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Post by Gawa on Nov 20, 2024 18:44:35 GMT
At lastly I do like you as a person mtrstudent and I don't think you're a bad person or a bad guy. Heck you're pursuing the majority western position here. If anyone comes off badly in these conversations it me. But I don't take my stance to make me look a beacon of light.
As I've got older I have just tuned out from the China and Russia phobia which gets broadcast to us.
I see life for working people in the west getting worse with each passing year as technology, automation and AI which should improve all our lives gets more advanced year on year.
I see recession after recession, rising food price after food price, worse health care for working class people, less home ownership, rising energy price after rising energy price. While at the same time reading year on year that the top 100 richest peoples wealth have grown. Reading about men with vanity projects to Mars when working people have a worser quality of life than their parents.
The russians aren't to blame for that. China isn't to blame for that. Aliens aren't to blame for that.
The Bourgeoisie are to blame for that as they're the ones whose quality of life and wealth has increased by great magnitude while the rest of us get fed excuse after excuse for getting worse off.
We as workers need to come together and unite together. I'm done with blindly following neoliberals and neoconservatives while the rest of us get shafted. The great plague on our livelihoods is not due to Russia or any other country. Its due to the wealthy billionaires who will gladly march us off to a foreign country and die for their greed. Fuck them.
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 20, 2024 18:51:55 GMT
Here's a post from a russian Telegram channel in which they show a video of them shooting unarmed Ukrainians.
"The crests[slur for Ukrainians] were very happy about our two prisoners in Kupyansk, and they didn’t keep us waiting long for a response.
Take your pieces of shit back later.
Kiss😎😎😎"
The channel is rustroyka1945 on Telegram and the video is in post 19019.
Gawa. How do you feel about the execution of unarmed, surrendered Ukrainians?
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Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 20, 2024 19:04:07 GMT
If anything maybe Putin needs to escalate further for the sake of man kind because it seems nothing deters some of our leaders. Probably because they never face the consequences of their actions. See I think *here* we're following the same logic. Putin should see consequences. And when he does, he backs down like with the Black Sea Grain Initiative. Then the russian invasions will stop. Moldova, Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine and Ukraine again. I want the wars to stop. On a Russia-Ukraine thread, is it important to raise the horrendous treatment of native Americans, but not the Holodomor russian genocide of Ukrainians or the russian ethnic cleansing of Crimean Tatar? Or the punishments for speaking Ukrainian or showing Ukrainian symbols in occupied Ukraine today? Not only that, is it important to brush past and downplay the slaughter of tens of thousands of innocent Ukrainians in Mariupol and spread conspiracy theories aimed to deny the rounding up, torture and slaughter of civilians in Bucha. Despite video, satellite imagery and witness statements. Can you see why I'm struggling to make these thoughts join up? Gawa is providing context that I do think is important and I do share many of his views about imperialism and the hypocrisy of the West. You don't have to go back very far to the height of the Chechen conflict around 2000 and look at the war crimes Russia committed that were largely ignored by the West. In fact Tony Blair after the Battle of Grozny praised Putin as a world leader declaring he had a "focused view of what he wants to achieve in Russia" Fast forward a few years and Putin was shaking hands with the Queen and enjoying a state banquet at tax payers expense. I think it's more than possible to condemn all acts of terror and crimes of war, but acknowledge that Western foreign policy is at best muddled, and at worst so deeply cynical that it chooses who it classes as the victims of conflict and who are necessary collateral damage....... |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 20, 2024 19:14:35 GMT
Here's a post from a russian Telegram channel in which they show a video of them shooting unarmed Ukrainians. "The crests[slur for Ukrainians] were very happy about our two prisoners in Kupyansk, and they didn’t keep us waiting long for a response. Take your pieces of shit back later. Kiss😎😎😎" The channel is rustroyka1945 on Telegram and the video is in post 19019. Gawa. How do you feel about the execution of unarmed, surrendered Ukrainians? I don't support it. Are we allowed to use telegram as a source now mtrstudent? I thought such a source would get shot down as "Russian propoganda" by you? Should I share some videos of the dead Palestine children today that the US funded the deaths of? Or should I share stories about the Palestine surgeon raped to death at the funding of US? But anyway tell me more about imperialism please from America. Maybe in another 100 years all of Africa will be white people speaking English and your descendants can lecture me on Russian imperialism from Africa too. |
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Post by hcstokie on Nov 20, 2024 19:24:17 GMT
In the attempt to find some common ground, do we all agree that Gawa and mtrstudent would make a perfect old married couple?
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Post by spitthedog on Nov 20, 2024 19:49:04 GMT
Someone somewhere is making a lot of money out this war.
$1m per missile!....nice one.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Nov 20, 2024 20:17:51 GMT
In the attempt to find some common ground, do we all agree that Gawa and mtrstudent would make a perfect old married couple? 'For fuck sake honey, you used all our savings from defence stocks to buy property in china, again!' Sorry guys |
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Post by shakermaker on Nov 20, 2024 20:18:12 GMT
Someone somewhere is making a lot of money out this war. $1m per missile!....nice one. The Ukrainians haven’t paid one penny for these missiles… but no doubt if Ukraine do win this war, the rest of the world will call in favours from Mr Zelenskyy. You don’t get something for nothing in this world. |
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Post by rickyfullerbeer on Nov 20, 2024 20:41:36 GMT
Someone somewhere is making a lot of money out this war. $1m per missile!....nice one. It’s crass but it’s free money going long on LHM stock when these events/escalations occur involving US allies. I’m sure there are others as well, including BA. |
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 20, 2024 20:44:44 GMT
Someone somewhere is making a lot of money out this war. $1m per missile!....nice one. Sounds like an absolute bargain to me. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 20, 2024 22:21:06 GMT
The Financial Times says British-supplied Storm Shadows hit inside Russia. If you're worried about nuclear war - remember that the same propaganda that's screaming about esclation also says that Crimea is Russia. So Storm Shadows already hit "Russia" and this is just business as usual, no escalation. An interesting thread, echoing what you are saying here ... |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 20, 2024 22:41:11 GMT
The Financial Times says British-supplied Storm Shadows hit inside Russia. If you're worried about nuclear war - remember that the same propaganda that's screaming about esclation also says that Crimea is Russia. So Storm Shadows already hit "Russia" and this is just business as usual, no escalation. An interesting thread, echoing what you are saying here ... Well the part about Crimea by mtrstudent isn't necessarily right. According to the USAGM, an independant branch of the United States government. Most Crimeans are supportive of the referendum results from 2014 and also hold Russia in a more favourable view. Source- www.usagm.gov/2014/06/03/uk...crimeans-turning-to-russian-sources-for-news/According to the census of Crimea, the last Time there were more Ukranians than Russians living there was in 1850. Unfortunately facts like this are just propoganda nowadays and actually they all support the view of Zelensky instead, the president nobody from Crimea voted for. Source- en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Nov 21, 2024 1:21:43 GMT
An interesting thread, echoing what you are saying here ... Well the part about Crimea by mtrstudent isn't necessarily right. According to the USAGM, an independant branch of the United States government. Most Crimeans are supportive of the referendum results from 2014 and also hold Russia in a more favourable view. Source- www.usagm.gov/2014/06/03/uk...crimeans-turning-to-russian-sources-for-news/According to the census of Crimea, the last Time there were more Ukranians than Russians living there was in 1850. Unfortunately facts like this are just propoganda nowadays and actually they all support the view of Zelensky instead, the president nobody from Crimea voted for. Source- en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_CrimeaI was referring to the author of the thread's confidence about Putin not using nukes mate. Personally I have no absolutely idea, whether he's likely to or not and I'm having to rely on other people's opinions to formulste some sort of idea. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 6:43:05 GMT
In the attempt to find some common ground, do we all agree that Gawa and mtrstudent would make a perfect old married couple? I'd make a great wife. |
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Post by chigstoke on Nov 21, 2024 11:48:28 GMT
I read that Russia had supposedly launched non nuclear tipped ICBM’s into Ukraine. That would have required alerting the US so that it wasn’t mistaken for a nuclear launch. Though a western official has then also said it was a shorter range missile instead.
Dangerous times ahead, both from the standpoint of the fighting but also the varied reports of information going around.
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Post by Gawa on Nov 21, 2024 12:27:11 GMT
It's hilarious when you see the response and abuse Corbyn has been getting since his statement on the uk allowing missiles to strike deep in Russia.
Yet this man here gets none of it
And according to the establishment he is the "anti-establishment". Make of that what you will.
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Post by Gabrielzakuaniandjuliet on Nov 21, 2024 12:41:50 GMT
I read that Russia had supposedly launched non nuclear tipped ICBM’s into Ukraine. That would have required alerting the US so that it wasn’t mistaken for a nuclear launch. Though a western official has then also said it was a shorter range missile instead. Dangerous times ahead, both from the standpoint of the fighting but also the varied reports of information going around. That would explain the embassy closing |
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Post by lordb on Nov 21, 2024 13:36:09 GMT
An interesting thread, echoing what you are saying here ... Well the part about Crimea by mtrstudent isn't necessarily right. According to the USAGM, an independant branch of the United States government. Most Crimeans are supportive of the referendum results from 2014 and also hold Russia in a more favourable view. Source- www.usagm.gov/2014/06/03/uk...crimeans-turning-to-russian-sources-for-news/According to the census of Crimea, the last Time there were more Ukranians than Russians living there was in 1850. Unfortunately facts like this are just propoganda nowadays and actually they all support the view of Zelensky instead, the president nobody from Crimea voted for. Source- en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_CrimeaYou've missed the point The point is Russia can't say these missiles hitting Russia is a new development and claim Crimea is Russia as the missiles have been hitting there already It's defacto accepting Crimea is in dispute |
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Post by Gawa on Nov 21, 2024 13:55:07 GMT
Well the part about Crimea by mtrstudent isn't necessarily right. According to the USAGM, an independant branch of the United States government. Most Crimeans are supportive of the referendum results from 2014 and also hold Russia in a more favourable view. Source- www.usagm.gov/2014/06/03/uk...crimeans-turning-to-russian-sources-for-news/According to the census of Crimea, the last Time there were more Ukranians than Russians living there was in 1850. Unfortunately facts like this are just propoganda nowadays and actually they all support the view of Zelensky instead, the president nobody from Crimea voted for. Source- en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_CrimeaYou've missed the point The point is Russia can't say these missiles hitting Russia is a new development and claim Crimea is Russia as the missiles have been hitting there already It's defacto accepting Crimea is in dispute Of course it's disputed, I don't deny that. What I deny is people who just recite Panama Paper tax dodger Zelensky lines and believe that's what all Ukranians think. If you're incapable of recognising the very simple division and regional differences of opinion in Ukraine then you really don't understand this conflict at all. If you mention the crimea referendum it's "propoganda" If you mention the historical voting differences its "propoganda" If you reference the military in crimea deciding to flock to Russian military its "propoganda" If you mention the US government even showing that most crimeans support the referendum result it's "propoganda" Source on defectors before ultimately the usual "propoganda" line comes out. www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26713727 |
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 15:41:51 GMT
I read that Russia had supposedly launched non nuclear tipped ICBM’s into Ukraine. That would have required alerting the US so that it wasn’t mistaken for a nuclear launch. Though a western official has then also said it was a shorter range missile instead. Dangerous times ahead, both from the standpoint of the fighting but also the varied reports of information going around. Looks like a new weapon indeed, people don't seem sure of what it is. One of the experts I follow is FR Hoffman, he's a missile guy and said it was political signalling since it seems they don't have the tech to put proper conventional warheads on them. |
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Post by flea79 on Nov 21, 2024 15:54:22 GMT
I read that Russia had supposedly launched non nuclear tipped ICBM’s into Ukraine. That would have required alerting the US so that it wasn’t mistaken for a nuclear launch. Though a western official has then also said it was a shorter range missile instead. Dangerous times ahead, both from the standpoint of the fighting but also the varied reports of information going around. Looks like a new weapon indeed, people don't seem sure of what it is. One of the experts I follow is FR Hoffman, he's a missile guy and said it was political signalling since it seems they don't have the tech to put proper conventional warheads on them. its another worrying development but i guess if it was an icbm they must have had too tell everybody else what they were going to do or it might have been read as nuke being let off... never has an icbm been fired in anger before what a time to be alive! |
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 16:15:05 GMT
its another worrying development but i guess if it was an icbm they must have had too tell everybody else what they were going to do or it might have been read as nuke being let off... never has an icbm been fired in anger before what a time to be alive! Well apparently the yanks have the tech to know and they say it wasn't an ICBM. Do we trust them? 🤔 |
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Post by flea79 on Nov 21, 2024 16:16:22 GMT
its another worrying development but i guess if it was an icbm they must have had too tell everybody else what they were going to do or it might have been read as nuke being let off... never has an icbm been fired in anger before what a time to be alive! Well apparently the yanks have the tech to know and they say it wasn't an ICBM. Do we trust them? 🤔 i dunno do we trust any of them?, all we can see is what we are allowed to see by the media |
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Post by scfcno1fan on Nov 21, 2024 16:19:29 GMT
I read that Russia had supposedly launched non nuclear tipped ICBM’s into Ukraine. That would have required alerting the US so that it wasn’t mistaken for a nuclear launch. Though a western official has then also said it was a shorter range missile instead. Dangerous times ahead, both from the standpoint of the fighting but also the varied reports of information going around. Looks like a new weapon indeed, people don't seem sure of what it is. One of the experts I follow is FR Hoffman, he's a missile guy and said it was political signalling since it seems they don't have the tech to put proper conventional warheads on them. What would it be then? |
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 16:31:03 GMT
Norway and Denmark have been stepping up with their aid, about 0.5% of GDP for military aid. If Europe matched them then Russia would be squashed and Ukraine could negotiate a sustainable peace.
The UK has invested a bit in Ukrainian drones. Apparently it's just cheaper to build in Ukraine because they're fully in fight-to-survive mode. Less red tape and workers doing overtime etc.
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 16:53:05 GMT
Well apparently the yanks have the tech to know and they say it wasn't an ICBM. Do we trust them? 🤔 i dunno do we trust any of them?, all we can see is what we are allowed to see by the media The US government couldn't stop Ukrainians posting phone and CCTV footage & other info will leak too. So we should find out something? I have tracked claims to see who's more or less reliable. In late 2021 russian government officials said they weren't going to invade Ukraine, while western officials said Putin planned to. A simple test - who was reliable? After the first Patriot battery went to Kyiv, Russia said it destroyed it versus the US&Ukraine said there was minor damage to one part. Later, we saw Patriot shooting down missiles (if Russia was right, how did a destroyed battery do that?), then satellite images show the battery was still there (if Russia destroyed it, why is it there?), and some shrapnel damage was shown on a photo. Another test - who was reliable? Not saying this means they're always honest, but I think it's worth checking how trustworthy sources are. |
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Nov 21, 2024 16:59:46 GMT
Sorry who was it who thought firing Western weapons into Russia was a sensible decision?
How the fuck did such a reckless, dangerous act not even make it to Parliament.
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 17:14:43 GMT
Here's a quote from a journalist: "Russia deliberately gave the RS-26 a range /just/ inside the technical definition of an ICBM so that they could claim it didn't infringe the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty. It is effectively, however, an Intermediate-Range Ballistic Missile, or IRBN, banned by treaty." And from wiki: "Classifying ballistic missiles by range is done mostly for convenience. In principle there is very little difference between a low-performance ICBM and a high-performance IRBM, because decreasing payload mass can increase the range over the ICBM threshold." If it *is* that RS-26 then maybe on paper it's an ICBM but the real-world version is too heavy or russian engineers aren't good enough so it's an IRBM. Then you pick whichever one is better for your message and you're not technically lying either way? Not saying that's what happened at all. Just a possibility. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 17:16:04 GMT
Sorry who was it who thought firing Western weapons into Russia was a sensible decision? How the fuck did such a reckless, dangerous act not even make it to Parliament. What effect do you think this missile will have on where the eventual negotiations end up? And why do you think weapons to Ukraine is a good idea? Like what is it they do specifically that helps in your mind? I think we have different ideas on that because to me it's obvious that damaging the russian war machine is what will improve the negotiating position. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Nov 21, 2024 17:18:16 GMT
Here's one Ukrainian response to Russia's emotional support missile.
It doesn't seem like the missile did anything that doesn't happen anyway, except give NATO a chance to scan one of Russia's new weapons and work out its performance?
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