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Post by roylandstoke on Mar 3, 2021 23:15:58 GMT
Clarke showed his inexperience being caught on the wrong side of the player and trying to make a challenge when it was clear the Swansea player was going to fall down at any opportunity but he made it worse by his puppy dog longing look at the referee giving the referee a decision to make instead of just playing on as if nothing had happened. Clarke's reaction made the situation far worse Clarke did not make a challenge. Naughton dived, There was no contact.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 3, 2021 23:16:04 GMT
I'm not saying Gunn is at fault. I'm saying its frustrating. We've conceded from our last 45 penalties taken in the regular 90 minutes. Our keeper must have gone the wrong way on at least 40 of them. Its beyond embarrassing. And all the more galling given the amount we miss Absofuckinglutely
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Post by onionman on Mar 3, 2021 23:16:11 GMT
you don't see many goalkeepers do that though to be fair. It doesn't seem to be that straightforward. That guy always takes his penalties like that and keepers rarely save them. I'm not saying Gunn is at fault. I'm saying its frustrating. We've conceded from our last 45 penalties taken in the regular 90 minutes. Our keeper must have gone the wrong way on at least 40 of them. Its beyond embarrassing. It’s like a recurring dream. You know what’s going to happen before it even happens, but there’s nothing you can do to stop it. We could have Lev Yashin in goal, and he would still flop slowly and pathetically to his left as Dave Bamber pea rolls his penalty down the middle of the goal at 1 mile per hour and into the back of the net.
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Post by LankyPotter on Mar 3, 2021 23:18:29 GMT
You react and its already in the goal? Not how Ayew takes them they aren't. Completely different proposition than facing up to a Kane type penalty. Agreed. But you still have to pick a side. If he stays absolutely dead centre of the goal he doesn’t save it.
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Post by PotteringThrough on Mar 3, 2021 23:21:02 GMT
Ok, I don’t have sky sports nor a season ticket but I am a football fan, where do I fall into your comments? You said: It amuses me when Football Fans are shocked that cheating is rewarded. It’s literally what you support by giving your Money every week. Followed by: If you contribute towards it in the form of Sky and Season Tickets you endorse it Presumably I’m ok to complain? Or do you need to have sky sports or a season ticket to be a football fan? Cheating has long been a factor in football. For example, as an intelligent football fan, have you ever heard of the hand of god incident? Diving isn’t just a recent thing, or a thing associated with Sky - it happened before - an an intelligent football fan have you ever heard of a footballer called Francis Lee? That said I think I understand your point now, I still think it’s harsh to suggest it’s endorsing it - say you’ve been a season ticket holder for 50 years, it’s a big part of you and your life it’s not fair to suggest they endorse it - which is probably why you added the millennial bit in your original post. But then that becomes ageist and suggests that only older fans, pre-sky, do not endorse cheating and diving. People will do what they can to watch their team - that doesn’t mean they endorse it. Yeah, maybe put up and accept it but not endorse. The language used, the word endorse, is my issue. Thats a lot of reply. Look, No fan or Supporter of Modern Football should complain about cheating, regardless of whether they contribute financially or not. They surely, by now know it is an “accepted” (by the authorities) method of gaining an advantage in the sport. Agreed? To that end, you know before the match that it is an accepted method of gaining an advantage and winning matches. Nothing is done post incident to punish the act, thus it is inevitable. So why the outrage? I don’t get it. You won’t change anything by your outrage. It is now part of the game. That’s why many people have rejected professional football in favour of watching local football only. Be outraged at the incompetency of the referee but not the act of diving or cheating. As long as we agree it’s not “endorsing” it. As I said, hand of god - people are still pissed about that, I’d imagine there’s a German somewhere who talks about the ball not crossing the line in ‘66. This outrage is part of the experience as well - crikey, we’ve even got VAR causing arguments. I See your point though - cheating is acceptable to the authorities to a point (Suarez - no biting or racism etc.) and as fans we know this. We will get decisions for us at some point and it won’t be as bad. I think the important bit is if it does cause you outrage then you get it out and get over it.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 3, 2021 23:21:58 GMT
Not how Ayew takes them they aren't. Completely different proposition than facing up to a Kane type penalty. Agreed. But you still have to pick a side. If he stays absolutely dead centre of the goal he doesn’t save it. You absolutely don't have to pick a side when facing up to Ayew and others who adopt the same approach. You pick your side on the strike. If he sticks ot in the corner, you just say fair play. He rarely, if ever, does. If Gunn waits for him to kick it, reacts to the direction of the ball, he saves it. Simple as. You pick a side when you are guessing. You don't pick a side when you are reacting to the strike.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 3, 2021 23:24:44 GMT
Clarke showed his inexperience being caught on the wrong side of the player and trying to make a challenge when it was clear the Swansea player was going to fall down at any opportunity but he made it worse by his puppy dog longing look at the referee giving the referee a decision to make instead of just playing on as if nothing had happened. Clarke's reaction made the situation far worse Clarke did not make a challenge. Naughton dived, There was no contact. Correct. Clarke deliberately and intentionally avoided contact with the player, in fact made no attempt to challenge. It was 100% a diabolical decision and 100% cheat. As clear cut as you will ever see.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Mar 3, 2021 23:25:33 GMT
Clarke showed his inexperience being caught on the wrong side of the player and trying to make a challenge when it was clear the Swansea player was going to fall down at any opportunity but he made it worse by his puppy dog longing look at the referee giving the referee a decision to make instead of just playing on as if nothing had happened. Clarke's reaction made the situation far worse Clarke did not make a challenge. Naughton dived, There was no contact. MON has said, post match, that the assistant ref didn't see any contact. a) Why didn't the ref consult his assistant who clearly had the best view? b) Why didn't our players ask the ref to consult his assistant?
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 3, 2021 23:26:47 GMT
Agreed. But you still have to pick a side. If he stays absolutely dead centre of the goal he doesn’t save it. You absolutely don't have to pick a side when facing up to Ayew and others who adopt the same approach. You pick your side on the strike. If he sticks ot in the corner, you just say fair play. He rarely, if ever, does. If Gunn waits for him to kick it, reacts to the direction of the ball, he saves it. Simple as. You pick a side when you are guessing. You don't pick a side when you are reacting to the strike. I'm not a goalie but if you wait until the player strikes the ball, can you realistically get down to the ball quick enough to save it if its hit at pace?
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 3, 2021 23:28:21 GMT
Clarke did not make a challenge. Naughton dived, There was no contact. MON has said, post match, that the assistant ref didn't see any contact. a) Why didn't the ref consult his assistant who clearly had the best view? b) Why didn't our players ask the ref to consult his assistant? Our players looked too knackered to argue. I'm really disappointed with their reaction tbh, they should have been going mental. Usually I don't promote but in this case would be well and truly justified.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 3, 2021 23:31:17 GMT
You absolutely don't have to pick a side when facing up to Ayew and others who adopt the same approach. You pick your side on the strike. If he sticks ot in the corner, you just say fair play. He rarely, if ever, does. If Gunn waits for him to kick it, reacts to the direction of the ball, he saves it. Simple as. You pick a side when you are guessing. You don't pick a side when you are reacting to the strike. I'm not a goalie but if you wait until the player strikes the ball, can you realistically get down to the ball quick enough to save it if its hit at pace? Not at pace no but Ayew hits pea rollers. You'll save easily. Staying still and reacting to the shot, on Ayew/Hazard/Pogba/Benteke et al type penalties has to increase your chances of saving it above 50/50. Edit - bear in mind Gunn is 6ft 5 so at stretch he must be 8ft. Unless the ball is right in the corner he has to have a chance of saving if he doesn't guess.
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Post by greenhoff on Mar 3, 2021 23:36:26 GMT
I'm not a goalie but if you wait until the player strikes the ball, can you realistically get down to the ball quick enough to save it if its hit at pace? Not at pace no but Ayew hits pea rollers. You'll save easily. Staying still and reacting to the shot, on Ayew/Hazard/Pogba/Benteke et al type penalties has to increase your chances of saving it above 50/50. Edit - bear in mind Gunn is 6ft 5 so at stretch he must be 8ft. Unless the ball is right in the corner he has to have a chance of saving if he doesn't guess. 100% agree. Most pens are not in the corner anyway. If you stand up and react you'll save a few. If he sticks it in the corner with pace you ain't getting it anyway. Even if you choose the right side
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 3, 2021 23:47:23 GMT
Not at pace no but Ayew hits pea rollers. You'll save easily. Staying still and reacting to the shot, on Ayew/Hazard/Pogba/Benteke et al type penalties has to increase your chances of saving it above 50/50. Edit - bear in mind Gunn is 6ft 5 so at stretch he must be 8ft. Unless the ball is right in the corner he has to have a chance of saving if he doesn't guess. 100% agree. Most pens are not in the corner anyway. If you stand up and react you'll save a few. If he sticks it in the corner with pace you ain't getting it anyway. Even if you choose the right side I think the record is now at 45 consecutive Penalties that have been scored against us. Staying still and reacting to the kick for the next 45 will see us with a better save ratio that's for sure.
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Post by a on Mar 4, 2021 6:25:45 GMT
Can’t believe MON set us up to hit the woodwork twice, negative sod! It’s a good job some of you bulk bought bog roll... Woodwork or Row 69, they don't count unless they hit the net. But O’Neill is being slated for his tactics etc. Suggesting that we set up to not to lose when in fact if those shots that hit the frame had gone in we’d have been comfortable winners. Yet that seems to go out the window when we lose.
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Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Mar 4, 2021 10:25:43 GMT
100% agree. Most pens are not in the corner anyway. If you stand up and react you'll save a few. If he sticks it in the corner with pace you ain't getting it anyway. Even if you choose the right side I think the record is now at 45 consecutive Penalties that have been scored against us. Staying still and reacting to the kick for the next 45 will see us with a better save ratio that's for sure. And how many keepers have we had for those 45 penalties Dave? Whose fault is it that they're not doing what you are suggesting? The keeper coach? The manager? Or is each one just doing what he feels is right at the time? I'm not disagreeing with your central argument, but how's it going to change?
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 4, 2021 10:44:57 GMT
Is three in twenty acceptable ? Three in twenty was hard to stomach but we haven't lost seventeen games. Any fool can look at what has happened at this club from our relegation season to now and recognize all the stupid decisions that have been made and interpet the consequences of that. Well apparently not!!! You need to take a dose of reality! MON has inherited a whole lot of manure and you expect him to change it into Chanel No.5 in just a couple of seasons. Get real and grow a pair and support your club through thick and thin. We are improving slowly. Last night was not a poor performance and it is very painful mentally to lose in the manner we did but the positives are there to see.
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Post by tqstokie on Mar 4, 2021 11:02:16 GMT
I've had overnight to think about it and am still hugely disappointed. I thought Clarke made a forwards error at the end by trying to challenge on the wrong side. Whether he made contact or not is another useless debate. It really is very fine margins. If the two that hit the post had gone in we would have won comfortably but that is the nature of the game, some you win some you lose. To keep persisting with Mikel and Allen for 90 mins is surely an act of folly when we had subs in Thompson and Cousins to come on. The eventual sub was very puzzling t take a huge threat in Powell off. Allen or Mikel should have come off then. It would have been a good move to try Norton for Fletcher after an hour. What they do in training is a mystery. We don't seem capable of stringing two or three passes together. There is little or no attempt to move and get into space. Nobody receiving the ball seems to want to attack the space in front and carry the ball. In defence we stand too far off and allow them to find space between our lines and we persist with too much backwards and sideways stuff. Roll on next season and hopefully a new approach.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 4, 2021 11:09:35 GMT
And all the more galling given the amount we miss Absofuckinglutely Our keepers don't go the wrong way,because they move before the kick is taken,so the kicker just puts it to the opposite side of where our keepers have moved.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 11:11:34 GMT
I think the record is now at 45 consecutive Penalties that have been scored against us. Staying still and reacting to the kick for the next 45 will see us with a better save ratio that's for sure. And how many keepers have we had for those 45 penalties Dave? Whose fault is it that they're not doing what you are suggesting? The keeper coach? The manager? Or is each one just doing what he feels is right at the time? I'm not disagreeing with your central argument, but how's it going to change? It has to start with the coaching team. Had I been the goalkeeper coach, Gunn would have been aware pre-match that if he had to face an Ayew penalty and he dived before the ball was struck, he'd be fined a weeks wages and dropped for the following game.
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Post by Old School Stokie on Mar 4, 2021 11:22:28 GMT
This is now pretty much a nothing season - we’re not going up and we’re not going down. So reign in all the negativity against the players cos we know most are not good enough individually, but we need to gel as a team and offload the multitude of players we still have on the books ready for a proper challenge next year. S CFC is not going anywhere and neither is O’Neill - until at least October 2021 if we not doing well by then.
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Post by peterpan1 on Mar 4, 2021 11:44:35 GMT
Woodwork or Row 69, they don't count unless they hit the net. But O’Neill is being slated for his tactics etc. Suggesting that we set up to not to lose when in fact if those shots that hit the frame had gone in we’d have been comfortable winners. Yet that seems to go out the window when we lose. Agreed. It was a better performance. Unfortunately we are not having the rub of the green at the moment so to speak. Personally I can't wait for this season to end and then re-group and hopefully come back with Plan A, B & C
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 4, 2021 12:00:31 GMT
Is three in twenty acceptable ? Three in twenty was hard to stomach but we haven't lost seventeen games. Any fool can look at what has happened at this club from our relegation season to now and recognize all the stupid decisions that have been made and interpet the consequences of that. Well apparently not!!! You need to take a dose of reality! MON has inherited a whole lot of manure and you expect him to change it into Chanel No.5 in just a couple of seasons. Get real and grow a pair and support your club through thick and thin. We are improving slowly. Last night was not a poor performance and it is very painful mentally to lose in the manner we did but the positives are there to see. Going on your past record of backing useless managers and the stupid decisions they have made I prefer to believe what I am seeing panning out myself, he inherited a load of shit and has added to it, Mikel and Brown are not good enough we can all see that well apart from the manager that is.
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Post by tosh on Mar 4, 2021 12:25:15 GMT
And how many keepers have we had for those 45 penalties Dave? Whose fault is it that they're not doing what you are suggesting? The keeper coach? The manager? Or is each one just doing what he feels is right at the time? I'm not disagreeing with your central argument, but how's it going to change? It has to start with the coaching team. Had I been the goalkeeper coach, Gunn would have been aware pre-match that if he had to face an Ayew penalty and he dived before the ball was struck, he'd be fined a weeks wages and dropped for the following game. I think that’s absolutely right. We seem to have our former goalkeeper coach Andy Quy as co-commentator on Radio Stoke recently. It would be interesting to hear his views on why we have had 45 consecutive penalties scored against us, and whether for certain takers like Ayew, the goalkeeper ought to stand his ground until the ball is kicked. The record definitely wouldn’t be worse doing that, and we might even save a few poor penalties including the ones that are blasted down the middle.
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Post by hardcastle on Mar 4, 2021 12:25:40 GMT
After that absolutely AWFUL performance against Barnsley where we looked like a clueless and demoralised relegation outfit, these last two matches against Brentford and Swansea have (at least) confirmed what we are - a pretty competitive but essentially mid-table side.
They also suggest, if we didn't know this already, that our midfield just doesn't have enough energy with Mikel and Allen. Cousins plus one from here on please Michael.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 4, 2021 12:29:16 GMT
It has to start with the coaching team. Had I been the goalkeeper coach, Gunn would have been aware pre-match that if he had to face an Ayew penalty and he dived before the ball was struck, he'd be fined a weeks wages and dropped for the following game. I think that’s absolutely right. We seem to have our former goalkeeper coach Andy Quy as co-commentator on Radio Stoke recently. It would be interesting to hear his views on why we have had 45 consecutive penalties scored against us, and whether for certain takers like Ayew, the goalkeeper ought to stand his ground until the ball is kicked. The record definitely wouldn’t be worse doing that, and we might even save a few poor penalties! Sadly he can't say anything. He was the coach for the vast majority of the 45 penalties where the only tactic our keepers had to save it was to flop over to their left side.
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Post by tosh on Mar 4, 2021 12:32:39 GMT
This is now pretty much a nothing season - we’re not going up and we’re not going down. So reign in all the negativity against the players cos we know most are not good enough individually, but we need to gel as a team and offload the multitude of players we still have on the books ready for a proper challenge next year. S CFC is not going anywhere and neither is O’Neill - until at least October 2021 if we not doing well by then. Hopefully you’re right but I’m not over confident of a challenge next season. We will unfortunately still be lumbered with most of the expensive deadwood nobody wants, and presumably having to shop in the bargain basement, without parachute payments and subject to FFP restrictions. Hopefully Campbell is fit and stays fit. With him there may be a chance.
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Post by silverdollar on Mar 4, 2021 12:35:56 GMT
Three in twenty was hard to stomach but we haven't lost seventeen games. Any fool can look at what has happened at this club from our relegation season to now and recognize all the stupid decisions that have been made and interpet the consequences of that. Well apparently not!!! You need to take a dose of reality! MON has inherited a whole lot of manure and you expect him to change it into Chanel No.5 in just a couple of seasons. Get real and grow a pair and support your club through thick and thin. We are improving slowly. Last night was not a poor performance and it is very painful mentally to lose in the manner we did but the positives are there to see. Going on your past record of backing useless managers and the stupid decisions they have made I prefer to believe what I am seeing panning out myself, he inherited a load of shit and has added to it, Mikel and Brown are not good enough we can all see that well apart from the manager that is. Just because you think a manager is "crap" does not mean that is the reality. I do agree with you that in Stoke's dive into relegation the board at Stoke have made some truly dire decisions but decisions about Managers and when they get sacked has to be at the correct time and not at the whim of fans who shoot from the hip at every opportunity and spread negativity wrongly. I seriously consider that if you asked anyone working in football at a good level that they would think that MON has done a bad job. The vast majority would say he has performed very well indeed.
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Post by tosh on Mar 4, 2021 12:37:04 GMT
I think that’s absolutely right. We seem to have our former goalkeeper coach Andy Quy as co-commentator on Radio Stoke recently. It would be interesting to hear his views on why we have had 45 consecutive penalties scored against us, and whether for certain takers like Ayew, the goalkeeper ought to stand his ground until the ball is kicked. The record definitely wouldn’t be worse doing that, and we might even save a few poor penalties! Sadly he can't say anything. He was the coach for the vast majority of the 45 penalties where the only tactic our keepers had to save it was to flop over to their left side. Good point. We’re not likely to learn much!
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Post by crapslinger on Mar 4, 2021 12:47:22 GMT
Going on your past record of backing useless managers and the stupid decisions they have made I prefer to believe what I am seeing panning out myself, he inherited a load of shit and has added to it, Mikel and Brown are not good enough we can all see that well apart from the manager that is. Just because you think a manager is "crap" does not mean that is the reality. I do agree with you that in Stoke's dive into relegation the board at Stoke have made some truly dire decisions but decisions about Managers and when they get sacked has to be at the correct time and not at the whim of fans who shoot from the hip at every opportunity and spread negativity wrongly. I seriously consider that if you asked anyone working in football at a good level that they would think that MON has done a bad job. The vast majority would say he has performed very well indeed. He did very well last season, I believe he has been found out at this level his lack of League experience, tactical naivety and poor transfers mean he will never have us challenging for promotion from this League, constantly selecting poor players is madness.
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 4, 2021 12:55:08 GMT
I'm still fuming about THAT penalty decidion. It takes a lot to make me angry but that has got to me big style. One cheating bastard; one utterly wank ref, and we end up losing a game against a good side that we didn't deserve to lose. OS.
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