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Post by Trouserdog on May 21, 2022 11:38:01 GMT
Not sure what to make of this now we have Vrancic. The only position he plays is as a no.10 for me so cover for Powell. Vrancic can play the number 8 for me though giving cover for Baker. Gives us a pool of New DM / Thompson Baker / Vrancic Powell / Sawyers I think Vrancic could play as an 8 in a 4-3-3, but in a 4-2-3-1 as one of the deeper two he doesn't offer enough defensively for me. Chances are though, MON will play 5-3-2 with Powell likely to be one of the forwards (groan), and it then being a straight choice between Vrancic and Sawyers to be the most attacking of the three CMs.
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Post by nottsover60 on May 21, 2022 11:50:49 GMT
I don't think Vrancic will command a starting position every week but offers a good option off the bench or as cover. I'm guessing if we sign Sawyers it might indicate that we don't think we'll sign Allen as it would leave us with the same unbalanced midfield as last year. Although if Allen's wages are halved there may still be room for an extra midfielder in the squad as long as he is predominantly defenensive.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 11:54:22 GMT
Going into to next season with the same midfield is pretty depressing.
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Post by jokker on May 21, 2022 11:55:01 GMT
I don't know enough about other side's midfields to say whether or not the best ones have a 'destroyer' in there. MON seems to think those days are gone.... Then MON is a prick. He's probably right with regards to teams that play in the Champions League but not those in the Championship (Casemiro for instance has become the weak link of late for Madrid).
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 21, 2022 12:44:39 GMT
He's probably right with regards to teams that play in the Champions League but not those in the Championship (Casemiro for instance has become the weak link of late for Madrid). Pretty much every top side in Europe plays with at least one combative midfielder who does the dirty work.
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Post by bringitondown on May 21, 2022 12:57:15 GMT
A smart bloke once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results…
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Post by iamstokie on May 21, 2022 13:07:21 GMT
A smart bloke once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results… Domes MoN up tbh
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Post by mrcoke on May 21, 2022 13:07:24 GMT
Going into to next season with the same midfield is pretty depressing. Not just depressing, a recipe for failure. We have been crying out for a DMF for years, someone like Whelan or Whitehead to play in front of the back line and break up the opposition. None of our present MF can tackle and in Allen's case is guaranteed to give away a foul in a dangerous position almost every game. MON needs to continue the clean out, including his failed signings otherwise we are condemned to another season of the same mediocrity, or worse.
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Post by Jimm on May 21, 2022 13:09:07 GMT
He'll go to Swansea and we'll end up with Allen on a 2 year contract.
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Post by Gary Hackett on May 21, 2022 13:09:36 GMT
Not sure what to make of this now we have Vrancic. The only position he plays is as a no.10 for me so cover for Powell. Vrancic can play the number 8 for me though giving cover for Baker. Gives us a pool of New DM / Thompson Baker / Vrancic Powell / Sawyers I think Vrancic could play as an 8 in a 4-3-3, but in a 4-2-3-1 as one of the deeper two he doesn't offer enough defensively for me. Chances are though, MON will play 5-3-2 with Powell likely to be one of the forwards (groan), and it then being a straight choice between Vrancic and Sawyers to be the most attacking of the three CMs. I reckon he'll go 532 hence why he wants a target man up top alongside Brown with Powell behind which is why I'm not sure where Sawyers really fits in unless back up / competition for Powell.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 14:22:10 GMT
With as many games as we have in a season and injuries picked it's not about starting 11s every game. You need a pool of 17 or 18 regulars.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 14:27:16 GMT
With as many games as we have in a season and injuries picked it's not about starting 11s every game. You need a pool of 17 or 18 regulars. You do but Sawyers should be fighting with Powell and Vrancic for the one spot. We don’t need 3 players for that. Dropping him deeper doesn’t work for us.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 14:34:19 GMT
With as many games as we have in a season and injuries picked it's not about starting 11s every game. You need a pool of 17 or 18 regulars. You do but Sawyers should be fighting with Powell and Vrancic for the one spot. We don’t need 3 players for that. Dropping him deeper doesn’t work for us. Not sure Bayern would happily have all 3 with what we've seen the last 9 months. Can certainly accommodate 2 at once. We do need a different style of midfielder desperately as well though to do the uglier stuff
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 14:48:03 GMT
You do but Sawyers should be fighting with Powell and Vrancic for the one spot. We don’t need 3 players for that. Dropping him deeper doesn’t work for us. Not sure Bayern would happily have all 3 with what we've seen the last 9 months. Can certainly accommodate 2 at once. We do need a different style of midfielder desperately as well though to do the uglier stuff Powell up front isn’t ideal and wasting what he’s best at. Ideally I’d have loved to have seen Allen Thompson Clucas and Vrancic all leave.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 14:58:36 GMT
Not sure Bayern would happily have all 3 with what we've seen the last 9 months. Can certainly accommodate 2 at once. We do need a different style of midfielder desperately as well though to do the uglier stuff Powell up front isn’t ideal and wasting what he’s best at. Ideally I’d have loved to have seen Allen Thompson Clucas and Vrancic all leave. After seeing Thompson supporting Rangers I agree No quite like him and glad we kept Vrancic another year but need to see more of him . We still need that Harry Arter style player.
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Post by cvillestokie on May 21, 2022 15:06:09 GMT
If we get Sawyers (hoping not), I can only hope that Vrancic will be used as cover for Baker and that we are still bringing in an out and out defensive midfielder for whom Thompson can compete with. Sawyers should never play deep. I'd assume that he will also be requesting assurances of such things if he were to come. As a free agent, I'd imagine there would be reasonable demand for him to be honest.
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on May 21, 2022 15:38:52 GMT
With as many games as we have in a season and injuries picked it's not about starting 11s every game. You need a pool of 17 or 18 regulars. You do but Sawyers should be fighting with Powell and Vrancic for the one spot. We don’t need 3 players for that. Dropping him deeper doesn’t work for us. We tend to modify the shape when Powell plays in order to accommodate his strengths - neither Vrancic nor Sawyers are direct replacements. Like it or not all our midfielders are good on the ball and to a large extent interchangeable with slight modifications depending on who plays - Allen, Thompson and Baker have tended to be slightly withdrawn and Powell, Vrancic, Clucas and Sawyers more advanced but Allen and Baker have played in advanced positions in their career and Clucas and Sawyers have played in more withdrawn roles. It really doesn't make sense to think of the midfield in terms of pairing up like for like replacements - the choice is far more fluid - and unless we are talking about U23 players breaking though - the whole understudy thing is just nonsense. Players get picked on the basis of form and tactics not some sort of pre-ordained pecking order.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 16:35:37 GMT
You do but Sawyers should be fighting with Powell and Vrancic for the one spot. We don’t need 3 players for that. Dropping him deeper doesn’t work for us. We tend to modify the shape when Powell plays in order to accommodate his strengths - neither Vrancic nor Sawyers are direct replacements. Like it or not all our midfielders are good on the ball and to a large extent interchangeable with slight modifications depending on who plays - Allen, Thompson and Baker have tended to be slightly withdrawn and Powell, Vrancic, Clucas and Sawyers more advanced but Allen and Baker have played in advanced positions in their career and Clucas and Sawyers have played in more withdrawn roles. It really doesn't make sense to think of the midfield in terms of pairing up like for like replacements - the choice is far more fluid - and unless we are talking about U23 players breaking though - the whole understudy thing is just nonsense. Players get picked on the basis of form and tactics not some sort of pre-ordained pecking order. They all should be used as number 10s. They offer different strengths to the role but that’s where they all should be played. 2 of them in the same midfield is suicide. Powell up front is wasting him.
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Post by lordb on May 21, 2022 17:28:13 GMT
Is it nailed on that he's signing for Stoke?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 17:32:29 GMT
Is it nailed on that he's signing for Stoke? No but it’s the sort of stupid thing we’d do.
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 18:34:14 GMT
Is it nailed on that he's signing for Stoke? Just been told fourth hand that it is. So we shall see! 😂😂
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Post by jokker on May 21, 2022 19:19:46 GMT
If we get Sawyers (hoping not), I can only hope that Vrancic will be used as cover for Baker and that we are still bringing in an out and out defensive midfielder for whom Thompson can compete with. Sawyers should never play deep. I'd assume that he will also be requesting assurances of such things if he were to come. As a free agent, I'd imagine there would be reasonable demand for him to be honest. I also hope that we sign the super dm that everyone is crying out for but what are the odds that we will? But we can't and must not use Vrancic as cover for Baker. It'd be suicide. We did use Vrancic deeper in midfield last season, but that was because we only had three senior midfielders available for three positions, everybody else was injured, so Vrancic had to bite the apple and play in an unwelcome position, which was no good at all and only ended up getting himself injured too. He's not a versatile player that can play anywhere you like. He's a specialist number 10 with a great ability to create things from that position - on his day. He's not expensive and we can afford to keep him on the bench and send him on late in away games, when things don't work out for Powell.
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Post by jokker on May 21, 2022 19:23:13 GMT
He's probably right with regards to teams that play in the Champions League but not those in the Championship (Casemiro for instance has become the weak link of late for Madrid). Pretty much every top side in Europe plays with at least one combative midfielder who does the dirty work. Yes but they can play as well. Camavinga will be excellent for Madrid once they ditch Casemiro. It was his dynamic running - and Rodrigo's goals - that did for Citeh.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 21, 2022 19:32:57 GMT
Pretty much every top side in Europe plays with at least one combative midfielder who does the dirty work. Yes but they can play as well. Camavinga will be excellent for Madrid once they ditch Casemiro. It was his dynamic running - and Rodrigo's goals - that did for Citeh. Agree they need to be able to play a bit as well. But they have some physicality and discipline, and I think that’s really what we need. They don’t need to be all-singing, all dancing, just be able to plug gaps and do the simple stuff well.
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Post by theonlooker on May 21, 2022 20:46:12 GMT
A smart bloke once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results… Does that apply to supporters shouting for a managers head and expecting the owners to do anything different other than to replace him with more of the same?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 20:52:19 GMT
A smart bloke once said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results… Does that apply to supporters shouting for a managers head and expecting the owners to do anything different other than to replace him with more of the same? It’s why the owners ideally have to go too. Them and MON are useless.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on May 21, 2022 21:08:31 GMT
Does that apply to supporters shouting for a managers head and expecting the owners to do anything different other than to replace him with more of the same? It’s why the owners ideally have to go too. Them and MON are useless. It’s a concern that the top ten almost picks itself already and we aren’t in it , and a number of the managers in the league have significant promotion pedigree and form
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Post by cvillestokie on May 21, 2022 21:27:36 GMT
Does that apply to supporters shouting for a managers head and expecting the owners to do anything different other than to replace him with more of the same? It’s why the owners ideally have to go too. Them and MON are useless. In place of? Who do you think would put money into Stoke? We are a meh club in a meh league who cannot attract big gates despite the fact that there’s no other decent club in at least an hour radius.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 21, 2022 21:29:12 GMT
It’s why the owners ideally have to go too. Them and MON are useless. In place of? Who do you think would put money into Stoke? We are a meh club in a meh league who cannot attract big gates despite the fact that there’s no other decent club in at least an hour radius. Nice to dream of someone with some vision though, eh?
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Post by bayernoatcake on May 21, 2022 21:29:46 GMT
It’s why the owners ideally have to go too. Them and MON are useless. In place of? Who do you think would put money into Stoke? We are a meh club in a meh league who cannot attract big gates despite the fact that there’s no other decent club in at least an hour radius. We get decent gates.
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