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Post by jokker on Mar 26, 2022 2:00:23 GMT
I said top 10 to differentiate from the bottom clubs, which there'd be no point in joining because he could be playing championship football the season after joining, so he might as well have stayed with us. I didn't say top 4 clubs, because he's not a Champions League player in the making. That said he's a better player than Maguire, so he could be targetted by manure eventually. However he could be a target for clubs like West Ham, as I already said, or Leicester, even if they're not actually top 10 right now. But first he needs to get fit, and as we've seen with long absentees like Allen and Campbell, being given the all clear by the club doctors doesn't automatically mean that he'll be in his best form straight away. It could take up to another year, by which time he'll be 25 going on 26, and suddenly he may be in a hurry yo get his move, if ever he does. We can't really compare Shawcross or Huth, because he has never played in the PL. On the othar hand those two weren't allowed by Pulis to be "playing defenders", which Souttar has had the liberty of at his clubs and country so far. But it's when he plays at the top level we will know whether he's good enough there. He’s not a better player than Maguire. Not even close. Maguire has had a pretty torrid season, but he’s also played 41x for England. Souttar wouldn’t even get close. It’s “if” he’ll play at the top level. His next year is likely to be crucial for him. After that he’s approaching peak and he needs to be in the premier league if he is to continue to grow. Others mentioned Champions League on here, so I replied more broadly. That said, as I’ve already given an example in Mitrovic, there is a big difference between the two leagues. Mitrovic has blown this league apart twice now and didn’t do all too much last season. Ivan Toney, Timu Pukki and Ollie Watkins all were far above the Championship, yet they’ve at best, done okay in the Premier League. Souttar was a very good defender in this league, but he wasn’t such a stand out as any of those have been as forwards. I don't think Souttar, being Scottish by birth, would want to challenge for any of Maguire's caps :-) I've never understood why Maguire was selected for England and I don't see him as top PL player. Obviously he can head a ball, but he's been exposed badly so many times in other regards. I can only assume that he has some leadership qualities on and off the pitch that make managers see through his abject defensive abilities.
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Post by GeneralFaye on Mar 31, 2022 18:07:55 GMT
Back on the grass already.. oh how we've missed the big man.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Mar 31, 2022 18:34:46 GMT
I said top 10 to differentiate from the bottom clubs, which there'd be no point in joining because he could be playing championship football the season after joining, so he might as well have stayed with us. I didn't say top 4 clubs, because he's not a Champions League player in the making. That said he's a better player than Maguire, so he could be targetted by manure eventually. However he could be a target for clubs like West Ham, as I already said, or Leicester, even if they're not actually top 10 right now. But first he needs to get fit, and as we've seen with long absentees like Allen and Campbell, being given the all clear by the club doctors doesn't automatically mean that he'll be in his best form straight away. It could take up to another year, by which time he'll be 25 going on 26, and suddenly he may be in a hurry yo get his move, if ever he does. We can't really compare Shawcross or Huth, because he has never played in the PL. On the othar hand those two weren't allowed by Pulis to be "playing defenders", which Souttar has had the liberty of at his clubs and country so far. But it's when he plays at the top level we will know whether he's good enough there. He’s not a better player than Maguire. Not even close. Maguire has had a pretty torrid season, but he’s also played 41x for England. Souttar wouldn’t even get close. It’s “if” he’ll play at the top level. His next year is likely to be crucial for him. After that he’s approaching peak and he needs to be in the premier league if he is to continue to grow. Others mentioned Champions League on here, so I replied more broadly. That said, as I’ve already given an example in Mitrovic, there is a big difference between the two leagues. Mitrovic has blown this league apart twice now and didn’t do all too much last season. Ivan Toney, Timu Pukki and Ollie Watkins all were far above the Championship, yet they’ve at best, done okay in the Premier League. Souttar was a very good defender in this league, but he wasn’t such a stand out as any of those have been as forwards. Only okay? I think Pukki especially has done brilliantly both seasons in the Premier League in a struggling Norwich team. If it wasn't for Salah being so far ahead of everyone else, Toney would be in the mix for the Golden Boot this season. He's up there with the rest, including Son, Jota, Kane, Ronaldo, Mané... Watkins scored more in his debut Premier League season than any Stoke player ever did, and made his England debut in that same season. Apart from last season when he had all sorts of issues, Mitrovic has a good record in the Premier League too. Given he'd be playing with and against better players, I think Souttar would develop into a good Premier League player very quickly.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 31, 2022 18:44:16 GMT
“He’s back on the grass, he’s back on the grassssss…….Harry Souttar, he’s back on the grass”
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Post by FullerMagic on Mar 31, 2022 18:48:24 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/harry-souttar-injury-stoke-city-6881186"The target was always to come back - touch wood - hopefully for the first game of the season, 30 July, and I think we're on target for that," he disclosed. "That's barring any niggly stuff. With the main injury you always pick up injuries along the way, because you've not done running for four months so your hamstrings and calves are basically dead. Things like that. "Hopefully it all goes well and I'm back playing in pre-season and getting minutes under my belt and having a full pre-season with the team, which I didn't get last year because I was away with the international team for the whole summer. That'd be nice to get that in with the boys and hopefully get fit for the first game."
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 31, 2022 18:49:12 GMT
www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/harry-souttar-injury-stoke-city-6881186"The target was always to come back - touch wood - hopefully for the first game of the season, 30 July, and I think we're on target for that," he disclosed. "That's barring any niggly stuff. With the main injury you always pick up injuries along the way, because you've not done running for four months so your hamstrings and calves are basically dead. Things like that. "Hopefully it all goes well and I'm back playing in pre-season and getting minutes under my belt and having a full pre-season with the team, which I didn't get last year because I was away with the international team for the whole summer. That'd be nice to get that in with the boys and hopefully get fit for the first game." Sounds promising that……….but this is Stoke!!
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Post by cvillestokie on Apr 1, 2022 4:39:50 GMT
He’s not a better player than Maguire. Not even close. Maguire has had a pretty torrid season, but he’s also played 41x for England. Souttar wouldn’t even get close. It’s “if” he’ll play at the top level. His next year is likely to be crucial for him. After that he’s approaching peak and he needs to be in the premier league if he is to continue to grow. Others mentioned Champions League on here, so I replied more broadly. That said, as I’ve already given an example in Mitrovic, there is a big difference between the two leagues. Mitrovic has blown this league apart twice now and didn’t do all too much last season. Ivan Toney, Timu Pukki and Ollie Watkins all were far above the Championship, yet they’ve at best, done okay in the Premier League. Souttar was a very good defender in this league, but he wasn’t such a stand out as any of those have been as forwards. Only okay? I think Pukki especially has done brilliantly both seasons in the Premier League in a struggling Norwich team. If it wasn't for Salah being so far ahead of everyone else, Toney would be in the mix for the Golden Boot this season. He's up there with the rest, including Son, Jota, Kane, Ronaldo, Mané... Watkins scored more in his debut Premier League season than any Stoke player ever did, and made his England debut in that same season. Apart from last season when he had all sorts of issues, Mitrovic has a good record in the Premier League too. Given he'd be playing with and against better players, I think Souttar would develop into a good Premier League player very quickly. Yes, only okay. Pukki got less than 1 in 3 in the premier, he scored 29 in 43 in the Championship. 1 in 3 is not bad, but it’s exactly that. You aren’t going anywhere fast with a 1 in 3 striker as your main attacking threat. He is just that as well, pretty much their sole attacking threat. There is a reason why players like Pukki and even our own Fuller never went further than a small club in the Premier League. Toney is having a more than okay season, but whether he can do that again next year remains to be seen. Though, of the players you mentioned, Ronaldo is over the hill, Mane and Jota are not lead goal scoring threats, Man City don’t have a lead striker after Aguero, Vardy is too old, Son isn’t a main striker and Kane has only just bothered playing again. It’s been an awful year for the stand out strikers this season. Mitrovic has far been from a “good” record in the premier league. It’s like saying Brown has a good record in this league. 10/11 goals isn’t good, it’s expected to be better than that if you’re a main striker (Brown is among my favourite stoke players at present actually). I think Stoke fans are just used to not having a regular scorer. We haven’t had one since Thorne. Those mentioned are literally the cream of the crop in this league as well. When they were here, they were so obviously better than all else. Souttar is very good, but he isn’t of a comparable level to that of say Mitrovic as a striker.
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Post by lordb on Apr 1, 2022 6:56:14 GMT
Only okay? I think Pukki especially has done brilliantly both seasons in the Premier League in a struggling Norwich team. If it wasn't for Salah being so far ahead of everyone else, Toney would be in the mix for the Golden Boot this season. He's up there with the rest, including Son, Jota, Kane, Ronaldo, Mané... Watkins scored more in his debut Premier League season than any Stoke player ever did, and made his England debut in that same season. Apart from last season when he had all sorts of issues, Mitrovic has a good record in the Premier League too. Given he'd be playing with and against better players, I think Souttar would develop into a good Premier League player very quickly. Yes, only okay. Pukki got less than 1 in 3 in the premier, he scored 29 in 43 in the Championship. 1 in 3 is not bad, but it’s exactly that. You aren’t going anywhere fast with a 1 in 3 striker as your main attacking threat. He is just that as well, pretty much their sole attacking threat. There is a reason why players like Pukki and even our own Fuller never went further than a small club in the Premier League. Toney is having a more than okay season, but whether he can do that again next year remains to be seen. Though, of the players you mentioned, Ronaldo is over the hill, Mane and Jota are not lead goal scoring threats, Man City don’t have a lead striker after Aguero, Vardy is too old, Son isn’t a main striker and Kane has only just bothered playing again. It’s been an awful year for the stand out strikers this season. Mitrovic has far been from a “good” record in the premier league. It’s like saying Brown has a good record in this league. 10/11 goals isn’t good, it’s expected to be better than that if you’re a main striker (Brown is among my favourite stoke players at present actually). I think Stoke fans are just used to not having a regular scorer. We haven’t had one since Thorne. Those mentioned are literally the cream of the crop in this league as well. When they were here, they were so obviously better than all else. Souttar is very good, but he isn’t of a comparable level to that of say Mitrovic as a striker. 'Mane and Jota are not lead goal threats' You are so right, Klopp out
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Post by liathroid on Apr 1, 2022 10:39:52 GMT
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Post by scfc75 on Apr 1, 2022 10:40:48 GMT
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 1, 2022 17:09:29 GMT
Only okay? I think Pukki especially has done brilliantly both seasons in the Premier League in a struggling Norwich team. If it wasn't for Salah being so far ahead of everyone else, Toney would be in the mix for the Golden Boot this season. He's up there with the rest, including Son, Jota, Kane, Ronaldo, Mané... Watkins scored more in his debut Premier League season than any Stoke player ever did, and made his England debut in that same season. Apart from last season when he had all sorts of issues, Mitrovic has a good record in the Premier League too. Given he'd be playing with and against better players, I think Souttar would develop into a good Premier League player very quickly. Yes, only okay. Pukki got less than 1 in 3 in the premier, he scored 29 in 43 in the Championship. 1 in 3 is not bad, but it’s exactly that. You aren’t going anywhere fast with a 1 in 3 striker as your main attacking threat. He is just that as well, pretty much their sole attacking threat. There is a reason why players like Pukki and even our own Fuller never went further than a small club in the Premier League. Toney is having a more than okay season, but whether he can do that again next year remains to be seen. Though, of the players you mentioned, Ronaldo is over the hill, Mane and Jota are not lead goal scoring threats, Man City don’t have a lead striker after Aguero, Vardy is too old, Son isn’t a main striker and Kane has only just bothered playing again. It’s been an awful year for the stand out strikers this season. Mitrovic has far been from a “good” record in the premier league. It’s like saying Brown has a good record in this league. 10/11 goals isn’t good, it’s expected to be better than that if you’re a main striker (Brown is among my favourite stoke players at present actually). I think Stoke fans are just used to not having a regular scorer. We haven’t had one since Thorne. Those mentioned are literally the cream of the crop in this league as well. When they were here, they were so obviously better than all else. Souttar is very good, but he isn’t of a comparable level to that of say Mitrovic as a striker. In most Premier League seasons, only 2-3 players score 20 goals or more, and usually they're all players in teams challenging for the Champions League places season after season (with occasional exceptions like Ings at Southampton). 15 goals is often enough to comfortably be one of the top 10 scorers. Norwich are a Championship team that hasn't stepped up, and Pukki still managed double figures a couple of seasons ago and looks like he might again this.
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Post by liathroid on Apr 14, 2022 7:10:22 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 20, 2022 8:12:51 GMT
This suggests two things to me: 1) Harry Souttar is worth his weight in gold 2) THB and Souttar would be a potentially brilliant centre half pairing or as part of a back three with Wilmott.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 20, 2022 16:31:40 GMT
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Post by a on Apr 20, 2022 16:40:09 GMT
This suggests two things to me: 1) Harry Souttar is worth his weight in gold 2) THB and Souttar would be a potentially brilliant centre half pairing or as part of a back three with Wilmott. Is that ‘L Moore’ in the “basically a shit defender” quadrant the one we’ve had from Reading? 😂
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Post by gawa on Apr 20, 2022 16:46:59 GMT
This suggests two things to me: 1) Harry Souttar is worth his weight in gold 2) THB and Souttar would be a potentially brilliant centre half pairing or as part of a back three with Wilmott. Don’t let bayernoatcake see this! According to him neither Wilmot or THB are progressive! Another statistic like the Bursik ones which prove him wrong again.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 20, 2022 16:53:27 GMT
This suggests two things to me: 1) Harry Souttar is worth his weight in gold 2) THB and Souttar would be a potentially brilliant centre half pairing or as part of a back three with Wilmott. Is that ‘L Moore’ in the “basically a shit defender” quadrant the one we’ve had from Reading? 😂 It suggests he's not great on the ball, I'm surprised by his lack of aerial dominance mind as I thought he was decent in the air in his short time with us........
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 20, 2022 16:54:45 GMT
This suggests two things to me: 1) Harry Souttar is worth his weight in gold 2) THB and Souttar would be a potentially brilliant centre half pairing or as part of a back three with Wilmott. Don’t let bayernoatcake see this! According to him neither Wilmot or THB are progressive! Another statistic like the Bursik ones which prove him wrong again. I said they don’t take risks with their passing. Which is different isn’t it. Why are you on a Stoke forum anyway?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 20, 2022 17:01:15 GMT
This suggests two things to me: 1) Harry Souttar is worth his weight in gold 2) THB and Souttar would be a potentially brilliant centre half pairing or as part of a back three with Wilmott. Is that ‘L Moore’ in the “basically a shit defender” quadrant the one we’ve had from Reading? 😂 Backs up what the eyes witness. I would love to see where Chester is on there.
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Post by gawa on Apr 20, 2022 17:01:41 GMT
Don’t let bayernoatcake see this! According to him neither Wilmot or THB are progressive! Another statistic like the Bursik ones which prove him wrong again. I said they don’t take risks with their passing. Which is different isn’t it. Why are you on a Stoke forum anyway? Surely the most progressive players are the ones who take risks. Playing it safe playing it backwards wouldn’t be progressive! I got banned from the Bayern Munich one so came here instead!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 20, 2022 17:03:05 GMT
I said they don’t take risks with their passing. Which is different isn’t it. Why are you on a Stoke forum anyway? Surely the most progressive players are the ones who take risks. Playing it safe playing it backwards wouldn’t be progressive! I got banned from the Bayern Munich one so came here instead! But a progressive pass is defined as a forward pass. I never said they didn’t pass it forwards. I just don’t think they take risks with their passing. I still don’t. I like both of them at CB and like their passing so it’s a really strange thing to pick up on.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 20, 2022 19:49:06 GMT
Surely the most progressive players are the ones who take risks. Playing it safe playing it backwards wouldn’t be progressive! I got banned from the Bayern Munich one so came here instead! But a progressive pass is defined as a forward pass. I never said they didn’t pass it forwards. I just don’t think they take risks with their passing. I still don’t. I like both of them at CB and like their passing so it’s a really strange thing to pick up on. Should defenders be taking risks with their passing? Maybe they don't have that quality (yet)? Maybe they're told to play it safe?
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Post by loyalstripey on Apr 20, 2022 20:32:16 GMT
He can deliver a good forward pass can Harry..... lets hope he's ready to deliver a few more starting at the very first game of next season!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 20, 2022 20:41:11 GMT
But a progressive pass is defined as a forward pass. I never said they didn’t pass it forwards. I just don’t think they take risks with their passing. I still don’t. I like both of them at CB and like their passing so it’s a really strange thing to pick up on. Should defenders be taking risks with their passing? Maybe they don't have that quality (yet)? Maybe they're told to play it safe? No they shouldn’t. I never said they should 😂
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Post by onefatcopper on Apr 20, 2022 20:59:08 GMT
Don’t let bayernoatcake see this! According to him neither Wilmot or THB are progressive! Another statistic like the Bursik ones which prove him wrong again. I said they don’t take risks with their passing. Which is different isn’t it. Why are you on a Stoke forum anyway? Because he/she has the same right to post their point of view or observations as you or me, it looks like they have already noticed someone’s positive outlook on the world of Stoke City !
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Apr 20, 2022 21:03:01 GMT
Should defenders be taking risks with their passing? Maybe they don't have that quality (yet)? Maybe they're told to play it safe? No they shouldn’t. I never said they should 😂 Ah yes, I did get confused there! I sometimes do when you make sensible comments.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 23, 2022 7:22:43 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Apr 23, 2022 7:24:31 GMT
Ostigard was wank at passing 😂
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Post by willieeetmiout on Apr 23, 2022 7:28:47 GMT
I can't see Ballard or Clarke-Salter ever getting game time for Arsenal or Chelsea. Would be great signings for next season imho either in loan or permanent. I really like Ronnie Edwards at Peterborough too.
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Post by pottersrule on Apr 23, 2022 9:53:52 GMT
I can't see Ballard or Clarke-Salter ever getting game time for Arsenal or Chelsea. Would be great signings for next season imho either in loan or permanent. I really like Ronnie Edwards at Peterborough too. He has the worst score for aerial dominance and progression of the ball data.What does he do that you really like?
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