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Post by Gary Hackett on Jun 18, 2022 13:47:49 GMT
He should have been given just 2 options:
1) Grant his wishes, let him leave and cancel his contract.
2) Stay here.
I'm sure if he'd have wanted to go so badly he'd have just gone on their reduced terms.
The point I'm making is why do we get into a negotiation with a player who wants to go elsewhere.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2022 13:51:05 GMT
The fault if there is any is entirely on the club, yes. I don’t think he necessarily would have been aware of interest in him prior to the extension being triggered. It might’ve been triggered months ago for all we know. Months ago? Did you not say it was able to be triggered based on appearances? You don’t know and I don’t know what he knew and didn’t know. Just put my thoughts on the situation looking from the in from the outside. I may be miles off and accept that. Yes, hence me saying ‘for all we know’. It depends how many appearances it took to trigger it, doesn’t it?
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Post by cvillestokie on Jun 18, 2022 13:57:40 GMT
Months ago? Did you not say it was able to be triggered based on appearances? You don’t know and I don’t know what he knew and didn’t know. Just put my thoughts on the situation looking from the in from the outside. I may be miles off and accept that. Yes, hence me saying ‘for all we know’. It depends how many appearances it took to trigger it, doesn’t it? Even if he was, I would not blame him for looking out for himself. I would do the exact same thing. His career is almost over, he should be trying to horde as much gold as he can. It’s madness that the club decided to put in these types of extensions for older players. The club should have the right to trigger an extension if they so choose, the player should not.
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 13:58:04 GMT
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Post by webbyscfc on Jun 18, 2022 13:58:04 GMT
Months ago? Did you not say it was able to be triggered based on appearances? You don’t know and I don’t know what he knew and didn’t know. Just put my thoughts on the situation looking from the in from the outside. I may be miles off and accept that. Yes, hence me saying ‘for all we know’. It depends how many appearances it took to trigger it, doesn’t it? I would think that the contract is not automatically triggered when the appearances total is reached, and it would take the player to agree to the clause being triggered. Just my hunch. Don’t let my hunch spoil your day. I hope I am wrong and this unmissable opportunity for Mario to play in the sunshine in front of 8 thousand people every week whilst heavily subsidised by us is exactly what he claims it to be. I wish him all the best.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2022 14:09:21 GMT
Yes, hence me saying ‘for all we know’. It depends how many appearances it took to trigger it, doesn’t it? I would think that the contract is not automatically triggered when the appearances total is reached, and it would take the player to agree to the clause being triggered. Just my hunch. Don’t let my hunch spoil your day. I hope I am wrong and this unmissable opportunity for Mario to play in the sunshine in front of 8 thousand people every week whilst heavily subsidised by us is exactly what he claims it to be. I wish him all the best. I dare say it might take that, so what? I don’t really care either way, I don’t think it’s any great loss and I don’t think he’s done anything most of us wouldn’t do in the same situation.
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 14:17:51 GMT
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Post by webbyscfc on Jun 18, 2022 14:17:51 GMT
I would think that the contract is not automatically triggered when the appearances total is reached, and it would take the player to agree to the clause being triggered. Just my hunch. Don’t let my hunch spoil your day. I hope I am wrong and this unmissable opportunity for Mario to play in the sunshine in front of 8 thousand people every week whilst heavily subsidised by us is exactly what he claims it to be. I wish him all the best. I dare say it might take that, so what? I don’t really care either way, I don’t think it’s any great loss and I don’t think he’s done anything most of us wouldn’t do in the same situation. It seems you do care though. And you confuse me, you defend Mario against me saying how I think he manipulated the situation saying that it might not be the case, then go on to agree with what I am saying by implying he has done what most of us would do in that situation. Like I said I never said he has done anything wrong, just that it seems he has played us. A bit strange. And financially for Stoke City, it is a loss. I hope that clears things up for you with my thoughts on the situation. If you don’t like it, just move on, it’s fine, my opinion really does not matter.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 18, 2022 14:22:56 GMT
I dare say it might take that, so what? I don’t really care either way, I don’t think it’s any great loss and I don’t think he’s done anything most of us wouldn’t do in the same situation. It seems you do care though. And you confuse me, you defend Mario against me saying how I think he manipulated the situation saying that it might not be the case, then go on to agree with what I am saying by implying he has done what most of us would do in that situation. Like I said I never said he has done anything wrong, just that it seems he has played us. A bit strange. And financially for Stoke City, it is a loss. I hope that clears things up for you with my thoughts on the situation. If you don’t like it, just move on, it’s fine, my opinion really does not matter. How does it seem like it? It’s just my opinion, no more, no less. I don’t think he has necessarily manipulated anything - we don’t know one way or the other what the terms of the clause were. All I’m saying is that there’s every chance it was triggered a long time before any interest from anywhere else came in, and it isn’t ‘playing’ anyone if subsequently an opportunity arises later that he wants to pursue. It doesn’t seem like he was particularly in our plans anyway. If the club is making a loss then it’s a situation of their own making.
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Post by SamB_SCFC on Jun 18, 2022 14:24:01 GMT
This just seems very Stoke. How can we have allowed a situation where a player who has no intention of playing for us next season can trigger their own contract extension, then immediately bugger off on loan to some Croatian club with us presumably subsidising the majority of the wages? Can't blame Vrancic here, anyone of us would do the same thing if we were able to play where we want whilst maintaining higher wages. But the club shouldn't have allowed contracts like that to be written. It should be the club who decides whether to offer an extended contract and in doing so, it must be with the understanding that the player will be committed to us for the whole season.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 18, 2022 14:29:29 GMT
I don't think either party has done anything majorly wrong.
You could argue making an easily achievable automatic second year was slightly misguided, given his age. But not many were criticising it in the autumn.
The second year became set in stone as soon as he played the 20th/25th or whatever game. That could have been well before the end of the season, quite possibly before his form fell off a cliff post-injury.
I think the decision not to want him around, when we've got a limited budget, is very sensible, given what else we need to get into the club on a restricted budget where every penny counts.
If there were no better offers, paying half his wage is much better than paying it all. I think the stuff from MON about Vrancic asking us to facilitate the move is pure spin to explain us ending up with a player we didn't want for 12 months because of the trigger. We obviously wanted him gone to redirect a chunk of his salary
And from his point of view, if he can get a Stoke-level wage for 12 months, while living on the Croatian coast, close to where he's from, in a financially-challenged league that couldn't otherwise support that wage, why wouldn't you take it?
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 14:52:55 GMT
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 18, 2022 14:52:55 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying?
Do we know?
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 16:30:15 GMT
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Post by StokieNath on Jun 18, 2022 16:30:15 GMT
This Screams dodgy this does
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Post by shakermaker on Jun 18, 2022 17:15:21 GMT
Yes, hence me saying ‘for all we know’. It depends how many appearances it took to trigger it, doesn’t it? I would think that the contract is not automatically triggered when the appearances total is reached, and it would take the player to agree to the clause being triggered. Just my hunch. Don’t let my hunch spoil your day. I hope I am wrong and this unmissable opportunity for Mario to play in the sunshine in front of 8 thousand people every week whilst heavily subsidised by us is exactly what he claims it to be. I wish him all the best. Unfortunately I think you're wrong. Once Mario reached his appearance trigger (let's just say it was 30 appearances), the authority was handed to Mario as to whether he wanted to exercise his option for another year. Whether or not he stays or goes, that trigger legally entitles him to that extension and agreed wages if he wanted it - which he duly took up. It was obviously down to the club whether we allowed him to go, but through our own haplessness we've been forced to settle for the lesser of two shit sarnies by subsidising part of his wages on a loan, rather than paying him full whack for sitting on his arse if we bring in the likes of Laurent and Rinhomota. I think the only way he may have 'played' us is if he himself knew his 30th appearance would trigger the extension, and he kept his head down and let the club amble unknowingly into that extension obligation. If that's the case, then as has been said he's done what anyone else would have and it's the club who yet again have been made to look like total charlatans. The club should be all over every monetary trigger within every contract, and it was up to director level to identify the trigger point was approaching and discuss with MON accordingly. Frankly, MON too should have known this himself as well! Even with Cartwright gone, the management's ineptitude still continues unbounded and this why we've cocked up our recruitment for the past 4 years.
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Post by lordb on Jun 18, 2022 17:21:25 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying? Do we know? No but common sense says not much
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 17:53:26 GMT
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Post by TinkerT on Jun 18, 2022 17:53:26 GMT
He should have been given just 2 options: 1) Grant his wishes, let him leave and cancel his contract. 2) Stay here. I'm sure if he'd have wanted to go so badly he'd have just gone on their reduced terms. The point I'm making is why do we get into a negotiation with a player who wants to go elsewhere. The same way we've offered Allen a contract and he hasn't decided to sign it yet, BTW Mario has only gone on loan but he won't play for us again.
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Post by onepara on Jun 18, 2022 18:00:07 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying? Do we know? Do we care? What does it matter? The finances are worked out to suit the situation, & none of us know what they are.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Jun 18, 2022 18:17:59 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying? Do we know? Do we care? What does it matter? The finances are worked out to suit the situation, & none of us know what they are. Ahh like the finances involving Afobe, Wimmer, Imbula, Etebo, Bauer etc ? I totally understand now.
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 18:18:16 GMT
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 18, 2022 18:18:16 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying? Do we know? Do we care? What does it matter? The finances are worked out to suit the situation, & none of us know what they are. That's the point I'm making....
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 18:57:29 GMT
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Post by a on Jun 18, 2022 18:57:29 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying? Do we know? Do we care? What does it matter? The finances are worked out to suit the situation, & none of us know what they are. They do matter as much as they determine what calibre of player we will be paying to see next season.
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Post by onepara on Jun 18, 2022 20:06:14 GMT
Do we care? What does it matter? The finances are worked out to suit the situation, & none of us know what they are. Ahh like the finances involving Afobe, Wimmer, Imbula, Etebo, Bauer etc ? I totally understand now. You don't know what they were!
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Vrancic
Jun 18, 2022 23:57:50 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 18, 2022 23:57:50 GMT
Ahh like the finances involving Afobe, Wimmer, Imbula, Etebo, Bauer etc ? I totally understand now. You don't know what they were! Do you need to know the club have been shit with all of them? This does have a whiff of that. But if it’s the best offer then so be it. But it’s not a great look for us. Again.
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Post by OldStokie on Jun 19, 2022 11:49:16 GMT
All I'm reading on here is pure supposition. Nobody knows whether we're paying any of his wages or not while he's on loan. MON knows more about the FFP situation here than any of us, and from his statement that he's simply let him go because Mario asked to go would suggest the loan would pretty much have a negligible affect on keeping us within the FFP boundaries. Maybe Mario has decided that he still wants to remain as an EFL player because of all the perks the EFL offers to their players and which may not exist in Croatia such as insurance and pension plans etc. Having gone through all the crap of scraping through FFP rules with the other players mentioned in this thread that have gone on loan, I'm pretty sure the club would have made sure they weren't burned again. Or maybe the club have decided he goes on loan but they've got a recall clause if we become desperate for a midfielder at some time. We just don't know but at least it frees up some cash to help pay for another player coming in.
OS.
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Vrancic
Jun 19, 2022 17:39:16 GMT
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Post by shakermaker on Jun 19, 2022 17:39:16 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying? Do we know? Their highest paid player is around £3k p/week, and I would imagine they would go not much higher than that. Mario was rumoured to be on roughly £11k p/week for us. So that’s roughly £360k in wages we’ve spunked up the wall by not keeping an eye on Mario’s appearances.
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Post by theonlooker on Jun 19, 2022 17:47:27 GMT
How much of his wages are the Croatian club paying? Do we know? Their highest paid player is around £3k p/week, and I would imagine they would go not much higher than that. Mario was rumoured to be on roughly £11k p/week for us. So that’s roughly £360k in wages we’ve spunked up the wall by not keeping an eye on Mario’s appearances. That depends on whether it was an automatic trigger on full wages. Sometimes these clauses trigger on a lesser salary in the second year. We don't know how much of a loan fee they're paying. The truth is we don't know, but equally we don't know how out of the blue this was.
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Post by jokker on Jun 19, 2022 18:04:05 GMT
Yes, hence me saying ‘for all we know’. It depends how many appearances it took to trigger it, doesn’t it? It’s madness that the club decided to put in these types of extensions for older players. The club should have the right to trigger an extension if they so choose, the player should not. The PFA would probably beg to differ, and we all know who has the bigger power in football today.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Jun 19, 2022 18:09:50 GMT
Their highest paid player is around £3k p/week, and I would imagine they would go not much higher than that. Mario was rumoured to be on roughly £11k p/week for us. So that’s roughly £360k in wages we’ve spunked up the wall by not keeping an eye on Mario’s appearances. That depends on whether it was an automatic trigger on full wages. Sometimes these clauses trigger on a lesser salary in the second year. We don't know how much of a loan fee they're paying. The truth is we don't know, but equally we don't know how out of the blue this was. I’m surprised no-one on the Oatie knows the ins and outs of the deal, salary etc. After all it’s common knowledge that JA is/was on 55K a week. 🙄
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Vrancic
Nov 5, 2022 21:00:02 GMT
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Post by Block 26 on Nov 5, 2022 21:00:02 GMT
I miss this guy, thought it was a strange decision to let him go as he was one of the few players who would drive with the ball & create chances.
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Vrancic
Nov 5, 2022 21:08:11 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Nov 5, 2022 21:08:11 GMT
I miss this guy, thought it was a strange decision to let him go as he was one of the few players who would drive with the ball & create chances. He was finished at championship level in my opinion,legs had gone
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Post by Marc01 on Nov 5, 2022 21:08:47 GMT
I miss this guy, thought it was a strange decision to let him go as he was one of the few players who would drive with the ball & create chances. Seeing the ball regular racing over the touchline today, from long range passes on a wet pitch, highlights an inability or unwillingness to carry the ball and take players on. Incredibly frustrating to watch.
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Vrancic
Nov 5, 2022 21:13:14 GMT
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Post by Block 26 on Nov 5, 2022 21:13:14 GMT
I miss this guy, thought it was a strange decision to let him go as he was one of the few players who would drive with the ball & create chances. He was finished at championship level in my opinion,legs had gone He did lose his pace but he still created chances & drove forwards with the ball. He also had the ability to play a defence splitting pass, something that we don’t have today other than Powell.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 5, 2022 21:20:18 GMT
He was finished at championship level in my opinion,legs had gone He did lose his pace but he still created chances & drove forwards with the ball. He also had the ability to play a defence splitting pass, something that we don’t have today other than Powell. I agree, yes he wasn’t the quickest due to his age or whatever but god we miss his class.
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