|
|
Post by Boothen on Jun 21, 2022 6:08:32 GMT
The French can apologise all they want, but until they admit what the actual real problem is and start to address it publicly any apologies are meaningless and shit this will happen again and again. They'll never publicly admit what the problem is though, because if they did Paris would burn. So when it does happen again, and it will, expect the blame to be laid squarely at the feet of everyone but the actual perpetrators.
|
|
|
|
Post by werrington on Jun 21, 2022 6:13:33 GMT
The French can apologise all they want, but until they admit what the actual real problem is and start to address it publicly any apologies are meaningless and shit this will happen again and again. They'll never publicly admit what the problem is though, because if they did Paris would burn. So when it does happen again, and it will, expect the blame to be laid squarely at the feet of everyone but the actual perpetrators. It’s the elephant in the room that nobody in the media will tackle |
|
|
|
Post by Silkystoke on Jun 21, 2022 7:32:25 GMT
I live in Bagnolet in the 93 region of France, just 10/12 mins away from saint denis, it’s a shithole and one of the worse places around for crime..!!!
I messaged all my friends about this and told them to stay away, unfortunately one of my friends got battered and lost everything he was carrying.:
The French police are a disgrace, no plans were put into place that day or evening apart from looking after the tourist attractions.
My neighbour is a policeman and told me after 23h they don’t enter Saint Denis..
No Football should be played at that ground if they are not French.
Disgraceful behavior and someone should be punished…
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 21, 2022 11:22:15 GMT
Corrupt bastards: metro.co.uk/2022/06/21/uefa-doubles-down-on-blame-of-liverpool-fans-over-stade-de-france-fiasco-16863398/UEFA doubles down on blame of Liverpool fans over Stade de France fiasco in shock senate hearing ... UEFA has doubled down on its choice to blame Liverpool fans for the carnage which occurred at the Stade de France last month at the Champions League final between the Reds and Real Madrid. Liverpool fans including women and children who arrived early for the match were tear gassed by French riot police, forced into dangerous crushes outside locked turnstiles and were denied entry to the stadium despite showing valid tickets. The European football governing body has already apologised to fans of both clubs for the poor running of the match, but reverted to blaming supporters in a shocking hearing at the French senate on Tuesday morning as part of its inquiry into a fiasco which has dominated news headline in France for almost a month. The organisation’s CEO of events Martin Kallen made a series of claims about fake tickets, ticketless fans gathering outside the stadium, and poor behaviour of supporters without providing any sort of evidence. ‘Risk evaluation before the match told us that there was a high risk of a pitch invasion and a high risk of a lot of fake tickets,’ Kallen said, without providing any detail about who gave UEFA this information. There is no example in modern history of Liverpool supporters conducting a pitch invasion. UEFA’s representative to the senate also engaged in what appeared to be an attempt to re-write history. Despite no forgery problems being reported before, during or after Liverpool’s previous Champions League final appearances in 2018 in Kyiv and 2019 in Madrid, Kallen claimed there were. ‘We were warned a lot of people without tickets would try to enter the stadium,’ Kallen also claimed. ‘In the past two finals with Liverpool there were fans who wanted to get into the stadium with fake or no tickets. We knew that in advance.’ Again, Kallen provided no evidence to support UEFA’s argument. |
|
|
|
Post by JoeinOz on Jun 21, 2022 13:31:25 GMT
Corrupt bastards: metro.co.uk/2022/06/21/uefa-doubles-down-on-blame-of-liverpool-fans-over-stade-de-france-fiasco-16863398/UEFA doubles down on blame of Liverpool fans over Stade de France fiasco in shock senate hearing ... UEFA has doubled down on its choice to blame Liverpool fans for the carnage which occurred at the Stade de France last month at the Champions League final between the Reds and Real Madrid. Liverpool fans including women and children who arrived early for the match were tear gassed by French riot police, forced into dangerous crushes outside locked turnstiles and were denied entry to the stadium despite showing valid tickets. The European football governing body has already apologised to fans of both clubs for the poor running of the match, but reverted to blaming supporters in a shocking hearing at the French senate on Tuesday morning as part of its inquiry into a fiasco which has dominated news headline in France for almost a month. The organisation’s CEO of events Martin Kallen made a series of claims about fake tickets, ticketless fans gathering outside the stadium, and poor behaviour of supporters without providing any sort of evidence. ‘Risk evaluation before the match told us that there was a high risk of a pitch invasion and a high risk of a lot of fake tickets,’ Kallen said, without providing any detail about who gave UEFA this information. There is no example in modern history of Liverpool supporters conducting a pitch invasion. UEFA’s representative to the senate also engaged in what appeared to be an attempt to re-write history. Despite no forgery problems being reported before, during or after Liverpool’s previous Champions League final appearances in 2018 in Kyiv and 2019 in Madrid, Kallen claimed there were. ‘We were warned a lot of people without tickets would try to enter the stadium,’ Kallen also claimed. ‘In the past two finals with Liverpool there were fans who wanted to get into the stadium with fake or no tickets. We knew that in advance.’ Again, Kallen provided no evidence to support UEFA’s argument. That's just a political move. If they admit liability they'll have to give loads of compensation out |
|
|
|
Post by str8outtahampton on Jun 21, 2022 13:49:37 GMT
I live in Bagnolet in the 93 region of France, just 10/12 mins away from saint denis, it’s a shithole and one of the worse places around for crime..!!! I messaged all my friends about this and told them to stay away, unfortunately one of my friends got battered and lost everything he was carrying.: The French police are a disgrace, no plans were put into place that day or evening apart from looking after the tourist attractions. My neighbour is a policeman and told me after 23h they don’t enter Saint Denis.. No Football should be played at that ground if they are not French. Disgraceful behavior and someone should be punished… A good friend of mine lives in the Val d'Oise Department, which of course you know borders Seine-St Denis. Her house cannot be more than 15 or so km from the stadium, but it's a world away from the challenges faced in St Denis. Her view chimes with yours. What is more baffling is why the police (appear to) offer protection for other events, eg 6 Nations rugby. I suspect it is a combination of some or all the following, but would be interested in a local view: - evening kick off - football fans, and especially English fans, are still lazily portrayed as hooligans. That doesn't surprise me, and partly because there have been issues in France dating back to at least Leeds v Bayern at the European Cup Final in 1975. That is a narrative that is easily spun, whether or not the behaviour of English fans has contributed to problems - that then gives the authorities an excuse to let rank and file officers off the leash. Obviously I don't know whether that happened on this occasion, but it wouldn't surprise me. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 21, 2022 14:25:58 GMT
: "I don't ever want to come back to Paris if we are going to be treated in the same way again in future. There have been so many lies about what happened from those in power here."
"The pre-filter check was chaotic with very young and inexperienced stewards who didn't know what they were doing. Many local young adults tried to pass the stewards which was frightening."
"There where supporters in wheelchairs forced to wait in dangerous queues for an hour. One was allowed through the turnstiles but his companion was not. It was a very chaotic situation."
"I started to receive messages saying disabled people were being tear gassed and were terrified. Some feared for their lives."
"A steward told us there were no lights in the disabled toilets. He told me to use the torch on my phone to go to the toilet."
"It was only thanks to the great behaviour of Liverpool fans that a catastrophe was avoided. Nobody in a position of power came to help disabled fans."
"A 14-year-old disabled fan has burns from the effects of tear gas. He went to the match with his Dad and was excited, but was left terrified."
"There was a disabled fan who attended the match with his elderly father. He was attacked by a gang of locals and had his belongings stolen."
"A disabled woman who was being squashed against the gates had her cries for help went unaided. It was Liverpool fans who saved her."
"A fan with cardiac issues was attacked by police officers and tear gassed."
"A young boy with multiple sclerosis was attacked three times with tear gas. These are just a few stories of the many we have had. These have been excluded in the Michel Cadot report."
"Shocking treatment was done to men, women and children with disabilities. They were treated like animals. This a shame on the authorities."
"Locals attacked us. It was terrifying, and even more terrifying for those in wheelchairs."
"For me and my wife this experience was terrifying. It was the worst experience I've had following Liverpool FC. We were totally abandoned by the authorities after the match."
"The authorities are responsible for everything which happened at the Stade de France. No supporter, of Liverpool or Real Madrid was at fault. The authorities must accept this responsibility, or the Olympic Games cannot take place in Paris."
"If no changes are made by the authorities, I would advise wheelchair users to avoid any event at the Stade de France."
"Gérald Darmanin has brought shame on France and the French government. His lies made things so much worse. He should apologise or resign. His lies have reminded us of those after Hillsborough. He should be ashamed."
"I thank you Mr. Lafon and Mr. Buffon for listening to disabled supporters. You must find the truth."
"Until the truth is known, we will not stop."
Ted Morris
Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association
This is the first time since the match was moved to Paris on 25 February, or since Liverpool Football Club qualified to the final on 3 May, that a government institution has agreed to hear from Liverpool fans. We thank you for this."
"As foreign people invited to speak in your Senate, we are not here to seek some sort of revenge. Firstly, we want to explain the truth of what happened. But we also want to help things improve in the future."
"It is important to stress that not just English or British people have been affected by the failures of French authorities and the subsequent attempts to shift blame onto innocent fans. Liverpool is a global club with fans all over the world."
"The events at the Stade de France on 28 May have been reported from the USA to Australia and most countries in between. This is a truly international issue."
"The mayor of the 12th arrondissement wrote to the Spirit of Shankly and Liverpool’s city leaders to compliment the exemplary behaviour of all fans at the fan park, but even here policing was heavy-handed."
"Merseyside police force stated in their pre-match report that, and I quote 'for the past ten years Liverpool supporters have been extremely well behaved in Europe. They have not been involved in any incidents of disorder.'"
"Liverpool fans had travelled across Europe this season, to Spain, Portugal and Italy with zero arrests, zero known risk supporters, zero preventive arrests and zero ejections from stadia. Over 25,000 fans showed exemplary behaviour all season long."
"Why was the good behaviour record of Liverpool fans ignored? The police were stuck in the 1980s and believed lies about the Hillsborough disaster."
"On what basis can Gérald Darmanin possibly make this claim? There is no evidence for it. He and the police are hiding behind out-dated, ignorant and downright offensive views about football fans to try and cover up their own desperate failures."
"To hear French authorities use similar lies to those used by the British all those years ago once again in 2022, about fans arriving late, or with fake tickets, or drunk, has caused an immense amount of shock, anger and pain."
"The Cadot report described 30 to 40,000 Liverpool fans travelling to Paris without tickets. Fans are perfectly entitled to travel to the host city in order to spend their money as tourists and be a part of the atmosphere."
"If there were 40k ticketless fans, plus the 20k official ticket holders, plus at least 15k who purchased UEFA allocated tickets in neutral zones, that would mean that nearly 75k were at the stadium. That is absurd, untrue and scurrilous."
"The frankly ludicrous number of fake tickets the interior minister suggested had been captured must also be debunked."
"The authorities abandoned the pre-filter check and allowed any of the local young adults through around the outside of the stadium."
"150 to 200 police officers lined up in full riot gear in front of Liverpool fans inside the stadium shortly before full-time, in a blatant attempt at provocation. Pitch invasions have never been a part of Liverpool culture."
"Why was there a complete lack of signage between the RER station and the stadium?
"Why are the transport figures used to make claims about fans unclear, unsubstantiated, and changing day by day?"
"Why was the French Football Federation’s request to split fans into two separate pre-filter queues ignored?
Why did the authorities not try at any point to communicate with fans about the problems and possible solutions?"
"France chose to host this prestigious football match and to organise it at the Stade de France. Fans paid up to €670 for a match ticket. The management of the game was completely flawed."
"Failures by the French state leaving some fans traumatised, and others with serious injuries."
"These fans were indiscriminately tear gassed and beaten. Many feared for their lives in dangerous crushes, and some left the vicinity for their own safety."
"How did the authorities get the management of this game so wrong? Why was their first instinct to blame fans, with a lie about late arrivals broadcast on the big screens at the Stade de France?
"The hooligans that French police spent months preparing for from Liverpool simply do not exist. They did not alter their tactics when no hooligans arrived, and instead treated families, children, and people with disabilities like criminals."
"Liverpool fans behaved calmly and ensured there were no deaths outside the Stade de France."
"There must be a full independent and transparent investigation so the world can once more have confidence in the ability for France to hold global sporting events. Without such an investigation, the world cannot have that confidence."
"We demand a full apology and a retraction of the lies."
Joe Blott
Spirit of Shankley
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 21, 2022 14:28:20 GMT
Corrupt bastards: metro.co.uk/2022/06/21/uefa-doubles-down-on-blame-of-liverpool-fans-over-stade-de-france-fiasco-16863398/UEFA doubles down on blame of Liverpool fans over Stade de France fiasco in shock senate hearing ... UEFA has doubled down on its choice to blame Liverpool fans for the carnage which occurred at the Stade de France last month at the Champions League final between the Reds and Real Madrid. Liverpool fans including women and children who arrived early for the match were tear gassed by French riot police, forced into dangerous crushes outside locked turnstiles and were denied entry to the stadium despite showing valid tickets. The European football governing body has already apologised to fans of both clubs for the poor running of the match, but reverted to blaming supporters in a shocking hearing at the French senate on Tuesday morning as part of its inquiry into a fiasco which has dominated news headline in France for almost a month. The organisation’s CEO of events Martin Kallen made a series of claims about fake tickets, ticketless fans gathering outside the stadium, and poor behaviour of supporters without providing any sort of evidence. ‘Risk evaluation before the match told us that there was a high risk of a pitch invasion and a high risk of a lot of fake tickets,’ Kallen said, without providing any detail about who gave UEFA this information. There is no example in modern history of Liverpool supporters conducting a pitch invasion. UEFA’s representative to the senate also engaged in what appeared to be an attempt to re-write history. Despite no forgery problems being reported before, during or after Liverpool’s previous Champions League final appearances in 2018 in Kyiv and 2019 in Madrid, Kallen claimed there were. ‘We were warned a lot of people without tickets would try to enter the stadium,’ Kallen also claimed. ‘In the past two finals with Liverpool there were fans who wanted to get into the stadium with fake or no tickets. We knew that in advance.’ Again, Kallen provided no evidence to support UEFA’s argument. That's just a political move. If they admit liability they'll have to give loads of compensation out They don't have to 'admit' to anything at this stage. UEFA were giving 'evidence' (bare faced lies) to the French Senate this morning. It's the fans' turn at 15.30, live link above. |
|
|
|
Post by Silkystoke on Jun 22, 2022 13:50:08 GMT
I live in Bagnolet in the 93 region of France, just 10/12 mins away from saint denis, it’s a shithole and one of the worse places around for crime..!!! I messaged all my friends about this and told them to stay away, unfortunately one of my friends got battered and lost everything he was carrying.: The French police are a disgrace, no plans were put into place that day or evening apart from looking after the tourist attractions. My neighbour is a policeman and told me after 23h they don’t enter Saint Denis.. No Football should be played at that ground if they are not French. Disgraceful behavior and someone should be punished… A good friend of mine lives in the Val d'Oise Department, which of course you know borders Seine-St Denis. Her house cannot be more than 15 or so km from the stadium, but it's a world away from the challenges faced in St Denis. Her view chimes with yours. What is more baffling is why the police (appear to) offer protection for other events, eg 6 Nations rugby. I suspect it is a combination of some or all the following, but would be interested in a local view: - evening kick off - football fans, and especially English fans, are still lazily portrayed as hooligans. That doesn't surprise me, and partly because there have been issues in France dating back to at least Leeds v Bayern at the European Cup Final in 1975. That is a narrative that is easily spun, whether or not the behaviour of English fans has contributed to problems - that then gives the authorities an excuse to let rank and file officers off the leash. Obviously I don't know whether that happened on this occasion, but it wouldn't surprise me. All but French teams will be targeted but it all the depends on the teams name and how big they are,that’s it… These gangs will target certain groups, what fans are wearing, there phones etc etc, normally teenagers will work for them and then telephone them where the fans are ..!! It’s all well planned. In a way the police help them as well by giving the fans a route they should walk, it’s a joke..!!!! They have razors, knives and even barbed wire with them and even taped to there wrists..!!! Also I’ve now heard that X amount of police officers went home after the final whistle( 90 mins ) went because they don’t get overtime payments..!! Even saying that, if the police were there they would of been outnumbered by gangs, it’s absolutely shocking and nothing gets done about it … What’s really sad is that people/ tourists/ fans whatever will ever come to Paris .. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 22, 2022 14:36:31 GMT
(Thankfully) it seems that the senate don't believe a word of the bullshit that they've been fed so far ... A senator asking a question apologises to Liverpool fans and says that explanations must be given. "When the authorities in France accuse Liverpool fans of hooliganism, that is unbelievable" says a senator. Patrick Kanner, senator and former socialist French sports minister, thanks "our British and Spanish" friends for their "shocking and apocalyptic" accounts of what happened at the Stade de France. Senator Patrick Kanner: "I believe that the demand from our English friends to bring Gérald Darmanin's version of events into the light is useful. Perhaps we should interrogate him again. There are blatantly things to be discovered." One was addressing Joe Blott, said they could only apologise for what happened in Paris. He also said that after the Heysel disaster, and Liverpool's work on completely eradicating hooliganism, he found it incredible (<astounding>) that the French interior minister and sports minister mentioned hooliganism in their language. Another senator asked if there could be another questioning/interrogation of the interior minister in light of all the testimonies. |
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 22, 2022 14:46:39 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Jun 22, 2022 14:52:24 GMT
France/Paris has to be concerned re any possibility of losing or harming their Olympics
It's abundantly clear - beyond that tbh, am struggling to find words strong enough - that not only we're the authorities utterly useless on the day they have also repeatedly told bare faced whopping lies & that no sensible person (including other French authorities & politicians) don't believe them
The only option they have is to either force resignations/sack those in charge along with appropriate apology & statement confirming what was said before was bullshit
|
|
|
|
Post by Paul Spencer on Jun 22, 2022 15:04:12 GMT
French press ... www.lefigaro.fr/flash-sport/chaos-du-stade-de-france-au-senat-les-supporters-de-liverpool-appellent-darmanin-a-demissionner-20220621Heard by the Senate on Tuesday in Paris, Liverpool fans demanded the departure of the Minister of the Interior. The case is not over. Far from there. Liverpool supporters heard in the Senate on the security fiasco of the Champions League final called on Tuesday Gérald Darmanin to resign, castigating the " endless lies " of the Minister of the Interior, who had initially pointed the finger at the responsibility of the English fans. “ You, Sir, have humiliated the inhabitants of Paris. Your endless lies and false stories have only amplified our trauma , ”said Ted Morris, representative of the Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association, present at the Stade de France on the day of this final disrupted by serious malfunctions. in the organization. " I ask you to withdraw your savage and baseless accusations and, if you do not have the decency to do so, you must choose the most honorable solution and resign ", he launched in front of the senatorial delegation which board on these incidents. In the hours following the meeting, Gérald Darmanin had castigated the English supporters, presenting the thesis of a " massive, industrial and organized fraud of counterfeit tickets " creating disorder. Then, during his hearing before the Senate on June 1, the Minister of the Interior had sketched out a mea culpa while maintaining the controversial figure of " 35,000 supporters " provided, according to him, with falsified tickets or without tickets. Before the senators on Tuesday afternoon, Ted Morris read the testimonies of several disabled supporters " traumatized " by these incidents, victims of robberies or attacks by local gangs in Saint-Denis or sprayed with tear gas by the forces of the 'order. " It's the most terrifying experience I've ever had in Europe with Liverpool ," he said. “ I will never forgive the authorities who are totally responsible ,” he continued, recalling the trauma experienced in 1989 by Liverpool in Hillsborough, where a gigantic crowd movement had caused the death of 97 supporters. Member of the " Spirit of Shankly " supporters group , Joe Blott also asked the French authorities to " withdraw " their accusations and present " a full apology ", pointing to France's damaged reputation as a host country of major sporting events. . “ To ensure the safety of supporters at the Rugby World Cup (in 2023, editor’s note) and at the Olympic Games (2024) in the coming years, a full, independent and transparent investigation is needed so that the world regains confidence in the ability of France to organize planetary sporting events ”, he asserted. www.lequipe.fr/Football/Actualites/Incidents-au-stade-de-france-les-supporters-de-liverpool-ne-pardonneront-jamais/1339709Representatives of supporters, mostly English, gave important and chilling testimony, during their hearing this Tuesday afternoon by the Senate, on the fiasco of the organization of the Champions League final between Liverpool and Real Madrid, at the Stade de France at the end of May. We don't know if it was the presence of the fan representatives in front of him that made him say that. But from the start of the debates, François-Noël Buffet, president of the Senate law commission, decided in one sentence: "Let's say things clearly and clearly, because things are now obvious: English supporters have not been the cause of the incidents. The message is unequivocal and undermines the version of the government, authorities and authorities. This Tuesday afternoon, it was the turn of the supporters to be auditioned at the Luxembourg Palace, three weeks after the launch of the investigations. And you have to believe that, as the saying goes, the best came in the end. For an hour and a half, the “first victims” of the Saint-Denis fiasco delivered “damning” testimonies , to quote several senators present. The resignation of Gérald Darmanin demanded, the maintenance of the 2024 Olympics in Paris questioned The speech, in particular, by Ted Morris, chairman of the Liverpool Disabled Supporters Association, was very powerful. Poignant, even. "Since May 28 (date of the Champions League final), my vision of Paris has not been the same, " he said. It's the worst experience, the greatest scenes of distress seen in my entire life. I don't want to come here again until things change. He then illustrated his remarks by quoting the story of many affected members: disabled people crushed against the railings, children and women in wheelchairs gassed, an individual pushed to the ground and gasping for air, an autistic boy separated from his father. A total of 9,000 complaints are said to have been passed on by supporters to the Liverpool club. A report will be issued once they have all been compiled. “Fans were calling us to complain and denounce the chaos. They were scared. And nobody helped us. Everyone remains traumatized, insisted Morris. What was supposed to be a fantastic family trip to Paris turned into a horrifying experience. The treatment given was shocking. We were treated like animals. This must be a disgrace to the authorities. We felt completely abandoned. It was truly terrifying and the authorities will never be forgiven for what they did. They must accept the responsibility that is theirs, otherwise the Olympics cannot take place in Paris (in 2024) . » According to this group leader, Interior Minister Gérald Darmanin is the “shame of the government” . “He lied and that added to our pain and trauma. Withdraw your baseless accusations and have the decency to resign, he called. Thirty-three years ago, the authorities lied about the Hillsborough tragedy. His speech reminded us of that. But you have to have the courage to tell the truth, even to the most powerful. Until it is revealed in broad daylight, we will not be respected. » “We were treated as we are treated all year round, which is to say as a threat. This explains the failures of the safety device. It is urgent to get out of it, to learn from our European neighbors and to bring ourselves up to date. » Ronan Evain, Managing Director of Football Supporters Europe ... In the process, Joe Blott, president of the Spirit of Shankly Federation, who had also made the trip to the United Kingdom especially to be heard, gave a layer. "We are here to see justice done, " he said. The police force stuck to the 1980s thinking that Liverpool supporters were all hooligans. These are hurtful and false prejudices, to hide their own failure. To hear the French authorities repeating the same kinds of lies as during the Hillsborough disaster caused the fans tremendous heartache and pain. It's a heartbreaker. Why put the responsibility on the supporters as a first instinct, when their heroic behavior succeeded in saving lives? » Emilio Dumas, Franco-Spanish and Real Madrid socio for thirty years, also shared this rejection of the charges. “On the night of the match, we were very worried rather than happy about the victory. Three weeks later, I still have a lot more bad memories than good ones. Nobody was quiet to leave the stadium. I have never seen such an inactive attitude of the police towards the help requested. I was really scared. These stories shame the image of France, ” he confided, in video. In addition and in summary, Ronan Evain, Managing Director of Football Supporters Europe, concluded: “The supporters have been victims of three things: old representations, an archaic mobility plan and a poor French approach to supporters. We were treated the way we are treated all year round, which is to say as a threat. This explains the failures of the safety device. It is urgent to get out of it, to learn from our European neighbors and to bring ourselves up to date. » |
|
