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Post by jokker on May 17, 2022 10:56:32 GMT
Couldn’t play a very high line. Suspect Jags has been re-signed purely to see us through until Souttar is back. Would explain 6 month rather than full season deal We should probably be careful about planning for "until Souttar is back." If his comeback pans out the same way as when Allen and Campbell - and Bojan to go further back - returned, it could be a fair while before Souttar is back to his best. It might take all of the whole season, or maybe less, I am not in the know to say which, but it won't be like 'Souttar is back, now all our problems are gone'.
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2022 11:12:50 GMT
Would explain 6 month rather than full season deal We should probably be careful about planning for "until Souttar is back." If his comeback pans out the same way as when Allen and Campbell - and Bojan to go further back - returned, it could be a fair while before Souttar is back to his best. It might take all of the whole season, or maybe less, I am not in the know to say which, but it won't be like 'Souttar is back, now all our problems are gone'. so Jagielka 6 month deal makes compete sense then? all the noise is that harry is bang on track however if it's a Campbell like return (rather than Bojan like who came back superbly) then Jags should get another six months sensible planning I think providing Jags is happy with that who knows though, there will be lots of examples of players coming back & having good seasons & lots where they are a pale shadow (at least for a while)
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 17, 2022 11:18:05 GMT
We should probably be careful about planning for "until Souttar is back." If his comeback pans out the same way as when Allen and Campbell - and Bojan to go further back - returned, it could be a fair while before Souttar is back to his best. It might take all of the whole season, or maybe less, I am not in the know to say which, but it won't be like 'Souttar is back, now all our problems are gone'. so Jagielka 6 month deal makes compete sense then? all the noise is that harry is bang on track however if it's a Campbell like return (rather than Bojan like who came back superbly) then Jags should get another six months sensible planning I think providing Jags is happy with that who knows though, there will be lots of examples of players coming back & having good seasons & lots where they are a pale shadow (at least for a while) ‘Superbly’ is a strong word re Bojan imo. Outside of a handful of games he never quite looked the player who was ripping teams to shreds and being talked of as a £20m player being whispered about by big clubs.
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2022 11:31:28 GMT
so Jagielka 6 month deal makes compete sense then? all the noise is that harry is bang on track however if it's a Campbell like return (rather than Bojan like who came back superbly) then Jags should get another six months sensible planning I think providing Jags is happy with that who knows though, there will be lots of examples of players coming back & having good seasons & lots where they are a pale shadow (at least for a while) ‘Superbly’ is a strong word re Bojan imo. Outside of a handful of games he never quite looked the player who was ripping teams to shreds and being talked of as a £20m player being whispered about by big clubs. I thought he was superb with Arnie and Shaq after his injury to be fair he was levels above superb before his injury Hughes lost faith in him which was a mistake Rowett simply doesn't trust inside forwards/play makers and Jones was insane for not using him in his beloved diamond Is Shawcross having a testimonial? (& if not why not?) Would be a perfect opportunity to show Bojan e.t.c what we think of him As for Souttar let's keep an open mind, atm the vibes are good
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on May 17, 2022 12:03:04 GMT
Hopefully that means Sawyers won't be coming and we can look at a new body in midfield and another to replace Joe.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 17, 2022 12:03:47 GMT
‘Superbly’ is a strong word re Bojan imo. Outside of a handful of games he never quite looked the player who was ripping teams to shreds and being talked of as a £20m player being whispered about by big clubs. I thought he was superb with Arnie and Shaq after his injury to be fair he was levels above superb before his injury Hughes lost faith in him which was a mistake Rowett simply doesn't trust inside forwards/play makers and Jones was insane for not using him in his beloved diamond Is Shawcross having a testimonial? (& if not why not?) Would be a perfect opportunity to show Bojan e.t.c what we think of him As for Souttar let's keep an open mind, atm the vibes are good I thought he had maybe 2-3 superb games with Shaq and Arnie (the Man City, Man Utd, and Everton games) but was hit and miss beyond that. Didn’t really make much impression in his loan spells in Spain and Germany either. Heartbreaking really, that run pre-Rochdale had a string of some of the finest individual performances I’d seen from any Stoke player. Agree that Hughes lost faith in the false 9 too quickly. Putting all of his eggs in the Imbula basket didn’t help.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 18, 2022 6:58:42 GMT
Great news on both fronts. I don't get the whole Vrancic as a Powell understudy thing - they both play attacking midfield but have completely different games. Powell ghosts in behind the strikers and is an Ariel threat. Vrancic picks passes that release the strikers from a deeper position and is brilliant with a dead ball. If one is played rather than the other the shape has to change because neither does the others job - the only common factor is that they are technically good, creative players. It's also nonsense that they can't play in the same side - some of our best games early season were when they both started. It affects the shape of the side but it can work really well if the sitting midfielder and defence are doing their job. In terms of Vrancic's form tailoring off it did but no more than the rest of the team. Powell on the other hand had some shockers and at times he was a actually a liability on the pitch. To be fair he shouldn't have been playing and given more time to recover. The whole understudy idea is nonsense anyway and in the case invented by the Powell fan club to justify having their favourite player as first choice. The fact is neither Powell nor Vrancic are understudies and both are competing for positions on a level playing field for inclusion in the starting 11 and it's great we have both as options next season. As I told you yesterday, I’m fine with another attacking midfielder starting over Powell if he’s the player in form. I think you can only play them in the same side if you’re playing Powell as a second striker in a front two. Don’t think you can play Baker, Vrancic and Powell in the same team. When Vrancic and Powell played they were just behind a single striker with 2 sitting midfielders. We've tried Powell as a second striker and it doesn't really get the best out of him. You have a very specific view of how a midfield is supposed to be set up - in particular that you still need a traditional DM in front of a back five. My take is that you can set up that way but it takes away the advantage of having the extra centre back and is far too defensive. You seem to think you drop an attacking midfielder or striker for an extra centre back. My take on how 5 at the back works in the modern game is that the DM role is got rid of and the extra centre back is really a deeper lying DM who can bring out the ball and bring in midfield. You still expect the midfield to tackle but their focus is on supporting the attack rather than covering the defence. Baker, Vrancic and Powell doesn't fit your definition of how a midfield should be setup but I don't agree that your perception of a midfield in front of a back three is the only way of setting up and definitely isn't the way O'Neill is setting us up to play.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 18, 2022 7:00:04 GMT
As I told you yesterday, I’m fine with another attacking midfielder starting over Powell if he’s the player in form. I think you can only play them in the same side if you’re playing Powell as a second striker in a front two. Don’t think you can play Baker, Vrancic and Powell in the same team. When Vrancic and Powell played they were just behind a single striker with 2 sitting midfielders. We've tried Powell as a second striker and it doesn't really get the best out of him. You have a very specific view of how a midfield is supposed to be set up - in particular that you still need a traditional DM in front of a back five. My take is that you can set up that way but it takes away the advantage of having the extra centre back and is far too defensive. You seem to think you drop an attacking midfielder or striker for an extra centre back. My take on how 5 at the back works in the modern game is that the DM role is got rid of and the extra centre back is really a deeper lying DM who can bring out the ball and bring in midfield. You still expect the midfield to tackle but their focus is on supporting the attack rather than covering the defence. Baker, Vrancic and Powell doesn't fit your definition of how a midfield should be setup but I don't agree that your perception of a midfield in front of a back three is the only way of setting up and definitely isn't the way O'Neill is setting us up to play. Not O’Neill the lame duck of a manager who should be sacked already. 😂😂
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 18, 2022 8:07:07 GMT
As I told you yesterday, I’m fine with another attacking midfielder starting over Powell if he’s the player in form. I think you can only play them in the same side if you’re playing Powell as a second striker in a front two. Don’t think you can play Baker, Vrancic and Powell in the same team. When Vrancic and Powell played they were just behind a single striker with 2 sitting midfielders. We've tried Powell as a second striker and it doesn't really get the best out of him. You have a very specific view of how a midfield is supposed to be set up - in particular that you still need a traditional DM in front of a back five. My take is that you can set up that way but it takes away the advantage of having the extra centre back and is far too defensive. You seem to think you drop an attacking midfielder or striker for an extra centre back. My take on how 5 at the back works in the modern game is that the DM role is got rid of and the extra centre back is really a deeper lying DM who can bring out the ball and bring in midfield. You still expect the midfield to tackle but their focus is on supporting the attack rather than covering the defence. Baker, Vrancic and Powell doesn't fit your definition of how a midfield should be setup but I don't agree that your perception of a midfield in front of a back three is the only way of setting up and definitely isn't the way O'Neill is setting us up to play. Yeah, and how’s that going? Powell was doing fine as a second striker. He’s better as a conventional 10 but when he was in that role he was creating chances, we were right up there for xG, and the West Brom home game with him in that role, Vrancic just behind and a double pivot was as balanced as we’ve looked and just about the best we’ve played. You keep saying this about a back three not needing a ‘conventional’ DM, but every team who plays the system has at least one and often two players who, while maybe not exclusively holding, are physical and can be disciplined when the need arises. Chelsea have Jorginho and Kovacic. Brentford have Janelt and Nordgaard. We too rarely have had even one doing that and it’s caused us some real problems. Who provides that in a midfield of Baker, Vrancic and Powell? Powell doesn’t work in a deeper role. Vrancic doesn’t have the legs. Baker has some physicality but is better as a box to box option and is neutered if you lumber him with all the donkey work.
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Post by superalexneil on May 18, 2022 9:04:19 GMT
When Vrancic and Powell played they were just behind a single striker with 2 sitting midfielders. We've tried Powell as a second striker and it doesn't really get the best out of him. You have a very specific view of how a midfield is supposed to be set up - in particular that you still need a traditional DM in front of a back five. My take is that you can set up that way but it takes away the advantage of having the extra centre back and is far too defensive. You seem to think you drop an attacking midfielder or striker for an extra centre back. My take on how 5 at the back works in the modern game is that the DM role is got rid of and the extra centre back is really a deeper lying DM who can bring out the ball and bring in midfield. You still expect the midfield to tackle but their focus is on supporting the attack rather than covering the defence. Baker, Vrancic and Powell doesn't fit your definition of how a midfield should be setup but I don't agree that your perception of a midfield in front of a back three is the only way of setting up and definitely isn't the way O'Neill is setting us up to play. Yeah, and how’s that going? Powell was doing fine as a second striker. He’s better as a conventional 10 but when he was in that role he was creating chances, we were right up there for xG, and the West Brom home game with him in that role, Vrancic just behind and a double pivot was as balanced as we’ve looked and just about the best we’ve played. You keep saying this about a back three not needing a ‘conventional’ DM, but every team who plays the system has at least one and often two players who, while maybe not exclusively holding, are physical and can be disciplined when the need arises. Chelsea have Jorginho and Kovacic. Brentford have Janelt and Nordgaard. We too rarely have had even one doing that and it’s caused us some real problems. Who provides that in a midfield of Baker, Vrancic and Powell? Powell doesn’t work in a deeper role. Vrancic doesn’t have the legs. Baker has some physicality but is better as a box to box option and is neutered if you lumber him with all the donkey work. long term baker vrancic and powell wouldnt work need a joe allen or jordan thompson in there to do the dirty work
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on May 18, 2022 9:10:27 GMT
Hopefully Allen will be gone and we can use the saving on his wages to bring in a good Bosman or a loan. Thompson can stay as back up. If Clucas is still hanging around then I doubt we'll bring in anyone other than a Joe replacement. A lead striker and a right back would go some way to tweaking our formation, and I'm with most on here in wanting a new 'keeper.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 18, 2022 9:54:43 GMT
Amazing that people think if this mesh’s no sawyers abd Allen it’s a positive with no money and a manager stating clearly a sell to buy policy supplemented by old and young id love to hear who we honk we will get that are an improvement on those two .
Right now my monies on both will leave and will be in the top 25 championship midfielders next season stats wise both are decent players used properly in the right system
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 18, 2022 9:59:16 GMT
Amazing that people think if this mesh’s no sawyers abd Allen it’s a positive with no money and a manager stating clearly a sell to buy policy supplemented by old and young id love to hear who we honk we will get that are an improvement on those two . Right now my monies on both will leave and will be in the top 25 championship midfielders next season stats wise both are decent players used properly in the right system The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 18, 2022 10:01:32 GMT
Amazing that people think if this mesh’s no sawyers abd Allen it’s a positive with no money and a manager stating clearly a sell to buy policy supplemented by old and young id love to hear who we honk we will get that are an improvement on those two . Right now my monies on both will leave and will be in the top 25 championship midfielders next season stats wise both are decent players used properly in the right system The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now. Agree but we didn’t need vranic if we had sawyers essentially vranic had become a American football goal kicker as the seasons gone on completely overrun in this league
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Post by moon on May 18, 2022 10:07:22 GMT
Amazing that people think if this mesh’s no sawyers abd Allen it’s a positive with no money and a manager stating clearly a sell to buy policy supplemented by old and young id love to hear who we honk we will get that are an improvement on those two . Right now my monies on both will leave and will be in the top 25 championship midfielders next season stats wise both are decent players used properly in the right system The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now. Was it our decision or his decision? from reading that article I understood Powell and Vrancic had decided to take up their options of another year, not SCFC deciding to keep them for another year, anyway - it doesn't matter so much I guess. Powell staying is great news, Vrancic is likely good for another year at this level despite not offering much in the second half of the season, given the choice I'd take Sawyers above Vrancic but I don't think either of them should be in the starting 11 anyway and yes - we don't need both, a defensive midfielder would be preferable.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 18, 2022 10:09:49 GMT
The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now. Agree but we didn’t need vranic if we had sawyers essentially vranic had become a American football goal kicker as the seasons gone on completely overrun in this league I’d have probably preferred to keep Sawyers of the two but we are where we are now.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 18, 2022 10:12:07 GMT
The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now. Was it our decision or his decision? from reading that article I understood Powell and Vrancic had decided to take up their options of another year, not SCFC deciding to keep them for another year, anyway - it doesn't matter so much I guess. Powell staying is great news, Vrancic is likely good for another year at this level despite not offering much in the second half of the season, given the choice I'd take Sawyers above Vrancic but I don't think either of them should be in the starting 11 anyway and yes - we don't need both, a defensive midfielder would be preferable.
Not sure how these contracts work tbh. The article was vaguely worded and said the players had ‘triggered’ them but it isn’t clear from that how that works. I’d be surprised if football clubs (even ours) opened themselves up to a deal that potentially took the decision of whether a player stays or goes out of their hands.
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Post by Championship Potter on May 18, 2022 10:19:39 GMT
Would explain 6 month rather than full season deal We should probably be careful about planning for "until Souttar is back." If his comeback pans out the same way as when Allen and Campbell - and Bojan to go further back - returned, it could be a fair while before Souttar is back to his best. It might take all of the whole season, or maybe less, I am not in the know to say which, but it won't be like 'Souttar is back, now all our problems are gone'. Centre backs generally come back better from ACLs - not entirely sure why but guess you aren’t as reliant on needing to turn and change direction quickly. Not saying he’ll be perfect but think he’ll be fine to throw straight back in and immediately improve us.
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Post by jokker on May 18, 2022 12:39:33 GMT
We should probably be careful about planning for "until Souttar is back." If his comeback pans out the same way as when Allen and Campbell - and Bojan to go further back - returned, it could be a fair while before Souttar is back to his best. It might take all of the whole season, or maybe less, I am not in the know to say which, but it won't be like 'Souttar is back, now all our problems are gone'. Centre backs generally come back better from ACLs - not entirely sure why but guess you aren’t as reliant on needing to turn and change direction quickly. Not saying he’ll be perfect but think he’ll be fine to throw straight back in and immediately improve us. Ok you might be right, but I still think we should allow him to find his feet, before we criticise him for not being the player he was before the injury, which is exactly what some have criticised about Allen and Campbell. Whether you like Allen or not (I don't), he wasn't really running and competing until he had the blessing of a pre season behind him, and whether you like Campbell (I do, but a lot never liked him from the first minute he made his debut and have been eager to criticise him), we can probably all agree that he hasn't hit the heights he did before the injury. Whether the upcoming pre season serves him well or not time will tell. Just how much of a pre season Souttar gets I don't know, but yes, to read his interviews he appears to be optimistic.
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Post by Championship Potter on May 18, 2022 21:50:35 GMT
Centre backs generally come back better from ACLs - not entirely sure why but guess you aren’t as reliant on needing to turn and change direction quickly. Not saying he’ll be perfect but think he’ll be fine to throw straight back in and immediately improve us. Ok you might be right, but I still think we should allow him to find his feet, before we criticise him for not being the player he was before the injury, which is exactly what some have criticised about Allen and Campbell. Whether you like Allen or not (I don't), he wasn't really running and competing until he had the blessing of a pre season behind him, and whether you like Campbell (I do, but a lot never liked him from the first minute he made his debut and have been eager to criticise him), we can probably all agree that he hasn't hit the heights he did before the injury. Whether the upcoming pre season serves him well or not time will tell. Just how much of a pre season Souttar gets I don't know, but yes, to read his interviews he appears to be optimistic. Oh yeah completely agree. No player is going to hit the ground running immediately after a serious injury. Give it a season or two though and most will get back to a decent level. Campbell is younger than Wilson and Ings, as examples of players that have had much worse injuries and probably actually improved post injury. I think Allen has done really well too considering his age and coming back from an Achilles injury that should have impacted his mobility. If you look at the Premier League Van Dijk and Rudiger were arguably the two best centre backs this year and both have had ACLs, so does show you can back to a seriously good level with the right medical care and training.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 19, 2022 5:48:17 GMT
Amazing that people think if this mesh’s no sawyers abd Allen it’s a positive with no money and a manager stating clearly a sell to buy policy supplemented by old and young id love to hear who we honk we will get that are an improvement on those two . Right now my monies on both will leave and will be in the top 25 championship midfielders next season stats wise both are decent players used properly in the right system The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now. O'Neill has said he want his midfielders to be attack minded not supplementary defenders and brought in both Vrancic and Sawyers last season so there is no reason not to have them both in the squad this season. The midfield getting overrun was never an issue last season apart from Fulham away. Our failings were stupid mistakes at the back and not taking our chances. The midfield wasn't the problem - an experienced, reliable keeper, Souttar back in form and a finisher is what will make the difference - our midfield was one of the best on the division.
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Post by cobhamstokey on May 19, 2022 6:49:14 GMT
The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now. O'Neill has said he want his midfielders to be attack minded not supplementary defenders and brought in both Vrancic and Sawyers last season so there is no reason not to have them both in the squad this season. The midfield getting overrun was never an issue last season apart from Fulham away. Our failings were stupid mistakes at the back and not taking our chances. The midfield wasn't the problem - an experienced, reliable keeper, Souttar back in form and a finisher is what will make the difference - our midfield was one of the best on the division. The shape of the team is important. We have the quality in a lot of areas. In Souttar, Powell and Baker we have 3 of the best players in the league. We need to build around them and find the best position to play Powell as if he’s playing an advanced midfielder Baker needs someone defensive minded sitting alongside him. We need more physicality and pace in the side. Priority’s for me GK - We need a steady number 1 who the defence feel comfortable with. RB - Now Smiths been released it’s a no brainer. 2 if possible. CM - Someone who does the ugly things really well. A bit like Whelan. Target man - A striker who can hold the ball up well, with pace and can bring others into play. Similar to Keenan Davis. Get those positions sorted and keep injury free and we could have a shout of the playoffs.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 19, 2022 6:54:54 GMT
The decision to re-sign Vrancic means we don’t really need Sawyers now. O'Neill has said he want his midfielders to be attack minded not supplementary defenders and brought in both Vrancic and Sawyers last season so there is no reason not to have them both in the squad this season. The midfield getting overrun was never an issue last season apart from Fulham away. Our failings were stupid mistakes at the back and not taking our chances. The midfield wasn't the problem - an experienced, reliable keeper, Souttar back in form and a finisher is what will make the difference - our midfield was one of the best on the division. That’s insane, do you actually believe that? You’ve said before that you agreed we needed a more physical option in midfield, have you gone back on that? The midfield was a huge part of the problem. It was a factor in us throwing away games from winning positions because we lost control of games. It was the reason we were completely outplayed in certain home games like the embarrassment against Blackpool. You talk about missing chances but for large chunks of the season we were barely creating anything and the lack of balance in the side was a sizeable factor in that. That balance is the key, even the most attacking teams in the league don’t pick a midfield that’s entirely attack-minded. Man City have Rodri. Liverpool have Fabinho. In our division, Fulham and Bournemouth each have a couple of midfielders whose primary function is to be strong and disciplined. If the plan this summer isn’t to sign a player like that then we’re going to be bottom half again.
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Post by wuzza on May 19, 2022 7:20:41 GMT
In my simplistic world the analysis of Vrancic, Sawyers , Powell etc boils down to one problem - all are very good at this level on their day but their day doesn’t happen regularly enough and all are capable of absolutely disappearing from a game far too often. The obvious argument is that if they were consistent they would be playing at a higher level given their basic talent but the fact remains that in the Champ you need some reliable 7/10ers that you can build every performance around and we simply don’t have enough of them.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 19, 2022 7:25:01 GMT
In my simplistic world the analysis of Vrancic, Sawyers , Powell etc boils down to one problem - all are very good at this level on their day but their day doesn’t happen regularly enough and all are capable of absolutely disappearing from a game far too often. The obvious argument is that if they were consistent they would be playing at a higher level given their basic talent but the fact remains that in the Champ you need some reliable 7/10ers that you can build every performance around and we simply don’t have enough of them. Don’t think it gets much more consistent than Powell at this level to be honest. His goal return suggests that, as did our chances created stats falling through the floor after he got injured, as did Tachyon’s analysis of him in the Sentinel the other week. If we’re talking about a creative player who is at the top of his game delivering every single week, you need either a better developed, wider searching, imaginative scouting system, like the one that unearthed Buendia for Norwich from the Spanish second division, or you need to start the bidding at £20-£30m.
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Post by lordb on May 19, 2022 7:28:32 GMT
O'Neill has said he want his midfielders to be attack minded not supplementary defenders and brought in both Vrancic and Sawyers last season so there is no reason not to have them both in the squad this season. The midfield getting overrun was never an issue last season apart from Fulham away. Our failings were stupid mistakes at the back and not taking our chances. The midfield wasn't the problem - an experienced, reliable keeper, Souttar back in form and a finisher is what will make the difference - our midfield was one of the best on the division. That’s insane, do you actually believe that? You’ve said before that you agreed we needed a more physical option in midfield, have you gone back on that? The midfield was a huge part of the problem. It was a factor in us throwing away games from winning positions because we lost control of games. It was the reason we were completely outplayed in certain home games like the embarrassment against Blackpool. You talk about missing chances but for large chunks of the season we were barely creating anything and the lack of balance in the side was a sizeable factor in that. That balance is the key, even the most attacking teams in the league don’t pick a midfield that’s entirely attack-minded. Man City have Rodri. Liverpool have Fabinho. In our division, Fulham and Bournemouth each have a couple of midfielders whose primary function is to be strong and disciplined. If the plan this summer isn’t to sign a player like that then we’re going to be bottom half again. We didn't get overrun in midfield too often >very noticeable when we did mind< too many unforced errors at the back and too many games, especially away, where we didn't get a second goal despite lots of chances i.e. Not good enough in both boxes Home games different issue, simply too slow and ponderous, not enough chances created I don't disagree that, especially if playing 4 at the back, we need a defensive minded midfielder but it's not going to make much difference re turning all those single goal defeats into wins Home games we need to play faster more dynamic football
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 19, 2022 7:38:37 GMT
That’s insane, do you actually believe that? You’ve said before that you agreed we needed a more physical option in midfield, have you gone back on that? The midfield was a huge part of the problem. It was a factor in us throwing away games from winning positions because we lost control of games. It was the reason we were completely outplayed in certain home games like the embarrassment against Blackpool. You talk about missing chances but for large chunks of the season we were barely creating anything and the lack of balance in the side was a sizeable factor in that. That balance is the key, even the most attacking teams in the league don’t pick a midfield that’s entirely attack-minded. Man City have Rodri. Liverpool have Fabinho. In our division, Fulham and Bournemouth each have a couple of midfielders whose primary function is to be strong and disciplined. If the plan this summer isn’t to sign a player like that then we’re going to be bottom half again. We didn't get overrun in midfield too often >very noticeable when we did mind< too many unforced errors at the back and too many games, especially away, where we didn't get a second goal despite lots of chances i.e. Not good enough in both boxes Home games different issue, simply too slow and ponderous, not enough chances created I don't disagree that, especially if playing 4 at the back, we need a defensive minded midfielder but it's not going to make much difference re turning all those single goal defeats into wins Home games we need to play faster more dynamic football If you look at our best performances of the season they pretty much all, with the possible exception of QPR away (when our keeper was motm) had a balanced midfield. Both West Brom games, both Swansea games, Hull away.
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Post by wuzza on May 19, 2022 10:31:08 GMT
In my simplistic world the analysis of Vrancic, Sawyers , Powell etc boils down to one problem - all are very good at this level on their day but their day doesn’t happen regularly enough and all are capable of absolutely disappearing from a game far too often. The obvious argument is that if they were consistent they would be playing at a higher level given their basic talent but the fact remains that in the Champ you need some reliable 7/10ers that you can build every performance around and we simply don’t have enough of them. Don’t think it gets much more consistent than Powell at this level to be honest. His goal return suggests that, as did our chances created stats falling through the floor after he got injured, as did Tachyon’s analysis of him in the Sentinel the other week. If we’re talking about a creative player who is at the top of his game delivering every single week, you need either a better developed, wider searching, imaginative scouting system, like the one that unearthed Buendia for Norwich from the Spanish second division, or you need to start the bidding at £20-£30m. I don’t view Powell as being overly consistent (stats will probably tell me I’m wrong) and certainly not a man who takes a game by the scruff of the neck as his ability suggests he could but there we go. Certainly agree that our overseas scouting seems at best sketchy at worst non existent. I’m not sure that it’s not just our playing style and tactics that leave me feeling the midfield is always vulnerable but there’s definitely something that doesn’t click far too often - and that’s me as a big fan of Joe speaking.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 19, 2022 10:40:39 GMT
Don’t think it gets much more consistent than Powell at this level to be honest. His goal return suggests that, as did our chances created stats falling through the floor after he got injured, as did Tachyon’s analysis of him in the Sentinel the other week. If we’re talking about a creative player who is at the top of his game delivering every single week, you need either a better developed, wider searching, imaginative scouting system, like the one that unearthed Buendia for Norwich from the Spanish second division, or you need to start the bidding at £20-£30m. I don’t view Powell as being overly consistent (stats will probably tell me I’m wrong) and certainly not a man who takes a game by the scruff of the neck as his ability suggests he could but there we go. Certainly agree that our overseas scouting seems at best sketchy at worst non existent. I’m not sure that it’s not just our playing style and tactics that leave me feeling the midfield is always vulnerable but there’s definitely something that doesn’t click far too often - and that’s me as a big fan of Joe speaking. Compared to which players in his position though? Again he creates chances, he’s a regular source of goals, which number 10s are ‘taking the game by the scruff of the neck’, and how so?
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Post by lordb on May 19, 2022 11:04:07 GMT
We didn't get overrun in midfield too often >very noticeable when we did mind< too many unforced errors at the back and too many games, especially away, where we didn't get a second goal despite lots of chances i.e. Not good enough in both boxes Home games different issue, simply too slow and ponderous, not enough chances created I don't disagree that, especially if playing 4 at the back, we need a defensive minded midfielder but it's not going to make much difference re turning all those single goal defeats into wins Home games we need to play faster more dynamic football If you look at our best performances of the season they pretty much all, with the possible exception of QPR away (when our keeper was motm) had a balanced midfield. Both West Brom games, both Swansea games, Hull away. so with Allen then so if he stays (seems unlikely)we don't need a new one?
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