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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 10:15:23 GMT
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Post by stoke1863 on Jun 21, 2022 10:15:23 GMT
I don’t really get this clamour for a bruiser of a ST. Maja has the physique to hold play up top and bring players in around him. Having some 6ft 5 brute up top who can’t pass and flicks the ball on to no one is of even less use. I’m no scholar of the game so honestly don’t know but who (and I know it’s not the job of the fans to pick out players) would you suggest that fits the mould you want? We need an option to go more direct when teams sit deep and we're not able to open them up Maja just isn't that he wins nothing in the air at all, he doesn't really do anything that the strikers we already have couldn't do. You're right I'm not going to dedicate my time to researching players to fit that mould and if they were household names we wouldn't be signing them. However if I was part of a team process costing £millions a year I think it would be perfectly reasonable to expect us to identify someone who does. My issue with that though it who are they winning headers for? If we’re playing a 3, which looks likely to happen, the runners are likely not going to be close enough to run on to the flicks. We just don’t really play that way at the moment and MON has made it clear he wants the ball on the floor more often than not and playing between the lines. The fact we don’t do that with nearly enough efficiency at the minute is another argument altogether but for the system we are being told we want to build, Maja suits the system in my view.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 10:17:14 GMT
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lordb likes this
Post by stoke1863 on Jun 21, 2022 10:17:14 GMT
From what I’ve seen, I don’t see a reason that Maja can’t be that player. He needs to improve but the signs were there for me. So you didn't see a player who won nothing in the air, wasn't very fast, wasn't particularly strong. Not really no, he seemed to have enough strength for his position, was admittedly a yard slower than I’d like and held the ball well and got players around him.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 10:25:31 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 10:25:31 GMT
We need an option to go more direct when teams sit deep and we're not able to open them up Maja just isn't that he wins nothing in the air at all, he doesn't really do anything that the strikers we already have couldn't do. You're right I'm not going to dedicate my time to researching players to fit that mould and if they were household names we wouldn't be signing them. However if I was part of a team process costing £millions a year I think it would be perfectly reasonable to expect us to identify someone who does. My issue with that though it who are they winning headers for? If we’re playing a 3, which looks likely to happen, the runners are likely not going to be close enough to run on to the flicks. We just don’t really play that way at the moment and MON has made it clear he wants the ball on the floor more often than not and playing between the lines. The fact we don’t do that with nearly enough efficiency at the minute is another argument altogether but for the system we are being told we want to build, Maja suits the system in my view. The strikers we have have both played their best football paired with Fletcher (who we kept for a season too long) therefore you replace with that type of player. You don't assemble a squad that can only play one way and our games last season prove that a functional target man is essential to the squad make up. The manager is on record as aknowledging we need a more physical presence to lead the line so hopefully he's seen that his preffered way of playing doesn't actually work very well in this league.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 21, 2022 10:26:06 GMT
We need an option to go more direct when teams sit deep and we're not able to open them up Maja just isn't that he wins nothing in the air at all, he doesn't really do anything that the strikers we already have couldn't do. You're right I'm not going to dedicate my time to researching players to fit that mould and if they were household names we wouldn't be signing them. However if I was part of a team process costing £millions a year I think it would be perfectly reasonable to expect us to identify someone who does. My issue with that though it who are they winning headers for? If we’re playing a 3, which looks likely to happen, the runners are likely not going to be close enough to run on to the flicks. We just don’t really play that way at the moment and MON has made it clear he wants the ball on the floor more often than not and playing between the lines. The fact we don’t do that with nearly enough efficiency at the minute is another argument altogether but for the system we are being told we want to build, Maja suits the system in my view. When Fletcher arrived, the clear goal was to have Campbell tuck in as and when we went long. Fletcher won headers for him, or for Powell. The long ball option is an important part of the game. If you don’t have it, you are ceding possession just as much as if you can’t pass it around the back. Fulham were so successful as they excelled at both.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 10:28:11 GMT
So you didn't see a player who won nothing in the air, wasn't very fast, wasn't particularly strong. Not really no, he seemed to have enough strength for his position, was admittedly a yard slower than I’d like and held the ball well and got players around him. You must have been watching a different player to me, seemed to be knocked of the ball with ease and that was one of his lesser problems.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 10:30:30 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 10:30:30 GMT
My issue with that though it who are they winning headers for? If we’re playing a 3, which looks likely to happen, the runners are likely not going to be close enough to run on to the flicks. We just don’t really play that way at the moment and MON has made it clear he wants the ball on the floor more often than not and playing between the lines. The fact we don’t do that with nearly enough efficiency at the minute is another argument altogether but for the system we are being told we want to build, Maja suits the system in my view. When Fletcher arrived, the clear goal was to have Campbell tuck in as and when we went long. Fletcher won headers for him, or for Powell. The long ball option is an important part of the game. If you don’t have it, you are ceding possession just as much as if you can’t pass it around the back. Fulham were so successful as they excelled at both. Yeah thinking Fletcher could still do it last season was a big misjudgement. He wasn't great from the get go and got steadily worse as the season went on.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 10:38:09 GMT
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Post by stoke1863 on Jun 21, 2022 10:38:09 GMT
My issue with that though it who are they winning headers for? If we’re playing a 3, which looks likely to happen, the runners are likely not going to be close enough to run on to the flicks. We just don’t really play that way at the moment and MON has made it clear he wants the ball on the floor more often than not and playing between the lines. The fact we don’t do that with nearly enough efficiency at the minute is another argument altogether but for the system we are being told we want to build, Maja suits the system in my view. When Fletcher arrived, the clear goal was to have Campbell tuck in as and when we went long. Fletcher won headers for him, or for Powell. The long ball option is an important part of the game. If you don’t have it, you are ceding possession just as much as if you can’t pass it around the back. Fulham were so successful as they excelled at both. And I’d take a 26 year old Fletcher in a heartbeat, he had a bit of everything. With the exception of his tendency to go for the spectacular when something more pragmatic was an option, he was perfect. But that type of striker doesn’t seem readily available and we don’t seem capable of recruiting one so, IMO, Maja works for 70% of what we’re trying to do. He’s not perfect and we should definitely look for another option to compliment the whole strike force but the way in which he’s being so freely slagged off on here seems a little harsh.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 10:40:59 GMT
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Post by stoke1863 on Jun 21, 2022 10:40:59 GMT
Not really no, he seemed to have enough strength for his position, was admittedly a yard slower than I’d like and held the ball well and got players around him. You must have been watching a different player to me, seemed to be knocked of the ball with ease and that was one of his lesser problems. He had some stinkers but overall I thought he looked like he had enough potential to make the move permanent. The fact we didn’t exercise the option at £3m? Shows we might have actually learnt from out mistakes. We’re in the position where we have to try and mould players into something that works. I don’t think we can afford, unless they’re on a free, a readymade perfect striker.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jun 21, 2022 10:48:16 GMT
He isn't worth a fee to us at all because he's not what we need. If there's room on the wage budget to speculate on a free then fine but we have no real need of a player with his attributes because signing him would leave us still requiring a bigger more physical forward with aerial prowess. I don’t really get this clamour for a bruiser of a ST. Maja has the physique to hold play up top and bring players in around him. Having some 6ft 5 brute up top who can’t pass and flicks the ball on to no one is of even less use. I’m no scholar of the game so honestly don’t know but who (and I know it’s not the job of the fans to pick out players) would you suggest that fits the mould you want? I thought his hold up play was the best thing about him and much better than Fletcher's. He knew when to release it and also his movement after releasing it was good offering options to the player with the ball. You don't have to be a 6 foot bruiser to be the player who holds up the ball waiting for midfielders to arrive.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 10:57:41 GMT
Post by apb1 on Jun 21, 2022 10:57:41 GMT
He is an intelligent player with good touch from what I've seen. Not the fastest but not really slow. I think he lacks aerial strength though. I'd be ok if he signed but we'd need an alternate brick shithouse type as well. Taylor D and Goodwin not up to first team are they?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 21, 2022 11:01:30 GMT
He is an intelligent player with good touch from what I've seen. Not the fastest but not really slow. I think he lacks aerial strength though. I'd be ok if he signed but we'd need an alternate brick shithouse type as well. Taylor D and Goodwin not up to first team are they? Delap appears to be headed out on loan this season - better late than never??
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Post by lordb on Jun 21, 2022 11:11:10 GMT
Not sure about Maja. Is he really the striker we need? Don’t think he is. I think not being sure is fair however it's also fair to see he's what we can get (probably) Ideally we get another striker in as well but we are not in an ideal space atm also ideally, & perhaps more likely (?), the extra work Campbell has put in the summer has the same affect on him that it did with Tymon last summer
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Post by lordb on Jun 21, 2022 11:13:46 GMT
From what I’ve seen, I don’t see a reason that Maja can’t be that player. He needs to improve but the signs were there for me. So you didn't see a player who won nothing in the air, wasn't very fast, wasn't particularly strong. going to disagree re his strength, thought he was noticeably strong against bigger CB's several times he's not an out & out target man that's for sure
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 11:15:45 GMT
apb1 likes this
Post by lordb on Jun 21, 2022 11:15:45 GMT
He is an intelligent player with good touch from what I've seen. Not the fastest but not really slow. I think he lacks aerial strength though. I'd be ok if he signed but we'd need an alternate brick shithouse type as well. Taylor D and Goodwin not up to first team are they? Taylor isnt big & strong either, Goodwin deffo is but look miles off the standard, surprised he's got a new deal tbh Hopefully he progresses
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 11:23:17 GMT
Post by apb1 on Jun 21, 2022 11:23:17 GMT
He is an intelligent player with good touch from what I've seen. Not the fastest but not really slow. I think he lacks aerial strength though. I'd be ok if he signed but we'd need an alternate brick shithouse type as well. Taylor D and Goodwin not up to first team are they? Taylor isnt big & strong either, Goodwin deffo is but look miles off the standard, surprised he's got a new deal tbh Hopefully he progresses Fair enough but he looks more like a central striker whenever I've seen him play, if that makes sense.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 11:24:24 GMT
Post by lordb on Jun 21, 2022 11:24:24 GMT
Taylor isnt big & strong either, Goodwin deffo is but look miles off the standard, surprised he's got a new deal tbh Hopefully he progresses Fair enough but he looks more like a central striker whenever I've seen him play, if that makes sense. Taylor? yes straight down the middle
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:02:34 GMT
Post by nottsover60 on Jun 21, 2022 13:02:34 GMT
It’s more about them holding the ball all up and allowing Tymon and the new lad out wide to push on and get crosses into the danger area. They don’t have to be 6.5” more a physical threat, a Peter Thorne type player with perhaps an extra yard of pace would be perfect…… They don't have to be 6'5" but equally it is necessary that they are competent in the air as it's a weapon we're sadly lacking in our forward ranks. Brown should be the one who is the aerial target. I disagree with winning flick ons being important as most of the flick ons we win go straight to opposing defenders as we have no one in advance of the main striker.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:23:13 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 13:23:13 GMT
They don't have to be 6'5" but equally it is necessary that they are competent in the air as it's a weapon we're sadly lacking in our forward ranks. Brown should be the one who is the aerial target. I disagree with winning flick ons being important as most of the flick ons we win go straight to opposing defenders as we have no one in advance of the main striker. Where have the fick on's come from? surely that's just one option from winning aerial duels. Brown's outings as a central striker have been rather painful to watch, his execution of just about everything is quite unpredictable so very hard to play off. Both Brown and Campbell's best football has come playing off Fletcher. Seems that you want to just carry on doing what we did last season and hope for different outcomes. We needed an option to go more direct at home when teams came and sat deep and Fletcher just wasn't up to it. By what he's said MON seems like he's taken that on board but still we havent been linked with a target man type forward. If he wants Maja in addition to that and he's available for free that would be ok but it needs to be as well as, not instead of.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:26:44 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 21, 2022 13:26:44 GMT
I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw something in him. I can't believe the negativity on here towards him. For a young player recovering from serious injury I thought he showed plenty of potential for the fee which we will have to pay. I was worried he might want to return to Sunderland when they got promoted. He had more about him than Campbell last season. I think it’s the nature of the fan base at the minute. There are very few who are relatively neutral about the club and it’s players. We've been shit for what feels like an age and people seem to want an instant success, especially in the forward positions but we can’t spend the money we once had and the manager needs to get more out of his big signings. But, any player that’s come in and not done a Baker is being thrown to the wolves. Unless of course they leave, at which point they become the one that got away. I'm not sure its even instant success, some decent signs of progress and some sign that the manager knows what he's doing would go a long way. The tall striker thing came from a MON interview.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:43:34 GMT
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Post by questionable on Jun 21, 2022 13:43:34 GMT
Another non scoring forward is exactly what we don’t need if we have any ambitions whatsoever.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:49:49 GMT
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jun 21, 2022 13:49:49 GMT
Another non scoring forward is exactly what we don’t need if we have any ambitions whatsoever. I think he’ll sign. Hopefully he can push on but at the moment should be just a squad player. There were signs last season that there’s a player there just didn’t see enough of it.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:52:28 GMT
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Post by nonameface on Jun 21, 2022 13:52:28 GMT
If we need to go long, Powell can play target man pretty much as well as anyone in this division. Instead, we should probably look to play the ball down the channels more and if the opposition are compact to keep playing the ball wide getting crosses in.
In Brown and Campbell we have two players that are strong, direct, fast and skillful enough (enough being the keyword) to attempt that instead of long balls down the middle; which most centre backs in this division will see as their bread and butter, even against some of the best target men.
Maja for the right price would be a reasonable option as the main man with his link up play if we play Brown, Campbell and others higher up the pitch than they were this season just gone.
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Post by lordb on Jun 21, 2022 13:54:42 GMT
Another non scoring forward is exactly what we don’t need if we have any ambitions whatsoever. he has a record of scoring goals, just didn't do it here frustrating however he's deffo a finisher If fitness was part of the reason he didn't score that can be resolved
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:57:07 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 13:57:07 GMT
I think it’s the nature of the fan base at the minute. There are very few who are relatively neutral about the club and it’s players. We've been shit for what feels like an age and people seem to want an instant success, especially in the forward positions but we can’t spend the money we once had and the manager needs to get more out of his big signings. But, any player that’s come in and not done a Baker is being thrown to the wolves. Unless of course they leave, at which point they become the one that got away. I'm not sure its even instant success, some decent signs of progress and some sign that the manager knows what he's doing would go a long way. The tall striker thing came from a MON interview. Surely now though we're in the realms of instant success being a requirement for the manager to keep his job any further than this coming season. Eventually you come to a stage where it's shit or get off the pot. Signs of progress just won't wash with me this time.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:58:26 GMT
Post by Squeekster on Jun 21, 2022 13:58:26 GMT
At 23 still young as well.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 13:59:15 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 13:59:15 GMT
Another non scoring forward is exactly what we don’t need if we have any ambitions whatsoever. he has a record of scoring goals, just didn't do it here frustrating however he's deffo a finisher If fitness was part of the reason he didn't score that can be resolved Will Grigg has a record of scoring goals in league One too. Shall we sign him or for that matter Gregory or Vokes
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 14:05:04 GMT
Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 21, 2022 14:05:04 GMT
If we need to go long, Powell can play target man pretty much as well as anyone in this division. Instead, we should probably look to play the ball down the channels more and if the opposition are compact to keep playing the ball wide getting crosses in. In Brown and Campbell we have two players that are strong, direct, fast and skillful enough (enough being the keyword) to attempt that instead of long balls down the middle; which most centre backs in this division will see as their bread and butter, even against some of the best target men. Maja for the right price would be a reasonable option as the main man with his link up play if we play Brown, Campbell and others higher up the pitch than they were this season just gone. I think that ignores the nature of this manager which is more to have his wide forwards working back to protect the WB's than have the WB's get up the pitch early to allow the wide forwards to get closer to the central striker.
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 14:13:40 GMT
Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 21, 2022 14:13:40 GMT
I'm not sure its even instant success, some decent signs of progress and some sign that the manager knows what he's doing would go a long way. The tall striker thing came from a MON interview. Surely now though we're in the realms of instant success being a requirement for the manager to keep his job any further than this coming season. Eventually you come to a stage where it's shit or get off the pot. Signs of progress just won't wash with me this time. Yeh it has to be top six at least, not sure it could be considered instant though given he been boring us for so long
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 14:21:13 GMT
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 21, 2022 14:21:13 GMT
I wonder what the Director of Football's thoughts on this potential transfer are in their regular 'Transfer Committee' meeting? Is the manager having to come up with a report on his loan, and a plan on how he is going to fit into the tactical system of choice going forwards?
Are the red flags being flagged up or is the signing just being waved through by the owners?
Just asking for a friend...
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Maja
Jun 21, 2022 14:27:56 GMT
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Post by stoke1863 on Jun 21, 2022 14:27:56 GMT
I think it’s the nature of the fan base at the minute. There are very few who are relatively neutral about the club and it’s players. We've been shit for what feels like an age and people seem to want an instant success, especially in the forward positions but we can’t spend the money we once had and the manager needs to get more out of his big signings. But, any player that’s come in and not done a Baker is being thrown to the wolves. Unless of course they leave, at which point they become the one that got away. I'm not sure its even instant success, some decent signs of progress and some sign that the manager knows what he's doing would go a long way. The tall striker thing came from a MON interview. Fair enough re the tall striker, I missed that one. I agree that MON has to get it together this season though. We’ve looked so promising in the early stages to then completely fall off a cliff. The hope I’m hanging onto is that we’re not getting turned over and with a few adjustments and a bit of luck we’ll make something happen this season. I understand why people have had enough but I’m optimistic that we’re on the cusp of getting it right. That said, if we’re not top 6 this season he needs to move on or upstairs.
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