another right back comes in, given Clarke is apparently quick. My worry is that he’s amassing a stockpile of ponderously slow centre halves, which is going to need us to essentially play a Pulis-style back eight to not get harpooned by any teams with any pace up front.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 18, 2022 7:40:27 GMT
I can't see that happening though, Rob. He was very reluctant to even start him in a 3 after the turn of the year, and it was pretty clear he was scouted very much to play in the wider roles in the three, as opposed to a 2. With Clarke here too, I'm not sure Wilmot would feature that highly in the pecking order with Souttar, Jagielka, Flint and him here - especially if he was sitting there as an asset we could get money for. Time well tell though - but I wouldn't be at all shocked if we saw another RB come in, in addition to Clarke, which would leave Clarke as an option in the middle too. Then Wimot really would be on the outside looking in. Could be completely wrong though, and he could start! I guess that could work if another right back comes in, given Clarke is apparently quick. My worry is that he’s amassing a stockpile of ponderously slow centre halves, which is going to need us to essentially play a Pulis-style back eight to not get harpooned by any teams with any pace up front. Pace is a bit of a concern. We don't really know what he's got in mind for Clarke though, or really what formation he's going to favour. I'm sure Wilmot would be good cover, getting 20 games at CB, and 10 at RB - but not sure that's what he signed up for last summer. I just don't think he'll be integral under MON and can't really envisage him starting , with Flint or Jagielka on the bench. If we're still wedded to a back three, it may be a different calculation. But I don't think we will be. I don't know how he's viewed by other clubs, in terms of getting our money back on him. But if we could, I think MON would be tempted. I notice a few of those amateur analytics gurus on twitter always mention him as someone whose name comes up very high in the data scouting. So it's hard to know if the professional scouting teams would concur and he'd be in demand. He was even mentioned in this as a possible Forest signing based on the data, so who knows? Could we really get a profit? That's the benefit of buying players of a good age anyway.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on Jun 18, 2022 9:03:46 GMT
Even with Flint’s arrival he’s one of the best two we’ve got and should start imo. Not sure I’d back MON to get in anyone better. I can't see that happening though, Rob. He was very reluctant to even start him in a 3 after the turn of the year, and it was pretty clear he was scouted very much to play in the wider roles in the three, as opposed to a 2. With Clarke here too, I'm not sure Wilmot would feature that highly in the pecking order with Souttar, Jagielka, Flint and him here - especially if he was sitting there as an asset we could get money for. Time well tell though - but I wouldn't be at all shocked if we saw another RB come in, in addition to Clarke, which would leave Clarke as an option in the middle too. Then Wimot really would be on the outside looking in. Could be completely wrong though, and he could start! We looked great when Wilmot was playing as a wide centre back earlier in the season but MON shat himself after a few bad results around autumn.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 18, 2022 9:07:08 GMT
It’s not right at all. Forrester is more than good enough as he has shown playing better in this league than THB and Ostigard. It’s an absolute waste. I've not seen enough of Forrester or Taylor to claim either way whether they're ready or not, but League Two to Championship is a big jump quality-wise. These two lads are still very young, and we know how unforgiving the Stoke crowd can be. I think it's sensible to loan both to league One clubs and see how they do at that level before expecting them to be regulars here. pretty obvious that Flint and Jags will make way for them in 12 months time if they do the business in League One. It’s just a waste imo. Both are 20, Taylor has a promotion season under his belt. Forrester would be really really highly thought of if he hadn’t come through with the best centre half this club will have a hand in producing since even maybe Neil Franklin. When Forrester played he looked a more assured player than the England u21 captain who if sold will probably go for up to 10 figures. As a squad player playing 20 games over all comps, Forrester is more than good enough for that and it will still help his development.
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Post by pushon on Jun 18, 2022 9:13:33 GMT
I can't see that happening though, Rob. He was very reluctant to even start him in a 3 after the turn of the year, and it was pretty clear he was scouted very much to play in the wider roles in the three, as opposed to a 2. With Clarke here too, I'm not sure Wilmot would feature that highly in the pecking order with Souttar, Jagielka, Flint and him here - especially if he was sitting there as an asset we could get money for. Time well tell though - but I wouldn't be at all shocked if we saw another RB come in, in addition to Clarke, which would leave Clarke as an option in the middle too. Then Wimot really would be on the outside looking in. Could be completely wrong though, and he could start! I guess that could work if another right back comes in, given Clarke is apparently quick. My worry is that he’s amassing a stockpile of ponderously slow centre halves, which is going to need us to essentially play a Pulis-style back eight to not get harpooned by any teams with any pace up front. I can't agree on your judgement of Wilmot, but agree substantially with your fear of a Pulis-like ponderous centre-halves collection.
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Post by scfc75 on Jun 18, 2022 9:14:17 GMT
I've not seen enough of Forrester or Taylor to claim either way whether they're ready or not, but League Two to Championship is a big jump quality-wise. These two lads are still very young, and we know how unforgiving the Stoke crowd can be. I think it's sensible to loan both to league One clubs and see how they do at that level before expecting them to be regulars here. pretty obvious that Flint and Jags will make way for them in 12 months time if they do the business in League One. It’s just a waste imo. Both are 20, Taylor has a promotion season under his belt. Forrester would be really really highly thought of if he hadn’t come through with the best centre half this club will have a hand in producing since even maybe Neil Franklin. When Forrester played he looked a more assured player than the England u21 captain who if sold will probably go for up to 10 figures. As a squad player playing 20 games over all comps, Forrester is more than good enough for that and it will still help his development. Genuinely don’t know the answer to this, but what would be better for a player’s development, 15 or so Champo games a season, or 40+ League 1 games?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 18, 2022 9:20:40 GMT
It’s just a waste imo. Both are 20, Taylor has a promotion season under his belt. Forrester would be really really highly thought of if he hadn’t come through with the best centre half this club will have a hand in producing since even maybe Neil Franklin. When Forrester played he looked a more assured player than the England u21 captain who if sold will probably go for up to 10 figures. As a squad player playing 20 games over all comps, Forrester is more than good enough for that and it will still help his development. Genuinely don’t know the answer to this, but what would be better for a player’s development, 15 or so Champo games a season, or 40+ League 1 games? I think for Forrester the latter as he’s ready for it. I’m not sure re Taylor. I can see why we would send him on loan for now. But I still think as a like for like back up to Souttar we couldn’t get anyone better. He’s close to a clone as you can get and better at the same age.
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Post by leicspotter on Jun 18, 2022 9:23:07 GMT
Of course he does but he should be doing it in the Championship. He should be playing at least 20 games in all competitions for us next season. If not more. It’s not happening. It’s clear what the plan is, Flint and Jags are here next season while Forrester and Taylor are away on loan. Hopefully they will improve and be ready to play regular championship football in 23/24.[/b] They need to come back ready to play in the Prem. surely?
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Jun 18, 2022 9:52:21 GMT
Why not be optimistic? If MON has learnt lessons and is getting the right players in that we need then why not look forward to the season ahead. How can you be optimistic with this dinosaur still in charge? He bought in THB and Wilmot last year who were both dogshit. He the presided to play Chester who was also dogshit. Why should you be confident with his signings and how the F##k you and the other O’Neill lovers can be optimistic is deluded. He’s a dinosaur outta of his depth and needs to go!!!!! Never said I loved O'Neill did i? What I am saying is if he has learnt lessons and is strengthening what we need then I'm optimistic for a good season and why not?
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 18, 2022 10:00:50 GMT
Genuinely don’t know the answer to this, but what would be better for a player’s development, 15 or so Champo games a season, or 40+ League 1 games? I think for Forrester the latter as he’s ready for it. I’m not sure re Taylor. I can see why we would send him on loan for now. But I still think as a like for like back up to Souttar we couldn’t get anyone better. He’s close to a clone as you can get and better at the same age. So you agree on the latter then, not the former? Forrester should be out on loan.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 18, 2022 10:03:54 GMT
I can't see that happening though, Rob. He was very reluctant to even start him in a 3 after the turn of the year, and it was pretty clear he was scouted very much to play in the wider roles in the three, as opposed to a 2. With Clarke here too, I'm not sure Wilmot would feature that highly in the pecking order with Souttar, Jagielka, Flint and him here - especially if he was sitting there as an asset we could get money for. Time well tell though - but I wouldn't be at all shocked if we saw another RB come in, in addition to Clarke, which would leave Clarke as an option in the middle too. Then Wimot really would be on the outside looking in. Could be completely wrong though, and he could start! We looked great when Wilmot was playing as a wide centre back earlier in the season but MON shat himself after a few bad results around autumn. As a right sided centre back in a three, Wilmot looked very decent. He’s more mobile than our other options and he can pass forward well. We’ve tried three at the back with donkeys on the side and it just doesn’t work. I’d be annoyed if a starting position isn’t Wilmot’s at the beginning of the year. He deserves his shot.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 18, 2022 10:18:26 GMT
I think for Forrester the latter as he’s ready for it. I’m not sure re Taylor. I can see why we would send him on loan for now. But I still think as a like for like back up to Souttar we couldn’t get anyone better. He’s close to a clone as you can get and better at the same age. So you agree on the latter then, not the former? Forrester should be out on loan. No I don’t think either should. We shouldn’t even be talking about Forrester going out on loan. There are merits certainly for Taylor but I still don’t think we should.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 18, 2022 10:25:24 GMT
So you agree on the latter then, not the former? Forrester should be out on loan. No I don’t think either should. We shouldn’t even be talking about Forrester going out on loan. There are merits certainly for Taylor but I still don’t think we should. But that’s not what you just said. You just said you thought the latter, that 40+ league 1 games is better for development.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jun 18, 2022 10:29:28 GMT
So what we're saying then is both of the manager's key signings last season Surridge and now Wilmot were not fit for purpose, oh and there's Doughty who he didnt play and got shipped out.
Great.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 18, 2022 10:30:02 GMT
No I don’t think either should. We shouldn’t even be talking about Forrester going out on loan. There are merits certainly for Taylor but I still don’t think we should. But that’s not what you just said. You just said you thought the latter, that 40+ league 1 games is better for development. I’ve read that post back and where the hell have I said that? I’ve said explicitly that I don’t think it would be for Forrester. It might be for Taylor but I still think he should be playing games here.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 18, 2022 10:31:24 GMT
No I don’t think either should. We shouldn’t even be talking about Forrester going out on loan. There are merits certainly for Taylor but I still don’t think we should. But that’s not what you just said. You just said you thought the latter, that 40+ league 1 games is better for development. Ah fuck I’ve read it again and it’s not the latter 😂😂what a twat sorry. Forrester should be staying here!!
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 18, 2022 10:59:25 GMT
Herein lies the issue of the current distribution of talent. Clubs at the top horde players that they will never play, bringing even greater disparities in the standard of football across leagues. Manchester City scour the World collecting young footballers like their Arab owners collect the cream of the equine world for their stables, BUT for them it does pay, I may be wrong but I’m sure that they generated more transfer income from the sales of youngsters who may have played the odd cup match or as a unused substitute and even players that had never got near to the first team than any club in Europe generated through the sales of first team regulars and youngsters. I think that this is one of the reasons plus their investment into the East Manchester economy that they skirt the FFP rules, they buy cheap give a world class football education then sell on for millions. They don’t or didn’t skirt ffp they breached it numerous times and got financial penalties. The authorities tried a sporting penalty but Man City we’re prepared to take it all the way and uefa bottled it. These regs are locking in the status quo unless they’re changed in a way that allows aspiration and mobility they’ve got to be challenged.
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Post by lordb on Jun 18, 2022 11:10:37 GMT
Genuinely don’t know the answer to this, but what would be better for a player’s development, 15 or so Champo games a season, or 40+ League 1 games? I think for Forrester the latter as he’s ready for it. I’m not sure re Taylor. I can see why we would send him on loan for now. But I still think as a like for like back up to Souttar we couldn’t get anyone better. He’s close to a clone as you can get and better at the same age. I think Taylor is better Forrester
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Post by southcoaststokie on Jun 18, 2022 11:17:14 GMT
Could someone tell me if he has signed yet, as I can’t see any mention of Harry Clarke on the Harry Clarke thread
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