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Post by noustie on Jan 16, 2022 17:48:34 GMT
An Australian immigration lawyer was on the BBC earlier and basically said what the Immigration Minister wants they typically get in an appeal. Surely the focus should be on their legal system rather than the celebrity as the political superseding the judicial is surely more dangerous to public health than one geezer living in a bubble; even his influence would be minimal given their vaccination rates. Was he in a bubble when he did a interview for the French sports magazine while positive? Because I disagree with Australia's immigration system doesn't mean I automatically agree with Djokovic. Current climate seems to dictate you have to be partisan though and nuance is out the window. Deport him for lying on his form by all means. Suggesting it's because he's a public health emergency is nonsense because nothing has changed since they gave him his visa other than their own case numbers being amongst the highest in the world due to their own strategy of letting Omicron rip. What my point was is, even if Novak got a visa then went on nightly trolley handle licking expeditions, would he be more risk to public health than an immigration system with refugees holed up in various degrees of squalor, like the 30 at Novak's Hotel nearing a decade with apparently no means to contest their plight to a legal system that apparently answers to the political rather than the other way about? Those happy clapping his deportation seem myopic to the dysfunctional system doing it and simply can't pick and choose which bits to be ethical on as it's an absolute - your actions are either ethical or they aren't. Their immigration system would appear to have undue influence over the judicial and would be a red flag in a democracy but the tennis star gets the attention because it is more salacious
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Post by hammered on Jan 16, 2022 18:23:02 GMT
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Djokovic visa stuff, rules are rules so the triple jabbed french player with covid is perfectly entitled to enter prison island. It makes perfect sense having protected himself and others from the deadly virus. The Aussies can rest easy tonight knowing that the major health threat to their nation has been deported for a thought crime and they can all get on with being owned/controlled/coerced by their fuhrer. Well done Morrison.. History will not remember you well!!
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 16, 2022 23:29:52 GMT
Was he in a bubble when he did a interview for the French sports magazine while positive? Because I disagree with Australia's immigration system doesn't mean I automatically agree with Djokovic. Current climate seems to dictate you have to be partisan though and nuance is out the window. Deport him for lying on his form by all means. Suggesting it's because he's a public health emergency is nonsense because nothing has changed since they gave him his visa other than their own case numbers being amongst the highest in the world due to their own strategy of letting Omicron rip. What my point was is, even if Novak got a visa then went on nightly trolley handle licking expeditions, would he be more risk to public health than an immigration system with refugees holed up in various degrees of squalor, like the 30 at Novak's Hotel nearing a decade with apparently no means to contest their plight to a legal system that apparently answers to the political rather than the other way about? Those happy clapping his deportation seem myopic to the dysfunctional system doing it and simply can't pick and choose which bits to be ethical on as it's an absolute - your actions are either ethical or they aren't. Their immigration system would appear to have undue influence over the judicial and would be a red flag in a democracy but the tennis star gets the attention because it is more salacious You are absolutely correct. The implication of this case is Australia’s immigration policy is not ultimately subject to law but the whim of politicians. I couldn’t care less about Djokovic. I am interested in due process. Even if is on the other side of the world.
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Post by JoeinOz on Jan 17, 2022 1:48:57 GMT
Kin hell. On the plane home and he only missed two shots.
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Post by felonious on Jan 17, 2022 6:56:47 GMT
Because I disagree with Australia's immigration system doesn't mean I automatically agree with Djokovic. Current climate seems to dictate you have to be partisan though and nuance is out the window. Deport him for lying on his form by all means. Suggesting it's because he's a public health emergency is nonsense because nothing has changed since they gave him his visa other than their own case numbers being amongst the highest in the world due to their own strategy of letting Omicron rip. What my point was is, even if Novak got a visa then went on nightly trolley handle licking expeditions, would he be more risk to public health than an immigration system with refugees holed up in various degrees of squalor, like the 30 at Novak's Hotel nearing a decade with apparently no means to contest their plight to a legal system that apparently answers to the political rather than the other way about? Those happy clapping his deportation seem myopic to the dysfunctional system doing it and simply can't pick and choose which bits to be ethical on as it's an absolute - your actions are either ethical or they aren't. Their immigration system would appear to have undue influence over the judicial and would be a red flag in a democracy but the tennis star gets the attention because it is more salacious You are absolutely correct. The implication of this case is Australia’s immigration policy is not ultimately subject to law but the whim of politicians. I couldn’t care less about Djokovic. I am interested in due process. Even if is on the other side of the world. Whim of politicians you say? "Djokovic three-year visa ban could end early - Australian PM" www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-60019806
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 17, 2022 7:14:17 GMT
You are absolutely correct. The implication of this case is Australia’s immigration policy is not ultimately subject to law but the whim of politicians. I couldn’t care less about Djokovic. I am interested in due process. Even if is on the other side of the world. Whim of politicians you say? "Djokovic three-year visa ban could end early - Australian PM" www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-60019806Yeah, I noticed that this morning. In Australia it would seem, Rex is Lex.
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Post by franklin on Jan 17, 2022 11:28:54 GMT
Yeah, I noticed that this morning. In Australia it would seem, Rex is Lex. Exposed as we all knew, no special treatment but we'll treat you special next year to allow you to play.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 17, 2022 12:11:14 GMT
I’d love to see the trophy presentation. “Congratulations Novak, what would you like to say?” “Get fucked🖕🏻“. Followed by a mic drop😀 And then he picks the mic back up and says - "I've just got one thing to say to your fascist cunt of a PM - Eat a dick motherfucker. Arrest Morrison, arrest Fauci, arrest Biden, arrest Whitty and those SAGE bitches in England... Ohh and that loser Keir Starmer, lock that bastard up too. Fuck China". Followed by a mic drop. 🎤😎 Such a shame, I was really looking forward to this happening...
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Jan 17, 2022 12:11:45 GMT
And then he picks the mic back up and says - "I've just got one thing to say to your fascist cunt of a PM - Eat a dick motherfucker. Arrest Morrison, arrest Fauci, arrest Biden, arrest Whitty and those SAGE bitches in England... Ohh and that loser Keir Starmer, lock that bastard up too. Fuck China". Followed by a mic drop. 🎤😎 Such a shame, I was really looking forward to this happening... You and me both.
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Post by superjw on Jan 17, 2022 12:24:35 GMT
Yeah, I noticed that this morning. In Australia it would seem, Rex is Lex. Exposed as we all knew, no special treatment but we'll treat you special next year to allow you to play. Because they know this has an impact on the ability to host further Open tournaments...
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Post by superjw on Jan 17, 2022 12:25:32 GMT
Would Djokovic have still been deported if he was jabbed?
The technical answer is yes...
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2022 12:42:55 GMT
The evidence suggest they are totally safe for elite level sportsman. The majority of elite level sportsman have been vaccinated and have seen no adverse impacts. The clearest evidence is that not having the vaccine increases the likelihood of more severe covid, and the perhaps unnecessary waste of health services. The other clear evidence is that if you have covid and isolate, you are less likely to spread it. Djokovic didn’t isolate when he had covid. Selfish and arrogant. He deserves to have to deal with the consequences of his actions. It is rare that the rich and powerful are made to. No adverse effects on heart function? The likelihood for elite sportsmen is very little effect if any from Covid. They're not unfit, they're not overweight, they don't have multiple comorbidities, everything is in their favour and they most certainly won't be a drain on a national health service. He shouldn't be penalised for being "rich and powerful" whatever that means. Like anyone else rich or poor he should have the freedom to make personal choices.... they're being eroded by the day by coercion. I absolutely agree these are personal choices. Djokovic chose not to get vaccinated and so has not been allowed into Australia as he has no medical exemption from having a vaccine. If there was a strong medical reason why elite level sportsman in particular should not be vaccinated, I am sure many of their private doctors would have released the reasoning. But there isn’t.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2022 12:43:50 GMT
The evidence suggest they are totally safe for elite level sportsman. The majority of elite level sportsman have been vaccinated and have seen no adverse impacts. The clearest evidence is that not having the vaccine increases the likelihood of more severe covid, and the perhaps unnecessary waste of health services. The other clear evidence is that if you have covid and isolate, you are less likely to spread it. Djokovic didn’t isolate when he had covid. Selfish and arrogant. He deserves to have to deal with the consequences of his actions. It is rare that the rich and powerful are made to. So why was Moderna suspended for use in the under 30’s (the vast majority of professional tennis players falling into this bracket), only weeks after the scientists said it was safe for all age groups? I haven’t got a clue. Djokovic is over 30, and there are plenty of other vaccines fully approved for under 30s.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2022 12:49:51 GMT
The data is clear. If you have the vaccine, you are less likely to need to use health service resources. If you have covid and you isolate, you are less likely to spread it. Djokovic hasn’t done either of those things, and under Australian law he had to have a medical exemption to the vaccine to get in, or have it. He didn’t do it. He was deported. Good on Australia. There is no medical reason for Djokovic to not have the vaccine. Else he would be playing in Australia. So you haven't answered my question about long term health effects? You can't A top sports person is very unlikely need to be hospitalised. If you had the jabs or not you need to isolate. If he had a medical exemption can he not pass on a virus? Good on Australia , the top competition you had means nothing without the best players. There is absolutely no evidence of long term health impacts caused by any of the covid vaccines which extend beyond the potential impacts of covid on otherwise fit and healthy people. Being fit and healthy does not protect you from long covid by way of an example. There is plenty of evidence that covid is more likely to be worse if you are not vaccinated. Djokovic isn’t vaccinated. There is plenty of evidence that you are more likely to pass on covid if you do not isolate when infected. Djokovic didn’t isolate. Above all, Djokovic had no medical exemption to the vaccine and so could not enter Australia. Immigration rules should be followed.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2022 12:50:56 GMT
Whatever the rights and wrongs of the Djokovic visa stuff, rules are rules so the triple jabbed french player with covid is perfectly entitled to enter prison island. It makes perfect sense having protected himself and others from the deadly virus. The Aussies can rest easy tonight knowing that the major health threat to their nation has been deported for a thought crime and they can all get on with being owned/controlled/coerced by their fuhrer. Well done Morrison.. History will not remember you well!! History won’t remember him well for his environmental policies.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 17, 2022 13:00:27 GMT
So why was Moderna suspended for use in the under 30’s (the vast majority of professional tennis players falling into this bracket), only weeks after the scientists said it was safe for all age groups? I haven’t got a clue. Djokovic is over 30, and there are plenty of other vaccines fully approved for under 30s. Can you list the plenty of other vaccines that have full regulatory approval for use in the under 30’s please?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2022 13:08:24 GMT
I haven’t got a clue. Djokovic is over 30, and there are plenty of other vaccines fully approved for under 30s. Can you list the plenty of other vaccines that have full regulatory approval for use in the under 30’s please? In England AZ and Pfizer are two. Have a look here for approved vaccines to enter the UK: www.gov.uk/guidance/countries-with-approved-covid-19-vaccination-programmes-and-proof-of-vaccination#approved-vaccinesApproved vaccines You must have had a complete course of one of the following vaccines at least 14 days before you arrive in England: Covaxin Moderna Janssen (single dose vaccine) Novavax (Nuvaxovid and Covovax) Oxford/AstraZeneca Pfizer BioNTech Sinopharm Beijing Sinovac-CoronaVac The day you have your final dose does not count as one of the 14 days. Formulations of these vaccines, such as AstraZeneca Covishield, AstraZeneca Vaxzevria and Moderna Takeda, also qualify as approved vaccines.
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 17, 2022 14:06:19 GMT
Can you list the plenty of other vaccines that have full regulatory approval for use in the under 30’s please? In England AZ and Pfizer are two. Have a look here for approved vaccines to enter the UK: www.gov.uk/guidance/countries-with-approved-covid-19-vaccination-programmes-and-proof-of-vaccination#approved-vaccinesApproved vaccines You must have had a complete course of one of the following vaccines at least 14 days before you arrive in England: Covaxin Moderna Janssen (single dose vaccine) Novavax (Nuvaxovid and Covovax) Oxford/AstraZeneca Pfizer BioNTech Sinopharm Beijing Sinovac-CoronaVac The day you have your final dose does not count as one of the 14 days. Formulations of these vaccines, such as AstraZeneca Covishield, AstraZeneca Vaxzevria and Moderna Takeda, also qualify as approved vaccines. Thanks Being a pedant, none of those vaccines are formally approved for use in humans. Is AZ allowed to be administered to the under 40’s now? Pfizer uses the same technology in its vaccine as Moderna and I haven’t yet seen a scientific reason as to why Moderna was suspended for use in the under 30’s but Pfizer wasn’t. Banging jabs into kids that don’t need it is wrong, adults can make their own risk assessment based on their circumstances Edit: JCVI don’t recommend AZ for healthy people under 30 JCVI currently advises that it is preferable for adults aged <30 years without underlying health conditions that put them at higher risk of severe COVID-19 disease, to be offered an alternative COVID-19 vaccine
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 17, 2022 15:55:11 GMT
In England AZ and Pfizer are two. Have a look here for approved vaccines to enter the UK: www.gov.uk/guidance/countries-with-approved-covid-19-vaccination-programmes-and-proof-of-vaccination#approved-vaccinesApproved vaccines You must have had a complete course of one of the following vaccines at least 14 days before you arrive in England: Covaxin Moderna Janssen (single dose vaccine) Novavax (Nuvaxovid and Covovax) Oxford/AstraZeneca Pfizer BioNTech Sinopharm Beijing Sinovac-CoronaVac The day you have your final dose does not count as one of the 14 days. Formulations of these vaccines, such as AstraZeneca Covishield, AstraZeneca Vaxzevria and Moderna Takeda, also qualify as approved vaccines. Thanks Being a pedant, none of those vaccines are formally approved for use in humans. Is AZ allowed to be administered to the under 40’s now? Pfizer uses the same technology in its vaccine as Moderna and I haven’t yet seen a scientific reason as to why Moderna was suspended for use in the under 30’s but Pfizer wasn’t. Banging jabs into kids that don’t need it is wrong, adults can make their own risk assessment based on their circumstances Edit: JCVI don’t recommend AZ for healthy people under 30 JCVI currently advises that it is preferable for adults aged <30 years without underlying health conditions that put them at higher risk of severe COVID-19 disease, to be offered an alternative COVID-19 vaccine None have been approved for use in humans yet over 9billion vaccinations have been administered for covid. I wonder what percentage of those who have had a vaccine are suffering health problems as a result? Less than 0.01% (900,000) I am sure, else someone would have mentioned it by now. Anyway, Djokovic may well be unable to enter France either it sounds like.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jan 17, 2022 19:05:15 GMT
He won’t be playing in the French Open either, the French Government have just announced all elite athletes in tournaments based on the country will need to be vaccinated…..
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Post by franklin on Jan 17, 2022 19:15:00 GMT
He won’t be playing in the French Open either, the French Government have just announced all elite athletes in tournaments based on the country will need to be vaccinated….. Although there the added caveat of "things could change" as with all covid rules.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Jan 17, 2022 19:31:51 GMT
The way people are revelling in this is actually pretty disturbing and tells you all you need to know.
Like they're actually happy he can no longer work and welcome this as a means of coercion for him having something that will make absolute diddly squat difference to either himself or anyone else.
There's some right sad bastards about, we saw this right from the first lockdown though where they were self-appointed lockdown police.
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Post by felonious on Jan 18, 2022 6:02:24 GMT
The way people are revelling in this is actually pretty disturbing and tells you all you need to know. Like they're actually happy he can no longer work and welcome this as a means of coercion for him having something that will make absolute diddly squat difference to either himself or anyone else. There's some right sad bastards about, we saw this right from the first lockdown though where they were self-appointed lockdown police. It does make you wonder at what point the UK public would start to object about vaccinations for ordinary healthy people capable of making informed choices if this is what the believe is correct for elite level sportsmen? £3,000 a week penalties, forced vaccinations for healthy people, nurses losing jobs?
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Post by felonious on Jan 18, 2022 6:07:25 GMT
No adverse effects on heart function? The likelihood for elite sportsmen is very little effect if any from Covid. They're not unfit, they're not overweight, they don't have multiple comorbidities, everything is in their favour and they most certainly won't be a drain on a national health service. He shouldn't be penalised for being "rich and powerful" whatever that means. Like anyone else rich or poor he should have the freedom to make personal choices.... they're being eroded by the day by coercion. I absolutely agree these are personal choices. Djokovic chose not to get vaccinated and so has not been allowed into Australia as he has no medical exemption from having a vaccine. If there was a strong medical reason why elite level sportsman in particular should not be vaccinated, I am sure many of their private doctors would have released the reasoning. But there isn’t. Absolutely no myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination or is it too early to say. Will we need the evaluation studies in the fullness of time or do you know this now?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 18, 2022 7:47:29 GMT
I absolutely agree these are personal choices. Djokovic chose not to get vaccinated and so has not been allowed into Australia as he has no medical exemption from having a vaccine. If there was a strong medical reason why elite level sportsman in particular should not be vaccinated, I am sure many of their private doctors would have released the reasoning. But there isn’t. Absolutely no myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination or is it too early to say. Will we need the evaluation studies in the fullness of time or do you know this now? There have been over 9 billion vaccinations. How many are suffering adverse health conditions? Far fewer than those who have got covid, that is certain. And far fewer people than 9 billion have had covid. Do you know the long term impact of wifi on your health? What about mobile phone use? No. But I bet you use wifi and have a mobile phone. Sometimes you have to not be cynical and have faith in experts.
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Post by felonious on Jan 18, 2022 8:23:46 GMT
Absolutely no myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination or is it too early to say. Will we need the evaluation studies in the fullness of time or do you know this now? There have been over 9 billion vaccinations. How many are suffering adverse health conditions? Far fewer than those who have got covid, that is certain. And far fewer people than 9 billion have had covid. Do you know the long term impact of wifi on your health? What about mobile phone use? No. But I bet you use wifi and have a mobile phone. Sometimes you have to not be cynical and have faith in experts. There's nothing cynical about questioning Oggy what a silly thing to say. The vaccinations have been a success for the people that desperately needed them just like the flu jab for previous generations. There is however a suble distinction here as we are talking about an elite sportsman who doesn't need a vaccination against Covid. He's had it twice, he knows his body, he knows his performance in between the two bouts of Covid. For him it's all about small margins at elite level so any risk of vaccination, myocarditis/ pericarditis has to be taken into account in making a judgement. We won't know what effect vaccinations have had on public health until some years down the line when the studies have taken place.
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Post by noustie on Jan 18, 2022 11:31:32 GMT
The way people are revelling in this is actually pretty disturbing and tells you all you need to know. Like they're actually happy he can no longer work and welcome this as a means of coercion for him having something that will make absolute diddly squat difference to either himself or anyone else. There's some right sad bastards about, we saw this right from the first lockdown though where they were self-appointed lockdown police. I've posted this before but this is where we are at here: www.hartgroup.org/testimonial-a-mothers-account/Absolutely fucking frightening what she's going through and for what?
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Post by noustie on Jan 18, 2022 11:55:33 GMT
There have been over 9 billion vaccinations. How many are suffering adverse health conditions? Far fewer than those who have got covid, that is certain. And far fewer people than 9 billion have had covid. Do you know the long term impact of wifi on your health? What about mobile phone use? No. But I bet you use wifi and have a mobile phone. Sometimes you have to not be cynical and have faith in experts. There's nothing cynical about questioning Oggy what a silly thing to say. The vaccinations have been a success for the people that desperately needed them just like the flu jab for previous generations. There is however a suble distinction here as we are talking about an elite sportsman who doesn't need a vaccination against Covid. He's had it twice, he knows his body, he knows his performance in between the two bouts of Covid. For him it's all about small margins at elite level so any risk of vaccination, myocarditis/ pericarditis has to be taken into account in making a judgement. We won't know what effect vaccinations have had on public health until some years down the line when the studies have taken place. The Yellow Card data will be worth keeping an eye on - the profit from the vaccine is obvious but the costs will be viewed in 20:20 hindsight: fullfact.org/health/yellow-card-deaths/www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions/coronavirus-vaccine-summary-of-yellow-card-reportingThe MHRA has received 684 UK reports of suspected ADRs to the COVID-19 Pfizer/BioNTech Vaccine in which the patient died shortly after vaccination, 1,182 reports for the COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca, 29 for the COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna and 37 where the brand of vaccine was unspecified. On the one hand the fact check is correct that it could purely be coincidental nearly 2,000 folk have died shortly after taking the vaccine. On the other hand, there are medical professionals on record stating colleagues aren’t even filling in the Yellow Card system as they either don’t know what it is or are encouraged not to. There’s over 1m reported side effects too and that is expected to be massively underrated as the public don’t know about this system – seen it previously suggested the figures reported are about 10% of reality.
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Post by noustie on Jan 18, 2022 12:18:44 GMT
Off the Beeb:
Elsewhere, Australia says it has seen its deadliest day of the pandemic so far, recording a total of 77 deaths - up from the previous national high of 57 on Thursday.
The country is dealing with its worst Covid-19 outbreak, fuelled by the Omicron variant that has put more people in hospitals and intensive care.
New South Wales premier Dominic Perrottet told a media briefing, "today, is a very difficult day for our state," as he announced 36 people had died there, a new pandemic high.
Last month, Australia lifted many strict restrictions after reaching a 90% double-jab target for over-16s.
About 73,000 new infections were reported today, down from a high of 150,000 last Thursday.
For Fuck Sake Novak!
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 18, 2022 15:38:18 GMT
Absolutely no myocarditis or pericarditis after vaccination or is it too early to say. Will we need the evaluation studies in the fullness of time or do you know this now? There have been over 9 billion vaccinations. How many are suffering adverse health conditions? Far fewer than those who have got covid, that is certain. And far fewer people than 9 billion have had covid. Do you know the long term impact of wifi on your health? What about mobile phone use? No. But I bet you use wifi and have a mobile phone. Sometimes you have to not be cynical and have faith in experts. At the time of the vaccine trials they didn’t know it’s efficacy waned over time, so how can they be sure there’s no long term effects?
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