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Post by spiderpuss on Nov 28, 2021 14:33:47 GMT
As expected Entice has now failed, bringing the total failed companies to 25. I don't just think this is company mismanagement, but system failure. I can't imagine for one moment 25 companies thought we'll set up an energy company to fail. It's tricky when you have a competitive market with a static price cap. It's very difficult. It's trying to sell sausage rolls for a pound, when they cost you 50p. If the rolls surge to 5 pound root cost, no other market in the world would force you to continue the pound price.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 28, 2021 14:59:51 GMT
I read with interest the capitalism v socialism debate and of course both have their advantages and disadvantages. With these cyber energy companies like Bulb we see the ugly side of capitalism. They see an opportunity in the market price to buy a "chunk" of energy off the generators at a low price and sell it on to customers with attractive deals, and cream of profit doing very little than sitting in an office in a London skyscraper managing software. It's easy money. The problem is there is no security for anybody. Bulb and others take a risk and the people who buy from them take a risk and then when it all goes pear shaped they expect the cautious people and companies and tax payer to bail them out because their gamble (basically that's what it is ) hasn't paid off. Whether regulation is the answer I don't know. Certainly there should be more "hazard warning" to naive customers who don't realise the risk. An energy bill has to cover many costs. It is not simply the cost of the basic energy source. The current rise is due to gas prices rising world wide post pandemic. The UK electricity price is heavily dependant on gas price because we have shutdown almost all our coal power stations. But there are many other costs that go into the final energy bill such as distribution costs. Germany has taken action to limit the profit of German energy distributers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulb_Energywww.reuters.com/business/german-regulator-cuts-power-gas-grid-earnings-protect-consumers-2021-10-20/This is 155 Bishopsgate: www.realla.co.uk/details/19919997Who lives there? : suite.endole.co.uk/explorer/postcode/ec2m-3tqBulb pre tax loss 2019 £129m pre tax loss 2020 £63m - is that really the ugly face of capitalism Mr Coke those losses are basically from providing energy supplies to customers cheaper than the big 6 does, socialism in action the problem being of course as usual they run out of other peoples money So unless they have been charging serious rent or other costs through an intercompany arrangement, there has been no profits to cream off, I don't think they have as they had £300m+ of venture capital loans / funding, my guess the business model was just to grow the customer numbers to such a level one of the big 6 would take them over and that would repay the loan and produce a profit for the people who set the company up as they would not have been allowed to pay dividends as they did not have the profits historically.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 28, 2021 18:15:54 GMT
I read with interest the capitalism v socialism debate and of course both have their advantages and disadvantages. With these cyber energy companies like Bulb we see the ugly side of capitalism. They see an opportunity in the market price to buy a "chunk" of energy off the generators at a low price and sell it on to customers with attractive deals, and cream of profit doing very little than sitting in an office in a London skyscraper managing software. It's easy money. The problem is there is no security for anybody. Bulb and others take a risk and the people who buy from them take a risk and then when it all goes pear shaped they expect the cautious people and companies and tax payer to bail them out because their gamble (basically that's what it is ) hasn't paid off. Whether regulation is the answer I don't know. Certainly there should be more "hazard warning" to naive customers who don't realise the risk. An energy bill has to cover many costs. It is not simply the cost of the basic energy source. The current rise is due to gas prices rising world wide post pandemic. The UK electricity price is heavily dependant on gas price because we have shutdown almost all our coal power stations. But there are many other costs that go into the final energy bill such as distribution costs. Germany has taken action to limit the profit of German energy distributers. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulb_Energywww.reuters.com/business/german-regulator-cuts-power-gas-grid-earnings-protect-consumers-2021-10-20/This is 155 Bishopsgate: www.realla.co.uk/details/19919997Who lives there? : suite.endole.co.uk/explorer/postcode/ec2m-3tqBulb pre tax loss 2019 £129m pre tax loss 2020 £63m - is that really the ugly face of capitalism Mr Coke those losses are basically from providing energy supplies to customers cheaper than the big 6 does, socialism in action the problem being of course as usual they run out of other peoples money So unless they have been charging serious rent or other costs through an intercompany arrangement, there has been no profits to cream off, I don't think they have as they had £300m+ of venture capital loans / funding, my guess the business model was just to grow the customer numbers to such a level one of the big 6 would take them over and that would repay the loan and produce a profit for the people who set the company up as they would not have been allowed to pay dividends as they did not have the profits historically. As a said it is gambling and sometimes it pays off for some of the time. If Bulb customers are happy today that they had a good deal while it lasted they have done well at other people's expense. One thing is for certain is that the bosses of Bulb will have come out of it well and paid themselves well while it lasted and probably don't have to work again. I just hope my pension funds haven't put too much money into these type of risky ventures.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 29, 2021 10:39:39 GMT
Bulb pre tax loss 2019 £129m pre tax loss 2020 £63m - is that really the ugly face of capitalism Mr Coke those losses are basically from providing energy supplies to customers cheaper than the big 6 does, socialism in action the problem being of course as usual they run out of other peoples money So unless they have been charging serious rent or other costs through an intercompany arrangement, there has been no profits to cream off, I don't think they have as they had £300m+ of venture capital loans / funding, my guess the business model was just to grow the customer numbers to such a level one of the big 6 would take them over and that would repay the loan and produce a profit for the people who set the company up as they would not have been allowed to pay dividends as they did not have the profits historically. As a said it is gambling and sometimes it pays off for some of the time. If Bulb customers are happy today that they had a good deal while it lasted they have done well at other people's expense. One thing is for certain is that the bosses of Bulb will have come out of it well and paid themselves well while it lasted and probably don't have to work again. I just hope my pension funds haven't put too much money into these type of risky ventures. Was on companies house website for work so also took a quick look at Bulb / Simple Energy accounts. Highest paid directors were on £114k 2020 £81k 2019 Staff costs 2020 £22.6m (502) 2019 £11.8m (203) That doesn't look like figures that mean people don't need to work again, there are mentions of share options for directors so to me its clear their aim was to grow the business to a level they could sell or float. The unprecedented rise in the cost of energy combined with the price cap is what did for them, I can't think of any other industry the government decides the selling price, there is nothing particularly risky about their business they buy and sell just like pretty much every other business, the risk is the same as every other business customers do not buy your goods or service leaving you with unsold "items", here the problem is the price cap is set at a level below the purchase price its like the government saying to Amazon you have to sell the new Adele CD at 25p maximum even if it costs you £5 to buy. The price cap should have been scrapped or changed to purchase price +1% or 2% for the short term.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 29, 2021 12:04:21 GMT
As a said it is gambling and sometimes it pays off for some of the time. If Bulb customers are happy today that they had a good deal while it lasted they have done well at other people's expense. One thing is for certain is that the bosses of Bulb will have come out of it well and paid themselves well while it lasted and probably don't have to work again. I just hope my pension funds haven't put too much money into these type of risky ventures. Was on companies house website for work so also took a quick look at Bulb / Simple Energy accounts. Highest paid directors were on £114k 2020 £81k 2019 Staff costs 2020 £22.6m (502) 2019 £11.8m (203) That doesn't look like figures that mean people don't need to work again, there are mentions of share options for directors so to me its clear their aim was to grow the business to a level they could sell or float. The unprecedented rise in the cost of energy combined with the price cap is what did for them, I can't think of any other industry the government decides the selling price, there is nothing particularly risky about their business they buy and sell just like pretty much every other business, the risk is the same as every other business customers do not buy your goods or service leaving you with unsold "items", here the problem is the price cap is set at a level below the purchase price its like the government saying to Amazon you have to sell the new Adele CD at 25p maximum even if it costs you £5 to buy. The price cap should have been scrapped or changed to purchase price +1% or 2% for the short term. OK I accept the declared pay to directors was not excessive. We don't know about there expense claims and other terms and conditions. But essentially what you are saying in your last line is that companies should be protected from market forces and the tax payer picks up the bill when they go bust. Pretty much like a nationalised industry, except if the venture is very successful those owners fill their pockets. A no lose situation. The price cap is to protect the public, including Bulb customers. I am not in favour of nationalisation like some on this thread. I think it is inherently inefficient. But I do believe there needs to be constraint and controls on capitalism. Look what happened when Blair and Brown relaxed the controls on the financial industry at the start of the millennium. www.theguardian.com/business/2011/dec/12/labour-regulations-city-rbs-collapsewww.standard.co.uk/hp/front/tony-blair-must-share-the-blame-for-financial-crisis-6509408.htmlI once worked for a large international business that decided to sell off the part I was working for. It went to a management buy out with a few directors borrowing money from an investment bank to buy it. I decided to get out as soon as I could as I did not trust the characters buying the business. Two years later the business went bankrupt. The suppliers lost what they were owed and the company reestablished the next day and carried on. Captialism can stink. Those people who ran Bulb and Simple Energy will have done alright and are probably sitting in the home counties mansions cooking up their next scheme or scam.
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Post by followyoudown on Nov 29, 2021 12:42:19 GMT
Was on companies house website for work so also took a quick look at Bulb / Simple Energy accounts. Highest paid directors were on £114k 2020 £81k 2019 Staff costs 2020 £22.6m (502) 2019 £11.8m (203) That doesn't look like figures that mean people don't need to work again, there are mentions of share options for directors so to me its clear their aim was to grow the business to a level they could sell or float. The unprecedented rise in the cost of energy combined with the price cap is what did for them, I can't think of any other industry the government decides the selling price, there is nothing particularly risky about their business they buy and sell just like pretty much every other business, the risk is the same as every other business customers do not buy your goods or service leaving you with unsold "items", here the problem is the price cap is set at a level below the purchase price its like the government saying to Amazon you have to sell the new Adele CD at 25p maximum even if it costs you £5 to buy. The price cap should have been scrapped or changed to purchase price +1% or 2% for the short term. OK I accept the declared pay to directors was not excessive. We don't know about there expense claims and other terms and conditions. But essentially what you are saying in your last line is that companies should be protected from market forces and the tax payer picks up the bill when they go bust. Pretty much like a nationalised industry, except if the venture is very successful those owners fill their pockets. A no lose situation. The price cap is to protect the public, including Bulb customers. I am not in favour of nationalisation like some on this thread. I think it is inherently inefficient. But I do believe there needs to be constraint and controls on capitalism. Look what happened when Blair and Brown relaxed the controls on the financial industry at the start of the millennium. www.theguardian.com/business/2011/dec/12/labour-regulations-city-rbs-collapsewww.standard.co.uk/hp/front/tony-blair-must-share-the-blame-for-financial-crisis-6509408.htmlI once worked for a large international business that decided to sell off the part I was working for. It went to a management buy out with a few directors borrowing money from an investment bank to buy it. I decided to get out as soon as I could as I did not trust the characters buying the business. Two years later the business went bankrupt. The suppliers lost what they were owed and the company reestablished the next day and carried on. Captialism can stink. Those people who ran Bulb and Simple Energy will have done alright and are probably sitting in the home counties mansions cooking up their next scheme or scam. Without boring you with accounting the figures I quoted are total remuneration of the directors, if you pay their rent, hire a car or do anything else it has to go in here, you also have to declare in a separate note any loans to directors so that is all the money they are getting. Nope I am not arguing for companies to be protected from market forces but in a situation where prices have risen so dramatically a company is bankrupt or insolvent and the losses made are such that no other supplier is prepared to take them over it surely makes more sense to let them raise prices rather than the government effectively paying 1 billion+ to keep 1.8m peoples bills lower for a few months. It's not a scheme or scam, I can think of very few businesses that could see such a multifold increase in purchase price and contintue to trade without being allowed to increase sales price correspondingly.
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Post by spiderpuss on Dec 1, 2021 11:07:44 GMT
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 1, 2021 13:46:50 GMT
First of all we have to look at the reasons why there's a price cap in the first place. It was done because energy companies were making massive profits, which resulted in exorbitant payouts to shareholders, especially foreign ones, and not enough investment in the industry. Then let's look at what the government have done over the last decade or so. They had the choice to nationalise the industry but chose not to, instead, opening the market to more suppliers to bring the price down on a competitive basis. Although I would have preferred the former choice, I'm not going to knock them for opening the market to competition once they'd decided not to nationalise. It worked and has been responsible for the price of energy being kept at a reasonable level. (Responsible capitalism can work.) So why the current situation? Here's a good link to explain why we are where we are. ExplanationThis is why I have always been of the opinion that all social engineering projects should remain in government hands and not be subject to a free market economy. In those I include energy, water, transport, health, and education. Once you've secured the basic elements that keep a society running, then by all means involve a free market economy. OS.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 1, 2021 14:15:30 GMT
First of all we have to look at the reasons why there's a price cap in the first place. It was done because energy companies were making massive profits, which resulted in exorbitant payouts to shareholders, especially foreign ones, and not enough investment in the industry. Then let's look at what the government have done over the last decade or so. They had the choice to nationalise the industry but chose not to, instead, opening the market to more suppliers to bring the price down on a competitive basis. Although I would have preferred the former choice, I'm not going to knock them for opening the market to competition once they'd decided not to nationalise. It worked and has been responsible for the price of energy being kept at a reasonable level. (Responsible capitalism can work.) So why the current situation? Here's a good link to explain why we are where we are. ExplanationThis is why I have always been of the opinion that all social engineering projects should remain in government hands and not be subject to a free market economy. In those I include energy, water, transport, health, and education. Once you've secured the basic elements that keep a society running, then by all means involve a free market economy. OS. We agree on most things OS but not this one. Yes we need regulation to stop bright sparks at OG gas spotting an opportunity to make a quick buck, but nationalisation is not the answer. Nationalised industries are by their very nature inefficient, large cumbersome businesses with long communication lines, no competition, so they get lazy and fat and pass all their costs on to the poor customer. We all know what organizations like British Road Services, the Gas Board, the Electricity Board, and others were like. We have gone too far the other way allowing the ugly face of capitalism loose and need reform, but please not nationalisation. Tony Blair started to privatise parts of the NHS and there is no reason why certain things like cleaning, maintenance, IT, etc. cannot be put out to competitive tender.
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Post by OldStokie on Dec 1, 2021 20:34:35 GMT
First of all we have to look at the reasons why there's a price cap in the first place. It was done because energy companies were making massive profits, which resulted in exorbitant payouts to shareholders, especially foreign ones, and not enough investment in the industry. Then let's look at what the government have done over the last decade or so. They had the choice to nationalise the industry but chose not to, instead, opening the market to more suppliers to bring the price down on a competitive basis. Although I would have preferred the former choice, I'm not going to knock them for opening the market to competition once they'd decided not to nationalise. It worked and has been responsible for the price of energy being kept at a reasonable level. (Responsible capitalism can work.) So why the current situation? Here's a good link to explain why we are where we are. ExplanationThis is why I have always been of the opinion that all social engineering projects should remain in government hands and not be subject to a free market economy. In those I include energy, water, transport, health, and education. Once you've secured the basic elements that keep a society running, then by all means involve a free market economy. OS. We agree on most things OS but not this one. Yes we need regulation to stop bright sparks at OG gas spotting an opportunity to make a quick buck, but nationalisation is not the answer. Nationalised industries are by their very nature inefficient, large cumbersome businesses with long communication lines, no competition, so they get lazy and fat and pass all their costs on to the poor customer. We all know what organizations like British Road Services, the Gas Board, the Electricity Board, and others were like. We have gone too far the other way allowing the ugly face of capitalism loose and need reform, but please not nationalisation. Tony Blair started to privatise parts of the NHS and there is no reason why certain things like cleaning, maintenance, IT, etc. cannot be put out to competitive tender. You're living in the past Mr Coke. I wouldn't disagree at all that past nationalisation was dire. But that's when we had commies running the damned things. We live in a whole new world now where things are different. We need an independent apolitical tzar to drive these things through; use the best of British business people and pay them handsomely; appoint John Harvey Jones (or someone like him) as Back Office Procurement Manager; etc. It can be done or are we to continue to see mostly foreign investment (or lack of it) taking us forward? How many times do we see these type of entities ripping us off like in our rail network where the government has to renationalise them, make them profitable again, and then give them back to the same connected sods to repeat the process? How do we get to the situation where that bastard, Branson, can sue our NHS for millions and invest it in his toy airplane frolics? Nationalisation, like Capitalism, can be a rotten egg if you allow it to be, but, like Capitalism, it works if you set it up right. I'm a radical. Put me in charge and I'd show you. Once I'd invested a couple of billion in SCFC from the taxpayer, those fat cat buggers who are running it now would have a boardroom table from Ikea costing five grand and not one made from a 1000 year old mahogany tree that cost £100,000. OS.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 29, 2021 10:17:42 GMT
Scanning the news this morning one common feature on many sites is next years energy price crisis. The media is full of stories about our energy bills going up £1,200 next year. Then I discover this obscure article: oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/EU-Natural-Gas-Prices-Tumble-For-Fifth-Straight-Day.htmlYou do wonder how well our media serves us. Are they any better (or even worse) than the politicians pushing their own agenda and failing to properly gather the facts and inform? The media are guilty of causing the petrol crisis, wild exaggerations of shortages, and constantly predicting doom and gloom damaging the morale of the country. I have relatives who have totally turned off listening/watching the news as they find it so depressing. I wonder whether the media news people are steadily destroying their own jobs? Edit: I've also found this: www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/energy-crisis-qatar-gas-uk-b1983252.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Reg%231%20WelcomeEnergy crisis: Britain leans on gas shipments from Qatar to ease supply squeeze"Britain has tapped Qatar as an informal natural gas supplier of last resort in the face of soaring gas prices across Europe, The Independent has learnt, after a visit to the gulf nation by foreign secretary Liz Truss.
"Pressure to ensure gas supply has mounted amid record prices across the EU and in Britain. Pandemic production disruption, lack of UK storage capacity and slimmer stores in major EU economies have left many countries scrambling to top up supplies of natural gas this winter."
I know there are many on here that despise Liz Truss, but you have to give her credit for getting stuck into a problem. She delivered on trade deals and is here seen to be proactive, unlike Raab who stayed on the beach during the Afghan crisis.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Dec 29, 2021 10:32:51 GMT
Scanning the news this morning one common feature on many sites is next years energy price crisis. The media is full of stories about our energy bills going up £1,200 next year. Then I discover this obscure article: oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/EU-Natural-Gas-Prices-Tumble-For-Fifth-Straight-Day.htmlYou do wonder how well our media serves us. Are they any better (or even worse) than the politicians pushing their own agenda and failing to properly gather the facts and inform? The media are guilty of causing the petrol crisis, wild exaggerations of shortages, and constantly predicting doom and gloom damaging the morale of the country. I have relatives who have totally turned off listening/watching the news as they find it so depressing. I wonder whether the media news people are steadily destroying their own jobs? I'm a bit of a stuck record on this but they 'make' the news, they no longer report it. They're proxy spin doctors for whichever evil overlord owns them and whichever government they allow to legislate in their favour.
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Post by Northy on Dec 29, 2021 15:11:35 GMT
Scanning the news this morning one common feature on many sites is next years energy price crisis. The media is full of stories about our energy bills going up £1,200 next year. Then I discover this obscure article: oilprice.com/Energy/Natural-Gas/EU-Natural-Gas-Prices-Tumble-For-Fifth-Straight-Day.htmlYou do wonder how well our media serves us. Are they any better (or even worse) than the politicians pushing their own agenda and failing to properly gather the facts and inform? The media are guilty of causing the petrol crisis, wild exaggerations of shortages, and constantly predicting doom and gloom damaging the morale of the country. I have relatives who have totally turned off listening/watching the news as they find it so depressing. I wonder whether the media news people are steadily destroying their own jobs? Edit: I've also found this: www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/energy-crisis-qatar-gas-uk-b1983252.html?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Reg%231%20WelcomeEnergy crisis: Britain leans on gas shipments from Qatar to ease supply squeeze"Britain has tapped Qatar as an informal natural gas supplier of last resort in the face of soaring gas prices across Europe, The Independent has learnt, after a visit to the gulf nation by foreign secretary Liz Truss.
"Pressure to ensure gas supply has mounted amid record prices across the EU and in Britain. Pandemic production disruption, lack of UK storage capacity and slimmer stores in major EU economies have left many countries scrambling to top up supplies of natural gas this winter."
I know there are many on here that despise Liz Truss, but you have to give her credit for getting stuck into a problem. She delivered on trade deals and is here seen to be proactive, unlike Raab who stayed on the beach during the Afghan crisis. I wonder how many complaining about the world cup being in Qatar because of human rights will refuse gas to heat their homes
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Post by andystokey on Mar 7, 2022 18:43:05 GMT
Anyone else on heating oil?
We are in rural Staffs and there is no gas, abot 1million home are not on the grid. Unlike gas and leccy there is no price cap. In the middle of Covid it was 25p per litre today 140p per litre. I am on empty and rang up last week to get a fill up and they said they couldn't give me a price it would just be whatever it was on the day they deliver.
At the time of my phone call last Monday to the supplier it was 75ppl today a week later 140ppl and still not here yet its going up at about 10p per day per litre.
Absolutely terrified what it will cost. I've done a fag packet calculation which indicates at the new price heating the house has cost £1000 or £18.80 per day in the 2 months since Christmas and that's with me supplementing with the log burner only switching it on between 5pm and 10pm.
I'm working full time and its hurting, I've no idea how the oldies are going to cope with this.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 7, 2022 19:11:23 GMT
Anyone else on heating oil? We are in rural Staffs and there is no gas, abot 1million home are not on the grid. Unlike gas and leccy there is no price cap. In the middle of Covid it was 25p per litre today 140p per litre. I am on empty and rang up last week to get a fill up and they said they couldn't give me a price it would just be whatever it was on the day they deliver. At the time of my phone call last Monday to the supplier it was 75ppl today a week later 140ppl and still not here yet its going up at about 10p per day per litre. Absolutely terrified what it will cost. I've done a fag packet calculation which indicates at the new price heating the house has cost £1000 or £18.80 per day in the 2 months since Christmas and that's with me supplementing with the log burner only switching it on between 5pm and 10pm. I'm working full time and its hurting, I've no idea how the oldies are going to cope with this. It's painful I agree. I'm also off grid (apart from electricity - for which I fortunately fixed for 2 years back in August with someone who hasn't yet gone bust). About 3 weeks ago I needed a fill for the tank and went to my usual supplier for 1000 litres and thought it a bit steep even given the circumstances - So I rang round and was able to get it £80 cheaper on the total delivery price from someone I'd not used before but may well do so again. Previously I'd only found shopping around saved me £10 or £15 at best and so often didn't bother for the hassle of getting set up with a new supplier - however it would seem right now the stakes are much higher.
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Post by andystokey on Mar 7, 2022 19:19:35 GMT
Anyone else on heating oil? We are in rural Staffs and there is no gas, abot 1million home are not on the grid. Unlike gas and leccy there is no price cap. In the middle of Covid it was 25p per litre today 140p per litre. I am on empty and rang up last week to get a fill up and they said they couldn't give me a price it would just be whatever it was on the day they deliver. At the time of my phone call last Monday to the supplier it was 75ppl today a week later 140ppl and still not here yet its going up at about 10p per day per litre. Absolutely terrified what it will cost. I've done a fag packet calculation which indicates at the new price heating the house has cost £1000 or £18.80 per day in the 2 months since Christmas and that's with me supplementing with the log burner only switching it on between 5pm and 10pm. I'm working full time and its hurting, I've no idea how the oldies are going to cope with this. It's painful I agree. I'm also off grid (apart from electricity - for which I fortunately fixed for 2 years back in August with someone who hasn't yet gone bust). About 3 weeks ago I needed a fill for the tank and went to my usual supplier for 1000 litres and thought it a bit steep even given the circumstances - So I rang round and was able to get it £80 cheaper on the total delivery price from someone I'd not used before but may well do so again. Previously I'd only found shopping around saved me £10 or £15 at best and so often didn't bother for the hassle of getting set up with a new supplier - however it would seem right now the stakes are much higher. I have a mate in Lincoln and boolerjuice.com have no supply on heating oil in his area. The Irish times are quoting supply rationing. I guess some is panic buying but the oil barrel price is hitting the heating oil each day. Everyone else is going to feel this soon because lots of industry uses kerosene for heating and so on. This will impact other items in the supply chain quicker than some may think. www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/home-heating-oil-supplies-are-capped-as-fuel-prices-surge-1.4820747
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 7, 2022 19:41:59 GMT
It's painful I agree. I'm also off grid (apart from electricity - for which I fortunately fixed for 2 years back in August with someone who hasn't yet gone bust). About 3 weeks ago I needed a fill for the tank and went to my usual supplier for 1000 litres and thought it a bit steep even given the circumstances - So I rang round and was able to get it £80 cheaper on the total delivery price from someone I'd not used before but may well do so again. Previously I'd only found shopping around saved me £10 or £15 at best and so often didn't bother for the hassle of getting set up with a new supplier - however it would seem right now the stakes are much higher. I have a mate in Lincoln and boolerjuice.com have no supply on heating oil in his area. The Irish times are quoting supply rationing. I guess some is panic buying but the oil barrel price is hitting the heating oil each day. Everyone else is going to feel this soon because lots of industry uses kerosene for heating and so on. This will impact other items in the supply chain quicker than some may think. www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/home-heating-oil-supplies-are-capped-as-fuel-prices-surge-1.4820747 Just had a quick look - as you say some not quoting but have seen at £1.10. Still extortionate but down on the £1.40 you were quoted.
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Post by andystokey on Mar 7, 2022 19:46:19 GMT
Just had a quick look - as you say some not quoting but have seen at £1.10. Still extortionate but down on the £1.40 you were quoted. I'm on order now but as I said they refused to fix the price at the order price, which is terrifying. This has only been their position in the last week.
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Post by questionable on Mar 7, 2022 20:01:21 GMT
Just had a quick look - as you say some not quoting but have seen at £1.10. Still extortionate but down on the £1.40 you were quoted. I'm on order now but as I said they refused to fix the price at the order price, which is terrifying. This has only been their position in the last week. We’re on oil and when I placed an order two weeks ago I was immediately told the minimum I could order was 500 litres, made out I needed that amount but upon delivery I had 387 @ 65 pence per litre, bloke next door ordered last Friday and sure he was told 85p a litre. I was tight before but I’m determined to use less now as trying not to pay way over the odds for fuel.
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Post by superjw on Mar 8, 2022 13:31:32 GMT
Difficult to see past some of the media fearmongering right now, but whatever happens we are in for a really tough few years.
There will come a point where these price rises are unsustainable
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 8, 2022 13:51:27 GMT
Difficult to see past some of the media fearmongering right now, but whatever happens we are in for a really tough few years. There will come a point where these price rises are unsustainable Oil is twice the price it was last April ($65 to $130). Kerosene for heating is between x3 and x4 what it was last April. Even allowing for seasonal demand someone's taking the piss.
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Post by superjw on Mar 8, 2022 14:05:20 GMT
Difficult to see past some of the media fearmongering right now, but whatever happens we are in for a really tough few years. There will come a point where these price rises are unsustainable Oil is twice the price it was last April ($65 to $130). Kerosene for heating is between x3 and x4 what it was last April. Even allowing for seasonal demand someone's taking the piss. The speed of these rises is what is scary as well isn't it, I agree that the average person is being taken for a ride here. I've seen in sky news that gas price is moving up towards £8 a therm, it's insanity. Energy regulators are predicting this to be the worst energy hit in history. I really don't know how long it can go on for before this all boils over with people. If people can't afford to put the lights on or get to work, there's going to be a lot of unrest.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Mar 8, 2022 14:22:21 GMT
Oil is twice the price it was last April ($65 to $130). Kerosene for heating is between x3 and x4 what it was last April. Even allowing for seasonal demand someone's taking the piss. The speed of these rises is what is scary as well isn't it, I agree that the average person is being taken for a ride here. I've seen in sky news that gas price is moving up towards £8 a therm, it's insanity. Energy regulators are predicting this to be the worst energy hit in history. I really don't know how long it can go on for before this all boils over with people. If people can't afford to put the lights on or get to work, there's going to be a lot of unrest. I agree - it has the potential to get very messy indeed. People will no doubt have their own particular bogeyman as to what's behind it but if living standards start to drop for the majority and there's no end in sight then you can see the simmering pot boiling over into one seething cauldron of resentment.
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Post by andystokey on Mar 8, 2022 14:43:47 GMT
The speed of these rises is what is scary as well isn't it, I agree that the average person is being taken for a ride here. I've seen in sky news that gas price is moving up towards £8 a therm, it's insanity. Energy regulators are predicting this to be the worst energy hit in history. I really don't know how long it can go on for before this all boils over with people. If people can't afford to put the lights on or get to work, there's going to be a lot of unrest. I agree - it has the potential to get very messy indeed. People will no doubt have their own particular bogeyman as to what's behind it but if living standards start to drop for the majority and there's no end in sight then you can see the simmering pot boiling over into one seething cauldron of resentment. No one in the media has mentioned pensioners on oil. No price cap, no council tax help, no alternative. Over 1M households (not people) are not on the gas network in the UK.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 8, 2022 14:58:47 GMT
First of all we have to look at the reasons why there's a price cap in the first place. It was done because energy companies were making massive profits, which resulted in exorbitant payouts to shareholders, especially foreign ones, and not enough investment in the industry. Then let's look at what the government have done over the last decade or so. They had the choice to nationalise the industry but chose not to, instead, opening the market to more suppliers to bring the price down on a competitive basis. Although I would have preferred the former choice, I'm not going to knock them for opening the market to competition once they'd decided not to nationalise. It worked and has been responsible for the price of energy being kept at a reasonable level. (Responsible capitalism can work.) So why the current situation? Here's a good link to explain why we are where we are. ExplanationThis is why I have always been of the opinion that all social engineering projects should remain in government hands and not be subject to a free market economy. In those I include energy, water, transport, health, and education. Once you've secured the basic elements that keep a society running, then by all means involve a free market economy. OS. Spot on. Couldn't agree more. There is absolutely no reason why this approach couldn't succeed, other than an ideological reluctance within this country. How do I know this? Because just such a mixed economy already works like this in countries in northern Europe, Scandinavia etc where public and private ownership is much more interwoven, such as private rail companies wholly owned by regional government. Unfortunately, the Ayn Rand style ideology that has been prominent in this country for the last four and a bit decades insists on lowest possible taxation, free markets, de-regulation and minimal government 'interference'. Which would be fine if it was just a corner shop going bust as a result, but when it's something that potentially affects all of us, governments (taxpayers) are inevitably required to clean up the mess. Which is nothing if not ironic, given their 'unrequired' status previously! If you want to see where that approach leads, look no further than the 2008 financial crash and decade of subsequent austerity.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Mar 8, 2022 15:03:01 GMT
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Post by teenagefanclub on Mar 9, 2022 18:17:58 GMT
Anyone had the customer loyalty email from octopus energy today? Was going to ring them to check if I need to do anything to get the discount as email isn’t clear but customer service closes at 5pm.
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Post by salopstick on Mar 9, 2022 18:46:10 GMT
Trump was vilified as this nazi type but he said from the start especially the EU funding putin by their over reliance on Russian oil and gas whilst not wanting to contribute more to NATO
If anyone can say I told you so
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Post by whatsashig on Mar 9, 2022 19:46:54 GMT
Paraffin🤷♂️
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 9, 2022 20:26:54 GMT
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