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Post by LGH87 on May 10, 2022 12:52:36 GMT
If Allen stays I'll be absolutely livid. Just fuck him off - we've been having the same conversation for half a decade. And we're bottom half of the Championship. Nail on head this.
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Post by FullerMagic on May 10, 2022 12:53:57 GMT
Allen & Vrancic getting new deals stinks of us constantly handing deals to the likes of Cameron, Johnson etc. When it was clear it was time for them to go and we just wouldn't. Proves once again lessons still have not been learned. We probably had no choice with Vrancic once he played x games though - and looks 99% sure Allen will go.
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Post by tommycarlsberg on May 10, 2022 13:01:31 GMT
If Allen stays I'll be absolutely livid. Just fuck him off - we've been having the same conversation for half a decade. And we're bottom half of the Championship. Nail on head this. Conversely, if he leaves I'll be absolutely buzzing. He's been the heartbeat of our team of our team for far too long and not good enough. Baker will have to show what he's made of over the course of an enitre Championship season and hopefully some smart additions around him.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 10, 2022 13:36:31 GMT
Allen & Vrancic getting new deals stinks of us constantly handing deals to the likes of Cameron, Johnson etc. When it was clear it was time for them to go and we just wouldn't. Proves once again lessons still have not been learned. And you can guarantee their replacements will be better? They have been two of our better performers this season and the comparison with Johnson and Cameron doesn't make sense. Johnson was past it for Premiership football and Cameron was only ever just good enough when at his best - neither Allen nor Vrancic look past it and both are good footballers at this level. If the money side is fine there is no reason to get rid - unless we can somehow magic up better and personally I don't believe in magic.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 10, 2022 13:41:27 GMT
Allen & Vrancic getting new deals stinks of us constantly handing deals to the likes of Cameron, Johnson etc. When it was clear it was time for them to go and we just wouldn't. Proves once again lessons still have not been learned. And you can guarantee their replacements will be better? They have been two of our better performers this season and the comparison with Johnson and Cameron doesn't make sense. Johnson was past it for Premiership football and Cameron was only ever just good enough when at his best - neither Allen nor Vrancic look past it and both are good footballers at this level. If the money side is fine there is no reason to get rid - unless we can somehow magic up better and personally I don't believe in magic. We signed a better midfielder on a free in January than Allen. We have a better attacking midfielder already than Vrancic.
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Post by karl on May 10, 2022 13:43:03 GMT
i may be reading far too much into it, but the statement from Stoke didn't sound like any were going to return either. Read like that to me too Sounds like the loan players will not be returning for another season so we start all over again.
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Post by werrington on May 10, 2022 13:46:28 GMT
All loanees gone too i see, Sawyers. Maja etc i may be reading far too much into it, but the statement from Stoke didn't sound like any were going to return either. They aren’t Stoke players so it’s not Stokes call I’ll pretty much guarantee 99% of all loan players at clubs will have no idea where they’ll be playing their football next season It’s not unique to Stoke
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Post by nottsover60 on May 10, 2022 14:05:36 GMT
He looked miles off the required standard to me. I’m sorry. Let’s hope he improves and comes back better for the experience. As I say, ridiculous to write him off at 19 after 1 game. Unfortunately if at 19 you look way off when you make your debut I would say the likelihood is that you won't make it at that level. It's a hard thing to say but you expect a 19 year old who is going to succeed to be really pushing for a place in the team. The fact they are trying to convert him from a midfielder to a wing back suggests they have already decided he isn't good enough for our midfield. You only have to look at Kaide Gordon who joined Liverpool from Derby last summer at 16. He has already played four games for them including the Carabou semi final and scored his first goal. Now 17 even he might not make it but he's a lot closer than Porter or Sparrow. Also compare him to our own Tymon who at 19 had already made a handful of Premier and Championship matches yet was considered not good enough so sent out on loan at 18. Admittedly through hard work and a manger who believed in him he has succeeded but it's taken 4 years of determination. Sparrow hasn't yet at 19 got to the stage Tymon was at at 18. It's a harsh fact that good young footballers don't generally make it. They need a bit more than technique and ability.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 10, 2022 14:24:28 GMT
As I say, ridiculous to write him off at 19 after 1 game. Unfortunately if at 19 you look way off when you make your debut I would say the likelihood is that you won't make it at that level. It's a hard thing to say but you expect a 19 year old who is going to succeed to be really pushing for a place in the team. The fact they are trying to convert him from a midfielder to a wing back suggests they have already decided he isn't good enough for our midfield. You only have to look at Kaide Gordon who joined Liverpool from Derby last summer at 16. He has already played four games for them including the Carabou semi final and scored his first goal. Now 17 even he might not make it but he's a lot closer than Porter or Sparrow. Also compare him to our own Tymon who at 19 had already made a handful of Premier and Championship matches yet was considered not good enough so sent out on loan at 18. Admittedly through hard work and a manger who believed in him he has succeeded but it's taken 4 years of determination. Sparrow hasn't yet at 19 got to the stage Tymon was at at 18. It's a harsh fact that good young footballers don't generally make it. They need a bit more than technique and ability. I don't think it suggests that at all having seen him play there. It suggests they're absolutely desperate imo. He's been hung out to dry. It's a common theme with this manager and young players.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 10, 2022 14:37:10 GMT
Unfortunately if at 19 you look way off when you make your debut I would say the likelihood is that you won't make it at that level. It's a hard thing to say but you expect a 19 year old who is going to succeed to be really pushing for a place in the team. The fact they are trying to convert him from a midfielder to a wing back suggests they have already decided he isn't good enough for our midfield. You only have to look at Kaide Gordon who joined Liverpool from Derby last summer at 16. He has already played four games for them including the Carabou semi final and scored his first goal. Now 17 even he might not make it but he's a lot closer than Porter or Sparrow. Also compare him to our own Tymon who at 19 had already made a handful of Premier and Championship matches yet was considered not good enough so sent out on loan at 18. Admittedly through hard work and a manger who believed in him he has succeeded but it's taken 4 years of determination. Sparrow hasn't yet at 19 got to the stage Tymon was at at 18. It's a harsh fact that good young footballers don't generally make it. They need a bit more than technique and ability. I don't think it suggests that at all having seen him play there. It suggests they're absolutely desperate imo. He's been hung out to dry. It's a common theme with this manager and young players. We'll revisit him this time next year. I know you and I have had similar conversations about MON's treatment of young players before but the only proof they are good enough is if they make it or not and not necessarily at Stoke. Next year Sparrow will be 20 and we should have a very good idea of where his career is going but having seen him on Saturday I couldn't see anything to suggest he would make it here in any position. Tymon was way ahead of him at a similar age and situation at the club and also showed in his few matches at 18 far more fight and determination. We are not principally a training school for young players, we are a professional football club who can only play young players if it is beneficial to the team and if they are good enough for the club to succeed. I was amazed Sparrow was given the whole game. After 15 minutes I said that he'd got to be taken off he was so obviously not good enough. If the match had mattered I'm sure he wouldn't have come out for the second half but I think MON didn't want to do that to save his blushes and reorganised slightly to help the lad moving Clucas over there. The ignomony Tymon had of being substituted before half time by Jones seemed to fire him up to prove himself which he has done. Learning harsh lessons at a young age is sometimes a good thing.
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Post by AlbertTatlock on May 10, 2022 15:07:21 GMT
So that's 10 down now with the loanees going back, Allen and Vrancic still to be decided on could make it a dozen, we still have Etebo to welcome back though. Play-offs next season anybody? Gouranga.
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Post by gingerninja on May 10, 2022 15:10:51 GMT
So how many players realistically do we need?. I think it's a bit strange we haven't heard a peep from MON for about 3 weeks now. I know he's had an operation and is recuperating, but that doesn't stop you giving interviews. I know many are saying otherwise, but something is definitely up behind the scenes 😉.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 10, 2022 15:38:39 GMT
And you can guarantee their replacements will be better? They have been two of our better performers this season and the comparison with Johnson and Cameron doesn't make sense. Johnson was past it for Premiership football and Cameron was only ever just good enough when at his best - neither Allen nor Vrancic look past it and both are good footballers at this level. If the money side is fine there is no reason to get rid - unless we can somehow magic up better and personally I don't believe in magic. We signed a better midfielder on a free in January than Allen. We have a better attacking midfielder already than Vrancic. Baker was something of a bargain but part of his value to the team was the partnership he formed with Allen. The idea that you need one good attacking midfielder is nonsense, especially when your supposedly better midfielder has been injured half the season and has put in some mares. If you can guarantee better players than Allen and Vrancic coming in I'll concede the point - but you can't because at this level they are both very good players who will be hard to replace.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 10, 2022 15:46:04 GMT
We signed a better midfielder on a free in January than Allen. We have a better attacking midfielder already than Vrancic. Baker was something of a bargain but part of his value to the team was the partnership he formed with Allen. The idea that you need one good attacking midfielder is nonsense, especially when your supposedly better midfielder has been injured half the season and has put in some mares. If you can guarantee better players than Allen and Vrancic coming in I'll concede the point - but you can't because at this level they are both very good players who will be hard to replace. I never said we needed just one. Just that we have a better one already so it’s not too unrealistic that we can get another better one. Allen has generally been poxy for us. Thompson can do his job and he’s average at best. I expect it will be easy to replace Allen. And a tad harder to get a better player than Vrancic.
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Post by southcoaststokie on May 10, 2022 16:12:37 GMT
Great news, getting 4 older players on good money off the books, all they have to do now is replace them with good, young, quick players and get a lot more pace in the team
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Post by crouchpotato1 on May 10, 2022 16:36:55 GMT
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Post by Bojan Mackey on May 10, 2022 16:54:39 GMT
If Joe Allen stays then this club deserves everything that’s coming it’s way.
Stoke City, always backwards, sometimes stagnant, never forwards.
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 10, 2022 17:20:55 GMT
So no immediate announcement that we've triggered Powell's extra year. Could indicate we're trying to sort something out on lower terms, either for 12 months or maybe for a longer period? It'll be more than a 1 year option deal when it's announced.
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Post by wilcopotter on May 10, 2022 17:24:41 GMT
So how many players realistically do we need?. I think it's a bit strange we haven't heard a peep from MON for about 3 weeks now. I know he's had an operation and is recuperating, but that doesn't stop you giving interviews. I know many are saying otherwise, but something is definitely up behind the scenes 😉. I was thinking this too, noticed after the game Saturday he got himself to the dug out, looked a bit like a fish out of water and seemingly little interaction with the players. Sometimes you can look too much into these type of things and he could’ve just been leaving the plaudits to the players. But like you, I think something seems a bit odd.
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Post by iamstokie on May 10, 2022 17:31:17 GMT
You certainly haven't shown him any encouragement. Kids should be praised and encouraged, he is human. I’m merely giving my opinion of his performance on Saturday, which sadly wasn’t very good. You can’t just praise for the sake of it. I wanted him to do well but he didn’t, simple as that. Spot on , just because you point out he’s had a bad game doesn’t mean you’re writing a player off , just telling the truth about his performance
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 10, 2022 17:58:35 GMT
So no immediate announcement that we've triggered Powell's extra year. Could indicate we're trying to sort something out on lower terms, either for 12 months or maybe for a longer period? It'll be more than a 1 year option deal when it's announced. Oh Hackett I do hope you’re right.
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Post by robstokie on May 10, 2022 18:01:19 GMT
Allen & Vrancic getting new deals stinks of us constantly handing deals to the likes of Cameron, Johnson etc. When it was clear it was time for them to go and we just wouldn't. Proves once again lessons still have not been learned. We probably had no choice with Vrancic once he played x games though - and looks 99% sure Allen will go. Can't say I'm too disappointed to keep Vrancic as cover next season - think that due to circumstance he was overplayed and played out of position on occasion too. As back up for (hopefully) a fully fit Powell, coming on for 20 minutes here and there to allow us to manage Powell or try something different, as well as maybe starting the occasional game, he will be fine - his form at the start of the season, particularly at home was tremendous and he made the difference in a number of tight games at our place too! As for Allen, hopefully he will go to Swansea - nothing against him, but we need to move on and bring in someone who can compete physically and is an actual ball winner, someone who we can also look to develop for the future too - we are crying out for a proper holding mid and as long as Allen is at the club, MON will see him as the answer, even though it's proven time and again it doesn't work!
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Post by Goonie on May 10, 2022 18:17:20 GMT
Allen and Powell must keeps for me vranic no issue as a squad player , door opener or in tight games. And capable Stan in as s per Norwich , we made the mistake last year of debating exits , it’s unlikely we woild roulade any of these with better thats for sure Dyslexia is a cruel condition 😜 My fear is if Allen goes who can play the false 9? 🤔😁
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Post by Rick Grimes on May 10, 2022 19:45:14 GMT
I hope Allen turns us down in favour of Swansea.
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Post by robwahlmann on May 10, 2022 20:27:12 GMT
Vrancic?
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 11, 2022 7:59:14 GMT
Baker was something of a bargain but part of his value to the team was the partnership he formed with Allen. The idea that you need one good attacking midfielder is nonsense, especially when your supposedly better midfielder has been injured half the season and has put in some mares. If you can guarantee better players than Allen and Vrancic coming in I'll concede the point - but you can't because at this level they are both very good players who will be hard to replace. I never said we needed just one. Just that we have a better one already so it’s not too unrealistic that we can get another better one. Allen has generally been poxy for us. Thompson can do his job and he’s average at best. I expect it will be easy to replace Allen. And a tad harder to get a better player than Vrancic. OK if it's that easy name some realistic targets who would be an upgrade on Allen and Vrancic.
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Post by mickstupp on May 11, 2022 8:03:42 GMT
Great news, getting 4 older players on good money off the books, all they have to do now is replace them with good, young, quick players and get a lot more pace in the team Piece of piss
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 11, 2022 8:11:44 GMT
I never said we needed just one. Just that we have a better one already so it’s not too unrealistic that we can get another better one. Allen has generally been poxy for us. Thompson can do his job and he’s average at best. I expect it will be easy to replace Allen. And a tad harder to get a better player than Vrancic. OK if it's that easy name some realistic targets who would be an upgrade on Allen and Vrancic. The lad who went to Bournemouth from PNE and can't get a game. I forget his name. Rothwell Saywers. Elliot Anderson on loan from Castle Give DWP a bit of time of there and he could become better
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Post by greenhoff on May 11, 2022 8:17:46 GMT
OK if it's that easy name some realistic targets who would be an upgrade on Allen and Vrancic. The lad who went to Bournemouth from PNE and can't get a game. I forget his name. Rothwell Saywers. Elliot Anderson on loan from Castle Give DWP a bit of time of there and he could become better Ben Pearson.
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Post by kjpt140v on May 11, 2022 8:39:59 GMT
You certainly haven't shown him any encouragement. Kids should be praised and encouraged, he is human. I’m merely giving my opinion of his performance on Saturday, which sadly wasn’t very good. You can’t just praise for the sake of it. I wanted him to do well but he didn’t, simple as that. It's not praise it is encouragement, two different things.
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