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Post by FullerMagic on Sept 23, 2021 8:26:46 GMT
It seems very scary stuff for Derby fans.. theathletic.com/2837909/2021/09/21/derbys-admin-bomb-what-now-for-players-rooney-and-the-club-can-it-survive/At times like these, when the sky is on fire and cracks are opening underneath you, it is important to remember that things could be worse and history suggests you will trade solvently again. But right now, the news is bleak for everybody associated with Derby County and there is no point sugarcoating it. Since Friday night’s memo about the coming apocalypse, when Derby announced the club and all the subsidiary companies intended to appoint administrators, The Athletic has been speaking to people with knowledge of the club’s financial position and they have not been very upbeat. “It’s 50/50 they get liquidated,” said one source, while another said: “I can’t see how they get out of this — they’re fucked.” The picture they painted in such depressing tones was one of a club that is worth less than nothing. Much less. They said any prospective buyer would need to shell out more than £50 million simply clearing Derby’s debts before spending a penny on rebuilding the club and putting a competitive team on the park. This is because the club has football creditors, who must be paid up to £10 million in full, as well as secured debt of £20 million owed to an American private equity firm and a tax bill of almost £30 million. Derby declined to comment when contacted by The Athletic. Until late last year, that last bill would have not have been such a cause for alarm to a bidder as it would have been added to the pile of unsecured debt and paid off with pennies in the pound. HM Revenue and Customs has been complaining about that for years and the government’s post-pandemic need for rebalancing its books meant somebody in power finally heard the taxman’s pleas. The Finance Act 2020 gave tax debt preferential status in insolvency cases. At least two-thirds of Derby’s tax arrears must now be settled in full, just like the money they still owe to other football clubs. Morris still has the money though doesn't he ? Yeah at the end of it he might be worth £150m instead of £200m or £50m instead of £100m if he paid it all off but if they do go bump it's not going to be a nice experience for him and his family still living locally, I'd pay it off and put a clause in the sale that if they get into the Premier he gets £5m or £10m a season back or something. Yeah - he seems to have made the decision to just wash his hands of it and walk away, regardless of the consequences. They were saying on that Derby podcast that Covid hasn't really hit him financially and he still seems to be worth about half a billion. His legacy is going to be terrible, especially when you think he originally sold himself as the local Derby fan done good coming to lead them to the Prem (although apparently it was always his intention to get them in the Prem and immediately flip them for a profit)
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 23, 2021 8:41:06 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 23, 2021 13:11:17 GMT
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 23, 2021 13:27:58 GMT
Just listening to local radio around these parts and they had Rooney’s press conference live,one interesting/ controversial point was about the extra points deduction and if they get it🤔 Rooney intimating that if the extra points are deducted he’d have to seriously think about playing the youngsters in every game to get them used to next season and what’s ahead.Then saying I’m sure the EFL don’t want the integrity of the championship being questioned if I do this🤔😄After all that’s gone off I find that comment astonishing although part of me thinks he’s just trying to send the EFL a few messages on this matter.Surely the 12 points for Admin won’t be their only punishment?
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 23, 2021 14:14:20 GMT
Morris still has the money though doesn't he ? Yeah at the end of it he might be worth £150m instead of £200m or £50m instead of £100m if he paid it all off but if they do go bump it's not going to be a nice experience for him and his family still living locally, I'd pay it off and put a clause in the sale that if they get into the Premier he gets £5m or £10m a season back or something. Yeah - he seems to have made the decision to just wash his hands of it and walk away, regardless of the consequences. They were saying on that Derby podcast that Covid hasn't really hit him financially and he still seems to be worth about half a billion. His legacy is going to be terrible, especially when you think he originally sold himself as the local Derby fan done good coming to lead them to the Prem (although apparently it was always his intention to get them in the Prem and immediately flip them for a profit) Yes I found the fan podcast more informative than the radio derby one, whether he is still worth so much after his claims of losing 200m I don't know but clearly not even close to losing everything as he claimed.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 23, 2021 14:22:32 GMT
Just listening to local radio around these parts and they had Rooney’s press conference live,one interesting/ controversial point was about the extra points deduction and if they get it🤔 Rooney intimating that if the extra points are deducted he’d have to seriously think about playing the youngsters in every game to get them used to next season and what’s ahead.Then saying I’m sure the EFL don’t want the integrity of the championship being questioned if I do this🤔😄After all that’s gone off I find that comment astonishing although part of me thinks he’s just trying to send the EFL a few messages on this matter.Surely the 12 points for Admin won’t be their only punishment? I think they are getting ahead of themselves talking about next season, as soon as the January window opens Bird, Sibley, Knight, Buchannon and anyone else worth anything will be sold just to pay the bills looking at below tweet, Admin want the deal closed by Jan 2022 and thats because the window opens then so if there is no sale agreed there are looking at a liquidation and the players are the clubs only assets as they dont own the ground or training ground if players aren't sold in January they somehow have to fund the club till May. Looks pretty grim to me if there is no buyer or a change of heart by Morris.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 23, 2021 14:27:56 GMT
Just listening to local radio around these parts and they had Rooney’s press conference live,one interesting/ controversial point was about the extra points deduction and if they get it🤔 Rooney intimating that if the extra points are deducted he’d have to seriously think about playing the youngsters in every game to get them used to next season and what’s ahead.Then saying I’m sure the EFL don’t want the integrity of the championship being questioned if I do this🤔😄After all that’s gone off I find that comment astonishing although part of me thinks he’s just trying to send the EFL a few messages on this matter.Surely the 12 points for Admin won’t be their only punishment? I think they are getting ahead of themselves talking about next season, as soon as the January window opens Bird, Sibley, Knight, Buchannon and anyone else worth anything will be sold just to pay the bills looking at below tweet, Admin want the deal closed by Jan 2022 and thats because the window opens then so if there is no sale agreed there are looking at a liquidation and the players are the clubs only assets as they dont own the ground or training ground if players aren't sold in January they somehow have to fund the club till May. Looks pretty grim to me if there is no buyer or a change of heart by Morris. Rooney believes they have a great chance of staying up with -12 but with the extra 9 he accepted its pretty much impossible. The administrators said today it wouldn’t affect the playing staff at this stage but obviously come January that’s a different matter like you say
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Post by dirtclod on Sept 23, 2021 14:41:08 GMT
I wonder if Morris can even AFFORD to have a change of heart? I've read he's somewhere North of 200 million in the hole already. Plus, the man apparently is also battling health issues.
I feel for the Derby fans, many of whom have seen this coming for a while but were powerless to stop the club from its own stupidity. The club itself can f*** off - they got "cute" and it backfired.
Before I fire up the Sympathy Train - it's Derby, they are far more than equipped to pull off a "phoenix club" than many other cities.
But I must say this: Wayne Rooney, for all his foolishness has proven to be a real stayer. Yes he has financial incentive to do so, but he also has the wealth to just walk away and he hasn't. Trying to manage as he played - a hard-headed, stubborn "never say die" soldier convincing others to go to war with him. He signed up to manage Derby and that's what he's doing. Good on you Wayne. (Probably never get another chance to say THAT)
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 23, 2021 15:16:12 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 23, 2021 15:21:57 GMT
I wonder if Morris can even AFFORD to have a change of heart? I've read he's somewhere North of 200 million in the hole already. Plus, the man apparently is also battling health issues. I feel for the Derby fans, many of whom have seen this coming for a while but were powerless to stop the club from its own stupidity. The club itself can f*** off - they got "cute" and it backfired. Before I fire up the Sympathy Train - it's Derby, they are far more than equipped to pull off a "phoenix club" than many other cities. But I must say this: Wayne Rooney, for all his foolishness has proven to be a real stayer. Yes he has financial incentive to do so, but he also has the wealth to just walk away and he hasn't. Trying to manage as he played - a hard-headed, stubborn "never say die" soldier convincing others to go to war with him. He signed up to manage Derby and that's what he's doing. Good on you Wayne. (Probably never get another chance to say THAT) Derby going down for sporting reasons amuses me greatly, I get absolutely no joy from them going into administration and all the staff involved in the day to day running getting laid off. They have me absolutely sympathy in that sense……
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 23, 2021 16:02:44 GMT
ASDA, Tesco, Lidl, Morrisons, Aldi & Sainsbury's at a guess.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 23, 2021 16:41:21 GMT
I think they are getting ahead of themselves talking about next season, as soon as the January window opens Bird, Sibley, Knight, Buchannon and anyone else worth anything will be sold just to pay the bills looking at below tweet, Admin want the deal closed by Jan 2022 and thats because the window opens then so if there is no sale agreed there are looking at a liquidation and the players are the clubs only assets as they dont own the ground or training ground if players aren't sold in January they somehow have to fund the club till May. Looks pretty grim to me if there is no buyer or a change of heart by Morris. Rooney believes they have a great chance of staying up with -12 but with the extra 9 he accepted its pretty much impossible. The administrators said today it wouldn’t affect the playing staff at this stage but obviously come January that’s a different matter like you say I read somewhere players and Rooney are being asked to accept deferrals some like Jaigelka and Davies only have contracts till January. Someone tweeting to Nixon was also saying administrators are taking out short term loans to cover player wages and their fees no doubt, so if Morris as he claims was putting in 1.5-2m a month thats 6m to get to january, maybe a bit less if they cut costs but then add in their fees thats probably most of the money they get from player sales spent already.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 23, 2021 17:38:27 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Sept 23, 2021 18:01:13 GMT
Sad times. I don’t think anyone wants to see a famous old club go through this
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Post by thepottypotter on Sept 23, 2021 19:49:57 GMT
It's only been 8 months since Rooney was appointed Derby manager and it looks like he has aged 30 years in that time! The stress must be unreal. My heart goes out to him, the club and all the supporters. I can't imagine a worse situation to be in. Derby FC articleBBC article
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 19:53:02 GMT
Its shocking when clubs of Derby's stature can go completely bust. It sounds like it could be tight with regards to their future existence really, especially if they are unable to sign anyone and all of their players are on short-term contracts.
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Post by march4 on Sept 23, 2021 19:55:55 GMT
I don’t like to see this happen to one of England’s most famous and historic clubs.
It is imperative they don’t go out of existence although I can see them slipping to the 4th division before they start to climb again.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 23, 2021 19:58:31 GMT
It's only been 8 months since Rooney was appointed Derby manager and it looks like he has aged 30 years in that time! The stress must be unreal. My heart goes out to him, the club and all the supporters. I can't imagine a worse situation to be in. Derby FC articleBBC articleWell at least he’s starting to look like the slappers he shags
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 20:12:09 GMT
I don’t like to see this happen to one of England’s most famous and historic clubs. It is imperative they don’t go out of existence although I can see them slipping to the 4th division before they start to climb again. I don't think that would ever happen. Bloody foreign owners like Mel Morris
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Post by march4 on Sept 23, 2021 20:27:19 GMT
I don’t like to see this happen to one of England’s most famous and historic clubs. It is imperative they don’t go out of existence although I can see them slipping to the 4th division before they start to climb again. I don't think that would ever happen. Bloody foreign owners like Mel Morris It happened to Wolves. Somehow they survived but it was a rocky ride for a while in the 4th Division.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 20:37:08 GMT
I don't think that would ever happen. Bloody foreign owners like Mel Morris It happened to Wolves. Somehow they survived but it was a rocky ride for a while in the 4th Division. True but football a far more global brand these days and 80s was it or l90s Wolves? Let's not forget Chelsea and later Boro had similar then. Seems a bit of interest in Derby so hopefully all will be ok in the long run as no one I'm sure would like to see a club go under. I remember a consortium buying Wolves, wasn't Derek Dougan involved? Seem to remember him stood amongst the fans when they survived and were the game on TV
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Post by Northy on Sept 23, 2021 20:42:23 GMT
I don't think that would ever happen. Bloody foreign owners like Mel Morris It happened to Wolves. Somehow they survived but it was a rocky ride for a while in the 4th Division. Bolton as well?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2021 20:44:28 GMT
It happened to Wolves. Somehow they survived but it was a rocky ride for a while in the 4th Division. Bolton as well? And Dunmore Utd in Murphy's Mob
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Post by lordb on Sept 23, 2021 21:29:13 GMT
It happened to Wolves. Somehow they survived but it was a rocky ride for a while in the 4th Division. Bolton as well? Swansea,Hull, Sheffield United (if you go back enough), Portsmouth, Huddersfield, Cardiff, all had a go at Div 4/League 2 As well as Wolves, Bolton and Burnley
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Post by march4 on Sept 23, 2021 22:44:42 GMT
Swansea,Hull, Sheffield United (if you go back enough), Portsmouth, Huddersfield, Cardiff, all had a go at Div 4/League 2 As well as Wolves, Bolton and Burnley I can see Derby down there in a couple of years.
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Post by iancransonsknees on Sept 24, 2021 5:21:50 GMT
Swansea,Hull, Sheffield United (if you go back enough), Portsmouth, Huddersfield, Cardiff, all had a go at Div 4/League 2 As well as Wolves, Bolton and Burnley I can see Derby down there in a couple of years. Swansea, Hull and Bournemouth all nearly had the gates locked on them in division 2 in recent memory. It'll need that to happen to Derby for any substantial change to be made and it'll happen again, Covid or no Covid.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 24, 2021 6:02:03 GMT
It wasn’t that long ago Leicester we’re in the old third division in administration Leaving loads of local people out of pocket
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2021 6:38:56 GMT
A couple of other former bottom division clubs - Brighton had financial problems and were perennial lower league strugglers and had that awful Withdean Stadium for a while. Coventry have been in a right mess financially and have had long term issues about their "home" ground but have somehow turned it round.
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Post by nottsover60 on Sept 24, 2021 7:34:46 GMT
I hope Middlesborough never find themselves down there - they are really turning the screw. I can't see what they are hoping to achieve at the moment apart from putting a fellow member of the league out of business all because Derby beat them to the playoffs a few seasons back when Middlesborough thought they were breaking FFP. If you really want to take a club to court for cheating their way out of the Championship go after a team now in the Premier like Leicester, Leeds, Wolves or Villa. Or even I'm pretty sure you'd find Bournemouth, Watford or Brighton weren't playing fair either. (Allegedly). I can also remember Vale fans fuming about the money Brentford were spending when they were similar clubs in the same division. The same as Bury but unfortunately they were the unlucky ones.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Sept 24, 2021 7:55:49 GMT
I hope Middlesborough never find themselves down there - they are really turning the screw. I can't see what they are hoping to achieve at the moment apart from putting a fellow member of the league out of business all because Derby beat them to the playoffs a few seasons back when Middlesborough thought they were breaking FFP. If you really want to take a club to court for cheating their way out of the Championship go after a team now in the Premier like Leicester, Leeds, Wolves or Villa. Or even I'm pretty sure you'd find Bournemouth, Watford or Brighton weren't playing fair either. (Allegedly). I can also remember Vale fans fuming about the money Brentford were spending when they were similar clubs in the same division. The same as Bury but unfortunately they were the unlucky ones. I think you might be a bit pissed off if you were Steve Gibson, who always seems like he plays by the rules, getting turned over by a team you perceive to be cheating with a ‘Flash Harry’ chairman and stopped from reaching the land of plenty. It potentially cost Middlesbrough hundreds of millions. Just off at a tangent anyone know what St Peters views on the Derby situation are? Has he expressed them publicly?
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