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Post by mrrine on May 17, 2022 12:16:36 GMT
We've set a precedent that will be hard to break. We've shown a willingness a few times that if an interested club waits long enough (towards the closing of the transfer window) we'll let Afobe go for a limited or no fee loan and we'll pay most or all of his wages. Which club would want to spend even a fairly small sum to sign him when they can have him for nothing for a whole year? Then they can have him on contract for nothing the season after but will have to convince him to take a major wage cut. Or he could retire with a truckload of cash in the bank. I would rather make him train with the U5's and force his hand to rip up the contract than have him help out Rowett's team to relieve a % of his wage burden. It disgusts me how weak we are in negotiations and as you rightly point out, everyone knows it. Rowett's comments particularly make me think we ought to deprive them for a year.
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Post by scfc75 on May 17, 2022 12:18:25 GMT
We've set a precedent that will be hard to break. We've shown a willingness a few times that if an interested club waits long enough (towards the closing of the transfer window) we'll let Afobe go for a limited or no fee loan and we'll pay most or all of his wages. Which club would want to spend even a fairly small sum to sign him when they can have him for nothing for a whole year? Then they can have him on contract for nothing the season after but will have to convince him to take a major wage cut. Or he could retire with a truckload of cash in the bank. Have we done that before? Genuine question as I have no idea, how were his previous loans structured?
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Post by tqstokie on May 17, 2022 12:18:47 GMT
Yes it was that simple high ball to him that he completely misjudged that the fans lost faith. It was the couldn't trap a bag of cement moment.
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Post by jokker on May 17, 2022 14:22:54 GMT
We've set a precedent that will be hard to break. We've shown a willingness a few times that if an interested club waits long enough (towards the closing of the transfer window) we'll let Afobe go for a limited or no fee loan and we'll pay most or all of his wages. Which club would want to spend even a fairly small sum to sign him when they can have him for nothing for a whole year? Then they can have him on contract for nothing the season after but will have to convince him to take a major wage cut. Or he could retire with a truckload of cash in the bank. Have we done that before? Genuine question as I have no idea, how were his previous loans structured? Whether every detail is correct is not for me to say but we've done variations on the theme with Etebo, N'diaye, Berahino, Imbula, Wimmer, Woods, and Afobe himself and possibly others.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 20:38:03 GMT
We've set a precedent that will be hard to break. We've shown a willingness a few times that if an interested club waits long enough (towards the closing of the transfer window) we'll let Afobe go for a limited or no fee loan and we'll pay most or all of his wages. Which club would want to spend even a fairly small sum to sign him when they can have him for nothing for a whole year? Then they can have him on contract for nothing the season after but will have to convince him to take a major wage cut. Or he could retire with a truckload of cash in the bank. I would rather make him train with the U5's and force his hand to rip up the contract than have him help out Rowett's team to relieve a % of his wage burden. It disgusts me how weak we are in negotiations and as you rightly point out, everyone knows it. Rowett's comments particularly make me think we ought to deprive them for a year. I doubt anything will force him to rip up his contract, that's the problem.
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Post by jokker on May 17, 2022 20:46:35 GMT
I would rather make him train with the U5's and force his hand to rip up the contract than have him help out Rowett's team to relieve a % of his wage burden. It disgusts me how weak we are in negotiations and as you rightly point out, everyone knows it. Rowett's comments particularly make me think we ought to deprive them for a year. I doubt anything will force him to rip up his contract, that's the problem. He could be paid off. We did that to some players earlier this season. Not a good sulotion, but it'd get him off our expenses.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 20:49:27 GMT
I doubt anything will force him to rip up his contract, that's the problem. He could be paid off. We did that to some players earlier this season. Not a good sulotion, but it'd get him off our expenses. True but surely were getting a loan fee for him and some wages paid which perhaps a better option unless some mug buys him. We could hopefully sell him with some kind of pay off
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Post by Squeekster on May 17, 2022 21:46:13 GMT
He could be paid off. We did that to some players earlier this season. Not a good sulotion, but it'd get him off our expenses. True but surely were getting a loan fee for him and some wages paid which perhaps a better option unless some mug buys him. We could hopefully sell him with some kind of pay off I'd wager we would still be losing money if we loaned him out again, if we came up with a settlement that suited both parties then so be it, that is if want to move him on.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 21:51:11 GMT
True but surely were getting a loan fee for him and some wages paid which perhaps a better option unless some mug buys him. We could hopefully sell him with some kind of pay off I'd wager we would still be losing money if we loaned him out again, if we came up with a settlement that suited both parties then so be it, that is if want to move him on. True but begrudge giving him a tidy pay off and him joining Millwall say on a free. No guarantee he'd go there of course. Depends on a loan fee and how much of his wages they'd pay on a loan I guess.
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Post by Squeekster on May 17, 2022 22:06:34 GMT
I'd wager we would still be losing money if we loaned him out again, if we came up with a settlement that suited both parties then so be it, that is if want to move him on. True but begrudge giving him a tidy pay off and him joining Millwall say on a free. No guarantee he'd go there of course. Depends on a loan fee and how much of his wages they'd pay on a loan I guess. I agree but then it free's up a spot in the squad and a wage for hopefully a player that wants to play for us.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 22:13:18 GMT
True but begrudge giving him a tidy pay off and him joining Millwall say on a free. No guarantee he'd go there of course. Depends on a loan fee and how much of his wages they'd pay on a loan I guess. I agree but then it free's up a spot in the squad and a wage for hopefully a player that wants to play for us. True...bit of a head scratcher. He's obviously not going to give up a year's salary or close to it and that could perhaps pay 2 players if the salary off the books. If only someone would buy the stupid arse but more chance of Vanessa Feltz starring in Baywatch
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2022 22:21:37 GMT
True but begrudge giving him a tidy pay off and him joining Millwall say on a free. No guarantee he'd go there of course. Depends on a loan fee and how much of his wages they'd pay on a loan I guess. I agree but then it free's up a spot in the squad and a wage for hopefully a player that wants to play for us. Not if you pay him off, unless he takes less than his full whack there would be no spare money
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Post by Squeekster on May 17, 2022 22:28:19 GMT
I agree but then it free's up a spot in the squad and a wage for hopefully a player that wants to play for us. Not if you pay him off, unless he takes less than his full whack there would be no spare money Yes it has to be a 2 way street, if not like some said above shove him in the under 5's for the season then let him resurrect his career after a year off!
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 22:34:11 GMT
Not if you pay him off, unless he takes less than his full whack there would be no spare money Yes it has to be a 2 way street, if not like some said above shove him in the under 5's for the season then let him resurrect his career after a year off! And we pay him full salary? We gain mothing from that
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Post by lordb on May 17, 2022 22:34:21 GMT
Not if you pay him off, unless he takes less than his full whack there would be no spare money Yes it has to be a 2 way street, if not like some said above shove him in the under 5's for the season then let him resurrect his career after a year off! Just loan him out again, keep him away please
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 22:42:13 GMT
Wouldn't we need to sell for approx £3 million for the last year of his contract to break even for ffp purposes?
If so that's not going to happen so best we can do is another loan. Same goes for Etebo although we would only need about £1.5 mil for him?
Just doesn't sit right with me that it's better financially to keep hold of a player than to sell him at a loss.
That's how I understand it. Is that wrong?
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Post by Squeekster on May 17, 2022 22:42:53 GMT
Yes it has to be a 2 way street, if not like some said above shove him in the under 5's for the season then let him resurrect his career after a year off! And we pay him full salary? We gain from that we gain nothing either way really.
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Post by Deleted on May 17, 2022 22:46:46 GMT
And we pay him full salary? We gain from that we gain nothing either way really. Yep he wins either way as draws a nice wedge . At least he'll be the last of the Rowett brigade out the door next year.
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Post by huuuuuth on May 18, 2022 11:34:31 GMT
Another to add to the list of “complete disaster” signings He’d never really looked any good in the times I’d seen him play, before we signed him, so to spunk £12 million on him was just madness.
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Post by jokker on May 18, 2022 17:07:07 GMT
Another to add to the list of “complete disaster” signings He’d never really looked any good in the times I’d seen him play, before we signed him, so to spunk £12 million on him was just madness. He was decent initially. Then Stoke sacked the manager who signed him and like a lot of Rowett's signings, he lost his way and never found the way back. He had zero respect for Nathan Jones and showed it on the pitch. Any sideline instructions were received with a shrug and nothing changed. Yet Jones kept playing him. Then next season he was booed in the first game, and that really was the point of no return.
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Post by mrrine on May 18, 2022 17:51:16 GMT
I would rather make him train with the U5's and force his hand to rip up the contract than have him help out Rowett's team to relieve a % of his wage burden. It disgusts me how weak we are in negotiations and as you rightly point out, everyone knows it. Rowett's comments particularly make me think we ought to deprive them for a year. I doubt anything will force him to rip up his contract, that's the problem Half the problem is the message it puts out to other teams - I watched the Sunderland show where they were throwing money at Will Grigg - They said it themselves, it set a precedent for people thinking they were weak. In this instance, it sets a precedent for other players (arguably he's one of very very many that've successfully weaselled away at our expense) Why should Milwall and specifically GR benefit? " I want to see some punishment!"
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Post by tcdobinghoff on May 18, 2022 18:05:01 GMT
Obviously his Stoke career has not been a success but has he actually refused to play or disrespected the club ? We had our pants pulled down on several transfers when we were relegated but the guy had scored 28 goals for Wolves in the Championship in 62 games and he has scored 13 goals for Millwall last season. Cost too much for sure but he can score goals.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 18:09:23 GMT
Obviously his Stoke career has not been a success but has he actually refused to play or disrespected the club ? We had our pants pulled down on several transfers when we were relegated but the guy had scored 28 goals for Wolves in the Championship in 62 games and he has scored 13 goals for Millwall last season. Cost too much for sure but he can score goals. To be be fair why would he disrespect the club or refuse to play? The club has been good to him in general. Because other managers after Rowett don't want him is the way it goes in football. Be good for all concerned it we could sell him but I'd imagine he isn't going to give up his nice contract so isn't going to ruffle any feathers
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Post by spitthedog on May 18, 2022 18:28:54 GMT
His goal return (12 in 38) has been on a par with Jacob Brown's (13 in 45) this season.
So are they both crap forwards or both decent?
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Post by questionable on May 18, 2022 18:33:44 GMT
If we loan him out again we get maybe half his wage back. Maybe the better option is to take another look at him for six months? Low risk. MON gave him a shot when he first came in and very quickly got rid. This has always baffled me MON has a look then gets rid but the players he prefers are often worse. Clueless manager
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Post by tcdobinghoff on May 18, 2022 18:36:36 GMT
Obviously his Stoke career has not been a success but has he actually refused to play or disrespected the club ? We had our pants pulled down on several transfers when we were relegated but the guy had scored 28 goals for Wolves in the Championship in 62 games and he has scored 13 goals for Millwall last season. Cost too much for sure but he can score goals. To be be fair why would he disrespect the club or refuse to play? The club has been good to him in general. Because other managers after Rowett don't want him is the way it goes in football. Be good for all concerned it we could sell him but I'd imagine he isn't going to give up his nice contract so isn't going to ruffle any feathers It’s frustrating that we need a goalscorer , we have one with a good track record on the books and don’t use him. I understand the financial needs to move our most expensive investments on but he is only one of several players that have underperformed once we have signed them or whose relationship with the club seems to have soured. Did we only sign bad-eggs or has there been something about our club that has caused this. If only we had a definitive answer.
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Post by Pugsley on May 18, 2022 18:40:28 GMT
Not if you pay him off, unless he takes less than his full whack there would be no spare money Yes it has to be a 2 way street, if not like some said above shove him in the under 5's for the season then let him resurrect his career after a year off! Fans come out with this kind of stuff and I get it but the reality is that having a senior pro train and play with the reserves or whatever is a complete nonsense. Suck the mop and get rid. We don't want players around the squad moaning and bringing others down.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 18:42:07 GMT
To be be fair why would he disrespect the club or refuse to play? The club has been good to him in general. Because other managers after Rowett don't want him is the way it goes in football. Be good for all concerned it we could sell him but I'd imagine he isn't going to give up his nice contract so isn't going to ruffle any feathers It’s frustrating that we need a goalscorer , we have one with a good track record on the books and don’t use him. I understand the financial needs to move our most expensive investments on but he is only one of several players that have underperformed once we have signed them or whose relationship with the club seems to have soured. Did we only sign bad-eggs or has there been something about our club that has caused this. If only we had a definitive answer. See your point totally but if not able to shift him really don't know what I would do if in MON's shoes. Don't think for one second he is the answer but should we be subsiding say Millwall again? We obviously don't know what the loan fee is and how much they are paying from his salary ...possibly enough to cover another striker/player you would guess.Tricky one
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Post by Gods on May 18, 2022 18:44:11 GMT
His goal return (12 in 38) has been on a par with Jacob Brown's (13 in 45) this season. So are they both crap forwards or both decent? Might be 2 or 3 penalties in his 12 goals which you can't really count in a like for like comparison? But I do agree, he's no worse than anyone else. We may as well have got something for our 12 million quid or whatever it was
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on May 18, 2022 18:55:46 GMT
To be be fair why would he disrespect the club or refuse to play? The club has been good to him in general. Because other managers after Rowett don't want him is the way it goes in football. Be good for all concerned it we could sell him but I'd imagine he isn't going to give up his nice contract so isn't going to ruffle any feathers It’s frustrating that we need a goalscorer , we have one with a good track record on the books and don’t use him. I understand the financial needs to move our most expensive investments on but he is only one of several players that have underperformed once we have signed them or whose relationship with the club seems to have soured. Did we only sign bad-eggs or has there been something about our club that has caused this. If only we had a definitive answer. He’s been absolutely lamentable for us at pretty much every opportunity, MON had another look at him in pre-season and again wasn’t impressed by him. He’s had his chance, he really doesn’t offer enough in his all round play for us to carry him as a passenger. If we can get anything at all for him he needs to go pronto.
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