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Post by leesandfordstoupe on May 25, 2022 16:21:42 GMT
Why would you have only 2 attacking midfielders in a squad designed to have an attack minded midfield? If, for example (and this is only an example), we have 6 midfielders in the squad the right balance for the midfield would be 4 attacking and 2 defensive. You and others are effectively advocating 4 defensive and 2 attacking which makes sense if we are setting up in front of a back 4 and/or looking to play a counter attacking game but we aren't. What you and others are suggesting simply does not make any sense given how O'Neill is looking to set up the team. Whether he should set up the team differently is a perfectly legitimate argument in its own right but no-one is actually doing that - Sawyers, Powell and Vrancic's are just being lumped together as 3 interchangeable attacking midfielders fighting for 2 places when that simply isn't what is happening given the way we are trying to play. And given Powell's injury record having 2 players for the one position is insane - in fact our poor patch occurred when Powell, Vrancic and Sawyers were all out injured - how is reducing the attacking midfield options to 2 going to resolve that problem? In terms of recruitment Surridge wasn't the wrong type of player he just didn't settle, got injured, got himself sent off when he finally got his chance and wanted to be guaranteed first team football which wasn't going to happen. Baker was an excellent signing, Maja was ok, JPB looked good but got injured and we replaced a CB who didn't fit the bill as someone comfortable on the ball (Batth) with one that was (Jagielka). And even if the recruitment didn't match the game plan how is that an arguement for carrying on making the same mistake? In either version of the system he supposedly wants to play, there are three midfield roles. There are two deeper midfield roles and an attacking midfield role ahead of them. Allen or Thompson can play in the deeper roles as the more defensive minded player. Baker and at an absolute push Clucas can play in one of the deeper roles as a box-to-box player with both some bite and creativity/goal threat. Powell and Vrancic can play as the most advanced midfielder, dedicated primarily to creativity. Sawyers, if he signs, is only capable of playing in that Powell/Vrancic bracket. Ideally, we need to improve on at least one and ideally both of Allen and Clucas to strengthen those areas. I must admit watching our games I struggle to see designated roles for our midfielders. I’m often perplexed who’s meant to be deepest or furthest forward.There’s having fluidity but ours looks more like lacking any structure.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 25, 2022 6:41:09 GMT
Maja and Sawyers both possible, but dependent on finance
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Post by stokie1947 on Jun 25, 2022 6:52:25 GMT
please NO NO NO
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 25, 2022 7:11:59 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for?
Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now.
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Post by wakeypotter on Jun 25, 2022 7:17:25 GMT
Played in the right position he’s a right player
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Post by gingerninja on Jun 25, 2022 7:18:35 GMT
Really not sure about either, not sure if either are what we really need in their respective positions, if that is the midfielder we are after, we are again going without a proper CDM and Maja takes out the option of going long, as he's rubbish in the air, all very strange.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 25, 2022 7:19:47 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for? Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now. Good. They would have been on 15k+ easy at their respective previous clubs and a loan is the only way we get someone like that. Falling in line with everyone else.
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Post by st3mark on Jun 25, 2022 7:22:38 GMT
When your budget is seemingly £0, if you have got a player like Sawyers available on a free then you sign him up. Previously promoted from this league, loads of experience at this level, always available for the ball, can play no.10 if Powell is out, but more importantly can play no.8 and no.4 also.
Its literally a no brainer to have him in the squad on a free with how many options he gives you. Especially when we have a manager who changes tactics from 532, 4231, 433, 343 on a regular basis throughout the year.
Maja on the other hand is a bit more of a gamble. If he is free then yes he is within our price range. His link up play was fantastic in probably three matches - which isn't consistent enough but it showed a glimpse, and he only scored three goals didn't he in half a season. That is not promotion scoring form. The manager has to decide whether he believes Maja can get minimum 15 goals if the team is in form and providing him some service.
I can't think of two other free transfers of the same quality in the same positions that we are likely to sign.
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Post by a on Jun 25, 2022 7:23:17 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for? Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now. We need to look at how teams like Forest, Boro, Blackburn and Luton manage, they’ve been in this league (or lower) for a long time and seem to be outperforming us.
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 25, 2022 7:29:24 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for? Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now. We need to look at how teams like Forest, Boro, Blackburn and Luton manage, they’ve been in this league (or lower) for a long time and seem to be outperforming us. Forest, Boro and Blackburn have bigger budgets than you think. Luton are an outlier in their budget and performance. It will be incredibly difficult for them to repeat what they did last season. However, if you believe what you read they've spent circa 1-1.5M this week on two players. Will we be spending that? We're potentially being outspent here by Luton Town and Millwall!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 25, 2022 7:31:54 GMT
We need to look at how teams like Forest, Boro, Blackburn and Luton manage, they’ve been in this league (or lower) for a long time and seem to be outperforming us. Forest, Boro and Blackburn have bigger budgets than you think. Luton are an outlier in their budget and performance. It will be incredibly difficult for them to repeat what they did last season. However, if you believe what you read they've spent circa 1-1.5M this week on two players. Will we be spending that? We're potentially being outspent here by Luton Town and Millwall! Because they can. How badly we’ve been run means we can’t. We still have a massive wage budget. It’s just bad excuses for a bad manager and bad owners.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 25, 2022 7:39:17 GMT
When your budget is seemingly £0, if you have got a player like Sawyers available on a free then you sign him up. Previously promoted from this league, loads of experience at this level, always available for the ball, can play no.10 if Powell is out, but more importantly can play no.8 and no.4 also. Its literally a no brainer to have him in the squad on a free with how many options he gives you. Especially when we have a manager who changes tactics from 532, 4231, 433, 343 on a regular basis throughout the year. Maja on the other hand is a bit more of a gamble. If he is free then yes he is within our price range. His link up play was fantastic in probably three matches - which isn't consistent enough but it showed a glimpse, and he only scored three goals didn't he in half a season. That is not promotion scoring form. The manager has to decide whether he believes Maja can get minimum 15 goals if the team is in form and providing him some service. I can't think of two other free transfers of the same quality in the same positions that we are likely to sign. I’m not following on the ‘how many options he gives you’. He’s a 10 or he’s nothing. Playing him deeper was a disaster.
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Post by lordb on Jun 25, 2022 7:42:18 GMT
When your budget is seemingly £0, if you have got a player like Sawyers available on a free then you sign him up. Previously promoted from this league, loads of experience at this level, always available for the ball, can play no.10 if Powell is out, but more importantly can play no.8 and no.4 also. Its literally a no brainer to have him in the squad on a free with how many options he gives you. Especially when we have a manager who changes tactics from 532, 4231, 433, 343 on a regular basis throughout the year. Maja on the other hand is a bit more of a gamble. If he is free then yes he is within our price range. His link up play was fantastic in probably three matches - which isn't consistent enough but it showed a glimpse, and he only scored three goals didn't he in half a season. That is not promotion scoring form. The manager has to decide whether he believes Maja can get minimum 15 goals if the team is in form and providing him some service. I can't think of two other free transfers of the same quality in the same positions that we are likely to sign. I’m not following on the ‘how many options he gives you’. He’s a 10 or he’s nothing. Playing him deeper was a disaster. Acceptable at 8,disaster at 4
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Post by potter1989 on Jun 25, 2022 7:42:26 GMT
Maja - was not fit on his loan. As I’ve said on another thread. A fit and firing maja on the right wage is a no brainer, he’s still very younger and is only gonna get better,
Sawyers - also makes perfect sense, play him in the right position, also great on the ball, we all know Powell will have some time on the sidelines at some point in the season, vrancic also gone, he’s fit in perfect
Picking a midfield 3 from Baker Laurent Powell Sawyers Thompson
Very strong IMO
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Post by lordb on Jun 25, 2022 7:44:01 GMT
Maja - was not fit on his loan. As I’ve said on another thread. A fit and firing maja on the right wage is a no brainer, he’s still very younger and is only gonna get better, Sawyers - also makes perfect sense, play him in the right position, also great on the ball, we all know Powell will have some time on the sidelines at some point in the season, vrancic also gone, he’s fit in perfect Picking a midfield 3 from Baker Laurent Powell Sawyers Thompson Very strong IMO And Clucas🤔 But I agree However the money has to work
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 25, 2022 7:44:09 GMT
I’m not following on the ‘how many options he gives you’. He’s a 10 or he’s nothing. Playing him deeper was a disaster. Acceptable at 8,disaster at 4 If he’s playing as an 8 we’re going to need two DMs in a midfield three still. Otherwise you’re leaving the dirty work entirely to one player in there.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 25, 2022 7:44:56 GMT
Maja - was not fit on his loan. As I’ve said on another thread. A fit and firing maja on the right wage is a no brainer, he’s still very younger and is only gonna get better, Sawyers - also makes perfect sense, play him in the right position, also great on the ball, we all know Powell will have some time on the sidelines at some point in the season, vrancic also gone, he’s fit in perfect Picking a midfield 3 from Baker Laurent Powell Sawyers Thompson Very strong IMO Think you still possibly need another option for the deeper roles.
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Post by potter1989 on Jun 25, 2022 7:47:13 GMT
Maja - was not fit on his loan. As I’ve said on another thread. A fit and firing maja on the right wage is a no brainer, he’s still very younger and is only gonna get better, Sawyers - also makes perfect sense, play him in the right position, also great on the ball, we all know Powell will have some time on the sidelines at some point in the season, vrancic also gone, he’s fit in perfect Picking a midfield 3 from Baker Laurent Powell Sawyers Thompson Very strong IMO Think you still possibly need another option for the deeper roles. Yeah probably, it seems to be a 1 in and 1 out policy though, hopefully etebo and clucas leaving could provide the space and wage availability
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Post by boskampsflaps on Jun 25, 2022 7:47:19 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for? Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now. I think people already are awake to that, I don't think anyone would be surprised that we weren't paying their full wages when on loan. Its a shame MON wasted most, if not all, of the money he was able to spend.
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Post by roylandstoke on Jun 25, 2022 7:47:42 GMT
Maja and Sawyers both possible, but dependent on finance Sawyers maybe. Maja not for me.
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Post by werrington on Jun 25, 2022 7:47:51 GMT
With the correct formation and with players and options around them they will be superb acquisitions
If the manager continues with this rancid no shots at goal policy they’ll again be hung out to dry and open to the relentless criticism they get on here
Some see it some don’t
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 25, 2022 7:51:51 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for? Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now. I think people already are awake to that, I don't think anyone would be surprised that we weren't paying their full wages when on loan. Its a shame MON wasted most, if not all, of the money he was able to spend. I think people need to elevate the argument above O'Neill, because like any manager he has a limited shelf life at a football club and will eventually move on to other things. The bigger issue is where the club is going in relation to what we can spend and the types of managers we normally go for and can attract going forwards. Luton and Huddersfield are total outliers. The chances of any club copying that are what? 1 in 13/14/15?
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Post by xchpotter on Jun 25, 2022 7:53:52 GMT
When your budget is seemingly £0, if you have got a player like Sawyers available on a free then you sign him up. Previously promoted from this league, loads of experience at this level, always available for the ball, can play no.10 if Powell is out, but more importantly can play no.8 and no.4 also. Its literally a no brainer to have him in the squad on a free with how many options he gives you. Especially when we have a manager who changes tactics from 532, 4231, 433, 343 on a regular basis throughout the year. Maja on the other hand is a bit more of a gamble. If he is free then yes he is within our price range. His link up play was fantastic in probably three matches - which isn't consistent enough but it showed a glimpse, and he only scored three goals didn't he in half a season. That is not promotion scoring form. The manager has to decide whether he believes Maja can get minimum 15 goals if the team is in form and providing him some service. I can't think of two other free transfers of the same quality in the same positions that we are likely to sign. I’m not following on the ‘how many options he gives you’. He’s a 10 or he’s nothing. Playing him deeper was a disaster. Absolutely. A number 4 in days gone by was always a sitting midfielder able to defend….this is not Sawyers. A number 8 was all over the place and could do a bit of defence and attack…this is not Sawyers. Whilst numbers mean nothing now compared to yesteryear, the only position Sawyers can play is on his own in an attack minded set up with absolutely zero defensive responsibility as he’s a liability defending. This means another player doing his own job and covering for Sawyers and we don’t have the luxury of that. Sawyers for me is a no unless we unearth the next Makelele or Kante to cover for him.
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Post by werrington on Jun 25, 2022 7:56:11 GMT
I think people already are awake to that, I don't think anyone would be surprised that we weren't paying their full wages when on loan. Its a shame MON wasted most, if not all, of the money he was able to spend. I think people need to elevate the argument above O'Neill, because like any manager he has a limited shelf life at a football club and will eventually move on to other things. The bigger issue is where the club is going in relation to what we can spend and the types of managers we normally go for and can attract going forwards. Luton and Huddersfield are total outliers. The chances of any club copying that are what? 1 in 13/14/15? It’s irrelevant what he can and can’t spend as to wether how hamstrung he is/we are He’s had squads who can attack and give other teams a game of football but he chooses not too and doesn’t seem to know how to use it He’s been backed every window and he’s being backed again ….he’s in last chance saloon
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jun 25, 2022 7:58:15 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for? Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now. So we’ve 16 players according to the manager we clearly need at least another 6 but we can’t afford two free transfers without further outgoings , tends to scupper te its all fine because next week contracts end logic m it’s either a understandable negotiation stance to manage their aspirations or we are literally buggered , it’s raised a little eyebrow in crocodile house I can tell you
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 25, 2022 8:01:58 GMT
So we can no longer afford two players that were here last season, and this season with a much smaller squad to pay out for? Maybe people wil finally wake up as to just how low and tight our budget is getting now. So we’ve 16 players according to the manager we clearly need at least another 6 but we can’t afford two free transfers without further outgoings , tends to scupper te its all fine because next week contracts end logic m it’s either a understandable negotiation stance to manage their aspirations or we are literally buggered , it’s raised a little eyebrow in crocodile house I can tell you Bursik Bonham Fielding Clarke Duhaney Souttar Jagielka Flint Wilmot Forrester Taylor Tymon Fox Thompson Laurent Clucas Baker Powell DWP Campbell Brown 16? There’s 21 there. And no doubt I’ve forgotten someone. Ideally swap Duhaney for someone. Swap Fox for someone Swap Clucas for someone Sign another midfielder Sign 2 forwards
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Jun 25, 2022 8:05:09 GMT
So we’ve 16 players according to the manager we clearly need at least another 6 but we can’t afford two free transfers without further outgoings , tends to scupper te its all fine because next week contracts end logic m it’s either a understandable negotiation stance to manage their aspirations or we are literally buggered , it’s raised a little eyebrow in crocodile house I can tell you Bursik Bonham Fielding Clarke Duhaney Souttar Jagielka Flint Wilmot Forrester Taylor Tymon Fox Thompson Laurent Clucas Baker Powell DWP Campbell Brown 16? There’s 21 there. And no doubt I’ve forgotten someone. Ideally swap Duhaney for someone. Swap Fox for someone Swap Clucas for someone Sign another midfielder Sign 2 forwards He said 16 senior players so didn’t include the likes of Taylor Forrester etc so it’s a fair bet they’ll be on loan by the end of the window essentially they clearly rigtky or wrongly aren’t considered ready
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 25, 2022 8:06:03 GMT
Bursik Bonham Fielding Clarke Duhaney Souttar Jagielka Flint Wilmot Forrester Taylor Tymon Fox Thompson Laurent Clucas Baker Powell DWP Campbell Brown 16? There’s 21 there. And no doubt I’ve forgotten someone. Ideally swap Duhaney for someone. Swap Fox for someone Swap Clucas for someone Sign another midfielder Sign 2 forwards He said 16 senior players so didn’t include the likes of Taylor Forrester etc so it’s a fair bet they’ll be on loan by the end of the window essentially they clearly rigtky or wrongly aren’t considered ready Then he’s an idiot.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 25, 2022 8:06:08 GMT
I think people need to elevate the argument above O'Neill, because like any manager he has a limited shelf life at a football club and will eventually move on to other things. The bigger issue is where the club is going in relation to what we can spend and the types of managers we normally go for and can attract going forwards. Luton and Huddersfield are total outliers. The chances of any club copying that are what? 1 in 13/14/15? It’s irrelevant what he can and can’t spend as to wether how hamstrung he is/we are He’s had squads who can attack and give other teams a game of football but he chooses not too and doesn’t seem to know how to use it He’s been backed every window and he’s being backed again ….he’s in last chance saloon Find this idea that the situation and the owners’ mistakes absolves the manager of any responsibility whatsoever just bizarre. Especially when he’s put in place a lot of the newer football machinery at the club himself.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 25, 2022 8:07:13 GMT
It’s irrelevant what he can and can’t spend as to wether how hamstrung he is/we are He’s had squads who can attack and give other teams a game of football but he chooses not too and doesn’t seem to know how to use it He’s been backed every window and he’s being backed again ….he’s in last chance saloon Find this idea that the situation and the owners’ mistakes absolves the manager of any responsibility whatsoever just bizarre. Especially when he’s put in place a lot of the newer football machinery at the club himself. It’s fantasy stuff and should be laughed out of town. Unless you go balls deep in wanting the owners fucked off.
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