|
Post by Laughing Gravy on Apr 25, 2022 12:35:32 GMT
The reason he has had plenty of stick (including from me) on the past few years is that if you are paying someone Premier League wages, you need Premier League standard performances to justify it. That’s not happened obviously but if he is on reasonable money, then he’s definitely worth keeping - particularly given how well he works with Baker. Or we can go out sign someone younger and better and probably on less money too. Who?
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Apr 25, 2022 12:42:54 GMT
The reason he has had plenty of stick (including from me) on the past few years is that if you are paying someone Premier League wages, you need Premier League standard performances to justify it. That’s not happened obviously but if he is on reasonable money, then he’s definitely worth keeping - particularly given how well he works with Baker. Or we can go out sign someone younger and better and probably on less money too. Or, keep him on low wages and sign someone younger and better at tackling.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2022 12:43:23 GMT
It'd be interesting to know what level of deals we were offering, post-Covid and parachute money
All these lists of wages on the internet haven't got a clue.
But I'd be very surprised if we were going anywhere near £20k for anyone, even Lewis Baker, and definitely not 32yo Joe Allen?
|
|
|
Post by toppercorner on Apr 25, 2022 12:51:05 GMT
no.
Thanks for everything Joe, but we need a new direction.
|
|
|
Post by wuzza on Apr 25, 2022 12:58:02 GMT
Recency bias is massive amongst you lot haha. He's been crap for about 75% of his time at Stoke, this new deal would almost certainly put him at the top echelon's of the "pot covid alignment" of contracts. He's 32, his best days are behind him (of which many he was still shite for). This is the time now to finally part ways, shake hands and say goodbye. Get someone younger and more consistent. Is it just a coincidence that he's seen an upturn in form for the last 2 months of a 6 year 60k deal? Absolutely not the case as far as I’m concerned. In my opinion he has been consistently good in his time at this club - even in periods when some of those around him have let the side down noticeably.
|
|
|
Post by LGH87 on Apr 25, 2022 13:08:15 GMT
It'd be interesting to know what level of deals we were offering, post-Covid and parachute money All these lists of wages on the internet haven't got a clue. But I'd be very surprised if we were going anywhere near £20k for anyone, even Lewis Baker, and definitely not 32yo Joe Allen? You could guarantee he'd still be in the upper echelons of the bracket, whatever that may be. Money that can be better spent elsewhere. At 32, now is the perfect opportunity for us to part ways.
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Apr 25, 2022 13:13:51 GMT
I watched him closely on Saturday. He made some decent interceptions and a couple of good tackles but his passing was dreadful. We were very solid on the day, but our midfield has been paper weak since he joined.
In other words, he looked like an average second division midfielder. Six years and I still haven't seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck or dominate a midfield battle.
I respect that he's a fine professional and would send him on with warmest wishes, but I think both he and us need a change. From his perspective, sticking with us after relegation was probably the wrong thing to do.
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2022 13:14:12 GMT
No thanks, we need a different type of player in that midfield and he definitely isn't it. If he was willing to play for free for a season or two to make up for the mental money we've been paying him then he may be a useful squad player, other than that bye bye.
|
|
|
Post by jokker on Apr 25, 2022 13:22:36 GMT
It'd be interesting to know what level of deals we were offering, post-Covid and parachute money All these lists of wages on the internet haven't got a clue. But I'd be very surprised if we were going anywhere near £20k for anyone, even Lewis Baker, and definitely not 32yo Joe Allen? You could guarantee he'd still be in the upper echelons of the bracket, whatever that may be. Money that can be better spent elsewhere. At 32, now is the perfect opportunity for us to part ways. It's good, because Allen reached the same conclusion a while back. He wants to live in Wales.
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2022 13:24:19 GMT
You could guarantee he'd still be in the upper echelons of the bracket, whatever that may be. Money that can be better spent elsewhere. At 32, now is the perfect opportunity for us to part ways. It's good, because Allen reached the same conclusion a while back. He wants to live in Wales. Sentinel say he's very keen on staying at Stoke though
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2022 13:24:32 GMT
It'd be interesting to know what level of deals we were offering, post-Covid and parachute money All these lists of wages on the internet haven't got a clue. But I'd be very surprised if we were going anywhere near £20k for anyone, even Lewis Baker, and definitely not 32yo Joe Allen? You could guarantee he'd still be in the upper echelons of the bracket, whatever that may be. Money that can be better spent elsewhere. At 32, now is the perfect opportunity for us to part ways. I can see the argument, and I wouldn't have a major problem if we cut ties. I've not been an Allen fan at all. I think putting him on that big contract when we came down was amongst the worst things we've done and you wonder how different things would have been if he and Butland would have left that summer. But I think it's the 50-55k-a-week stuff that's really annoyed everyone. I'd worry a lot about the second year if we gave him more than a year, as he edged towards 34. But if the club have come to the conclusion Allen on 10-15k is fair market value, I don't think that's an horrific call, if they've looked at the realistic Bosman market. Wages in that market are always a bit inflated too. But I think we will be careful about offering any stupid deals, so can't see us falling into the trap of offering him anything approaching 20k For the same reason, you do wonder if we'll manage to agree anything with Powell in this environment. Even triggering the extra year on his current wages would be a bit anomalous with the way we've been acting recently (even though he's potentially our biggest asset)
|
|
|
Post by jokker on Apr 25, 2022 13:30:33 GMT
It's good, because Allen reached the same conclusion a while back. He wants to live in Wales. Sentinel say he's very keen on staying at Stoke though Funny, because it was the Sentinel that broke the story that he was keen on going to Wales. Not so much keen on leaving the club, as that would be a strange thing to say while he, then, still had games coming up, but keen on playing with an unspecified Welsh club. Oh well, maybe he's had his feelers to Swansea and Cardiff rejected, and he's come to realise ST4 is his only fixed abode.
|
|
|
Post by onionman on Apr 25, 2022 13:32:38 GMT
I watched him closely on Saturday. He made some decent interceptions and a couple of good tackles but his passing was dreadful. We were very solid on the day, but our midfield has been paper weak since he joined. In other words, he looked like an average second division midfielder. Six years and I still haven't seen him take a game by the scruff of the neck or dominate a midfield battle. I respect that he's a fine professional and would send him on with warmest wishes, but I think both he and us need a change. From his perspective, sticking with us after relegation was probably the wrong thing to do. He did take the game by the scruff of the neck against Luton, when Jones came back as opposing manager for the first time, and also in the infamous ear-cupping match, also against Luton. If he'd done that regularly, there would be few complaints about him. I agree with the sentiment that he has played much better since we signed Baker, and I think that solves the riddle of why he has always looked a better player for Wales - he's decent as long as he's got a good midfield partner. I would feel much more hopeful about next season if, instead of Joe Allen, we had a defensive minded central midfielder who can do the dirty work at a consistent standard, regardless of who else is playing in our midfield. Finding one within our budget shouldn't be impossible.
|
|
|
Post by marylandstoke on Apr 25, 2022 13:33:28 GMT
Sentinel say he's very keen on staying at Stoke though Funny, because it was the Sentinel that broke the story that he was keen on going to Wales. Not so much keen on leaving the club, as that would be a strange thing to say while he, then, still had games coming up, but keen on playing with an unspecified Welsh club. Oh well, maybe he's had his feelers to Swansea and Cardiff rejected, and he's come to realise ST4 is his only fixed abode. Newport County dislike this.
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 25, 2022 13:35:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2022 13:38:59 GMT
Those figures just look like pure guesswork though. Harry Souttar on 4k-a-week? No chance. He signed that when he was in majestic form. Their number on Campbell doesn't come anywhere near the figure I've heard either (although that's obviously complete speculation - which is the point!)
|
|
|
Post by crouchpotato1 on Apr 25, 2022 13:39:54 GMT
Those figures just look like pure guesswork though. Harry Souttar on 4k-a-week? No chance. He signed that when he was in majestic form. Their number on Campbell doesn't come anywhere near the figure I've heard either (although that's obviously complete speculation - which is the point) Where is he getting that from then mate?
|
|
|
Post by FullerMagic on Apr 25, 2022 13:41:13 GMT
Those figures just look like pure guesswork though. Harry Souttar on 4k-a-week? No chance. He signed that when he was in majestic form. Their number on Campbell doesn't come anywhere near the figure I've heard either (although that's obviously complete speculation - which is the point) Where is he getting that from then mate? Looks to be here, CP www.capology.com/club/stoke-city/salaries/
|
|
|
Post by stokie223 on Apr 25, 2022 13:42:47 GMT
Recency bias is massive amongst you lot haha. He's been crap for about 75% of his time at Stoke, this new deal would almost certainly put him at the top echelon's of the "pot covid alignment" of contracts. He's 32, his best days are behind him (of which many he was still shite for). This is the time now to finally part ways, shake hands and say goodbye. Get someone younger and more consistent. Is it just a coincidence that he's seen an upturn in form for the last 2 months of a 6 year 60k deal? Absolutely not the case as far as I’m concerned. In my opinion he has been consistently good in his time at this club - even in periods when some of those around him have let the side down noticeably. 'consistently good' ... wow
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Apr 25, 2022 13:45:49 GMT
Powell on 16k, don't be silly
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Apr 25, 2022 13:55:23 GMT
Sentinel say he's very keen on staying at Stoke though Funny, because it was the Sentinel that broke the story that he was keen on going to Wales. Not so much keen on leaving the club, as that would be a strange thing to say while he, then, still had games coming up, but keen on playing with an unspecified Welsh club. Oh well, maybe he's had his feelers to Swansea and Cardiff rejected, and he's come to realise ST4 is his only fixed abode. I think your last sentence is correct. Swansea fans and journalists seem totally underwhelmed at the prospect of him coming back and I suspect he's not too enamoured with Cardiff. As for Premier clubs I can't honestly see many being keen and apart from Brentford I don't think many are convenient for Wales. Perhaps the reason the Sentinel stories have changed is that he realises he quite likes being at Stoke more than the clubs that are his other options.
|
|
|
Post by Rick Grimes on Apr 25, 2022 14:00:47 GMT
Allen has played really well recently and having a quality midfielder like Baker alongside him seems to have really helped him but the vast majority of his time at the club has been underwhelming to say the least.
He’s been a large part of a midfield that has been consistently outfought and outthought in the Championship. I’d prefer it if he moves on but if the price is right on a new contract then I can see the merit in giving him a new deal.
This is just pure speculation but with this offer coming so late in the season I’d imagine we’ve already tried to sound out alternatives ahead of next season and haven’t been encouraged by the response and therefore decided to make the offer.
|
|
|
Post by fraybentos on Apr 25, 2022 14:05:19 GMT
Joe Allen will be a massive miss if he goes
|
|
|
Post by thewonderstuff on Apr 25, 2022 14:22:50 GMT
Those figures just look like pure guesswork though. Harry Souttar on 4k-a-week? No chance. He signed that when he was in majestic form. Their number on Campbell doesn't come anywhere near the figure I've heard either (although that's obviously complete speculation - which is the point) If that's true, Liam Moore's agent must be some kind of necromancer!
|
|
|
Post by Squeekster on Apr 25, 2022 14:40:01 GMT
Do you know that for definite mate. There’s been so much speculation that he’s sold his farm, his family have already moved to South Wales, he’s signing for Swansea etc but no one has backed it up with anything. I think you’re probably right. The fact that we obviously haven’t been talking to him before now is a big pointer. As much as some don’t rate him he’ll be big boots to fill from the bargain basement we’re having to shop in. But the Baker signing shows that they are out there though. Of course nothing is certain, ultimately it will boil down to the offers he gets but I only know from what a few people I know around the club have said that his preference is to move back closer to his roots or the Premier League....... Yes I've heard the same, his wife has allegedly already moved back, some one will be stalking his little chicken farm to let us know.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Apr 25, 2022 14:54:19 GMT
I can't stress enough how important it is to let him go. Talk of reduced terms is ludicrous unless he excepts the same conditions and salary as Thompson, they offer exactly the same to the team. What a load of rubbish this is. He covers all of the pitch & very often is the last man in defence. Baker goes missing in matches & Allen covers for him. Take a look again the next time they play. He's our M.O.T.M. in most matches, with a consistent 7 performance. He's got more energy than any 2 other players, & covers more ground. He's like Whelan, not much liked or rated on here, but now he's left, he's seen as irreplaceable. If he was actually like Whelan we'd have probably finished top half a few times.
|
|
|
Post by Old School Stokie on Apr 25, 2022 15:01:05 GMT
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 25, 2022 15:03:31 GMT
Those figures just look like pure guesswork though. Harry Souttar on 4k-a-week? No chance. He signed that when he was in majestic form. Their number on Campbell doesn't come anywhere near the figure I've heard either (although that's obviously complete speculation - which is the point) Where is he getting that from then mate? HMRC 😂😂😂😂
|
|
|
Post by owdestokie2 on Apr 25, 2022 15:22:39 GMT
You should really check out the site; 🙄🙄🙄
Berahino £80K Diouf £65K Powell £16.5K
|
|
|
Post by dirtclod on Apr 25, 2022 15:25:39 GMT
I like Joe, but for that much money he should be a way better passer. At the time I really didn't get why we bought him. He didn't fit any system we were trying to run and since then has just been a free-range type. He could possibly be making a political statement for his chickens?
Nothing against his work-ethic/attitude, he plays for the shirt. But he's a luxury we can't afford compared to other players.
|
|