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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2022 15:35:15 GMT
I can't see us having managed to negotiate any more than 15% of any profit, because Burnley knew they were buying an asset and that was part of the appeal - and they were already spending( for them )big money. If they manage to get £25m, 15% would give us about £2m, which isn't to be sneezed at in our state. All guesswork though. If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. And before anyone chimes in and says you can't have a sell on as a percentage of the full fee, you absolutely can.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 15:36:03 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jun 20, 2022 15:36:03 GMT
I don't think we should have been getting 40m but I did think he was worth 25m when we sold him. Agreed. They got him cheap due to our parlous financial position.
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Post by nonameface on Jun 20, 2022 15:36:43 GMT
I can't see us having managed to negotiate any more than 15% of any profit, because Burnley knew they were buying an asset and that was part of the appeal - and they were already spending( for them )big money. If they manage to get £25m, 15% would give us about £2m, which isn't to be sneezed at in our state. All guesswork though. If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. with our history its great to know we've even got a clause, surely?! The club could be better on these negotiations, but it could be worse too. We appear to be getting better over time. Generally speaking how come there is so much negativity about the things the club has done that we don't know about yet? it seems unnecessarily relentless.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 15:36:49 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jun 20, 2022 15:36:49 GMT
I can't see us having managed to negotiate any more than 15% of any profit, because Burnley knew they were buying an asset and that was part of the appeal - and they were already spending( for them )big money. If they manage to get £25m, 15% would give us about £2m, which isn't to be sneezed at in our state. All guesswork though. If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. We weren't in a position to negotiate.
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Post by greenhoff on Jun 20, 2022 15:51:35 GMT
If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. with our history its great to know we've even got a clause, surely?! The club could be better on these negotiations, but it could be worse too. We appear to be getting better over time. Generally speaking how come there is so much negativity about the things the club has done that we don't know about yet? it seems unnecessarily relentless. If it was 50% some would moan.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 15:53:30 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 20, 2022 15:53:30 GMT
If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. with our history its great to know we've even got a clause, surely?! The club could be better on these negotiations, but it could be worse too. We appear to be getting better over time. Generally speaking how come there is so much negativity about the things the club has done that we don't know about yet? it seems unnecessarily relentless. From my point of view its because we've been relentlessly utter shit for over 6 years and if we had zero resources, I'd understand it, but thanks to the fuckwits making the decisions, it goes on, and on, and on.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jun 20, 2022 16:18:28 GMT
I don't think we should have been getting 40m but I did think he was worth 25m when we sold him. Agreed. They got him cheap due to our parlous financial position. It's always how much another club is willing to pay though isn't it? Collins was sold to Burnley for £15m because no one else wanted to pay more than that. We got Butland on the cheap in similar fashion from Birmingham many years ago.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 16:26:44 GMT
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Post by scfcno1fan on Jun 20, 2022 16:26:44 GMT
Where’s the sell on fee as a percentage of profit as opposed to gross fee come from?
I always assumed it would be gross fee.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 17:14:24 GMT
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Post by lordb on Jun 20, 2022 17:14:24 GMT
I can't see us having managed to negotiate any more than 15% of any profit, because Burnley knew they were buying an asset and that was part of the appeal - and they were already spending( for them )big money. If they manage to get £25m, 15% would give us about £2m, which isn't to be sneezed at in our state. All guesswork though. If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. It's standard to get percentage of profit, you do get sell ons that are straight percentage though Depends on how high the percentage is
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 17:17:16 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jun 20, 2022 17:17:16 GMT
If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. It's standard to get percentage of profit, you do get sell ons that are straight percentage though Depends on how high the percentage is Absolutely but I think for the low premium we accepted we should at least have a steep sell on fee coming to us, because most of us knew he'd be an excellent premier league player. He must be worth 30 million plus, he's excellent on the ball, so young.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 17:25:38 GMT
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Post by nonameface on Jun 20, 2022 17:25:38 GMT
with our history its great to know we've even got a clause, surely?! The club could be better on these negotiations, but it could be worse too. We appear to be getting better over time. Generally speaking how come there is so much negativity about the things the club has done that we don't know about yet? it seems unnecessarily relentless. From my point of view its because we've been relentlessly utter shit for over 6 years and if we had zero resources, I'd understand it, but thanks to the fuckwits making the decisions, it goes on, and on, and on. Yeah it's sad to see us make no progress, it's painful after a 10 year purple patch. After our poor signings leading to relegation and then our awful recruitment in our first championship season, it has made it so we are limited to making the changes necessary to improving to the required standard. In that way, being tied to expensive previous losses we are as poor as they come.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 18:14:38 GMT
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Post by J-Roar on Jun 20, 2022 18:14:38 GMT
Agreed. They got him cheap due to our parlous financial position. It's always how much another club is willing to pay though isn't it? Collins was sold to Burnley for £15m because no one else wanted to pay more than that. We got Butland on the cheap in similar fashion from Birmingham many years ago. If we'd still had parachute money we wouldn't have had to sell and would have struck a better deal.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jun 20, 2022 19:46:42 GMT
It's always how much another club is willing to pay though isn't it? Collins was sold to Burnley for £15m because no one else wanted to pay more than that. We got Butland on the cheap in similar fashion from Birmingham many years ago. If we'd still had parachute money we wouldn't have had to sell and would have struck a better deal. But we didn't have parachute money, and no one was willing to pay more than Burnley at that time. We probably wouldn't have sold him at all if so much money hadn't been wasted on transfer fees and wages.
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Post by J-Roar on Jun 20, 2022 21:11:28 GMT
If we'd still had parachute money we wouldn't have had to sell and would have struck a better deal. But we didn't have parachute money, and no one was willing to pay more than Burnley at that time. We probably wouldn't have sold him at all if so much money hadn't been wasted on transfer fees and wages. I think we are agreeing here.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Jun 20, 2022 22:11:22 GMT
But we didn't have parachute money, and no one was willing to pay more than Burnley at that time. We probably wouldn't have sold him at all if so much money hadn't been wasted on transfer fees and wages. I think we are agreeing here. I don't. So I'll agree to disagree that we're agreeing.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 22:12:25 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2022 22:12:25 GMT
If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. It's standard to get percentage of profit, you do get sell ons that are straight percentage though Depends on how high the percentage is We went over this. It’s not standard, it’s absolutely not. Why have you made it up. The standard is the opposite. I showed you the rules 😂🤦♂️
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 22:35:12 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 20, 2022 22:35:12 GMT
If it's only a percentage of the profit, that's bad news for us once again and very bad negotiating. And before anyone chimes in and says you can't have a sell on as a percentage of the full fee, you absolutely can. You can if you are negotiating with idiots but its not something I can recall happening very often and if it does its usually when the initial fee is so small that its pretty similar to a % of profit, I cant think of an instance where it has applied to someone who was bought for £15m. More interesting would be if he joins Wolves for £25m say and Burnley put a sell on in the contract that would mean we might get another bite of the profit.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 22:36:54 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2022 22:36:54 GMT
And before anyone chimes in and says you can't have a sell on as a percentage of the full fee, you absolutely can. You can if you are negotiating with idiots but its not something I can recall happening very often and if it does its usually when the initial fee is so small that its pretty similar to a % of profit, I cant think of an instance where it has applied to someone who was bought for £15m. More interesting would be if he joins Wolves for £25m say and Burnley put a sell on in the contract that would mean we might get another bite of the profit. It’s the standard way FIFA do it for the fees they write into transfers.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 22:55:41 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 20, 2022 22:55:41 GMT
You can if you are negotiating with idiots but its not something I can recall happening very often and if it does its usually when the initial fee is so small that its pretty similar to a % of profit, I cant think of an instance where it has applied to someone who was bought for £15m. More interesting would be if he joins Wolves for £25m say and Burnley put a sell on in the contract that would mean we might get another bite of the profit. It’s the standard way FIFA do it for the fees they write into transfers. So we did have a sell on agreement in the Nzonzi deal after all l am guessing not many clubs use these standard fees / contracts as I am not aware of any significant ones.
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Collins
Jun 20, 2022 23:04:41 GMT
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 20, 2022 23:04:41 GMT
It’s the standard way FIFA do it for the fees they write into transfers. So we did have a sell on agreement in the Nzonzi deal after all l am guessing not many clubs use these standard fees / contracts as I am not aware of any significant ones. Nah only if they’ve been at your club before they were 23.
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Collins
Jun 21, 2022 0:28:12 GMT
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Post by potterpaul on Jun 21, 2022 0:28:12 GMT
I can't see us having managed to negotiate any more than 15% of any profit, because Burnley knew they were buying an asset and that was part of the appeal - and they were already spending( for them )big money. If they manage to get £25m, 15% would give us about £2m, which isn't to be sneezed at in our state. All guesswork though. What were we asking for when we sold him, £15m? I always thought add-ons/sell-ons were paid to make up the total of previous clubs original valuation. I'd be expecting no more or no less than a £3m payment upon sale.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 23, 2022 13:22:48 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2022 12:50:01 GMT
Burnley splashing £4m on Twine, and loaning in another young Man City centre-back (in addition to £2m on Ballard, the other centre-back). Must be anticipating a Collins sale?
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Collins
Jun 24, 2022 12:53:45 GMT
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Post by nigerianstokie on Jun 24, 2022 12:53:45 GMT
Burnley splashing £4m on Twine, and loaning in another young Man City centre-back (in addition to £2m on Ballard, the other centre-back). Must be anticipating a Collins sale? Just sold Pope to Newcastle. Surely that’s that money? Replacing Mee and Tarkowski with it?
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2022 12:56:12 GMT
Burnley splashing £4m on Twine, and loaning in another young Man City centre-back (in addition to £2m on Ballard, the other centre-back). Must be anticipating a Collins sale? Just sold Pope to Newcastle. Surely that’s that money? Replacing Mee and Tarkowski with it? Yeah, but you'd think the 2 centre-backs they've brought in over the last 24 hours will expect to play. They've gazumped Coventry at the 11th hour this morning for the Man City kiddie Not definitive , as it always looked like he'd leave this summer at some point, but another straw in the wind maybe
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Collins
Jun 24, 2022 13:02:31 GMT
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Post by nigerianstokie on Jun 24, 2022 13:02:31 GMT
Just sold Pope to Newcastle. Surely that’s that money? Replacing Mee and Tarkowski with it? Yeah, but you'd think the 2 centre-backs they've brought in over the last 24 hours will expect to play. They've gazumped Coventry at the 11th hour this morning for the Man City kiddie Not definitive , as it always looked like he'd leave this summer at some point, but another straw in the wind maybe I imagine he will probably leave, which’d be nice. Wonder if Kompnay played a three at Anderlecht though.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jun 24, 2022 13:10:27 GMT
Yeah, but you'd think the 2 centre-backs they've brought in over the last 24 hours will expect to play. They've gazumped Coventry at the 11th hour this morning for the Man City kiddie Not definitive , as it always looked like he'd leave this summer at some point, but another straw in the wind maybe I imagine he will probably leave, which’d be nice. Wonder if Kompnay played a three at Anderlecht though. www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vincent-kompany/leistungsdatenDetail/trainer/69681He seems to be mainly a back 4 man And with Harwood-Bellis to come maybe....
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Collins
Jun 24, 2022 13:20:41 GMT
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Jun 24, 2022 13:20:41 GMT
Anyone know the % in the sell on clause for Collins?
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Collins
Jun 24, 2022 13:22:57 GMT
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jun 24, 2022 13:22:57 GMT
You can if you are negotiating with idiots but its not something I can recall happening very often and if it does its usually when the initial fee is so small that its pretty similar to a % of profit, I cant think of an instance where it has applied to someone who was bought for £15m. More interesting would be if he joins Wolves for £25m say and Burnley put a sell on in the contract that would mean we might get another bite of the profit. It’s the standard way FIFA do it for the fees they write into transfers. What has FIFA got to do with it? A template contract is optional and rarely used. Can you find an example of a transfer between English clubs with a percentage of total fee ever being used? And it’s a meaningless point anyway as all that would happen is you negotiated this clause is the initial fee would be lower. There is a market price and for us the Collins deal was a fire sale, without the money we would have breached FFP in 2021/22
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Post by leesandfordstoupe on Jun 24, 2022 13:23:22 GMT
Anyone know the % in the sell on clause for Collins? Someone on here said 15% a while back no idea whether he knew what he was talking about or not.
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