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Post by kustokie on Mar 15, 2022 12:10:21 GMT
Our best midfield trio may be Powell (if he can ever get fit), Baker and Allen sitting behind them. Allen is not a premier league player in that position because he’s a poor tackler but he may be the best we can afford. That still leaves the problem of the wingbacks. Tymon and Smith are both converted full backs, who did well at wingback until the opposition teams worked out how to neutralize them - once that was accomplished our Plan A became ineffective - all teams had to do is sit back, defend and frustrate us before hitting us on a break away. We must have lost 20 points to teams that adopted those tactics.
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Post by davethebass on Mar 15, 2022 16:31:40 GMT
"Joe Allen-out of contract." My eyesight must be deteriorating. I read the OP Headline as "Joe Allen out of control". Maybe that's what the OP wanted to say.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 18:05:41 GMT
If we can sign him up on a reduced contract then I say keep him. If not then the situation will call for him to leave. Either way, he is a player who has only ever given 100% for this football club whilst being surrounded by countless shithouses, and some of the shit written about him on here has been fucking laughable in the extreme. I know one thing, when he doesn't play, we miss him. People will have their reasons why this is true, but it is. Did we miss him massively? We showed play-off form in his absence in 2020/21. We were absolutely fine without him last season and his return actually coincided with a downturn in form because him and Mikel was really not a great balance. This season, it's broadly a flip of a coin between him and Thompson. The balance of the midfield isn't his fault though is it? The balance of Wales' midfield isn't an issue when he plays for them, neither was Liverpool's or Swansea's I should imagine. We have had good performances with him in the side, we have had bad performances without him in the side. How I see it, is that since we have been in this division, we are a better team with him in midfield, and if, like you say its a coin toss between him and Thompson, I hope my coin falls with Joe Allen's face looking up at me everytime. He is streets ahead of Thompson, and I quite like Thompson.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2022 18:21:38 GMT
Did we miss him massively? We showed play-off form in his absence in 2020/21. We were absolutely fine without him last season and his return actually coincided with a downturn in form because him and Mikel was really not a great balance. This season, it's broadly a flip of a coin between him and Thompson. The balance of the midfield isn't his fault though is it? The balance of Wales' midfield isn't an issue when he plays for them, neither was Liverpool's or Swansea's I should imagine. We have had good performances with him in the side, we have had bad performances without him in the side. How I see it, is that since we have been in this division, we are a better team with him in midfield, and if, like you say its a coin toss between him and Thompson, I hope my coin falls with Joe Allen's face looking up at me everytime. He is streets ahead of Thompson, and I quite like Thompson. It is when he goes charging off thinking he’s doing someone else’s job and creating even more of a problem, surely? It’s telling that with Baker here he now seems prepared to play that deeper, understated role and there is some balance there now. He was a totally different player for Swansea, if he’d been that player here he’d have been more or less just what we needed. It’s a shame he hasn’t been.
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Post by stokeyank on Mar 15, 2022 18:27:09 GMT
Did we miss him massively? We showed play-off form in his absence in 2020/21. We were absolutely fine without him last season and his return actually coincided with a downturn in form because him and Mikel was really not a great balance. This season, it's broadly a flip of a coin between him and Thompson. The balance of the midfield isn't his fault though is it? The balance of Wales' midfield isn't an issue when he plays for them, neither was Liverpool's or Swansea's I should imagine. We have had good performances with him in the side, we have had bad performances without him in the side. How I see it, is that since we have been in this division, we are a better team with him in midfield, and if, like you say its a coin toss between him and Thompson, I hope my coin falls with Joe Allen's face looking up at me everytime. He is streets ahead of Thompson, and I quite like Thompson. When he is in a more holding/defensive position we miss him, because as noted that is when our midfield is more balanced. He adds to it in that case. When he needs to be on the attack or in a primary playmaking role is when he tends not to do well. I've been a big critic of him in the past, mainly because he was shoved into that forward role and looked like crap in it. But if he's happy here on a reduced wage and he can sit with/behind Baker and/or Powell he's definitely worth signing up again.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 15, 2022 18:35:39 GMT
The balance of the midfield isn't his fault though is it? The balance of Wales' midfield isn't an issue when he plays for them, neither was Liverpool's or Swansea's I should imagine. We have had good performances with him in the side, we have had bad performances without him in the side. How I see it, is that since we have been in this division, we are a better team with him in midfield, and if, like you say its a coin toss between him and Thompson, I hope my coin falls with Joe Allen's face looking up at me everytime. He is streets ahead of Thompson, and I quite like Thompson. It is when he goes charging off thinking he’s doing someone else’s job and creating even more of a problem, surely? It’s telling that with Baker here he now seems prepared to play that deeper, understated role and there is some balance there now. He was a totally different player for Swansea, if he’d been that player here he’d have been more or less just what we needed. It’s a shame he hasn’t been. How long had Swansea been building up their football philosophy by then though? It must have been a few years, and Allen came through Swansea's youth ranks with that philosophy in mind, so he probably slotted in naturally.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2022 18:41:51 GMT
It is when he goes charging off thinking he’s doing someone else’s job and creating even more of a problem, surely? It’s telling that with Baker here he now seems prepared to play that deeper, understated role and there is some balance there now. He was a totally different player for Swansea, if he’d been that player here he’d have been more or less just what we needed. It’s a shame he hasn’t been. How long had Swansea been building up their football philosophy by then though? It must have been a few years, and Allen came through Swansea's youth ranks with that philosophy in mind, so he probably slotted in naturally. You’d have thought he might have channelled that experience as a more seasoned pro into his play here though?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 18:50:44 GMT
The balance of the midfield isn't his fault though is it? The balance of Wales' midfield isn't an issue when he plays for them, neither was Liverpool's or Swansea's I should imagine. We have had good performances with him in the side, we have had bad performances without him in the side. How I see it, is that since we have been in this division, we are a better team with him in midfield, and if, like you say its a coin toss between him and Thompson, I hope my coin falls with Joe Allen's face looking up at me everytime. He is streets ahead of Thompson, and I quite like Thompson. When he is in a more holding/defensive position we miss him, because as noted that is when our midfield is more balanced. He adds to it in that case. When he needs to be on the attack or in a primary playmaking role is when he tends not to do well. I've been a big critic of him in the past, mainly because he was shoved into that forward role and looked like crap in it. But if he's happy here on a reduced wage and he can sit with/behind Baker and/or Powell he's definitely worth signing up again. Again, your reply and Toxics before it, just proves my point that the balance isn't or never was Joe Allen's fault. For the record, and I've been one of Joe's biggest defenders on here, I wouldn't be too bothered if he left, but I know he would be a lot more difficult to replace than his detractors believe, and I'll repeat it, some of the shit spoken about him on here over the last few years has been an absolute joke.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2022 18:52:23 GMT
When he is in a more holding/defensive position we miss him, because as noted that is when our midfield is more balanced. He adds to it in that case. When he needs to be on the attack or in a primary playmaking role is when he tends not to do well. I've been a big critic of him in the past, mainly because he was shoved into that forward role and looked like crap in it. But if he's happy here on a reduced wage and he can sit with/behind Baker and/or Powell he's definitely worth signing up again. Again, your reply and Toxics before it, just proves my point that the balance isn't or never was Joe Allen's fault. For the record, and I've been one of Joe's biggest defenders on here, I wouldn't be too bothered if he left, but I know he would be a lot more difficult to replace than his detractors believe, and I'll repeat it, some of the shit spoken about him on here over the last few years has been an absolute joke. If he’s been as good as you say surely you’d be absolutely gutted to see him go?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2022 18:55:59 GMT
Again, your reply and Toxics before it, just proves my point that the balance isn't or never was Joe Allen's fault. For the record, and I've been one of Joe's biggest defenders on here, I wouldn't be too bothered if he left, but I know he would be a lot more difficult to replace than his detractors believe, and I'll repeat it, some of the shit spoken about him on here over the last few years has been an absolute joke. If he’s been as good as you say surely you’d be absolutely gutted to see him go? I haven't said he a world beater mate, just that, in my opinion, we miss him when he doesn't play. His age and wages, as they stand, are and will become an issue for us, so, like I said in my very first post on this thread, the situation may force our hand. If and when he does go, he goes with his head held high and I'd applaud him off the pitch, for only ever giving everything he's got for our Football Club. Sometimes that's not been good enough, but a lot of times he has been the stand out player amongst a dressing room full of absolute cunthooks.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 15, 2022 19:01:33 GMT
How long had Swansea been building up their football philosophy by then though? It must have been a few years, and Allen came through Swansea's youth ranks with that philosophy in mind, so he probably slotted in naturally. You’d have thought he might have channelled that experience as a more seasoned pro into his play here though? Who's to say he hasn't? I think it was this thread where I said Allen makes Baker look better and Baker makes Allen look better. Football is supposed to be a team sport, after all. Xavi and Pirlo at their peak would've struggled in some of our sides the past few years. Not that I'm in any way comparing Allen to either - Rodgers probably hung Allen out to dry a bit by calling him the "Welsh Xavi." Again, your reply and Toxics before it, just proves my point that the balance isn't or never was Joe Allen's fault. For the record, and I've been one of Joe's biggest defenders on here, I wouldn't be too bothered if he left, but I know he would be a lot more difficult to replace than his detractors believe, and I'll repeat it, some of the shit spoken about him on here over the last few years has been an absolute joke. If he’s been as good as you say surely you’d be absolutely gutted to see him go? I wouldn't be gutted to see Allen go either, largely because he's the only major cog left since our massive decline. But on the right wages, I think he could be a key player for us next season (although I don't think he'll be here).
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 15, 2022 19:04:18 GMT
You’d have thought he might have channelled that experience as a more seasoned pro into his play here though? Who's to say he hasn't? I think it was this thread where I said Allen makes Baker look better and Baker makes Allen look better. Football is supposed to be a team sport, after all. Xavi and Pirlo at their peak would've struggled in some of our sides the past few years. Not that I'm in any way comparing Allen to either - Rodgers probably hung Allen out to dry a bit by calling him the "Welsh Xavi." If he’s been as good as you say surely you’d be absolutely gutted to see him go? I wouldn't be gutted to see Allen go either, largely because he's the only major cog left since our massive decline. But on the right wages, I think he could be a key player for us next season (although I don't think he'll be here). I mean, he hasn’t. It’s the old Einstein definition of insanity (which he apparently never said). After five years of the dog with a balloon act and our midfield being a wasteland, could he not sensed that wasn’t working and have adapted and reverted to something resembling that metronomic player he was for Swansea?
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Post by stokiegav on Mar 16, 2022 13:04:06 GMT
Who's to say he hasn't? I think it was this thread where I said Allen makes Baker look better and Baker makes Allen look better. Football is supposed to be a team sport, after all. Xavi and Pirlo at their peak would've struggled in some of our sides the past few years. Not that I'm in any way comparing Allen to either - Rodgers probably hung Allen out to dry a bit by calling him the "Welsh Xavi." I wouldn't be gutted to see Allen go either, largely because he's the only major cog left since our massive decline. But on the right wages, I think he could be a key player for us next season (although I don't think he'll be here). I mean, he hasn’t. It’s the old Einstein definition of insanity (which he apparently never said). After five years of the dog with a balloon act and our midfield being a wasteland, could he not sensed that wasn’t working and have adapted and reverted to something resembling that metronomic player he was for Swansea? Surely that's exactly what the managers job is tho? I've never liked Joe Allen he's just not my sort of player but there's been a clear lack of direction from managers over the years. Cos if they were telling him one thing and he did the other he would surely never have been an ever present?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Mar 16, 2022 13:11:42 GMT
I mean, he hasn’t. It’s the old Einstein definition of insanity (which he apparently never said). After five years of the dog with a balloon act and our midfield being a wasteland, could he not sensed that wasn’t working and have adapted and reverted to something resembling that metronomic player he was for Swansea? Surely that's exactly what the managers job is tho? I've never liked Joe Allen he's just not my sort of player but there's been a clear lack of direction from managers over the years. Cos if they were telling him one thing and he did the other he would surely never have been an ever present? I'd love to know what his instructions were or what he'd been tasked to do because it hasn't been apparent for years. I don't imagine he'd have been dropped either way because his performances as they were merited a spell on the bench and none of them had the stones to do it.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 23, 2022 18:43:19 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-star-targeting-final-6851481Joe Allen is targeting one final hurrah with Stoke City before making an expected departure from the bet365 Stadium in the summer. The Potters captain, who is preparing for Wales’ crucial World Cup playoff encounter against Austria on Thursday, looks set to leave the club when his contract runs dry at the end of the season, having spent six years in North Staffordshire. Allen is one of Stoke’s highest earners, and whilst boss Michael O’Neill would be keen to retain the services of the tireless midfielder, on what would almost certainly have to be reduced terms, it’s understood the 32-year-old is keen to make a return closer to his Welsh roots as he approaches the twilight of his playing career.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 23, 2022 18:44:16 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-star-targeting-final-6851481Joe Allen is targeting one final hurrah with Stoke City before making an expected departure from the bet365 Stadium in the summer. The Potters captain, who is preparing for Wales’ crucial World Cup playoff encounter against Austria on Thursday, looks set to leave the club when his contract runs dry at the end of the season, having spent six years in North Staffordshire. Allen is one of Stoke’s highest earners, and whilst boss Michael O’Neill would be keen to retain the services of the tireless midfielder, on what would almost certainly have to be reduced terms, it’s understood the 32-year-old is keen to make a return closer to his Welsh roots as he approaches the twilight of his playing career. He was never going to stay, a clean break is best for all.......
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Post by nonameface on Mar 23, 2022 18:52:11 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-star-targeting-final-6851481Joe Allen is targeting one final hurrah with Stoke City before making an expected departure from the bet365 Stadium in the summer. The Potters captain, who is preparing for Wales’ crucial World Cup playoff encounter against Austria on Thursday, looks set to leave the club when his contract runs dry at the end of the season, having spent six years in North Staffordshire. Allen is one of Stoke’s highest earners, and whilst boss Michael O’Neill would be keen to retain the services of the tireless midfielder, on what would almost certainly have to be reduced terms, it’s understood the 32-year-old is keen to make a return closer to his Welsh roots as he approaches the twilight of his playing career. Things are looking up
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Post by theonlooker on Mar 23, 2022 18:54:14 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised to see him at Bristol City...
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Post by wakeypotter on Mar 23, 2022 18:55:37 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-star-targeting-final-6851481Joe Allen is targeting one final hurrah with Stoke City before making an expected departure from the bet365 Stadium in the summer. The Potters captain, who is preparing for Wales’ crucial World Cup playoff encounter against Austria on Thursday, looks set to leave the club when his contract runs dry at the end of the season, having spent six years in North Staffordshire. Allen is one of Stoke’s highest earners, and whilst boss Michael O’Neill would be keen to retain the services of the tireless midfielder, on what would almost certainly have to be reduced terms, it’s understood the 32-year-old is keen to make a return closer to his Welsh roots as he approaches the twilight of his playing career. Probably Swansea then.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Mar 23, 2022 18:56:21 GMT
Wouldn't be surprised to see him at Bristol City... Back to Swansea mate
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 23, 2022 19:01:34 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-star-targeting-final-6851481Joe Allen is targeting one final hurrah with Stoke City before making an expected departure from the bet365 Stadium in the summer. The Potters captain, who is preparing for Wales’ crucial World Cup playoff encounter against Austria on Thursday, looks set to leave the club when his contract runs dry at the end of the season, having spent six years in North Staffordshire. Allen is one of Stoke’s highest earners, and whilst boss Michael O’Neill would be keen to retain the services of the tireless midfielder, on what would almost certainly have to be reduced terms, it’s understood the 32-year-old is keen to make a return closer to his Welsh roots as he approaches the twilight of his playing career. Things are looking up They would be if it weren’t for the possibility of MON having another Romaine Sawyers moment.
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 23, 2022 19:51:14 GMT
Bursik Bonham
Duhaney
Tymon Fox
Wilmot Souttar Forrester Taylor Jagielka
Baker Clucas TOB Thompson
DWP Powell Vrancic
Campbell Brown
Looks like the only decisions we'll have are:
Brown (a no-brainer to take the option to extend if his contract really does expire this summer) Thompson (almost certainly will take option to extend) Powell (almost certainly will take extra year) Vrancic (more interesting, but odds are that we will?) Jagielka (could go either way, odds in favour of extra 12 months)
And wouldn't be shocked to see Clucas and Fox go as they enter their final year. Clucas will probably be on a more manageable, moveable contract than he was and is clearly not wanted.
No idea what the plan is for TOB and he'll be on low wages anyway
Must be close to zero chance of Smith, Fletcher and Chester staying?
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Post by iglugluk on Mar 23, 2022 19:52:56 GMT
They would be if it weren’t for the possibility of MON having another Romaine Sawyers moment.
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Mar 23, 2022 19:55:03 GMT
They would be if it weren’t for the possibility of MON having another Romaine Sawyers moment. We need a proper deep lying midfielder, preferably one with more physical presence than Joe Allen and definitely nothing like Romaine Sawyers.
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Post by iglugluk on Mar 23, 2022 19:57:07 GMT
We need a proper deep lying midfielder, preferably one with more physical presence than Joe Allen and definitely nothing like Romaine Sawyers. Absolutely.. just need to get the manager onboard with that thought process
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Didcot Stokie
Academy Starlet
I am the one you warned me of...
Posts: 140
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Post by Didcot Stokie on Mar 23, 2022 20:00:42 GMT
Bursik Bonham
Duhaney
Tymon FoxWilmot Souttar Forrester Taylor Jagielka Baker Clucas TOB Thompson DWP Powell Vrancic Campbell BrownLooks like the only decisions we'll have are: Brown (a no-brainer to take the option to extend if his contract really does expire this summer) Thompson (almost certainly will take option to extend) Powell (almost certainly will take extra year) Vrancic (more interesting, but odds are that we will?) Jagielka (could go either way, odds in favour of extra 12 months) And wouldn't be shocked to see Clucas and Fox go as they enter their final year. Clucas will probably be on a more manageable, moveable contract than he was and is clearly not wanted. No idea what the plan is for TOB and he'll be on low wages anyway Must be close to zero chance of Smith, Fletcher and Chester staying? Quite a small squad when all the out of contract and loan players are taken out. MON might try and sign Sawyers? Plus Etebo and Adobe back, even if just to get another loan sorted! Did Bonham sign for more than a year?
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Post by Goonie on Mar 23, 2022 20:00:44 GMT
His best position is clearly the False number 9
I'll get me coat.......🧥
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 23, 2022 20:01:07 GMT
Bursik Bonham
Duhaney
Tymon FoxWilmot Souttar Forrester Taylor Jagielka Baker Clucas TOB Thompson DWP Powell Vrancic Campbell BrownLooks like the only decisions we'll have are: Brown (a no-brainer to take the option to extend if his contract really does expire this summer) Thompson (almost certainly will take option to extend) Powell (almost certainly will take extra year) Vrancic (more interesting, but odds are that we will?) Jagielka (could go either way, odds in favour of extra 12 months) And wouldn't be shocked to see Clucas and Fox go as they enter their final year. Clucas will probably be on a more manageable, moveable contract than he was and is clearly not wanted. No idea what the plan is for TOB and he'll be on low wages anyway Must be close to zero chance of Smith, Fletcher and Chester staying? I reckon he'll let Vrancic go with the aim of signing Sawyers permanently. Doughty should be back in contention, would like to see him on the left of a front 3.
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Post by wakeypotter on Mar 23, 2022 20:06:24 GMT
Bursik Bonham
Duhaney
Tymon FoxWilmot Souttar Forrester Taylor Jagielka Baker Clucas TOB Thompson DWP Powell Vrancic Campbell BrownLooks like the only decisions we'll have are: Brown (a no-brainer to take the option to extend if his contract really does expire this summer) Thompson (almost certainly will take option to extend) Powell (almost certainly will take extra year) Vrancic (more interesting, but odds are that we will?) Jagielka (could go either way, odds in favour of extra 12 months) And wouldn't be shocked to see Clucas and Fox go as they enter their final year. Clucas will probably be on a more manageable, moveable contract than he was and is clearly not wanted. No idea what the plan is for TOB and he'll be on low wages anyway Must be close to zero chance of Smith, Fletcher and Chester staying? Quite a small squad when all the out of contract and loan players are taken out. MON might try and sign Sawyers? Plus Etebo and Adobe back, even if just to get another loan sorted! Did Bonham sign for more than a year? Looks a bit depressing with what will be left
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 23, 2022 20:12:56 GMT
Bursik Bonham
Duhaney
Tymon FoxWilmot Souttar Forrester Taylor Jagielka Baker Clucas TOB Thompson DWP Powell Vrancic Campbell BrownLooks like the only decisions we'll have are: Brown (a no-brainer to take the option to extend if his contract really does expire this summer) Thompson (almost certainly will take option to extend) Powell (almost certainly will take extra year) Vrancic (more interesting, but odds are that we will?) Jagielka (could go either way, odds in favour of extra 12 months) And wouldn't be shocked to see Clucas and Fox go as they enter their final year. Clucas will probably be on a more manageable, moveable contract than he was and is clearly not wanted. No idea what the plan is for TOB and he'll be on low wages anyway Must be close to zero chance of Smith, Fletcher and Chester staying? I reckon he'll let Vrancic go with the aim of signing Sawyers permanently. Doughty should be back in contention, would like to see him on the left of a front 3. Yeah - forgot Doughty! West Brom have got an option on Sawyers, haven't they? But to trigger it, they'd presumably have to carry on paying him what they currently are, which will be excessive. So odds against, and - yeah can see MON going for him on a free although he's been a mixed bag to say the least. Bruce didn't seem to rule it out though. There's always the chance Vrancic's contract automatically gets an extra year if he plays a certain number of games (which he will have done?)
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