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Post by questionable on Jan 27, 2023 10:35:07 GMT
The next stage for Ukraine is to now advance forward (weather permitting) at a speed that will overrun the vast fortified Russian lines, speed is the key now. Ukraine seem to have the correct balance of tanks/equipment, or will have to dominate the battlefield hopefully. I can 100% see jet fighters being thrown into equipment being supplied very soon and long range missiles to cut off Russian supply routes hundreds of miles away I don't think that mainstream media talking about jet fighters so soon after tanks have been allocated is a coincidence or simple journalistic conjecture. NATO is preparing public opinion for it to happen. I'm not against the move at all, but I find it a bit disturbing how easy it is for general populations to be taken down a road where we will become accepting of each step that's been taken. My point is wider than the Ukraine war, as in my view, more should have been done to help Ukraine sooner, and we should do much more now. My main concern is how easy it is to make us comply with an overriding official message, and therefore, our loss of independent thinking. Oh absolutely we’re being drip fed information, I can guarantee that the tanks promised will be in action within weeks not months from certain countries, additionally the pre training they keep citing IMO has already taken place which includes Leopards/Challengers/Abraham’s and even F16’s, plus MIG’s being offered now but no doubt the country’s handing over their MIG’s will get F16’s in return, great news ofc but months too late.
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Post by steve66 on Jan 27, 2023 11:36:40 GMT
The next stage for Ukraine is to now advance forward (weather permitting) at a speed that will overrun the vast fortified Russian lines, speed is the key now. Ukraine seem to have the correct balance of tanks/equipment, or will have to dominate the battlefield hopefully. I can 100% see jet fighters being thrown into equipment being supplied very soon and long range missiles to cut off Russian supply routes hundreds of miles away I don't think that mainstream media talking about jet fighters so soon after tanks have been allocated is a coincidence or simple journalistic conjecture. NATO is preparing public opinion for it to happen. I'm not against the move at all, but I find it a bit disturbing how easy it is for general populations to be taken down a road where we will become accepting of each step that's been taken. My point is wider than the Ukraine war, as in my view, more should have been done to help Ukraine sooner, and we should do much more now. My main concern is how easy it is to make us comply with an overriding official message, and therefore, our loss of independent thinking. Totally agree with your sentiments re help should of been more & sooner, makes a mockery of the situation in uk with our government scandals re covid parties and subsequent voting new prime minister farce…
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Post by hcstokie on Jan 27, 2023 18:07:57 GMT
Just had my first gas and electric bill after moving onto the new tariff. The sooner the mad fuck receives a bullet through the back of the head, the better.
*In no way is the post comparing my financial suffering to that of brave Ukrainians.
**I’ll happily suck up paying my way to rid the world of that wanker. I’ll also moan my bag off at my energy supplier charging me ridiculous amounts whilst bragging about how amazing they are for producing environmentally friendly (low cost, locally produced) energy.
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Post by musik on Jan 28, 2023 10:13:18 GMT
I’ll also moan my bag off at my energy supplier charging me ridiculous amounts whilst bragging about how amazing they are for producing environmentally friendly (low cost, locally produced) energy. What amazes me is how anything called "environmentally friendly produced" (no matter if it's energy or food) would cost MORE, when it's supposed to be only natural and no artificial shit is added. Production as it used to be.
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 28, 2023 12:02:46 GMT
From what I've heard, it seems that UKR has now been promised the full 300 tanks they want now most of the other NATO and Allies have joined in since the Yanks/Germans have agree to supply some. It now depends entirely on how quickly they're delivered. Things are looking up. 321 tanks.OS.
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Post by questionable on Jan 28, 2023 16:14:25 GMT
From what I've heard, it seems that UKR has now been promised the full 300 tanks they want now most of the other NATO and Allies have joined in since the Yanks/Germans have agree to supply some. It now depends entirely on how quickly they're delivered. Things are looking up. 321 tanks.OS. And if by magic Russian state TV are airing pictures of Abraham’s they’ve already blown up 🤣🤣🤡🤡
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 28, 2023 22:26:00 GMT
Might be pertinent, might not.
But 2/3 ammo making sites in Iran have blown up.
It’s probably Israel but might help Ukraine re supplying munitions.
Edit - Twitter seems to think Azerbaijani drones
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 28, 2023 23:19:21 GMT
Lots of videos like this in past few days. Russia's professional units have been attacking hard in at least two places.
One of those is Vulhedar. Someone posted a video from Vulhedar last year with kids playing happily and speaking either Ukrainian or Russian just fine. Now Russia is trying to wipe it off the map.
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Post by musik on Jan 29, 2023 1:34:42 GMT
When is it this over do you think?
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 29, 2023 7:31:15 GMT
When is it this over do you think? Good question Musik, I'd be happy with tomorrow. I can't see an end in sight sadly. Whenever Russia leaves. Or Ukraine needs a huge military victory for there to be peace... Crossing my fingers for them to pull off something special in summer.
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 29, 2023 11:49:17 GMT
I watched a half hour interview of Zelensky on the news last night. Zelensky may have been a clown but he's certainly an extremely intelligent politician. He spelled out chapter and verse practically everything that had gone on and what probably will happen. It was chilling stuff and as he said, it will probably take Putin's removal/assassination for this war to end. Putin is living like a hermit and he has a taster to eat part of his food before he'll eat anything. Putin is living in a delusional and paranoid world. The question the world is asking now is, is there anybody in Russia who is brave enough and clever enough to depose him?
I hope so.
OS.
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Post by questionable on Jan 29, 2023 12:22:47 GMT
Might be pertinent, might not. But 2/3 ammo making sites in Iran have blown up. It’s probably Israel but might help Ukraine re supplying munitions. Edit - Twitter seems to think Azerbaijani drones About time the Iranians learned that supplying drones to Russia comes with repercussions, and whilst we’re at it their deplorable treatment of women.
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Post by lordb on Jan 29, 2023 12:24:09 GMT
I watched a half hour interview of Zelensky on the news last night. Zelensky may have been a clown but he's certainly an extremely intelligent politician. He spelled out chapter and verse practically everything that had gone on and what probably will happen. It was chilling stuff and as he said, it will probably take Putin's removal/assassination for this war to end. Putin is living like a hermit and he has a taster to eat part of his food before he'll eat anything. Putin is living in a delusional and paranoid world. The question the world is asking now is, is there anybody in Russia who is brave enough and clever enough to depose him? I hope so. OS. Vary rare for a dictator to die peacefully
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Post by questionable on Jan 29, 2023 12:29:48 GMT
I watched a half hour interview of Zelensky on the news last night. Zelensky may have been a clown but he's certainly an extremely intelligent politician. He spelled out chapter and verse practically everything that had gone on and what probably will happen. It was chilling stuff and as he said, it will probably take Putin's removal/assassination for this war to end. Putin is living like a hermit and he has a taster to eat part of his food before he'll eat anything. Putin is living in a delusional and paranoid world. The question the world is asking now is, is there anybody in Russia who is brave enough and clever enough to depose him? I hope so. OS. Our current government are absolute clowns and vile horrible, money grabbing toss pots of the highest order. Zelenksy comes across as a proper caring person who probably knows one mistake from his security team will cost him is life or his families, our ex PM is more concerned about putting £4500 on a government credit card so he can stuff his fat face in New York. Zelenksy seems also to be getting rid of government corruption.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 29, 2023 14:59:02 GMT
Now claims it was American led re Iran.
Which would make sense. It was the natural progression to make.
We’ll see who gets the blame proper though.
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Post by wannabee on Jan 29, 2023 15:39:22 GMT
I watched a half hour interview of Zelensky on the news last night. Zelensky may have been a clown but he's certainly an extremely intelligent politician. He spelled out chapter and verse practically everything that had gone on and what probably will happen. It was chilling stuff and as he said, it will probably take Putin's removal/assassination for this war to end. Putin is living like a hermit and he has a taster to eat part of his food before he'll eat anything. Putin is living in a delusional and paranoid world. The question the world is asking now is, is there anybody in Russia who is brave enough and clever enough to depose him? I hope so. OS. Our current government are absolute clowns and vile horrible, money grabbing toss pots of the highest order. Zelenksy comes across as a proper caring person who probably knows one mistake from his security team will cost him is life or his families, our ex PM is more concerned about putting £4500 on a government credit card so he can stuff his fat face in New York. Zelenksy seems also to be getting rid of government corruption. It's dangerous to make absolute pronouncements using a Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad analogy Prior to Russian Invation the Panama Papers disclosed that Zelensky and his associates were involved in very complex Money Laundering and Tax Evation schemes even more sophisticated than that employed by our erstwhile Chancellor Inevitably and depressingly the skulduggery involves British Overseas Tax Havens and expensive properties in the City of London It also involves these Tax Haven Companies having interests in Russian Companies As OldStokie said recently in relation to Churchill (I'm paraphrasing) You can be an outstanding War Time Leader but be lacking in your other actions Long read www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circle
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Post by drfootball on Jan 30, 2023 11:16:22 GMT
Our current government are absolute clowns and vile horrible, money grabbing toss pots of the highest order. Zelenksy comes across as a proper caring person who probably knows one mistake from his security team will cost him is life or his families, our ex PM is more concerned about putting £4500 on a government credit card so he can stuff his fat face in New York. Zelenksy seems also to be getting rid of government corruption. It's dangerous to make absolute pronouncements using a Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad analogy Prior to Russian Invation the Panama Papers disclosed that Zelensky and his associates were involved in very complex Money Laundering and Tax Evation schemes even more sophisticated than that employed by our erstwhile Chancellor Inevitably and depressingly the skulduggery involves British Overseas Tax Havens and expensive properties in the City of London It also involves these Tax Haven Companies having interests in Russian Companies As OldStokie said recently in relation to Churchill (I'm paraphrasing) You can be an outstanding War Time Leader but be lacking in your other actions Long read www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circleYou`re absolutely spot on, Ukraine was pretty much a gangster state pre invasion and Zelensky was a placeman president. However `cometh the hour, cometh the man` and he`s become a great leader and symbol to his people. Putin`s despicable war on them is horrific and the sooner he`s removed and this is over the better.
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Post by OldStokie on Jan 30, 2023 11:39:34 GMT
It's dangerous to make absolute pronouncements using a Four Legs Good, Two Legs Bad analogy Prior to Russian Invation the Panama Papers disclosed that Zelensky and his associates were involved in very complex Money Laundering and Tax Evation schemes even more sophisticated than that employed by our erstwhile Chancellor Inevitably and depressingly the skulduggery involves British Overseas Tax Havens and expensive properties in the City of London It also involves these Tax Haven Companies having interests in Russian Companies As OldStokie said recently in relation to Churchill (I'm paraphrasing) You can be an outstanding War Time Leader but be lacking in your other actions Long read www.occrp.org/en/the-pandora-papers/pandora-papers-reveal-offshore-holdings-of-ukrainian-president-and-his-inner-circleYou`re absolutely spot on, Ukraine was pretty much a gangster state pre invasion and Zelensky was a placeman president. However `cometh the hour, cometh the man` and he`s become a great leader and symbol to his people. Putin`s despicable war on them is horrific and the sooner he`s removed and this is over the better. I'm pretty sure part of the deal Ukraine are getting is that they've made Zelensky root out corruption and their Fascists. Many of their Nazis in the Azov Regiment were wiped out or surrendered during the battle at Melitopol. This war will/should be a turning point in their culture. OS.
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Post by Northy on Jan 30, 2023 12:20:57 GMT
I don't think that mainstream media talking about jet fighters so soon after tanks have been allocated is a coincidence or simple journalistic conjecture. NATO is preparing public opinion for it to happen. I'm not against the move at all, but I find it a bit disturbing how easy it is for general populations to be taken down a road where we will become accepting of each step that's been taken. My point is wider than the Ukraine war, as in my view, more should have been done to help Ukraine sooner, and we should do much more now. My main concern is how easy it is to make us comply with an overriding official message, and therefore, our loss of independent thinking. Oh absolutely we’re being drip fed information, I can guarantee that the tanks promised will be in action within weeks not months from certain countries, additionally the pre training they keep citing IMO has already taken place which includes Leopards/Challengers/Abraham’s and even F16’s, plus MIG’s being offered now but no doubt the country’s handing over their MIG’s will get F16’s in return, great news ofc but months too late. My sisters grandson is in the army and they have been training Ukrainians innthe UK for months, the tank crews for the challengers have recently arrived here as well.
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Post by questionable on Jan 30, 2023 13:57:28 GMT
Oh absolutely we’re being drip fed information, I can guarantee that the tanks promised will be in action within weeks not months from certain countries, additionally the pre training they keep citing IMO has already taken place which includes Leopards/Challengers/Abraham’s and even F16’s, plus MIG’s being offered now but no doubt the country’s handing over their MIG’s will get F16’s in return, great news ofc but months too late. My sisters grandson is in the army and they have been training Ukrainians innthe UK for months, the tank crews for the challengers have recently arrived here as well. My brother was a tanker and is now an advanced instructor so sure he’ll be involved some how, crazy how quick the Ukrainians pick things up technology wise
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Post by terryconroysmagic on Jan 30, 2023 18:47:13 GMT
I’ve come across multiple media over the last few days (admittedly with a pro Russian bias) stating that the Russians are starting to make gains and take territories in a couple of areas. They are saying they have changed their tactics and are using smaller formations backed by drones to advance and then dig in until reinforced.
It’s been fairly quiet on Ukrainian initiatives lately so very hard to get a true picture of what’s going on.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 31, 2023 0:16:00 GMT
I’ve come across multiple media over the last few days (admittedly with a pro Russian bias) stating that the Russians are starting to make gains and take territories in a couple of areas. They are saying they have changed their tactics and are using smaller formations backed by drones to advance and then dig in until reinforced. It’s been fairly quiet on Ukrainian initiatives lately so very hard to get a true picture of what’s going on. From what I can gather they’ve made small gains in the east. Bakhmut could still fall any time but for now it seems just about fine. And anything reported in the south seems a bit of fiction by Russian Telegram? But as you say hard to pick out the truth.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 31, 2023 6:34:17 GMT
I see it kinda like a spectrum from "Russia occupied Ukraine and gets to rape, torture and murder anyone who wants to be free" versus "Ukraine is fully liberated and its people get to be free and safe". And I don't think any one weapon jumps us 100% from one side to the other. Tanks just push in the right direction. Just like how HIMARS, Gepards etc freed most of east Kharkiv oblast and Kherson north of the river. Something like half a million innocent Ukrainians are now free from the fascist jackboot. Russian invaders tear off fingernails, they slice and shred innocent people's flesh and skin and they rape children. Then Putin gives their unit an award for it. Tanks save more innocents. Ukraine couldn't run 300 NATO tanks now, but it can start with a few dozen. Makes sense to me. I'll take your word for it on the Military assessment but that narrative is a change, at least on this MB, that the Leopards would be a game changer, War is over. You've edited my post where I posed that very question if the Leopards didn't remove Russia or even worse I went on to say if Stalemate what would be the next escalation from NATO (as let's stop pretending its not NATO) and if the Leopards were decisive what escalation could Putin make, the answer is obvious People (including me!) are definitely excited and happy to see tanks go to Ukraine. I don't want to give the impression that I think they'll win the war, just that they'll save Ukrainian lives and should mean that less Ukrainian land will be under the jackboot this year. The way I see it is that saying no to tanks now would make as much sense as going back to 1939 and telling a factory "don't bother with that load of Spitfires, they won't win the war on their own". It looks to me like the Ukrainian army is in transition. It's set up for Soviet equipment so use that first IMO. 200 Leopards at the border tomorrow wouldn't do anything, but in 6 months they might. I think the West is has a big aim of helping Ukraine to be free, because if Putin is allowed to conquer then countries will rush for nukes and the risk of nuclear war shoots sky high. A lot of other considerations can probably explain why the West is doing what it's doing, if too slowly for my tastes.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 31, 2023 7:00:23 GMT
I’ve come across multiple media over the last few days (admittedly with a pro Russian bias) stating that the Russians are starting to make gains and take territories in a couple of areas. They are saying they have changed their tactics and are using smaller formations backed by drones to advance and then dig in until reinforced. It’s been fairly quiet on Ukrainian initiatives lately so very hard to get a true picture of what’s going on. Putin looks like he's on the cusp of a propaganda victory in Bakhmut to me. Those I trust report loads of facts but are clueless about the real situation. Russia losing 80+ tanks this month, and Russian troops reaching Blahodatne village are both facts, but they don't tell us about losses or what forces are left. I think that Ukraine's strategy is to repeat 2022: 1. It will look very rough as Russia attacks with its huge wave of September/October mobiks. 2. Ukraine will fall back a bit as it "digests" and exhausts Russian forces. Then counterattack with fresh units. Some types of tanks haven't yet been seen on the front & my Ukrainian language buddy says the army is still turning away unexperienced volunteers. I think Ukraine must still have reserves.
Loads could go wrong though. Russia has been changing tactics like you say and their Lancet drones have been nasty against Ukrainian howitzers. The battles could go so badly that Ukraine might have to throw in everything just to hold on.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 31, 2023 7:34:00 GMT
Here's a big picture update from Jon Parshall, via Facebook. [snip] End-of-Jan update that I think goes with Jon's points. Any idiotic bits are my fault, I'm just trying to interpret the experts. Here are losses shown on photos and videos during Jan 2023. Tanks: Russia lost 82, Ukraine lost 28. Ukraine probably needs to beat 3-1 ratio for a major win this year so... not great. They captured some, but those are probably too broken. Infantry/Armoured Fighting Vehicles: Russia lost 137, Ukraine lost 38. Probably ok because Russia is losing more modern vehicles, Ukraine is losing older ones. Self-propelled artillery: Russia lost 28, Ukraine lost 11. Awful. Russian Lancet drones are hunting them down and Ukraine can't afford to lose at this ratio or rate, unless new supplies are announced soon. APCs/armoured mobility vehicles: Russia lost 42, Ukraine lost 46. This doesn't really matter IMO. Things like armoured hummvees and Ukraine gets 100+ of these per month. Summary scoreboard and future:Ukraine needs more mobile guns and anti-drone defence, the losses this month sucked. For fighting vehicles Ukraine should be getting huge upgrades while Russia's downgrading as they have more units with BMP-1s from the '60s.
Russia could absorb these losses for years but everyone expects harder fighting and faster losses before the summer. Ukraine probably needs better ratios in tank and self-propelled artillery losses if it wants big wins this year.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jan 31, 2023 17:08:24 GMT
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Post by milton58 on Jan 31, 2023 17:50:16 GMT
not having that thought America was only giving them raptors
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Post by musik on Jan 31, 2023 18:37:03 GMT
On the Sweden News atm:
A desinformation attack globally against Sweden. A very dangerous situation, according to the Prime Minister, and all the political parties held a meeting this evening.
🙄
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Post by wannabee on Jan 31, 2023 20:04:23 GMT
I'll take your word for it on the Military assessment but that narrative is a change, at least on this MB, that the Leopards would be a game changer, War is over. You've edited my post where I posed that very question if the Leopards didn't remove Russia or even worse I went on to say if Stalemate what would be the next escalation from NATO (as let's stop pretending its not NATO) and if the Leopards were decisive what escalation could Putin make, the answer is obvious People (including me!) are definitely excited and happy to see tanks go to Ukraine. I don't want to give the impression that I think they'll win the war, just that they'll save Ukrainian lives and should mean that less Ukrainian land will be under the jackboot this year. The way I see it is that saying no to tanks now would make as much sense as going back to 1939 and telling a factory "don't bother with that load of Spitfires, they won't win the war on their own". It looks to me like the Ukrainian army is in transition. It's set up for Soviet equipment so use that first IMO. 200 Leopards at the border tomorrow wouldn't do anything, but in 6 months they might. I think the West is has a big aim of helping Ukraine to be free, because if Putin is allowed to conquer then countries will rush for nukes and the risk of nuclear war shoots sky high. A lot of other considerations can probably explain why the West is doing what it's doing, if too slowly for my tastes. I agree with what you say especially about saving Ukrainian lives I think what I'm trying to say is best summed up by the exchange between questionable and RichieBarker and Questionable at the top of the page There is no doubt now, if there ever was, that NATO is conducting a Proxy War in Ukraine (a Non NATO Country) Very similar to Yemen and indeed Syria I am not saying this is a bad thing for a whole number of reasons but I am concerned about lack of oversight Convension has been established that the Government consult Parliament before committing to Miltary Action. Cameron was defeated on a commons vote to take Military Action against Syria in 2013 You could argue this involved at least RAF Personnel in such an Action The impression given by MSM and certain posters on this MB was that the Leopard Tanks would change the course of the conflict and aggressive fingers were being pointed at Germany for exercising caution. The ink was hardly dry on the Tanks and already talk is about F16s. France has already broken ranks by "not ruling it out" US, UK and Germany have said no, but you know that debate will continue What is the end game? Will NATO do ANYTHING to ensure Ukraine victory and does it end at land border or include Crimea? Have NATO considered its response if Russia uses Neuclear Weapons The Budapests Memorandum under which Ukraine gave up Nuclear Weapons for US and UK protection was conveniently overlooked All Wars ultimately end in Peace Talks What are the conditions for Ukraine/Nato to have peace talks (why bother if Ukraine has regained its land excepting Crimea perhaps) Would Putin even enter Peace Talks if that were the situation There are too many unanswered questions as to where this whole shit show ends but I could see Ukraine ending up as a complete wasteland like Yemen and Syria
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 31, 2023 21:15:28 GMT
Russia is funny
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