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Post by fca47 on May 12, 2022 13:38:28 GMT
Usual Pullis haters coming out of the woodwork. Pretending he had no interest in younger players, before he left he had visited Germany etc. and was to give a report on how the set up could be improved.The fact he didn't have many in the team was because we didn't have anyone good enough. But he did play the two fullbacks.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2022 14:01:56 GMT
Usual Pullis haters coming out of the woodwork. Pretending he had no interest in younger players, before he left he had visited Germany etc. and was to give a report on how the set up could be improved.The fact he didn't have many in the team was because we didn't have anyone good enough. But he did play the two fullbacks. I can’t make out if this is satire or not. |
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Post by bunnyscfc on May 12, 2022 14:25:21 GMT
My youngest lad has been with Stoke since the age of 5. He's now 13, been there 8 years with 5 of those on a contract basis, and the irony is that tonight he has his end of season review and we talk about next year/season as he's contracted to June 2023. It's a really tricky situation re the day release: on the one hand I want him to enjoy his football, get some extra coaching on that day plus also socialise with his SCFC mates (and they get little time to actually do that during training/matches). On the other hand, he's giving up 20% of his education at a crucial stage of his school journey.
As a parent, I want the very best for my lad's education. I need guarantees that when he eventually leaves the club, his education won't have been affected, as it will be him and us who pick up the educational pieces -and that's not to mention picking up the pieces of a kid who trains three times and plays 1 game every week, over the last 5 years! That is one hell of a sacrifice in terms of time, money, social life, mates etc etc......
Luckily, my lad is bright enough to know that he'll probably not make it as a footballer, as few do. He's doing really well at school, plus plays and adores cricket. He has a good group of mates and he'll be fine. Whilst it will hurt him, there will be other kids for whom being let go from an academy is absolutely massive and will affect deeply. What happens to them at clubs? Where is the after care? I see Palace have put a three year After Care system in place, and this should be the norm. It must be so hard to go from playing at a Cat 1 academy to playing at grass roots football and that's why so many who leave academies give the game up. I can fully understand why. They've had years of being told they're elite to suddenly being released and feeling anything but elite. Indeed, personally I think kids should play grass roots until at least year 7 and then academies come into play then.
As for my lad? That day release has to be very worthwhile in a number of ways, because if it isn't he won't be missing his education. Simple as that.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 12, 2022 14:52:26 GMT
It's life. Thousands of people go to drama school every year thinking they're going to be an actor. How many people in their 20s and 30s kicking around hoping for a break that will never come? It's the sort of thing you take your chances with and prepare for the worst. At least footballers get paid to be at academies to a certain degree. Football's a bit different in that clubs hope some of these kids will be a money-making machine. Given the money involved and the way football works, surely the clubs owe some kind of preparation to these kids and their families when inevitably in most cases they don't make it as a professional footballer. They shouldn't be picking 9-year-olds up in a stretch limo and giving the kids everything on a plate. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 12, 2022 14:56:26 GMT
Who did he miss out on? Who went on to prove him wrong? Did he establish SCFC in the EPL with battle hardened troops, should he have employed a different route to ensure the family were receiving huge amounts of EPL monies for 10 years? I’m not saying anything ….it’s him who has an opinion on how to look after young academy kids yet had no interest in it when he was here Don’t think he ever attended a fixture no matter the age group That's not true. And our academy has only started to bear fruit in the past couple of years. The club said in the late 2000s it would take 10 years. Though Pulis even says in the article he's become more interested since his grandson joined an academy. |
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Post by bunnyscfc on May 12, 2022 14:57:40 GMT
It's life. Thousands of people go to drama school every year thinking they're going to be an actor. How many people in their 20s and 30s kicking around hoping for a break that will never come? It's the sort of thing you take your chances with and prepare for the worst. At least footballers get paid to be at academies to a certain degree. Well, I've never received one penny from Stoke and I know that noone else in our squad has. I know other academies pay expenses to parents, and with the cost of petrol nowadays those that come from Manchester or Brum to Stoke four times a week spend a huge amount of money to do so. Indeed, I couldn't afford to do that at all. One club offered us a taxi plus various other things a few years ago and it does go on. But we don't get anything for free apart from training kit, not even boots. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 12, 2022 15:21:18 GMT
It's life. Thousands of people go to drama school every year thinking they're going to be an actor. How many people in their 20s and 30s kicking around hoping for a break that will never come? It's the sort of thing you take your chances with and prepare for the worst. At least footballers get paid to be at academies to a certain degree. Football's a bit different in that clubs hope some of these kids will be a money-making machine. Given the money involved and the way football works, surely the clubs owe some kind of preparation to these kids and their families when inevitably in most cases they don't make it as a professional footballer. They shouldn't be picking 9-year-olds up in a stretch limo and giving the kids everything on a plate. It's absolutely no different to drama schools, who will have a fresh intake of 9k a year students. One in thousands become a star and the teenagers think it's going to be them. Just the way the world works I'm afraid. |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 12, 2022 15:23:01 GMT
It's life. Thousands of people go to drama school every year thinking they're going to be an actor. How many people in their 20s and 30s kicking around hoping for a break that will never come? It's the sort of thing you take your chances with and prepare for the worst. At least footballers get paid to be at academies to a certain degree. Well, I've never received one penny from Stoke and I know that noone else in our squad has. I know other academies pay expenses to parents, and with the cost of petrol nowadays those that come from Manchester or Brum to Stoke four times a week spend a huge amount of money to do so. Indeed, I couldn't afford to do that at all. One club offered us a taxi plus various other things a few years ago and it does go on. But we don't get anything for free apart from training kit, not even boots. Yeah I meant youth team players still earn a wage, compared to aspiring actors/musicians etc. |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 12, 2022 17:06:13 GMT
Football's a bit different in that clubs hope some of these kids will be a money-making machine. Given the money involved and the way football works, surely the clubs owe some kind of preparation to these kids and their families when inevitably in most cases they don't make it as a professional footballer. They shouldn't be picking 9-year-olds up in a stretch limo and giving the kids everything on a plate. It's absolutely no different to drama schools, who will have a fresh intake of 9k a year students. One in thousands become a star and the teenagers think it's going to be them. Just the way the world works I'm afraid. It is though because kids at drama schools don't have everything done for them. What does that teach kids in football academies about life? Yes, you have to work incredibly hard to stand a chance of becoming a professional footballer, but at the top academies, everything the kids need is put on a plate for them, and a lot more besides (such as the limo example). Pupils in drama schools generally muck in a lot more. The rejection side isn't different, but the way these potential careers are presented to children is completely different in football, in a way that many don't seem ready for a life outside of football or below what they dreamed/expected (take some recent young ex-Stoke players as an example). Rejection and failure should be an accepted part of life - failure in that it isn't the be all and end all if we learn from it, improve and try again. |
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Post by suck_the_mop. on May 12, 2022 17:29:00 GMT
Pulis and academies in the same sentence.. is this a wind up.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 12, 2022 17:44:10 GMT
My youngest lad has been with Stoke since the age of 5. He's now 13, been there 8 years with 5 of those on a contract basis, and the irony is that tonight he has his end of season review and we talk about next year/season as he's contracted to June 2023. It's a really tricky situation re the day release: on the one hand I want him to enjoy his football, get some extra coaching on that day plus also socialise with his SCFC mates (and they get little time to actually do that during training/matches). On the other hand, he's giving up 20% of his education at a crucial stage of his school journey. As a parent, I want the very best for my lad's education. I need guarantees that when he eventually leaves the club, his education won't have been affected, as it will be him and us who pick up the educational pieces -and that's not to mention picking up the pieces of a kid who trains three times and plays 1 game every week, over the last 5 years! That is one hell of a sacrifice in terms of time, money, social life, mates etc etc...... Luckily, my lad is bright enough to know that he'll probably not make it as a footballer, as few do. He's doing really well at school, plus plays and adores cricket. He has a good group of mates and he'll be fine. Whilst it will hurt him, there will be other kids for whom being let go from an academy is absolutely massive and will affect deeply. What happens to them at clubs? Where is the after care? I see Palace have put a three year After Care system in place, and this should be the norm. It must be so hard to go from playing at a Cat 1 academy to playing at grass roots football and that's why so many who leave academies give the game up. I can fully understand why. They've had years of being told they're elite to suddenly being released and feeling anything but elite. Indeed, personally I think kids should play grass roots until at least year 7 and then academies come into play then. As for my lad? That day release has to be very worthwhile in a number of ways, because if it isn't he won't be missing his education. Simple as that. Great,sensible post.It amazes me how many people think missing part of your education isn't anything to worry about. |
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Post by nottsover60 on May 12, 2022 17:48:33 GMT
I'm talking about pre 17s who negotiate 3 days of day release to train at the club missing more than half their school education which in reality is more as you can't do 5 days of maths and English when you are missing 3 of them. It's not surprising that these boys start off as above average at school but at 16 achieve less than the national average. When you are released from a club and all the social skills you have have been gained at the club instead of on the playground or as one of 30 in a class where do you go for support? I'm not sure it's that much time is it? Before the pandemic I'd get the train to work from Crewe and you'd see academy players on there 1/2 days a week. Tom Sparrow was one and he'd be on there 2 days a week I think and I'm guessing with the timeframe he'd have been 15/16. They get loads of support from the clubs from knowledge. Both local clubs have links with Staffs Uni to get their released players on to degrees if that's what they want and meet the criteria. And as I said when I was at college 2003-2005 I think it was, Pato and Rooney were there too. That won't have changed. There are also BTEC programmes they can do. They do their coaching badges. They probably get more support than your average child. It was definitely said by Holden the other day that Tezgel spends 3 days with Stoke on day release. I don't know if it varies according to ability or parental wishes. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2022 17:52:37 GMT
I'm not sure it's that much time is it? Before the pandemic I'd get the train to work from Crewe and you'd see academy players on there 1/2 days a week. Tom Sparrow was one and he'd be on there 2 days a week I think and I'm guessing with the timeframe he'd have been 15/16. They get loads of support from the clubs from knowledge. Both local clubs have links with Staffs Uni to get their released players on to degrees if that's what they want and meet the criteria. And as I said when I was at college 2003-2005 I think it was, Pato and Rooney were there too. That won't have changed. There are also BTEC programmes they can do. They do their coaching badges. They probably get more support than your average child. It was definitely said by Holden the other day that Tezgel spends 3 days with Stoke on day release. I don't know if it varies according to ability or parental wishes. I would imagine he's a special case. |
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Post by nottsover60 on May 12, 2022 17:55:45 GMT
I'm talking about pre 17s who negotiate 3 days of day release to train at the club missing more than half their school education which in reality is more as you can't do 5 days of maths and English when you are missing 3 of them. It's not surprising that these boys start off as above average at school but at 16 achieve less than the national average. When you are released from a club and all the social skills you have have been gained at the club instead of on the playground or as one of 30 in a class where do you go for support? You get a job so that you can support yourself. But for 5 years everything has been done for you, you've thought you are going to be fantastically rich and you have no qualifications |
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Post by leicspotter on May 12, 2022 17:58:46 GMT
All these kids have parents/guardians who should surely be looking out for their best interests...like Bunny clearly does for his lad.
The club has a responsibility of course, but so do parents
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2022 18:02:30 GMT
You get a job so that you can support yourself. But for 5 years everything has been done for you, you've thought you are going to be fantastically rich and you have no qualifications Then they're a bit of an idiot imo. They know the risk-reward. They get the chance to qualifications. If they left an academy at 18 with no quals then that's totally on them. |
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Post by anchorman on May 12, 2022 21:31:31 GMT
The absolute brass neck of him. Did he write all this with a straight face? He had no interest in them Front of house was his philosophy and fuck the rest [ Of course his philosophy was front of house & thank god it was. He had his hands full ensuring we were as successful as we were. He bought Ryan Shawcross, a raw 17 yr old kid who he made captain and ended up a Stoke legend, Wiko,Dickinson, Shotts, etc….they had to be good enough end of. However, for all those who love academy football or as I call it factory football we see it churned out every other week with sideways, backward passes, no intent and frankly no idea. I actually find it mildly amusing how people can actually have the brass neck to lay into our joint most successful manager ever..in fact it’s insane….especially in our current plight. We used to be feared, we used to be courageous, we used to be a bloody good team, the crowd used to be loud, passionate & energised…..and now, we’re so much better aren’t we, empty seats all over the place, a poor team and a manager (bless him) who just won’t get us promoted and the stench of apathy and hopelessness everywhere you look and a bouncing away every other week taking the piss as they rock up in the safe knowledge that there won’t be too much resistance in their quest for 3 points……we’ve become a bunch of losers pretty much how we were pre Tony Pulis ……academy or not! |
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on May 12, 2022 21:32:03 GMT
But for 5 years everything has been done for you, you've thought you are going to be fantastically rich and you have no qualifications Then they're a bit of an idiot imo. They know the risk-reward. They get the chance to qualifications. If they left an academy at 18 with no quals then that's totally on them. I wish I was that worldly when I was making such big decisions between the ages of 13 and 18. |
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 12, 2022 21:36:32 GMT
Then they're a bit of an idiot imo. They know the risk-reward. They get the chance to qualifications. If they left an academy at 18 with no quals then that's totally on them. I wish I was that worldly when I was making such big decisions between the ages of 13 and 18. Me too. I wasn’t, I was an idiot. |
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Post by BuzzB on May 12, 2022 22:47:40 GMT
The most sensible thing he's ever written or said. The truth is that every Emre Tezgel at every club needs 15 other players to play with and none of them are likely to make it as a professional footballer yet will have been sold the dream and sacrificed their education for it. In my opinion they should not be allowed day release from school, they need the education but also the social and life skills that they can only learn in a normal school away from elite football. Football development should start at 16. Pulis's idea is an alternative but I'm not sure it would work entirely. I like Palace's idea of three years of contact and support for released players who don't get another club. They don't have to sacrifice their education. Indeed when I was at college, Paterson and Rooney were there too. Education has been a big part of the academy process for some time. When I was 16, working as a trainee manager on a potbank I was sent for day release to a college in Rectory Road Shelton. In my class back then were Russell Bromage and Neville Chamberlain, we were studying Businesss Law. Tuition amongst young footballers has always been a priority in their apprenticeship (as was) |
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 12, 2022 23:38:06 GMT
It's absolutely no different to drama schools, who will have a fresh intake of 9k a year students. One in thousands become a star and the teenagers think it's going to be them. Just the way the world works I'm afraid. It is though because kids at drama schools don't have everything done for them. What does that teach kids in football academies about life? Yes, you have to work incredibly hard to stand a chance of becoming a professional footballer, but at the top academies, everything the kids need is put on a plate for them, and a lot more besides (such as the limo example). Pupils in drama schools generally muck in a lot more. The rejection side isn't different, but the way these potential careers are presented to children is completely different in football, in a way that many don't seem ready for a life outside of football or below what they dreamed/expected (take some recent young ex-Stoke players as an example). Rejection and failure should be an accepted part of life - failure in that it isn't the be all and end all if we learn from it, improve and try again. If we are talking 18-24 year olds, drama school students have it much harder. They all have to move to London, live on peanuts if mum and dad aren’t rich. And ultimately, never get anywhere with it. 18-24 year olds in academies earn a wage. |
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Post by noustie on May 13, 2022 13:03:23 GMT
Not 100% of the ins and outs but they came up with a good thing up here about 10 year ago that's now, hopefully, bearing fruit: www.scottishfa.co.uk/performance/jd-performance-schools/Basically you get picked up by your regional performance school if you're good enough and then there's a balance between education and training. From there the affiliated clubs can take them on so have input in the training plus then take over at the weekends. Alternatively the kids can just go down the traditional route of shit or bust in the team youth set-up. Gilmour and Patterson both came through there and Morrison is highly rated at Bayern - there was also 10 from the schools in last U21 squad so they're filtering through. Lowry at Rangers is 18 and looks the absolute bollocks too: |
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Post by maine on May 13, 2022 17:14:10 GMT
I remember TP on the field. If his dad 'found the time' to watch him 'play football' it wouldn't have put him out all that much.
I support much of what he says now about academies.
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Post by jokker on May 13, 2022 18:49:49 GMT
Is Tony Pulis the Alfred Nobel of the 21st century...?
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Post by cmc89 on May 13, 2022 21:28:41 GMT
I think the case of the Man City player is obviously tragic but from my knowledge of the academy system these clubs do so much already to help these players. Yes they can cast aside like bits of meat and that is horrible but a club like Man City will make sure they have options. I know Stoke and Vale have links with Staffs Uni where academy players can get on to degrees if they're released and meet the criteria. It's not like there's nothing there. Also it's about the individual too I guess. Some will be academically gifted, others won't be, some will be lazy and see it as a chore etc. That's normal for anyone at that age for education. While it’s terrible that one young boy killed himself, is there any good, reliable data out there to show that these kids are at an increased risk of suicide than those in the general population? The best evidence comes from American college studies where suicide rates are lower for elite athletes in this age group. Incidentally, they're much higher for athletes who make it professionally and then leave (injury, retire etc..). We don't have these studies from the UK but suicide amongst under 18s is thankfully incredibly rare. That makes it hard to make get any "good reliable data" from these tragedies. |
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Post by nottsover60 on May 13, 2022 21:47:12 GMT
They don't have to sacrifice their education. Indeed when I was at college, Paterson and Rooney were there too. Education has been a big part of the academy process for some time. When I was 16, working as a trainee manager on a potbank I was sent for day release to a college in Rectory Road Shelton. In my class back then were Russell Bromage and Neville Chamberlain, we were studying Businesss Law. Tuition amongst young footballers has always been a priority in their apprenticeship (as was) Again you are talking about young footballers past school leaving age who are like any other apprentice in other professions, continuing their education on day release from their job as an apprentice. I am talking young players of school age who can negotiate up to 3 days a week day release from their compulsory education before taking GCSE's at 16. |
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Post by dirtclod on May 14, 2022 1:09:45 GMT
Is Tony Pulis the Alfred Nobel of the 21st century...? I just nearly hemorrhaged laughing at that. Seriously |
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Post by Pugsley on May 14, 2022 7:48:16 GMT
The absolute brass neck of him. Did he write all this with a straight face? Name one player to come through the academy or be released under his tenure who has gone on to play at the same level or beyond? Facts rather than person opinions perhaps Ridiculous statement. In fact it's even more damning of the man. |
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Post by Pugsley on May 14, 2022 7:50:01 GMT
He had no interest in them Front of house was his philosophy and fuck the rest [ Of course his philosophy was front of house & thank god it was. He had his hands full ensuring we were as successful as we were. He bought Ryan Shawcross, a raw 17 yr old kid who he made captain and ended up a Stoke legend, Wiko,Dickinson, Shotts, etc….they had to be good enough end of. However, for all those who love academy football or as I call it factory football we see it churned out every other week with sideways, backward passes, no intent and frankly no idea. I actually find it mildly amusing how people can actually have the brass neck to lay into our joint most successful manager ever..in fact it’s insane….especially in our current plight. We used to be feared, we used to be courageous, we used to be a bloody good team, the crowd used to be loud, passionate & energised…..and now, we’re so much better aren’t we, empty seats all over the place, a poor team and a manager (bless him) who just won’t get us promoted and the stench of apathy and hopelessness everywhere you look and a bouncing away every other week taking the piss as they rock up in the safe knowledge that there won’t be too much resistance in their quest for 3 points……we’ve become a bunch of losers pretty much how we were pre Tony Pulis ……academy or not! Wilko, Dicko, Shotts... Stoke legends?????? I've heard it all. |
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Post by jokker on May 14, 2022 9:13:57 GMT
I'm still trying to understand how Pulis comes to be the author of this research project. Did the FA or another instutution pick him of all people to do this or is this just his farewell note to the game, i.e. 'look I may never have used the academy system in my life, but at least I have exposed all the other plunkers who did exactly the same'...?
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