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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 17, 2022 10:35:20 GMT
But creative players who aren't, in your words, 'mardarses' do still get targeted don't they? We see that in the Premier League every week, we've seen that happen to our own players before as well. Is that the reason why Vrancic has more assists? Or is it because he's on set pieces? You don't have to think he's god's gift but you're dramatically underplaying his impact and influence, presumably because you don't like him? He is the team's talisman in a way Vrancic, as much as I like him, isn't. Even in systems that haven't quite worked as well for him he's still made a contribution, from being shoehorned out wide to playing as a second striker. Powell was still just about our most effective player when we were playing with a back three, with 5 in his first 12 before his broken leg. Mardarses get targeted because there is a payoff - the opposition get away with more fouls than they would have because the ref knows they go down easy whereas a creative player without a reputation for diving will get more than their fair share of fouls. Vrancic is on set pieces because his dead ball delivery is better than Powell's and an assist is an assist. Both Powell and Vrancic can play a killer ball in open play but Vrancic picks his moment and will play the simple pass when necessary and Powell tries to overdo it. Last Saturday was a perfect example - Powell's passing in the first half was way off and he was our least effective player on the pitch. As to goal scoring I agree - Powell offers more. I am not dramatically underplaying Powell's contribution I'm seeing him for what he is - a very good player with flaws in his game and (for me) an unlikeable attitude. And I've said I'd pick him - if the fact I don't like him particularly was overruling my judgement of his as a player why would I do that? The thing I'm being got at for is because I refuse to see him as some sort of demigod. My assessment of Powell is way more objective and realistic than 90% os the posts on here because it's not tainted by rose coloured spectacles. As to being our talisman - maybe to the Powell fanboys on here but not to everyone and I suspect his team mates and manager don't think it either. I'd put money on him not being the most popular player in the dressing room and as to putting him on a pedestal and hailing him as a talisman - seriously? Not going to happen. You think Powell is a mardarse? Wow.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 17, 2022 10:40:01 GMT
Mardarses get targeted because there is a payoff - the opposition get away with more fouls than they would have because the ref knows they go down easy whereas a creative player without a reputation for diving will get more than their fair share of fouls. Vrancic is on set pieces because his dead ball delivery is better than Powell's and an assist is an assist. Both Powell and Vrancic can play a killer ball in open play but Vrancic picks his moment and will play the simple pass when necessary and Powell tries to overdo it. Last Saturday was a perfect example - Powell's passing in the first half was way off and he was our least effective player on the pitch. As to goal scoring I agree - Powell offers more. I am not dramatically underplaying Powell's contribution I'm seeing him for what he is - a very good player with flaws in his game and (for me) an unlikeable attitude. And I've said I'd pick him - if the fact I don't like him particularly was overruling my judgement of his as a player why would I do that? The thing I'm being got at for is because I refuse to see him as some sort of demigod. My assessment of Powell is way more objective and realistic than 90% os the posts on here because it's not tainted by rose coloured spectacles. As to being our talisman - maybe to the Powell fanboys on here but not to everyone and I suspect his team mates and manager don't think it either. I'd put money on him not being the most popular player in the dressing room and as to putting him on a pedestal and hailing him as a talisman - seriously? Not going to happen. You think Powell is a mardarse? Wow. I don't know where all that mardarse shit comes from when nine out of ten he gets up from a foul laughing or smirking in the opponents face because he knows he's a superior player to them and the only way they can stop him is by kicking lumps out of him.
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Post by nott1 on Feb 17, 2022 10:40:35 GMT
He is one of the most if not the most fouled players in the division because other teams are scared of what he can do to hurt them!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 17, 2022 10:43:47 GMT
You think Powell is a mardarse? Wow. I don't know where all that mardarse shit comes from when nine out of ten he gets up from a foul laughing or smirking in the opponents face because he knows he's a superior player to them and the only way they can stop him is by kicking lumps out of him. Yeah exactly. It's a really odd thing to say. He gets the kick shit kicked out of him, doesn't get about a third of the fouls he does and just carries on. It's not brave in the grand scheme of things but in a football sense it is. It's easy to kick the shit out of someone but to be kicked and kicked and kicked and come back for more takes some doing. Not sure I could be arsed (hence why when I play, I kick people ).
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 17, 2022 10:56:27 GMT
I don't know where all that mardarse shit comes from when nine out of ten he gets up from a foul laughing or smirking in the opponents face because he knows he's a superior player to them and the only way they can stop him is by kicking lumps out of him. Yeah exactly. It's a really odd thing to say. He gets the kick shit kicked out of him, doesn't get about a third of the fouls he does and just carries on. It's not brave in the grand scheme of things but in a football sense it is. It's easy to kick the shit out of someone but to be kicked and kicked and kicked and come back for more takes some doing. Not sure I could be arsed (hence why when I play, I kick people ). Spot on Bayern.
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Post by yyy on Feb 17, 2022 12:19:23 GMT
I don't know where all that mardarse shit comes from when nine out of ten he gets up from a foul laughing or smirking in the opponents face because he knows he's a superior player to them and the only way they can stop him is by kicking lumps out of him. Yeah exactly. It's a really odd thing to say. He gets the kick shit kicked out of him, doesn't get about a third of the fouls he does and just carries on. It's not brave in the grand scheme of things but in a football sense it is. It's easy to kick the shit out of someone but to be kicked and kicked and kicked and come back for more takes some doing. Not sure I could be arsed (hence why when I play, I kick people ). Can we define kick? Players go down like they have been shot now if an opposition player even looks at his leg. You're Making it sound like a boxing match where real blows are coming in. Heaven forbid a footballer ever gets into a boxing ring, they'd be in a coma after touching gloves. I think players should be booked for going down myself if contact is minimal like when you often see a player tread on a players foot and the 'assaulted' player goes down holding his shin or calf, it's pathetic. Surely it only takes the man on the line 2 seconds to decide the player down is a fraud
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Post by femark on Feb 17, 2022 12:32:47 GMT
He does like to go looking for fouls alot
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 17, 2022 12:46:21 GMT
Mardarses get targeted because there is a payoff - the opposition get away with more fouls than they would have because the ref knows they go down easy whereas a creative player without a reputation for diving will get more than their fair share of fouls. Vrancic is on set pieces because his dead ball delivery is better than Powell's and an assist is an assist. Both Powell and Vrancic can play a killer ball in open play but Vrancic picks his moment and will play the simple pass when necessary and Powell tries to overdo it. Last Saturday was a perfect example - Powell's passing in the first half was way off and he was our least effective player on the pitch. As to goal scoring I agree - Powell offers more. I am not dramatically underplaying Powell's contribution I'm seeing him for what he is - a very good player with flaws in his game and (for me) an unlikeable attitude. And I've said I'd pick him - if the fact I don't like him particularly was overruling my judgement of his as a player why would I do that? The thing I'm being got at for is because I refuse to see him as some sort of demigod. My assessment of Powell is way more objective and realistic than 90% os the posts on here because it's not tainted by rose coloured spectacles. As to being our talisman - maybe to the Powell fanboys on here but not to everyone and I suspect his team mates and manager don't think it either. I'd put money on him not being the most popular player in the dressing room and as to putting him on a pedestal and hailing him as a talisman - seriously? Not going to happen. You think Powell is a mardarse? Wow. I agree with CBUFAWKIPWH in part. I have loved Powell for the last season and a half. He’s been very consistent and our most important /consistent player since Campbell got injured. However, while he does get fouled a lot, he also rolls around a lot/play acts/cheats. That’s a part of football I despise and it frustrates the hell out of me that it’s become more and more tolerated. Footballers no longer ride a challenge either, but run face on into one hoping for a foul, or even stick a leg out trying to get fouled. Powell gets fouled a lot, but he also dives a lot and makes the most out of every tackle regardless of whether it may or may not hurt. I personally hate seeing players roll around like war victims at every opportunity of the game. I still think he’s our “talisman”, a step above everyone else in the team, and the only true stand out player we have right now whose been here long enough to show they can keep up that level. His work rate is superb, his aerial presence is vital for us and his desire to get on the ball often sees him play as a roaming playmaker, which we need if we want to play out from the back.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 17, 2022 12:47:22 GMT
He does like to go looking for fouls alot Or you could call it 'he gets to the ball first alot and is then fouled' which is exactly what it is.
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Post by GallysGuitar on Feb 17, 2022 13:03:08 GMT
Looks like he’s been training this week so fingers crossed he’s fit for Saturday. They wouldn't post this if he wasn't fit. Great news.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 17, 2022 13:11:15 GMT
Looks like he’s been training this week so fingers crossed he’s fit for Saturday. They wouldn't post his if he wasn't fit. Great news. The Stoke City social media “team” are useless. I wouldn’t pay any mind to it. There’s no knowing what stage of training that is at, if it’s even the right week (wouldn’t surprise me), or how he reacted to it. If there’s a risk versus Birmingham that he may make it worse, I’d play Baker further up and keep him on the bench. He’s far too important to this run in and Birmingham have a lot of injuries themselves. We should see it out without him.
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Post by J-Roar on Feb 17, 2022 13:13:00 GMT
You think Powell is a mardarse? Wow. I agree with CBUFAWKIPWH in part. I have loved Powell for the last season and a half. He’s been very consistent and our most important /consistent player since Campbell got injured. However, while he does get fouled a lot, he also rolls around a lot/play acts/cheats. That’s a part of football I despise and it frustrates the hell out of me that it’s become more and more tolerated. Footballers no longer ride a challenge either, but run face on into one hoping for a foul, or even stick a leg out trying to get fouled. Powell gets fouled a lot, but he also dives a lot and makes the most out of every tackle regardless of whether it may or may not hurt. I personally hate seeing players roll around like war victims at every opportunity of the game. I still think he’s our “talisman”, a step above everyone else in the team, and the only true stand out player we have right now whose been here long enough to show they can keep up that level. His work rate is superb, his aerial presence is vital for us and his desire to get on the ball often sees him play as a roaming playmaker, which we need if we want to play out from the back. Referees are partly to blame. If you don't go down you don't get a foul. It's all very well wanting us to play like the 70s but the games has moved on. To rail against it is like King Canute trying to turn the tide back.
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Post by scfcwebby on Feb 17, 2022 13:25:42 GMT
He does like to go looking for fouls alot Does he?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 17, 2022 13:55:19 GMT
Yeah exactly. It's a really odd thing to say. He gets the kick shit kicked out of him, doesn't get about a third of the fouls he does and just carries on. It's not brave in the grand scheme of things but in a football sense it is. It's easy to kick the shit out of someone but to be kicked and kicked and kicked and come back for more takes some doing. Not sure I could be arsed (hence why when I play, I kick people ). Can we define kick? Players go down like they have been shot now if an opposition player even looks at his leg. You're Making it sound like a boxing match where real blows are coming in. Heaven forbid a footballer ever gets into a boxing ring, they'd be in a coma after touching gloves. I think players should be booked for going down myself if contact is minimal like when you often see a player tread on a players foot and the 'assaulted' player goes down holding his shin or calf, it's pathetic. Surely it only takes the man on the line 2 seconds to decide the player down is a fraud You're comparing apples with oranges and as we've seen with Powell these kicks usually end in injuries. Injuries are bad.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 17, 2022 13:56:27 GMT
You think Powell is a mardarse? Wow. I agree with CBUFAWKIPWH in part. I have loved Powell for the last season and a half. He’s been very consistent and our most important /consistent player since Campbell got injured. However, while he does get fouled a lot, he also rolls around a lot/play acts/cheats. That’s a part of football I despise and it frustrates the hell out of me that it’s become more and more tolerated. Footballers no longer ride a challenge either, but run face on into one hoping for a foul, or even stick a leg out trying to get fouled. Powell gets fouled a lot, but he also dives a lot and makes the most out of every tackle regardless of whether it may or may not hurt. I personally hate seeing players roll around like war victims at every opportunity of the game. I still think he’s our “talisman”, a step above everyone else in the team, and the only true stand out player we have right now whose been here long enough to show they can keep up that level. His work rate is superb, his aerial presence is vital for us and his desire to get on the ball often sees him play as a roaming playmaker, which we need if we want to play out from the back. I don't think he dives and rolls a lot at all. Indeed he doesn't win about a third of the free kicks he should get imo. He goes down a lot because he gets kicked a lot.
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Post by femark on Feb 17, 2022 13:58:54 GMT
He does like to go looking for fouls alot Or you could call it 'he gets to the ball first alot and is then fouled' which is exactly what it is. That's partly the case, but one of his favourite moves when he's running with the ball is to shift his body into the defender and fall over. I'm not knocking him for it by the way
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Post by femark on Feb 17, 2022 13:59:16 GMT
He does like to go looking for fouls alot Does he? Yes...
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Post by daz2631 on Feb 17, 2022 14:01:56 GMT
He goes looking for fouls in the right areas around final third or when opposition teams are getting on top which is a clever way of doing things in mho.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 17, 2022 14:09:22 GMT
I agree with CBUFAWKIPWH in part. I have loved Powell for the last season and a half. He’s been very consistent and our most important /consistent player since Campbell got injured. However, while he does get fouled a lot, he also rolls around a lot/play acts/cheats. That’s a part of football I despise and it frustrates the hell out of me that it’s become more and more tolerated. Footballers no longer ride a challenge either, but run face on into one hoping for a foul, or even stick a leg out trying to get fouled. Powell gets fouled a lot, but he also dives a lot and makes the most out of every tackle regardless of whether it may or may not hurt. I personally hate seeing players roll around like war victims at every opportunity of the game. I still think he’s our “talisman”, a step above everyone else in the team, and the only true stand out player we have right now whose been here long enough to show they can keep up that level. His work rate is superb, his aerial presence is vital for us and his desire to get on the ball often sees him play as a roaming playmaker, which we need if we want to play out from the back. I don't think he dives and rolls a lot at all. Indeed he doesn't win about a third of the free kicks he should get imo. He goes down a lot because he gets kicked a lot. As I’ve said, I agree and disagree to an extent, so we’ll just have to leave it at that.
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Post by cvillestokie on Feb 17, 2022 14:12:44 GMT
I agree with CBUFAWKIPWH in part. I have loved Powell for the last season and a half. He’s been very consistent and our most important /consistent player since Campbell got injured. However, while he does get fouled a lot, he also rolls around a lot/play acts/cheats. That’s a part of football I despise and it frustrates the hell out of me that it’s become more and more tolerated. Footballers no longer ride a challenge either, but run face on into one hoping for a foul, or even stick a leg out trying to get fouled. Powell gets fouled a lot, but he also dives a lot and makes the most out of every tackle regardless of whether it may or may not hurt. I personally hate seeing players roll around like war victims at every opportunity of the game. I still think he’s our “talisman”, a step above everyone else in the team, and the only true stand out player we have right now whose been here long enough to show they can keep up that level. His work rate is superb, his aerial presence is vital for us and his desire to get on the ball often sees him play as a roaming playmaker, which we need if we want to play out from the back. Referees are partly to blame. If you don't go down you don't get a foul. It's all very well wanting us to play like the 70s but the games has moved on. To rail against it is like King Canute trying to turn the tide back. It doesn’t even have to be as relatively extreme as the 70s, I’d just like to watch a grown man act like an adult rather than a petulant child. For me, it’s the one thing I truly despise about the game. I can see it only continuing to escalate and at some point, I’ll probably just have enough of it. The thought of which truly makes me sad.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 17, 2022 14:23:31 GMT
Are you saying you'd rather have someone less impactful who 'gets on with the game' than a more influential one who (debatably) doesn't? Powell isn't fouled because he stays down - yes his antics play a part but he's predominantly targeted because he's our best threat. Baker is a completely different type of player in a different position. No - I think Vrancic has been as impactful as Powell this season but in a different way. Powell is more of a goal threat and Vrancic's pass accuracy is more consistent and has resulted in more assists. In terms of who is more effective it depends on the formation. In the currently favoured 21 in midfield I'd pick Powell over Vrancic but in a 12 or in front of a back five in terms of effectiveness this season I'd pick Vrancic over Powell and wouldn't be averse to picking them both. I agree Baker is a different player to both Vrancic and Powell but I think he's the only midfielder we have who could hold his own in the Premiership - he's a step up in quality on both of them. Any manager or defender who understands the dark arts (ie all of them) will target Powell because he's effective AND he's a soft touch. If he wasn't such a mardarse they wouldn't bother - there would be no point. I can appreciate Powell's qualities and want him in the team but that doesn't mean I have to think he's God's gift or even have to like him. I can't believe you think Powell is a soft touch. Some thought Eden Hazard was too, but he was kicked to bits all the time.
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Post by nottsover60 on Feb 17, 2022 14:29:17 GMT
Or you could call it 'he gets to the ball first alot and is then fouled' which is exactly what it is. That's partly the case, but one of his favourite moves when he's running with the ball is to shift his body into the defender and fall over. I'm not knocking him for it by the way Exactly what he does. I remember him doing this for Wigan at the Brit right in front of us a few times and the crowd were incensed but he was loving it. I hated him that day and was so angry. Now he does it for us I love it but I can see why referees have problems because he does put himself there to be fouled when he has no need to and then milks the situation. To me when he gets up laughing it's because the defender doesn't think he fouled and Powell is laughing because he got the free kick. None of that is to say that he isn't fouled a lot but I think the players who get most free kicks are the ones who are waiting to feel a touch to go down like Zaha.
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 17, 2022 14:33:46 GMT
He does like to go looking for fouls alot I'd say he doesn't "go looking for them" that he just makes the most of them when they come!
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Post by J-Roar on Feb 17, 2022 17:02:39 GMT
Referees are partly to blame. If you don't go down you don't get a foul. It's all very well wanting us to play like the 70s but the games has moved on. To rail against it is like King Canute trying to turn the tide back. It doesn’t even have to be as relatively extreme as the 70s, I’d just like to watch a grown man act like an adult rather than a petulant child. For me, it’s the one thing I truly despise about the game. I can see it only continuing to escalate and at some point, I’ll probably just have enough of it. The thought of which truly makes me sad. They get paid to win and will do what it takes to achieve that. It's up to referees and FAs to clamp down on it. Players will always get away with what they can. I actually think it's got a bit better this season after they obviously took the decision at the euros to stop ultra soft fouls.
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Post by middleoftheboothen on Feb 17, 2022 21:04:08 GMT
Or you could call it 'he gets to the ball first alot and is then fouled' which is exactly what it is. That's partly the case, but one of his favourite moves when he's running with the ball is to shift his body into the defender and fall over. I'm not knocking him for it by the way I'd say it's clever play in that situation and keeps us at the right end of the pitch and he's brilliant at doing that.
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Post by femark on Feb 17, 2022 21:12:34 GMT
That's partly the case, but one of his favourite moves when he's running with the ball is to shift his body into the defender and fall over. I'm not knocking him for it by the way I'd say it's clever play in that situation and keeps us at the right end of the pitch and he's brilliant at doing that. I agree although he sometimes does it when he doesn’t need to. Some of our other players should take note instead of being muscles off the ball and causing us problems
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Post by hyaduck on Feb 18, 2022 11:47:58 GMT
Quite the keyboard warrior while sat in the comfort of your four walls. You’re boring, change the record!!!!
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Post by FullerMagic on Feb 18, 2022 13:40:52 GMT
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Post by GoBoks on Feb 18, 2022 13:47:13 GMT
Who cares whether he is a soft touch or not; whether he looks for fouls or not; etc etc? I'm just glad that he is our player and is yet another option for us to use as the situation requires. C'Mon Stoke, C'mon Powell, Vrancic and Baker, C'Mon Mon!
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Post by theonlooker on Feb 19, 2022 17:39:06 GMT
Missed him chronically like we always do when he isn't in the side. We don't play with the same tempo and guile without him.
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