|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 15, 2022 8:38:19 GMT
I don't think it is even technically, given it represented no jump in our league position and little visible evidence of things turning round anytime soon. Whether they were happy with it or not they certainly thought it was 'acceptable'. Or maybe after two disastrous short term appointments they want to give the manager the full term of his contract before judging whether we have made progress or not? They should have said that then, rather than suggesting getting two points more than last season represents progress
|
|
|
Post by mickstupp on Jun 15, 2022 8:39:16 GMT
I haven’t seen anyone post anything of the sort. Who has said that last seasons final position was acceptable? Crouchpotato, for one. Look at the Michael O'Neill thread, you'll see a few. I think you’re confusing acceptable with acceptance.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 15, 2022 8:44:19 GMT
Crouchpotato, for one. Look at the Michael O'Neill thread, you'll see a few. I think you’re confusing acceptable with acceptance. I'm really not, having seen the actual posts.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 15, 2022 9:41:06 GMT
Or maybe after two disastrous short term appointments they want to give the manager the full term of his contract before judging whether we have made progress or not? They should have said that then, rather than suggesting getting two points more than last season represents progress Well it is progress from a points perspective. 56/60/62 pts from the last 3 seasons. It may not be the progress we all want but it's progress nevertheless........
|
|
|
Post by bayernoatcake on Jun 15, 2022 9:50:10 GMT
I think you’re confusing acceptable with acceptance. I'm really not, having seen the actual posts. Yup. The gall to even fucking argue it.
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 15, 2022 9:53:19 GMT
They should have said that then, rather than suggesting getting two points more than last season represents progress Well it is progress from a points perspective. 56/60/62 pts from the last 3 seasons. It may not be the progress we all want but it's progress nevertheless........ It's two draws' worth of progress. It's more points than we've got the previous season, mathematically, but it's infinitesimal, to the point of being embarrassing to mention it as an endorsement of the manager, which is the context it was cited in.
|
|
|
Post by prestwichpotter on Jun 15, 2022 10:04:24 GMT
Well it is progress from a points perspective. 56/60/62 pts from the last 3 seasons. It may not be the progress we all want but it's progress nevertheless........ It's two draws' worth of progress. It's more points than we've got the previous season, mathematically, but it's infinitesimal, to the point of being embarrassing to mention it as an endorsement of the manager, which is the context it was cited in. But it's progress despite you arguing against it. And the fans yardstick for progress is simply on the pitch, the points are indisputable the way we're playing is of course open to debate. In the background the club hierarchy has other ways of measuring progress, whether that be financially, in terms of academy players coming through, is the dressing room a harmonious one, do they feel we have a more robust model to move forward or whatever else they may be? They will be weighing up the cost and overhaul of bringing in a whole new management team and potentially another batch of players, against keeping MON in a job because they still feel the other ways we're progressing will come together to improve us on the pitch. It's a judgement call, I'm fairly comfortable with giving MON one more season (or at least until the World Cup break if we need to reassess).
|
|
|
Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jun 15, 2022 10:11:46 GMT
It's two draws' worth of progress. It's more points than we've got the previous season, mathematically, but it's infinitesimal, to the point of being embarrassing to mention it as an endorsement of the manager, which is the context it was cited in. But it's progress despite you arguing against it. And the fans yardstick for progress is simply on the pitch, the points are indisputable the way we're playing is of course open to debate. In the background the club hierarchy has other ways of measuring progress, whether that be financially, in terms of academy players coming through, is the dressing room a harmonious one, do they feel we have a more robust model to move forward or whatever else they may be? They will be weighing up the cost and overhaul of bringing in a whole new management team and potentially another batch of players, against keeping MON in a job because they still feel the other ways we're progressing will come together to improve us on the pitch. It's a judgement call, I'm fairly comfortable with giving MON one more season (or at least until the World Cup break if we need to reassess). It's only in the most uselessly pedantic technical sense of the term though isn't it, essentially to the point of being meaningless? We could finish 15th next season with 63 points and using that logic it would still represent 'progress' in the same way. The other factors you mention are far more relevant and up for debate but those aren't the arguments that were being made.
|
|
|
Post by Lakeland Potter on Jun 15, 2022 10:17:32 GMT
Campbell played some of his best stuff on the left, just before his injury. I don't think he sees himself as a left winger though and his ego always seems a bit bruised when he's put out on the wing. He was poor on the left wing because couldn’t execute the two basic function: 1. Get to the by-line and put in a cross and 2. Cut to his right shoot (he’s strongly left footed. He’s striker who can also play on the right and cut to his left and shoot. MON played Brown on the right, Maja in the middle and brought Campbell as a sub on the left - it didn’t work. Brown was less effective, Campbell was poor and Maja was mostly dreadful. He was strongly left footed when he first broke into the first team but I'd say he was pretty much two footed by the time of his injury. In the good run of form before his injury he scored and got assists with BOTH feet with little bias in favour of his left for crossing, passing or shooting.
|
|
|
Post by FranktheRabbit on Jun 15, 2022 12:18:23 GMT
Good bit of business with Baker. Definitely the best player we've signed since being in the Championship Not Nick Powell? Edit: I do really like Baker, but he isn't a patch on Powell.
|
|
|
Post by stantheman on Jun 15, 2022 13:06:39 GMT
Good bit of business with Baker. Definitely the best player we've signed since being in the Championship Not Nick Powell? Edit: I do really like Baker, but he isn't a patch on Powell. When Powell is fit, admittedly he's quality. But too unreliable in terms of starting games. Plus Baker can take a penalty/set piece, so him before Powell for me. Plus - Baker's Dad is Audley Baker, a 6 time world powerlifting champion!
|
|
|
Post by SuperRickyFuller on Jun 15, 2022 14:14:17 GMT
Not Nick Powell? Edit: I do really like Baker, but he isn't a patch on Powell. When Powell is fit, admittedly he's quality. But too unreliable in terms of starting games. Not this again, and for a second time on this thread. Is it Groundhog Day on here?
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Jun 15, 2022 14:44:56 GMT
Or maybe after two disastrous short term appointments they want to give the manager the full term of his contract before judging whether we have made progress or not? They should have said that then, rather than suggesting getting two points more than last season represents progress I missed the quotes, did they just say the two points is progress? Or were they counting financial things too? Like "we got more points and we're no longer definitely beyond fucked for money" is something I could see counting.
|
|
|
Post by spitthedog on Jun 15, 2022 20:30:40 GMT
Fantastic news re: Baker. Very positive. I was certain someone would come in for him, they may still do but at least we will get some decent money for him if so.
|
|
|
Post by jokker on Jun 16, 2022 15:30:01 GMT
They have a new manager. Would be strange if he hadn't been promised funds. But if not them, another club will realise Baker's immense potential and will beat themselves up over not signing him on a relatice free. They'll sign him on our cut prise and sell him on with a huge profit a year from now. Kompany hasn't impressed with Anderlecht he's lucky to get a Championship job. Burnley have a £60m bill this summer and if they don't go up have another £60m next summer Mee and Tarkovski leaving on free transfers They badly need top dollar for Collins What presumably they will get is Man City youngsters on loan however Doyle and Mcatee lined up for Huddersfield already, Delap for Southampton Could be very challenging season for Burnley As for Baker we will see but not seen any noise te clubs interested in him atm, think we are OK there this summer at least I wouldn't take the troubles at Anderlecht, which has been on a downward spiral for years, as indication that he can't manage in England. He's only 36 which means he's still learning and may only come into his own after a couple of years managing at this level. If we had had to judge O'Neill the same way you're judging Kompany, O'Neill would never have made it to the negotiating table, let alone run an NI team.
|
|
|
Post by lordb on Jun 16, 2022 16:31:40 GMT
Kompany hasn't impressed with Anderlecht he's lucky to get a Championship job. Burnley have a £60m bill this summer and if they don't go up have another £60m next summer Mee and Tarkovski leaving on free transfers They badly need top dollar for Collins What presumably they will get is Man City youngsters on loan however Doyle and Mcatee lined up for Huddersfield already, Delap for Southampton Could be very challenging season for Burnley As for Baker we will see but not seen any noise te clubs interested in him atm, think we are OK there this summer at least I wouldn't take the troubles at Anderlecht, which has been on a downward spiral for years, as indication that he can't manage in England. He's only 36 which means he's still learning and may only come into his own after a couple of years managing at this level. If we had had to judge O'Neill the same way you're judging Kompany, O'Neill would never have made it to the negotiating table, let alone run an NI team. Not saying he can't manage in England but equally can't say he's getting the job on the back of his record there either O'Neill had an excellent record with NIrealnd, exceeded their expectations massively Expectations at Anderlecht will always be top two as a minimum If we had changed managers this summer, and I think we should have done, wouldn't have wanted Kompany
|
|
|
Post by Gary Hackett on Jun 17, 2022 9:46:50 GMT
Not Nick Powell? Edit: I do really like Baker, but he isn't a patch on Powell. When Powell is fit, admittedly he's quality. But too unreliable in terms of starting games. Plus Baker can take a penalty/set piece, so him before Powell for me. Plus - Baker's Dad is Audley Baker, a 6 time world powerlifting champion! He broke his leg FFS, before that he was a regular starter. Stop spouting shit.
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Jun 18, 2022 10:12:00 GMT
When Powell is fit, admittedly he's quality. But too unreliable in terms of starting games. Plus Baker can take a penalty/set piece, so him before Powell for me. Plus - Baker's Dad is Audley Baker, a 6 time world powerlifting champion! He broke his leg FFS, before that he was a regular starter. Stop spouting shit. I think people should take look at our home form, league position and win rate before that injury.
|
|
|
Post by stantheman on Jul 5, 2022 10:32:55 GMT
When Powell is fit, admittedly he's quality. But too unreliable in terms of starting games. Plus Baker can take a penalty/set piece, so him before Powell for me. Plus - Baker's Dad is Audley Baker, a 6 time world powerlifting champion! He broke his leg FFS, before that he was a regular starter. Stop spouting shit. Still spouting shit?
|
|
|
Post by a on Jul 5, 2022 10:49:54 GMT
He broke his leg FFS, before that he was a regular starter. Stop spouting shit. I think people should take look at our home form, league position and win rate before that injury. We seem to lose one or maybe two key players then fall off a cliff. Is that the same for all sides? Genuine question btw
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Jul 5, 2022 11:22:40 GMT
I think people should take look at our home form, league position and win rate before that injury. We seem to lose one or maybe two key players then fall off a cliff. Is that the same for all sides? Genuine question btw Not sure, but I’d be surprised if Fulham would have walked the league like they did without Mitrovic and Wilson. We are a playoff contender when all are fit, but so are about 10 or so other teams. When you lose those two players (Souttar, Powell + Campbell to be honest) last season, then i don’t think it’s wholly surprising to see us move from 4th/5th to the bottom of that pile of playoff contenders.
|
|
|
Post by dirtclod on Jul 5, 2022 15:57:24 GMT
Agree, it appears that most teams are 1-2 players getting injured away from that cliff. Otherwise, you're looking at violating FFP, trying to build a "deep" squad.
|
|
|
Post by scfc75 on Jul 5, 2022 16:07:05 GMT
We seem to lose one or maybe two key players then fall off a cliff. Is that the same for all sides? Genuine question btw Not sure, but I’d be surprised if Fulham would have walked the league like they did without Mitrovic and Wilson. We are a playoff contender when all are fit, but so are about 10 or so other teams. When you lose those two players (Souttar, Powell + Campbell to be honest) last season, then i don’t think it’s wholly surprising to see us move from 4th/5th to the bottom of that pile of playoff contenders. I wouldn’t say Fulham walked the league. They were certainly comfortable but they had the lowest points total of any champion since 2015, and their points total wouldn’t have got them auto promotion at all in 2 of the previous 5 seasons. Probably says a lot about the quality of the league last season.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Jul 5, 2022 16:57:02 GMT
Not sure, but I’d be surprised if Fulham would have walked the league like they did without Mitrovic and Wilson. We are a playoff contender when all are fit, but so are about 10 or so other teams. When you lose those two players (Souttar, Powell + Campbell to be honest) last season, then i don’t think it’s wholly surprising to see us move from 4th/5th to the bottom of that pile of playoff contenders. I wouldn’t say Fulham walked the league. They were certainly comfortable but they had the lowest points total of any champion since 2015, and their points total wouldn’t have got them auto promotion at all in 2 of the previous 5 seasons. Probably says a lot about the quality of the league last season. I got the feeling from watching some of their games across the season that they knew it was pretty much finished about 10 games before the end and went into auto-pilot. However, even if they didn’t, that just adds to my point. They likely wouldn’t have been promoted without their most expensive player and their best creator. “It’s a team game” is true to an extent, but the margins are really small in this division. Two long-term injuries to key players can make all the difference. Injuries to random team players are much less important. Baker has a hell of a job to do this season. He will have the weight of expectation to get as many goals as he did last year (where he dramatically overachieved). He still won’t have Powell to help drag defenders out of position, nor (as yet) a target man to create space for his late runs.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2022 17:07:22 GMT
There is no way Baker will keep up the scoring rate of last season and we shouldn't expect him to. He had a real purple patch.
If he gets 10 for the season I think he will have done well from centre mid unless we get a load of pens or he plays as a 10 in the absence of Powell and even then 10 would be a decent return.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Jul 5, 2022 17:54:45 GMT
There is no way Baker will keep up the scoring rate of last season and we shouldn't expect him to. He had a real purple patch. If he gets 10 for the season I think he will have done well from centre mid unless we get a load of pens or he plays as a 10 in the absence of Powell and even then 10 would be a decent return. Considering that our highest scorer since coming down has been Brown on 12 (13?), id say that 10 would be a remarkable achievement as well.
|
|
|
Post by apb1 on Jul 5, 2022 20:29:01 GMT
|
|
|
Post by Batfink on Jul 5, 2022 20:30:34 GMT
I wonder what goes in a purple bin?
|
|
|
Post by walrus on Jul 5, 2022 21:43:44 GMT
There is no way Baker will keep up the scoring rate of last season and we shouldn't expect him to. He had a real purple patch. If he gets 10 for the season I think he will have done well from centre mid unless we get a load of pens or he plays as a 10 in the absence of Powell and even then 10 would be a decent return. Considering that our highest scorer since coming down has been Brown on 12 (13?), id say that 10 would be a remarkable achievement as well. Brown got 14. 13 league and one FA Cup. Both Powell and Clucas have managed double figures from midfield so it’s definitely achievable in a 46 game season for Baker.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Jul 5, 2022 22:43:03 GMT
Considering that our highest scorer since coming down has been Brown on 12 (13?), id say that 10 would be a remarkable achievement as well. Brown got 14. 13 league and one FA Cup. Both Powell and Clucas have managed double figures from midfield so it’s definitely achievable in a 46 game season for Baker. It’s achievable, but Powell is a player whose more regularly done that. Clucas had a fluke season and not come close since. Baker’s game wasn’t goals before he came here and I hazard a guess that it’s going to return closer to that next season.
|
|