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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 19, 2022 11:11:56 GMT
If you look at our best performances of the season they pretty much all, with the possible exception of QPR away (when our keeper was motm) had a balanced midfield. Both West Brom games, both Swansea games, Hull away. so with Allen then so if he stays (seems unlikely)we don't need a new one? I’d prefer we moved him on and got someone more mobile, more physical and younger in the role.
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Post by wuzza on May 19, 2022 12:09:32 GMT
I don’t view Powell as being overly consistent (stats will probably tell me I’m wrong) and certainly not a man who takes a game by the scruff of the neck as his ability suggests he could but there we go. Certainly agree that our overseas scouting seems at best sketchy at worst non existent. I’m not sure that it’s not just our playing style and tactics that leave me feeling the midfield is always vulnerable but there’s definitely something that doesn’t click far too often - and that’s me as a big fan of Joe speaking. Compared to which players in his position though? Again he creates chances, he’s a regular source of goals, which number 10s are ‘taking the game by the scruff of the neck’, and how so? I have zero to back it up - just a subjective impression I have always had about him 🙂 I guess he has had the misfortune to play in some fairly ineffective teams in his time here which hasn’t done him any favours.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 19, 2022 12:18:17 GMT
Compared to which players in his position though? Again he creates chances, he’s a regular source of goals, which number 10s are ‘taking the game by the scruff of the neck’, and how so? I have zero to back it up - just a subjective impression I have always had about him 🙂 I guess he has had the misfortune to play in some fairly ineffective teams in his time here which hasn’t done him any favours. I’ve never known a supporter base like ours for being suspicious of creative players. For me he’s been more consistent for us than Joe Allen ever has.
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Post by wuzza on May 19, 2022 12:45:18 GMT
I have zero to back it up - just a subjective impression I have always had about him 🙂 I guess he has had the misfortune to play in some fairly ineffective teams in his time here which hasn’t done him any favours. I’ve never known a supporter base like ours for being suspicious of creative players. For me he’s been more consistent for us than Joe Allen ever has. To be fair I was in awe of Alan Hudson as a youngster .......but then again Pej was my favourite player so I probably am a bit guilty.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 19, 2022 13:41:19 GMT
O'Neill has said he want his midfielders to be attack minded not supplementary defenders and brought in both Vrancic and Sawyers last season so there is no reason not to have them both in the squad this season. The midfield getting overrun was never an issue last season apart from Fulham away. Our failings were stupid mistakes at the back and not taking our chances. The midfield wasn't the problem - an experienced, reliable keeper, Souttar back in form and a finisher is what will make the difference - our midfield was one of the best on the division. That’s insane, do you actually believe that? You’ve said before that you agreed we needed a more physical option in midfield, have you gone back on that? The midfield was a huge part of the problem. It was a factor in us throwing away games from winning positions because we lost control of games. It was the reason we were completely outplayed in certain home games like the embarrassment against Blackpool. You talk about missing chances but for large chunks of the season we were barely creating anything and the lack of balance in the side was a sizeable factor in that. That balance is the key, even the most attacking teams in the league don’t pick a midfield that’s entirely attack-minded. Man City have Rodri. Liverpool have Fabinho. In our division, Fulham and Bournemouth each have a couple of midfielders whose primary function is to be strong and disciplined. If the plan this summer isn’t to sign a player like that then we’re going to be bottom half again. Thing is I never said we could do without a more physical midfielder did I. I said that your statement that we don't need to resign Sawyers (a ball playing attacking midfielder) BECAUSE we already had 2 players like that (Vrancic and Powell) didn't make any sense - especially as we have a manager who has repeatedly said he wants footballers in midfield and not "midfielder destroyers" or whatever term you prefer for a defensive minded type of midfielder. If you had said that if Allen leaves we could do with a more a physically imposing midfielder who is also good on the ball (a Championship version of Rodri or Fabinho) I would have agreed with you. The thing is that isn't what you said - you made a nonsensical statement implying 2 attacking midfielders (one with a shit injury record) and a manager who want to play with an attacking midfield was enough to see us through the season. I might well be insane but you are incapable of stringing together a reasoned arguement without making completely illogical statements and distorting what was actually said.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 19, 2022 14:03:29 GMT
That’s insane, do you actually believe that? You’ve said before that you agreed we needed a more physical option in midfield, have you gone back on that? The midfield was a huge part of the problem. It was a factor in us throwing away games from winning positions because we lost control of games. It was the reason we were completely outplayed in certain home games like the embarrassment against Blackpool. You talk about missing chances but for large chunks of the season we were barely creating anything and the lack of balance in the side was a sizeable factor in that. That balance is the key, even the most attacking teams in the league don’t pick a midfield that’s entirely attack-minded. Man City have Rodri. Liverpool have Fabinho. In our division, Fulham and Bournemouth each have a couple of midfielders whose primary function is to be strong and disciplined. If the plan this summer isn’t to sign a player like that then we’re going to be bottom half again. Thing is I never said we could do without a more physical midfielder did I. I said that your statement that we don't need to resign Sawyers (a ball playing attacking midfielder) BECAUSE we already had 2 players like that (Vrancic and Powell) didn't make any sense - especially as we have a manager who has repeatedly said he wants footballers in midfield and not "midfielder destroyers" or whatever term you prefer for a defensive minded type of midfielder. If you had said that if Allen leaves we could do with a more a physically imposing midfielder who is also good on the ball (a Championship version of Rodri or Fabinho) I would have agreed with you. The thing is that isn't what you said - you made a nonsensical statement implying 2 attacking midfielders (one with a shit injury record) and a manager who want to play with an attacking midfield was enough to see us through the season. I might well be insane but you are incapable of stringing together a reasoned arguement without making completely illogical statements and distorting what was actually said. I’m not distorting anyone, you’re the one constructing the straw man of arguing against ‘a conventional defensive midfielder’ when that really wasn’t what I was arguing for, just someone capable of playing that role off the ball when required and bringing some steel and positional discipline. We don’t need to sign Sawyers because he can only play as a 10. He has been a total disaster played in that deeper role owing to his complete lack of willingness to do any off the ball work, which anyone in that deeper role needs to do. The manager has talked about not wanting that kind of physical or defensive minded midfielder but where’s the evidence he’s right to think that? Our best performances have had that kind of player in there and some balance. Allen/Baker, Allen/Thompson or Allen/an unusually motivated Clucas.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 19, 2022 14:07:48 GMT
That’s insane, do you actually believe that? You’ve said before that you agreed we needed a more physical option in midfield, have you gone back on that? The midfield was a huge part of the problem. It was a factor in us throwing away games from winning positions because we lost control of games. It was the reason we were completely outplayed in certain home games like the embarrassment against Blackpool. You talk about missing chances but for large chunks of the season we were barely creating anything and the lack of balance in the side was a sizeable factor in that. That balance is the key, even the most attacking teams in the league don’t pick a midfield that’s entirely attack-minded. Man City have Rodri. Liverpool have Fabinho. In our division, Fulham and Bournemouth each have a couple of midfielders whose primary function is to be strong and disciplined. If the plan this summer isn’t to sign a player like that then we’re going to be bottom half again. Thing is I never said we could do without a more physical midfielder did I. I said that your statement that we don't need to resign Sawyers (a ball playing attacking midfielder) BECAUSE we already had 2 players like that (Vrancic and Powell) didn't make any sense - especially as we have a manager who has repeatedly said he wants footballers in midfield and not "midfielder destroyers" or whatever term you prefer for a defensive minded type of midfielder. If you had said that if Allen leaves we could do with a more a physically imposing midfielder who is also good on the ball (a Championship version of Rodri or Fabinho) I would have agreed with you. The thing is that isn't what you said - you made a nonsensical statement implying 2 attacking midfielders (one with a shit injury record) and a manager who want to play with an attacking midfield was enough to see us through the season. I might well be insane but you are incapable of stringing together a reasoned arguement without making completely illogical statements and distorting what was actually said. Of course it makes sense. We have had the evidence of a season where Sawyers has shown he can't play deeper for us in our set up with this manager. That renders the signing pointless unless a) Vrancic wasn't here b) MON wasn't here.
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Post by lordb on May 19, 2022 17:26:35 GMT
Thing is I never said we could do without a more physical midfielder did I. I said that your statement that we don't need to resign Sawyers (a ball playing attacking midfielder) BECAUSE we already had 2 players like that (Vrancic and Powell) didn't make any sense - especially as we have a manager who has repeatedly said he wants footballers in midfield and not "midfielder destroyers" or whatever term you prefer for a defensive minded type of midfielder. If you had said that if Allen leaves we could do with a more a physically imposing midfielder who is also good on the ball (a Championship version of Rodri or Fabinho) I would have agreed with you. The thing is that isn't what you said - you made a nonsensical statement implying 2 attacking midfielders (one with a shit injury record) and a manager who want to play with an attacking midfield was enough to see us through the season. I might well be insane but you are incapable of stringing together a reasoned arguement without making completely illogical statements and distorting what was actually said. Thing is I never said we could do without a more physical midfielder did I. I said that your statement that we don't need to resign Sawyers (a ball playing attacking midfielder) BECAUSE we already had 2 players like that (Vrancic and Powell) didn't make any sense - especially as we have a manager who has repeatedly said he wants footballers in midfield and not "midfielder destroyers" or whatever term you prefer for a defensive minded type of midfielder. If you had said that if Allen leaves we could do with a more a physically imposing midfielder who is also good on the ball (a Championship version of Rodri or Fabinho) I would have agreed with you. The thing is that isn't what you said - you made a nonsensical statement implying 2 attacking midfielders (one with a shit injury record) and a manager who want to play with an attacking midfield was enough to see us through the season. I might well be insane but you are incapable of stringing together a reasoned arguement without making completely illogical statements and distorting what was actually said. I’m not distorting anyone, you’re the one constructing the straw man of arguing against ‘a conventional defensive midfielder’ when that really wasn’t what I was arguing for, just someone capable of playing that role off the ball when required and bringing some steel and positional discipline. We don’t need to sign Sawyers because he can only play as a 10. He has been a total disaster played in that deeper role owing to his complete lack of willingness to do any off the ball work, which anyone in that deeper role needs to do. The manager has talked about not wanting that kind of physical or defensive minded midfielder but where’s the evidence he’s right to think that? Our best performances have had that kind of player in there and some balance. Allen/Baker, Allen/Thompson or Allen/an unusually motivated Clucas. Speaking of Clucas presumably he will just see his contract out? Hopefully we draw Swansea and Hull in the cups and get one then the other in the play offs
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Post by jokker on May 19, 2022 19:29:02 GMT
‘Superbly’ is a strong word re Bojan imo. Outside of a handful of games he never quite looked the player who was ripping teams to shreds and being talked of as a £20m player being whispered about by big clubs. I thought he was superb with Arnie and Shaq after his injury to be fair he was levels above superb before his injury Hughes lost faith in him which was a mistake Rowett simply doesn't trust inside forwards/play makers and Jones was insane for not using him in his beloved diamond Is Shawcross having a testimonial? (& if not why not?) Would be a perfect opportunity to show Bojan e.t.c what we think of him As for Souttar let's keep an open mind, atm the vibes are good I would agree that Bojan was more than super on his return, but the three not alwaus defending men up front didn't sit easy with the rest of the team nor for that matter with the manager, who even while Boj weas making his comeback had started planning without him. Thus when Imbula arrived on the scene someone had to make way and it became our maestro. Talk about bad decisions, well this was the worst ever.
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Post by lordb on May 19, 2022 19:36:53 GMT
I thought he was superb with Arnie and Shaq after his injury to be fair he was levels above superb before his injury Hughes lost faith in him which was a mistake Rowett simply doesn't trust inside forwards/play makers and Jones was insane for not using him in his beloved diamond Is Shawcross having a testimonial? (& if not why not?) Would be a perfect opportunity to show Bojan e.t.c what we think of him As for Souttar let's keep an open mind, atm the vibes are good I would agree that Bojan was more than super on his return, but the three not alwaus defending men up front didn't sit easy with the rest of the team nor for that matter with the manager, who even while Boj weas making his comeback had started planning without him. Thus when Imbula arrived on the scene someone had to make way and it became our maestro. Talk about bad decisions, well this was the worst ever. Imbula is the most talented waste of space we've ever had Criminal
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 19, 2022 19:58:34 GMT
Amazing that people think if this mesh’s no sawyers abd Allen it’s a positive with no money and a manager stating clearly a sell to buy policy supplemented by old and young id love to hear who we honk we will get that are an improvement on those two . Right now my monies on both will leave and will be in the top 25 championship midfielders next season stats wise both are decent players used properly in the right system What system does Allen fit in?
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 19, 2022 20:17:00 GMT
Amazing that people think if this mesh’s no sawyers abd Allen it’s a positive with no money and a manager stating clearly a sell to buy policy supplemented by old and young id love to hear who we honk we will get that are an improvement on those two . Right now my monies on both will leave and will be in the top 25 championship midfielders next season stats wise both are decent players used properly in the right system What system does Allen fit in? 442 as one of two in the middle 4321 as one of three either side 433 as one of three 5311 as one of three
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Post by boskampsflaps on May 19, 2022 21:58:11 GMT
What system does Allen fit in? 442 as one of two in the middle 4321 as one of three either side 433 as one of three 5311 as one of three Nope
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 16, 2023 13:38:03 GMT
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Post by RF10 on Feb 17, 2023 14:00:14 GMT
"One of the best signings in Bosnian history"
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Post by stiggerstackle on Feb 17, 2023 14:18:11 GMT
Weird one - I really liked him, thought he could do a job for us, but hey-ho.
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