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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2022 17:14:12 GMT
2 Brits fighting for Ukraine and captured by the Russian army have been sentenced to death....where does lead us? Every day.. I think that Russia and this war can't get any worse, but every day it really does! Yesterday it was Russia trying to exploit the west and the world by bargaining with the wheat exports that belong to Ukraine... Today they sentence 3 fighters to death 2 from the uk, I do wonder wether they will try to use this as another bargaining tool to lift sanctions?! Undoubtedly they will be used as Pawns in the game Whether they were living in Ukraine since 2018 as their families claim or they followed Liz Truss's ill advised backing to go and fight in Ukraine makes little difference They will almost certainly be classed under International definition as Irregular Combatants, can be tried as such and are not protected by the Geneva Convention As the West Generally has more regard for its Citizens life, no matter how recklessly or stupidly they behave than Russia Putin will extract a heavy price I doubt very much they are in any imminent danger of execution, they are too valuable alive This may turn into another Zaghari Ratcliffe situation but rather than Boris's careless words it will be Liz Truss's foolish words that will be used in the Propaganda War One of them joined the Ukrainian Marines and I'm pretty sure is a Ukrainian citizen too. He's nothing but a normal soldier.
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Post by wannabee on Jun 9, 2022 17:28:03 GMT
Undoubtedly they will be used as Pawns in the game Whether they were living in Ukraine since 2018 as their families claim or they followed Liz Truss's ill advised backing to go and fight in Ukraine makes little difference They will almost certainly be classed under International definition as Irregular Combatants, can be tried as such and are not protected by the Geneva Convention As the West Generally has more regard for its Citizens life, no matter how recklessly or stupidly they behave than Russia Putin will extract a heavy price I doubt very much they are in any imminent danger of execution, they are too valuable alive This may turn into another Zaghari Ratcliffe situation but rather than Boris's careless words it will be Liz Truss's foolish words that will be used in the Propaganda War One of them joined the Ukrainian Marines and I'm pretty sure is a Ukrainian citizen too. He's nothing but a normal soldier. Whether they are or not (personally I have my doubts, but will be happy to be proved wrong) The Spin/Lies from Russia will be they are. One man's Visiting Family is anothers Training Journalists and possession is 9/10ths of The Law To pile on the clichés Truth is the first casualty etc
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Jun 9, 2022 17:44:11 GMT
Aslin was employed and under the command of the Ukrainian army. That's not 'irregular', even if he was English (he has dual-nationality).
I'm not sure about Pinnock but it seems to be he trained the Ukrainian army. I'm not sure if he is officially employed by them.
Given Russia does not have the death penalty (has a suspension on their death penalty law and have done for nearly 3 decades) I'm not sure how this proxy court can administer the sentence, given the Russians recognise the region as their own? It's a clear violation of international law as well as their own, not that they care.
The response from the government has been poor.
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 9, 2022 17:52:49 GMT
Aslin was employed and under the command of the Ukrainian army. That's not 'irregular', even if he was English (he has dual-nationality). I'm not sure about Pinnock but it seems to be he trained the Ukrainian army. I'm not sure if he is officially employed by them. Given Russia does not have the death penalty (has a suspension on their death penalty law and have done for nearly 3 decades) I'm not sure how this proxy court can administer the sentence, given the Russians recognise the region as their own? It's a clear violation of international law as well as their own, not that they care. The response from the government has been poor. What response would you like to see from the government?
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jun 9, 2022 17:53:58 GMT
Aslin was employed and under the command of the Ukrainian army. That's not 'irregular', even if he was English (he has dual-nationality). I'm not sure about Pinnock but it seems to be he trained the Ukrainian army. I'm not sure if he is officially employed by them. Given Russia does not have the death penalty (has a suspension on their death penalty law and have done for nearly 3 decades) I'm not sure how this proxy court can administer the sentence, given the Russians recognise the region as their own? It's a clear violation of international law as well as their own, not that they care. The response from the government has been poor. I think Russia recognises them as 'independent' (yeah right) - therefore the point - they can pass the death sentence while Russia cannot. That said they're probably not much use dead (other than as a deterrent to other foreign fighters). "However if you decline go send those long range missiles to Ukraine comrade Boris - then we'll see what we can do to put pressure on our friends in Donbas to commute the sentences"
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2022 17:59:46 GMT
One of them joined the Ukrainian Marines and I'm pretty sure is a Ukrainian citizen too. He's nothing but a normal soldier. Whether they are or not (personally I have my doubts, but will be happy to be proved wrong) The Spin/Lies from Russia will be they are. One man's Visiting Family is anothers Training Journalists and possession is 9/10ths of The Law To pile on the clichés Truth is the first casualty etc One of them definitely is. I don’t know about the other two. He was/is a Ukrainian marine.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2022 18:10:19 GMT
Both the Brits are Ukrainian marines
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Post by butlerstbob on Jun 9, 2022 18:16:07 GMT
Let's be honest...they are using the fact that they are British as some sort of statement if you like... And thats the reason they have issued the death penalty! I don't recall any Ukranion born captured milatary getting the same sentence! It's typical Russia being cunts! Also setting them up as bargaining chips against sanctions in the coming days.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 9, 2022 18:17:59 GMT
Aslin was employed and under the command of the Ukrainian army. That's not 'irregular', even if he was English (he has dual-nationality). I'm not sure about Pinnock but it seems to be he trained the Ukrainian army. I'm not sure if he is officially employed by them. Given Russia does not have the death penalty (has a suspension on their death penalty law and have done for nearly 3 decades) I'm not sure how this proxy court can administer the sentence, given the Russians recognise the region as their own? It's a clear violation of international law as well as their own, not that they care. The response from the government has been poor. I think Russia recognises them as 'independent' (yeah right) - therefore the point - they can pass the death sentence while Russia cannot. That said they're probably not much use dead (other than as a deterrent to other foreign fighters). "However if you decline go send those long range missiles to Ukraine comrade Boris - then we'll see what we can do to put pressure on our friends in Donbas to commute the sentences" And we should reply pull the trigger than mother fuckers And we will send sufficient big guns and ammunition to blast you back over the border and take your sycophants with you or we’ll see them in the hauge
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Jun 9, 2022 18:29:37 GMT
I think Russia recognises them as 'independent' (yeah right) - therefore the point - they can pass the death sentence while Russia cannot. That said they're probably not much use dead (other than as a deterrent to other foreign fighters). "However if you decline go send those long range missiles to Ukraine comrade Boris - then we'll see what we can do to put pressure on our friends in Donbas to commute the sentences" And we should reply pull the trigger than mother fuckers And we will send sufficient big guns and ammunition to blast you back over the border and take your sycophants with you or we’ll see them in the hauge 'Oh dear - they slipped in the shower - we did what we could"
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 9, 2022 18:31:16 GMT
And we should reply pull the trigger than mother fuckers And we will send sufficient big guns and ammunition to blast you back over the border and take your sycophants with you or we’ll see them in the hauge 'Oh dear - they slipped in the shower - we did what we could" How inconvenient we send the guns and ammo anyway They should of given them shower mats
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Post by andystokey on Jun 9, 2022 21:46:24 GMT
Both the Brits are Ukrainian marines Legally the Geneva convention makes no distinction on nationality. If they are legitimately wearing the uniform of any nation state with the knowledge and backing of that state they are protected. Their nationality is irrelevant.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2022 22:19:22 GMT
Both the Brits are Ukrainian marines Legally the Geneva convention makes no distinction on nationality. If they are legitimately wearing the uniform of any nation state with the knowledge and backing of that state they are protected. Their nationality is irrelevant. Yup
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 9, 2022 22:55:59 GMT
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Post by wannabee on Jun 9, 2022 23:27:53 GMT
People are debating this like its being played out by good old British Chaps under the Queensbury/Geneva Convention Rules I mean who could ever have thought the Ukrainian War Crime Trials of captured Russian Soldiers (rightfully convicted) carried on News Media throughout the World would ever have a negative response from Russia FFS Putin is a later day lunatic who is comparing himself to Peter the Great www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/09/reclaiming-land-russia-like-peter-great-says-vladimir-putin/I have no doubt these two British Soldiers (whatever their technical military status under International law) when they were captured/surrendered had no doubt they were in deep shit given the Propaganda Bonanza opportunity it presented to Putin I believe there is another captured Brit Andrew Hill (military status unknown) who's impending Show Trial will further continue this Charade and put further pressure on UK Government These guys no matter how well intentioned are merely Pawns as is Zelensky in the Realpolitik solution whatever it may be decided by people way above their Pay Grade
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 10, 2022 5:58:51 GMT
A real sign of how shit the rouble is: major Russian bank will charge people for having foreign currency. E.g. if a Russian has £10k, they have to pay the bank £1k/year to keep it. But if you buy roubles instead the charge goes away. Oh and you can't withdraw all the money either. Yeah, totally what a strong economy with a legit currency would do.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 10, 2022 6:35:38 GMT
People are debating this like its being played out by good old British Chaps under the Queensbury/Geneva Convention Rules I mean who could ever have thought the Ukrainian War Crime Trials of captured Russian Soldiers (rightfully convicted) carried on News Media throughout the World would ever have a negative response from Russia FFS Putin is a later day lunatic who is comparing himself to Peter the Great www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/09/reclaiming-land-russia-like-peter-great-says-vladimir-putin/I have no doubt these two British Soldiers (whatever their technical military status under International law) when they were captured/surrendered had no doubt they were in deep shit given the Propaganda Bonanza opportunity it presented to Putin I believe there is another captured Brit Andrew Hill (military status unknown) who's impending Show Trial will further continue this Charade and put further pressure on UK Government These guys no matter how well intentioned are merely Pawns as is Zelensky in the Realpolitik solution whatever it may be decided by people way above their Pay Grade I’m not. I just wish you’d call them what they - legitimate Ukrainian armed service members. Not doing that imo is playing into the idea that they may have a point. And I don’t think you are doing that but there can imo be no grey areas with these fuckers.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 10, 2022 14:45:34 GMT
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 11, 2022 3:55:06 GMT
5000-6000 shells a day would mean the Russians have failed to hunt all of Ukraine's artillery, which is kinda good news? But it shows our factories should be running full tilt and we should be rushing them more guns and shells. I think the best any of us can do is to get money and weapons to the Ukrainian military. If you want to donate directly, you can do that here, but I can't because of my job so I just donated again to the DEC humanitarian appeal. You can also sponsor a Ukrainian artillery shell for $200. The unit will write whatever message you want on the shell and send you a photo before they fire it at the Russians
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 11, 2022 3:59:27 GMT
Based on this Canadian contract, it's up to $5000 for a 155 mm artillery shell. So 5-6000 shells a day is less than $10 billion a year. Seems expensive, but we can afford that for such a good cause surely?
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Post by somersetstokie on Jun 11, 2022 8:51:06 GMT
5000-6000 shells a day would mean the Russians have failed to hunt all of Ukraine's artillery, which is kinda good news? But it shows our factories should be running full tilt and we should be rushing them more guns and shells. I think the best any of us can do is to get money and weapons to the Ukrainian military. If you want to donate directly, you can do that here, but I can't because of my job so I just donated again to the DEC humanitarian appeal. You can also sponsor a Ukrainian artillery shell for $200. The unit will write whatever message you want on the shell and send you a photo before they fire it at the Russians Sounds very much like the WWII local "Buy a Spitfire" fund raising campaigns that were run in towns and villages across England. You too can contribute to the War effort!
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 11, 2022 15:37:11 GMT
5000-6000 shells a day would mean the Russians have failed to hunt all of Ukraine's artillery, which is kinda good news? But it shows our factories should be running full tilt and we should be rushing them more guns and shells. I think the best any of us can do is to get money and weapons to the Ukrainian military. If you want to donate directly, you can do that here, but I can't because of my job so I just donated again to the DEC humanitarian appeal. You can also sponsor a Ukrainian artillery shell for $200. The unit will write whatever message you want on the shell and send you a photo before they fire it at the Russians Sounds very much like the WWII local "Buy a Spitfire" fund raising campaigns that were run in towns and villages across England. You too can contribute to the War effort! You can tell we're in the modern age since the "buy a spitfire" has already been replaced with " buy a Bayraktar drone"!
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 12, 2022 9:09:55 GMT
Anyone else noticed the shift in tone from the media? The outlook has suddenly become rather bleak instead of bullish about Ukraine's chances of defeating Russia.......
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Post by questionable on Jun 12, 2022 9:44:53 GMT
Anyone else noticed the shift in tone from the media? The outlook has suddenly become rather bleak instead of bullish about Ukraine's chances of defeating Russia....... What I have noticed is there’s always a lull followed by some better news, albeit the better news seems less frequent now. It’s a war of nutrition now and whoever lasts the pace is going to come out on top. The sanctions for now don’t seem to be working short term, I was talking to a guy yesterday and in his kind of business the Ukrainian grain situation is causing major problems here in the UK, Putin knew exactly we’re dependent on all sorts of products and he seems to holding all the aces, insanely we’ve sleep walked into his plans.
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Post by foster on Jun 12, 2022 14:56:32 GMT
Anyone else noticed the shift in tone from the media? The outlook has suddenly become rather bleak instead of bullish about Ukraine's chances of defeating Russia....... What I have noticed is there’s always a lull followed by some better news, albeit the better news seems less frequent now. It’s a war of nutrition now and whoever lasts the pace is going to come out on top. The sanctions for now don’t seem to be working short term, I was talking to a guy yesterday and in his kind of business the Ukrainian grain situation is causing major problems here in the UK, Putin knew exactly we’re dependent on all sorts of products and he seems to holding all the aces, insanely we’ve sleep walked into his plans. Spoke to a Russian neighbour yesterday and she told me that aside from not being able to travel, her family hadn't felt anything from the sanctions in Russia. The supporting countries need to step up their provision of weapons and support for Ukraine. Its becoming stale and Russia seem to be faring better now. It sounds like the last brave Ukrainians are being let down in their hour of need.
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Post by alsagerstokie on Jun 12, 2022 16:04:54 GMT
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61777224Unfortunately my friend from work has lost her son this weekend. I cant imagine what she and the family are going through.
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Post by musik on Jun 12, 2022 17:29:33 GMT
Is it true the Putin po travels by plane? For analysis I presume.
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Post by noustie on Jun 12, 2022 20:18:27 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 13, 2022 0:50:43 GMT
therein lies the problem.....
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 13, 2022 0:57:37 GMT
aljazeera remain the most balanced "mainstream" news outlet for news on the conflict.........
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