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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 13, 2022 15:48:38 GMT
Mark Travers Bournemouth goalie, saved 78 per cent of shots in the championship last season Marek rodak Fulham 75 per cent Bonham Stoke 68 per cent Bursik Stoke 58 per cent It's not his age that's the problem , mark Travers is born 1999 (bursik 2000) and is the Irish youth goalie ( can't be far off full international now ?) , He is only one year older than bursik The problem is bursik's ability to save shots in the championship The chances of bursik improving his shot saving by 20 per centage points to be at Travers level at Travers age in one season, is remote , in the extreme. Hope I am wrong bit But I can't see it The problem with them stats are the situation. They might all be shots from out side of the box or easier saves to make where as bursik could of been harder chances. A better defence would limit the harder chances possibly leaving the opposition to try and take pop shots from anywhere. Such things can be adjusted for though (for example, by taking something like xG into account) and will also likely average out more over the course of a season. More complicated modeling has suggested that Bursik is below par for shot stopping.
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Post by northernstokie on Jul 13, 2022 15:57:56 GMT
The problem with them stats are the situation. They might all be shots from out side of the box or easier saves to make where as bursik could of been harder chances. A better defence would limit the harder chances possibly leaving the opposition to try and take pop shots from anywhere. Such things can be adjusted for though (for example, by taking something like xG into account) and will also likely average out more over the course of a season. More complicated modeling has suggested that Bursik is below par for shot stopping. I'm not disagreeing hes been a bit below par nor am I saying he's as good as the other too. Just think the guy might benefit from being number one and knowing his place is safe. So many keepers have said over the years they are better when knowing they are the number one.
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Post by Do it for dobing on Jul 13, 2022 16:27:55 GMT
What an appalling thread, a minority of our so called ‘supporters’ are the pits ! Joe Bursik is 22 years of age and an England International at his level, ok, he makes mistakes ! What keeper doesn’t? Cut him some slack, at his age he’s still 4/5 years from reaching at his peak, I bet Sir Gordon was similar at 22 years of age and look what he became ! I’m not advocating that Joe will become a Gordon, but who knows what the future holds for the lad, just give him an opportunity without destroying his confidence in the meantime. Good Luck Joe ! He has unfortunately not performed well in his short tenor at Stoke.He has had an opportunity in the first team and not performed.If he gets the jersey this season he has to improve for Stoke to stand a chance of a top half finish .We are not a free scoring side who can carry a young underperforming goalkeeper. Gordon Banks is in a different league to young Bursik, if Bursik ever became half as good as Banks he would be a good keeper.Also Banks said he would have played for nothing he loved the game so much, not sure Bursik has that passion.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jul 16, 2022 12:55:18 GMT
The unfortunate thing with goalkeepers is they're either in or out - you can't nurture them through substitute appearances or picking games that might be best suited tactically to them.
Bursik - unfortunately - has not shown himself to live up to his billing over any extended spell at Stoke - and 'needs games ' is not luxury you can afford to that position if you're serious about progress.
This is his make or break season at Stoke - I fully expect O'Niell to start with him and give him the first few games. If he takes his chance - great - everyone's happy (except maybe Bonham) - but if he doesn't maybe a move would be in his best interests - he wouldn't be the first - Foster and Bachmann both spring to mind.
It's not personal - it's just sensible.
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Post by biddulphchav on Jul 16, 2022 13:16:16 GMT
When Bursik first came in, he was excellent, we were all saying what a fantastic prospect we have here. Then he makes a mistake and the manager decided that any mistake by our keepers was punishable by dropping them. From then on, we had almost no consistency with any keeper that played, whether that be Davies, Bursik or even Bonham. I've said on another thread before, for me there is no coincidence that under MoN, our keepers have ALL being poor and I personally put that down to confidence due to how the MoN manages them and the position. The mistakes he did were because he quickly became big-headed He was excellent, I agree. But he didn’t just make one mistake, he made several mistakes over a period of time. He didn’t seem to be learning from them, and so maybe MON removed him from the firing line to protect him? He brought him back in but he continued to make mistakes, and so he’s been in and out of the team. On performances alone, he doesn’t deserve to be No.1, but I think we’re persisting with him because of his potential. He needs to earn his place and he needs to keep it through his performances on the pitch, like any player should.
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Post by spitshaw on Jul 16, 2022 13:36:49 GMT
Should have done better with that goal?
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 16, 2022 13:44:19 GMT
Don’t think it is. And without seeing the goal from an angle directly in front or behind no one will know if he should have saved it. He’s played over 30 games for us, has he had one game where the general opinion has been, “wow, he kept us in that?”
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2022 13:47:04 GMT
Don’t think it is. And without seeing the goal from an angle directly in front or behind no one will know if he should have saved it. He’s played over 30 games for us, has he had one game where the general opinion has been, “wow, he kept us in that?” The general opinion on keepers on here isn’t to be trusted. So I’m not sure it matters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 13:49:45 GMT
He’s played over 30 games for us, has he had one game where the general opinion has been, “wow, he kept us in that?” The general opinion on keepers on here isn’t to be trusted. So I’m not sure it matters. Bit ironic.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jul 16, 2022 13:50:16 GMT
He’s played over 30 games for us, has he had one game where the general opinion has been, “wow, he kept us in that?” The general opinion on keepers on here isn’t to be trusted. So I’m not sure it matters. When a player has a very good game, it’s hard to miss. People may not rate a player throughout the course of a season, but I honestly can’t remember a time when I felt a Stoke goalkeeper had a very good game apart from Davies at QPR. Even that wasn’t outstanding.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 13:57:18 GMT
The general opinion on keepers on here isn’t to be trusted. So I’m not sure it matters. When a player has a very good game, it’s hard to miss. People may not rate a player throughout the course of a season, but I honestly can’t remember a time when I felt a Stoke goalkeeper had a very good game apart from Davies at QPR. Even that wasn’t outstanding. Sad thing is with Bursik...every strike on target I half expect to beat him and usually does. Ridiculous some blaming the defence for his actual inability to stop shots he should save
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Post by cobhamstokey on Jul 16, 2022 14:01:36 GMT
was down the gym so missed the second half what did it end up?
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Post by robwahlmann on Jul 16, 2022 14:03:46 GMT
Bursik looked steady today, but didn't have much to do either.
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Post by march4 on Jul 16, 2022 14:07:36 GMT
Looked very assured today. Commands his area like a more experienced keeper. Saved us from a defeat by stopping a one on one and another good chance.
We are watching the embryonic start of a keeper who will be a world star.
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Post by Do it for dobing on Jul 16, 2022 14:26:02 GMT
Looked very assured today. Commands his area like a more experienced keeper. Saved us from a defeat by stopping a one on one and another good chance. We are watching the embryonic start of a keeper who will be a world star. If only
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Post by tejstokie on Jul 16, 2022 14:38:21 GMT
The general opinion on keepers on here isn’t to be trusted. So I’m not sure it matters. Bit ironic. Bayern has the worst ability of seeing player's skill or athleticism in this forum for years. If he says they are shit, they are gonna be good. If he says they're good, they are gonna be shit. The most ironic post of the year to date.
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Post by tejstokie on Jul 16, 2022 14:41:29 GMT
When a player has a very good game, it’s hard to miss. People may not rate a player throughout the course of a season, but I honestly can’t remember a time when I felt a Stoke goalkeeper had a very good game apart from Davies at QPR. Even that wasn’t outstanding. Sad thing is with Bursik...every strike on target I half expect to beat him and usually does. Ridiculous some blaming the defence for his actual inability to stop shots he should save He sure has a decent pass and can play with the ball at his foot, a keepers #1 job. But yea, keeping the ball out of the net? He is a 50/50 liability if it's a shot on target 🎯
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 14:41:53 GMT
Looked very assured today. Commands his area like a more experienced keeper. Saved us from a defeat by stopping a one on one and another good chance. We are watching the embryonic start of a keeper who will be a world star. keep up the meds
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Post by mickstupp on Jul 16, 2022 15:14:06 GMT
Looked very assured today. Commands his area like a more experienced keeper. Saved us from a defeat by stopping a one on one and another good chance. We are watching the embryonic start of a keeper who will be a world star. The one on one was caused by his own hesitation.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 15:20:02 GMT
Looked very assured today. Commands his area like a more experienced keeper. Saved us from a defeat by stopping a one on one and another good chance. We are watching the embryonic start of a keeper who will be a world star. The one on one was caused by his own hesitation. Bit of a goalmouth scramble earlier he didn't come for. He really isn't good enough to be starting games.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2022 15:23:23 GMT
Bayern has the worst ability of seeing player's skill or athleticism in this forum for years. If he says they are shit, they are gonna be good. If he says they're good, they are gonna be shit. The most ironic post of the year to date. It’s not ironic in the slightest given I don’t actually rate Bursik that much 😂but some of the crap spoken about him on here is just daft.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 15:37:22 GMT
Bayern has the worst ability of seeing player's skill or athleticism in this forum for years. If he says they are shit, they are gonna be good. If he says they're good, they are gonna be shit. The most ironic post of the year to date. It’s not ironic in the slightest given I don’t actually rate Bursik that much 😂but some of the crap spoken about him on here is just daft. Again ironic 👍
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2022 15:39:54 GMT
It’s not ironic in the slightest given I don’t actually rate Bursik that much 😂but some of the crap spoken about him on here is just daft. Again ironic 👍 It’s not ironic. I’ve wanted him to play so we can sell him and make the most money we can. People don’t seem to have picked up on that and what it actually means
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Post by gawa on Jul 16, 2022 15:40:31 GMT
Don’t think it is. And without seeing the goal from an angle directly in front or behind no one will know if he should have saved it. He’s played over 30 games for us, has he had one game where the general opinion has been, “wow, he kept us in that?” Never. Last time I remember a keeper being the difference for Stoke was against QPR away last season when Davies had a great game. I really want to support Bursik and back him but so far there’s been absolutely no evidence. I’m not sure if it’s Michael O’Neil that’s the issue or if Bursik thinks he’s better than he is. But a loan to League One is what he needs right now and then reevaluate the situation after Christmas. We had a great start to the season in 2020/21 and then Davies got injured and Bursik shepherded in and the defence never looked confident after that point. The only time the defence looked confident the last 2 seasons was with Davies behind them, and he wasn’t even a particularly great championship keeper either. But certainly more inspiring than the current crop. Was on far too high wages though.
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Joe Bursik
Jul 16, 2022 15:53:30 GMT
via mobile
mr likes this
Post by theonlooker on Jul 16, 2022 15:53:30 GMT
My natural stance on anything related to football would be to support first before criticising, especially with young players.
However, his basic lack of shot stopping ability is more than a little concerning even at this young age. I expected him to come back roaring into pre season this time around but we seem to be seeing the same old mistakes and issues present.
It's akin to a striker that can do anything but score, a centre half that can do anything but defend and a midfielder that can do anything but pass.
Not many excuses would be offered for those players so I'm failing to see why they should be offered for a keeper?
I'm deeply concerned about our lack of quality and depth in this area.
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Post by clarkeda on Jul 16, 2022 16:04:00 GMT
The curious case of Joe Bursik.
Keepers who are good shot stoppers are ten fold around the leagues.
Everything else is where JB excels but his shot stopping is poor.
If we could improve his basic general shot stopping the sky is the limit
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 16:20:45 GMT
It’s not ironic. I’ve wanted him to play so we can sell him and make the most money we can. People don’t seem to have picked up on that and what it actually means I've picked up on it but I still don't see how playing a player who keeps letting goals in he should be saving increases in value. Please explain.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2022 16:23:34 GMT
It’s not ironic. I’ve wanted him to play so we can sell him and make the most money we can. People don’t seem to have picked up on that and what it actually means I've picked up on it but I still don't see how playing a player who keeps letting goals in he should be saving increases in value. Please explain. I don’t think it’s happened as often as you seem to think and playing him and giving him a run would only help him. The chopping and changing of the goalkeepers has helped none of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2022 16:35:51 GMT
I've picked up on it but I still don't see how playing a player who keeps letting goals in he should be saving increases in value. Please explain. I don’t think it’s happened as often as you seem to think and playing him and giving him a run would only help him. The chopping and changing of the goalkeepers has helped none of them. So are you happy to go into the season with Bursik as number one and stick with him come what may? We'll probably have no choice in truth because I don't see anyone coming in for him.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jul 16, 2022 16:45:32 GMT
I don’t think it’s happened as often as you seem to think and playing him and giving him a run would only help him. The chopping and changing of the goalkeepers has helped none of them. So are you happy to go into the season with Bursik as number one and stick with him come what may? We'll probably have no choice in truth because I don't see anyone coming in for him. I’m not arsed tbh. I think it’s what should have happened last season and if we don’t sign a keeper he’s the best option by a mile. MON royally fucked it up last season.
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