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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2022 18:18:05 GMT
Possibly, where do Powell/Vrancic fit into that though? I posted this above (and I think someone else also did, or suggested something close): Campbell JPB Powell(DWP until fit) Tymon Allen Baker Smith Wilmot Jags THB Bursik (Bonham until fit) Vrancic would be a bench option to cover the two attacking midfielders - we never have more than 6 or 7 fit of our preferred first choice XI, it seems, in any event. I could go for that, looks good.
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Post by wrighter on Jan 19, 2022 18:18:24 GMT
Gerrard will let him come to us as a thankyou when we stood aside and let him score in his final game for Liverpool
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 19, 2022 18:28:24 GMT
Things seem a hell of a lot more interesting than they did at the final whistle of the Preston game.
The rest of the season should be worth watching.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2022 18:30:28 GMT
You don’t think he’d have a fairly good grasp of football in this country and a manager like MON? Fair enough. I don’t think ‘well if Steven Gerrard thinks something, it must be true’. 😂😂 because that’s obviously what I have implied 😂😂
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 19, 2022 18:32:25 GMT
Who doesn’t rate him on here? Just doesn’t seem the need for him. Doesn’t seem the need for him? What’s that mean? We don’t play with wingers
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2022 18:33:51 GMT
I don’t think ‘well if Steven Gerrard thinks something, it must be true’. 😂😂 because that’s obviously what I have implied 😂😂 I mean, it is. I just find the ‘X should know, so you plebs should pipe down’ discourse a bit tedious. Happy to not let this tangent clog up a thread about an exciting young player we’re apparently signing though.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 19, 2022 18:33:59 GMT
Doesn’t seem the need for him? What’s that mean? We don’t play with wingers I agree, we don’t need him. Seems like another signing for the sake of a signing like Sawyers.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 19, 2022 18:36:08 GMT
We don’t play with wingers I agree, we don’t need him. Seems like another signing for the sake of a signing like Sawyers. Just creates excess wherever you look. You go 343 you have 4 central midfielders that don’t get a game. A couple of wingers and strikers don’t play. He seems a great talent. But it seems like a lot of hassle.
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jan 19, 2022 18:38:37 GMT
I agree, we don’t need him. Seems like another signing for the sake of a signing like Sawyers. Just creates excess wherever you look. You go 343 you have 4 central midfielders that don’t get a game. A couple of wingers and strikers don’t play. He seems a great talent. But it seems like a lot of hassle. Agreed. Don’t get it at all.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 19, 2022 18:39:05 GMT
I agree, we don’t need him. Seems like another signing for the sake of a signing like Sawyers. Just creates excess wherever you look. You go 343 you have 4 central midfielders that don’t get a game. A couple of wingers and strikers don’t play. He seems a great talent. But it seems like a lot of hassle. Of course, if he does sign and rips it up and we get promoted I’ll perhaps have a different outlook😀 You never know but it just seems like an unnecessary route to go down with MON’s preferred formation and style of play.
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Post by theonlooker on Jan 19, 2022 18:41:10 GMT
He doesn't look like a typical winger to me, more like a floaty 10 out wide as he looks very comfortable coming inside.
As to where he fits into a 352 though, I'd probably guess where Ince has been playing.
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Post by lordb on Jan 19, 2022 18:44:06 GMT
Can he play wing back? Can he play as one if the front two? Or where Ince is playing atm?
If the answer to any of those is yes and he's a huge talent then it makes sense.
If he can't play in those positions then either we are ditching the wing backs , which seems improbable, or the manager is looking for an option off the bench to play a different system.
I.e. start 352 and then switch to 433 or 4231 or even 442/424 for last twenty minutes
Or maybe he's just so good we couldn't resist a loan?
If it's the latter that might be bad management by both O'Neill and Gerard.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jan 19, 2022 18:45:59 GMT
If Nige thought this move was likely he'd be formally drafting his resignation letter as I type.............. He'll just say the ginger haired lad up front, job done.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2022 18:46:27 GMT
Doesn’t seem the need for him? What’s that mean? We don’t play with wingers I was referring to MON and the fact Gerard apparently rates him.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2022 18:47:59 GMT
😂😂 because that’s obviously what I have implied 😂😂 I mean, it is. I just find the ‘X should know, so you plebs should pipe down’ discourse a bit tedious. Happy to not let this tangent clog up a thread about an exciting young player we’re apparently signing though. Not at all. I suggested Gerard might be a good judge and in a position that would allow him to do so. Are you implying that the likes of you and I are better qualified and in better positions to judge?
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2022 18:52:46 GMT
I mean, it is. I just find the ‘X should know, so you plebs should pipe down’ discourse a bit tedious. Happy to not let this tangent clog up a thread about an exciting young player we’re apparently signing though. Not at all. I suggested Gerard might be a good judge and in a position that would allow him to do so. Are you implying that the likes of you and I are better qualified and in better positions to judge? Well you did slightly more than that with the ‘he must not read the Oatcake’ line. I’m sure Gerrard is better placed to judge in terms of the conversations he’s had about our plans and attitude to youth. I’m not sure he’s better placed to judge his tenure and various pros and cons overall, no, as I doubt he’ll have seen as much of us having his own career to focus on and all that.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 19, 2022 18:58:44 GMT
Just creates excess wherever you look. You go 343 you have 4 central midfielders that don’t get a game. A couple of wingers and strikers don’t play. He seems a great talent. But it seems like a lot of hassle. Of course, if he does sign and rips it up and we get promoted I’ll perhaps have a different outlook😀 You never know but it just seems like an unnecessary route to go down with MON’s preferred formation and style of play. And who knows who will leave. But you can’t help thinking logically 😂
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Post by leicspotter on Jan 19, 2022 18:58:52 GMT
I don't get all this, "we already have too many players in midfield" stuff. DWP is clearly one for the future, but based on 1 game can anyone, honestly, say he is the man to propel us to Top 6. He'll likely play a part, but may not be a regular starter (or finisher). Campbell is clearly not anywhere near his best, so again, is unlikely to play too many "90 minutes" for a while yet and Ince, is, well, Ince and could disappear as quickly as he seems to have re-appeared. Same could be said for Clucas, who seems only to excel against his old clubs, whilst Allen could probably do with a rest at his age. Powell and Vrancic are, if history is anything to go by, unlikely to play ALL the remaining games this season and Thompson, when fit, will probably do likewise. All this suggests to me that having a couple of extra midfielders, especially if they have pace and energy, might just be a good idea. And don't forget that we will need extra bodies to cover our run to Wembley in the cup
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 19, 2022 19:23:42 GMT
Not at all. I suggested Gerard might be a good judge and in a position that would allow him to do so. Are you implying that the likes of you and I are better qualified and in better positions to judge? Well you did slightly more than that with the ‘he must not read the Oatcake’ line. I’m sure Gerrard is better placed to judge in terms of the conversations he’s had about our plans and attitude to youth. I’m not sure he’s better placed to judge his tenure and various pros and cons overall, no, as I doubt he’ll have seen as much of us having his own career to focus on and all that. Interesting. Fair enough.
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Post by biglad180 on Jan 19, 2022 19:35:04 GMT
Cannot see why anyone would be against this move it's a win win for us all good players should be welcome plenty of games to play.and if the lad does not do the business he won't play.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 19, 2022 19:35:59 GMT
Cannot see why anyone would be against this move it's a win win for us all good players should be welcome plenty of games to play.and if the lad does not do the business he won't play. You’ve got given the argument why it’s potentially a bad idea though.
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Post by dirtclod on Jan 19, 2022 19:39:15 GMT
Can you imagine the permutations of how Radio Stoke will pronounce this guy's name? Something along the lines of "Philistine Versace" or "Fillogene Bidet." Should be enjoyable.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2022 19:40:56 GMT
Cannot see why anyone would be against this move it's a win win for us all good players should be welcome plenty of games to play.and if the lad does not do the business he won't play. The argument is that he’s a winger and we don’t play wingers. I can see the argument that we’ll play him as a floaty attacking mid or second striker, and that might work great, but it sounds like he’s mostly played as a wide player. It just seems a bit of an odd one.
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Post by nonameface on Jan 19, 2022 19:49:01 GMT
Cannot see why anyone would be against this move it's a win win for us all good players should be welcome plenty of games to play.and if the lad does not do the business he won't play. The argument is that he’s a winger and we don’t play wingers. I can see the argument that we’ll play him as a floaty attacking mid or second striker, and that might work great, but it sounds like he’s mostly played as a wide player. It just seems a bit of an odd one. Historically MON has said he thinks 433 is the optimum formation but that we dont have the players for it. You could see us moving to 343 in the fairly short term with the players we are signing, which might also now be his preferred formation.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 19, 2022 19:50:26 GMT
It does look like there are a maximum of 2 slots for a floaty attacking mid/second striker in any possible formation with a back 3
And we've got Powell, Vrancic, Ince, DWP and JPB competing for them now.
Always a chance that we'll go back to a back 4 (maybe at home where games have been completely different?) and play him as an authentic left winger, but Doughty's going to have a few questions if that happens - and he's contracted for another 3 yrs.
And that formation has tended to crumble whenever Fletcher isn't available.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2022 19:53:14 GMT
The argument is that he’s a winger and we don’t play wingers. I can see the argument that we’ll play him as a floaty attacking mid or second striker, and that might work great, but it sounds like he’s mostly played as a wide player. It just seems a bit of an odd one. Historically MON has said he thinks 433 is the optimum formation but that we dont have the players for it. You could see us moving to 343 in the fairly short term with the players we are signing, which might also now be his preferred formation. An out and out wide three would squeeze out a Powell or a Vrancic. I do quite like the formations people have suggested with two 10s tucked in behind the main striker though.
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Post by somersetstokie on Jan 19, 2022 19:54:46 GMT
Cannot see why anyone would be against this move it's a win win for us all good players should be welcome plenty of games to play.and if the lad does not do the business he won't play. The argument is that he’s a winger and we don’t play wingers. I can see the argument that we’ll play him as a floaty attacking mid or second striker, and that might work great, but it sounds like he’s mostly played as a wide player. It just seems a bit of an odd one. Whatever he is, it seems on that basis that he's something we haven't already got. So something different.
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 19, 2022 19:54:58 GMT
Cannot see why anyone would be against this move it's a win win for us all good players should be welcome plenty of games to play.and if the lad does not do the business he won't play. Agree totally. A 19 year old academy player is not going to be on huge wages. Gerrard knows how we play and isn't worried that we don't play wingers and thinks we will be the best place for him so presumably wants him to play in our system. He also knows the players we have and won't want him to go to a club where he won't stand a chance of playing. Perhaps he thinks having to compete for a place with our players will be good for him and push him out of his comfort zone. Having been crying out for pace and excitement it seems when the prospect of getting more pace in the team a lot of people are saying that we don't need him. Personally if he's similar to DWP I'm excited to see them in the same team. I've sat through enough matches this season watching us try unsuccessfully to pass around teams. The other day I was advocating no more signings but with the proviso that we didn't get the opportunity to sign a player with exceptional talent. If he's better than what we have, if he earns his place and keeps a player out of the team who we imagine should be in the team where is the problem? Said player will have to work harder to get his place back. I think MON has learned the lesson of Campbell last season and Powell this that you don't rely on one player for your attacking options. Can you imagine turning this chance down because we already have enough players to then watch him tearing up the division for one of our rivals? He might not be as good as we imagine in which case I have no doubt MON will bench him but I'd rather find out watching him at Stoke than somewhere else.
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Post by crowey on Jan 19, 2022 19:55:25 GMT
…. or JPB as he will undoubtedly be known
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2022 19:58:25 GMT
The argument is that he’s a winger and we don’t play wingers. I can see the argument that we’ll play him as a floaty attacking mid or second striker, and that might work great, but it sounds like he’s mostly played as a wide player. It just seems a bit of an odd one. Whatever he is, it seems on that basis that he's something we haven't already got. So something different. But something we might not be able to harness if it doesn’t fit with how we set up. Hopefully we can.
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