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Post by kustokie on Feb 6, 2021 23:16:32 GMT
As I have said before, he can only play the cards he was dealt. He had a very strong hand at the beginning of the season with several high cards: Collins, Souttar, Davies, Campbell, Powell and Fletcher. And he drew two very good cards in January in Norington and Clark, which fill in two gaps. Unfortunately, without Campbell, Powell, and Norrington Davis, he now has a weaker hand that he started with, which is why we are struggling.
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Post by blackpoolred on Feb 6, 2021 23:59:16 GMT
Those that are wanting to pull the trigger on MON should think on. Our owners have an appalling track record in employing managers and are feckin clueless when it comes to all things football - as much as I love them for everything else they do - of course We know the next manager would be British and we know we would, probably, have to google him to find out who he is. I remember having to do that with MON and it came back with a man who was doing community service to reduce a driving ban and whose only football league experience was Shamrock Rovers. On paper it was another fecking shocking decision to employ him - they, of course, will say it was well thought out appointment and a man they had studied and targeted for a while with great character We/they, though, have lucked out with this man and I think he is a bit of a genius - he is of course like a lot of the youngsters in his team new to all of this and learning himself. We might not be winning but he has us competing in every game of football - we should not take that for granted as this has not been the case under quite a few managers in recent years. He has built a team ethos and players look like they care when they take to the field. He has inherited an absolute cluster feck of a situation, Stoke are paying over £100,000 pound in wages for 3 central defenders that have not kicked a ball for us this season, he has his hands tied and that will be the case for a couple of seasons to come. In the meantime, he is bleeding in some youngsters, whether he wanted to or not and having to play quite a few journeymen in the process. Our only rhetoric for this season and next will be to keep the team out of the dogfight while hopefully some green shoots will begin to appear and new foundations put down. We should also not forget that it was the form of Campbell, Clucas, Powell and Allen that played a big part in keeping us up last season and we have not been able to see all 4 of them together in the team this season for any period. Pull the trigger on MON and we are one cluster feck of an appointment from tier 3 footy. Show a bit of patience and I think we could see a genuine top half team in a couple of seasons, possibly even sooner with some good transfer windows.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 7, 2021 1:29:53 GMT
As I have said before, he can only play the cards he was dealt. He had a very strong hand at the beginning of the season with several high cards: Collins, Souttar, Davies, Campbell, Powell and Fletcher. And he drew two very good cards in January in Norington and Clark, which fill in two gaps. Unfortunately, without Campbell, Powell, and Norrington Davis, he now has a weaker hand that he started with, which is why we are struggling. Fox is better than Norrington Davies and we’ve lost Powell for that last two games 😂
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Post by skip on Feb 7, 2021 1:39:02 GMT
Getting rid of MON would be *mental*. He's a pragmatist and a long game player.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 7, 2021 1:39:50 GMT
As I have said before, he can only play the cards he was dealt. He had a very strong hand at the beginning of the season with several high cards: Collins, Souttar, Davies, Campbell, Powell and Fletcher. And he drew two very good cards in January in Norington and Clark, which fill in two gaps. Unfortunately, without Campbell, Powell, and Norrington Davis, he now has a weaker hand that he started with, which is why we are struggling. Fox is better than Norrington Davies and we’ve lost Powell for that last two games 😂 No way in a million years is Fox better than Norrington-Davies. Fox is decent enough LB but not got the same quality.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 7, 2021 1:41:24 GMT
Getting rid of MON would be *mental*. He's a pragmatist and a long game player. The problem is some people are mental and short sighted. Luckily no one at the club though.
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Post by skip on Feb 7, 2021 1:42:34 GMT
Getting rid of MON would be *mental*. He's a pragmatist and a long game player. The problem is some people are mental and short sighted. Luckily no one at the club though. We've stumbled across a slow burner and let's hope to goodness he gets the chance to see it through.
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Post by skip on Feb 7, 2021 1:44:32 GMT
Thank Christ people aren't confusing StokeCity (right now) with instant gratification akin to Saturday night purple and pink TV.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 7, 2021 1:44:42 GMT
Fox is better than Norrington Davies and we’ve lost Powell for that last two games 😂 No way in a million years is Fox better than Norrington-Davies. Fox is decent enough LB but not got the same quality. Fox is a much better defender. RND drives forward with the ball better and makes better runs. Fox is the better crosser. I like both but I think RND has been very naive defensively which is fine he’s young and learning. Fox is the better of the two at the moment though. I have no doubt that in time RND will be the better player but not a chance at the minute.
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Post by skip on Feb 7, 2021 1:48:16 GMT
Q. Can ND and Fox play in the same team?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 7, 2021 1:49:57 GMT
Q. Can ND and Fox play in the same team? Yes, back 3. But Fox at LCB looked shit to me. Would certainly get the best out of RND and mean no McClean though.
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Post by skip on Feb 7, 2021 1:52:47 GMT
^ I'm good with taking the risk of three at the back that includes ND and at the expense of McClean, who today had me screaming and cursing at my laptop.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 7, 2021 2:02:11 GMT
^ I'm good with taking the risk of three at the back that includes ND and at the expense of McClean, who today had me screaming and cursing at my laptop. He was shite but I’d rather we played 4231 and not play a player we’re developing for another club who we imo have very little chance of signing. If RND was ours then I’d be way more inclined to use him even when Fox is fit. Both are good left backs but at the minute Fox is the better by some distance. In time RND will be better but that means fuck all for us.
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Post by skip on Feb 7, 2021 2:05:38 GMT
^ developing players for other clubs is not cool, don't dispute that. If ND was brought in to cover Fox's injury then yes, problematic. But then - again, solipsism alert - I've been in a position where I've had to balance short term needs with long term sustainable improvement, and Christ in heaven knows how you do that with agent and CEOs and other wankers involved. It's bad enough with 'normal' people on 'normal' contracts.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 7, 2021 2:12:06 GMT
No it made sense to bring him in for sure.
My issue initially in this thread is the assertion that missing somehow hinders us.
Which I think is nonsensical.
Fox for me has been MON’s best signing by a mile.
We didn’t miss anything at left back today, if anything we were better because of how steadfast and solid he was.
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Feb 7, 2021 2:18:30 GMT
Those that are wanting to pull the trigger on MON should think on. Our owners have an appalling track record in employing managers and are feckin clueless when it comes to all things football - as much as I love them for everything else they do - of course We know the next manager would be British and we know we would, probably, have to google him to find out who he is. I remember having to do that with MON and it came back with a man who was doing community service to reduce a driving ban and whose only football league experience was Shamrock Rovers. On paper it was another fecking shocking decision to employ him - they, of course, will say it was well thought out appointment and a man they had studied and targeted for a while with great character We/they, though, have lucked out with this man and I think he is a bit of a genius - he is of course like a lot of the youngsters in his team new to all of this and learning himself. We might not be winning but he has us competing in every game of football - we should not take that for granted as this has not been the case under quite a few managers in recent years. He has built a team ethos and players look like they care when they take to the field. He has inherited an absolute cluster feck of a situation, Stoke are paying over £100,000 pound in wages for 3 central defenders that have not kicked a ball for us this season, he has his hands tied and that will be the case for a couple of seasons to come. In the meantime, he is bleeding in some youngsters, whether he wanted to or not and having to play quite a few journeymen in the process. Our only rhetoric for this season and next will be to keep the team out of the dogfight while hopefully some green shoots will begin to appear and new foundations put down. We should also not forget that it was the form of Campbell, Clucas, Powell and Allen that played a big part in keeping us up last season and we have not been able to see all 4 of them together in the team this season for any period. Pull the trigger on MON and we are one cluster feck of an appointment from tier 3 footy. Show a bit of patience and I think we could see a genuine top half team in a couple of seasons, possibly even sooner with some good transfer windows. All good stuff but, the I want it now generation, can't handle it
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Post by jeycov on Feb 7, 2021 8:51:16 GMT
Yep lets sack MON like we did Hughes.....and look how that ended The point was we sacked Hughes too late. Should have been done at the end of the 16/17 season instead of half way through the following season with us in a dreadful position. I'm not saying we should sack him now or even at the end of this season. But if this current run continues much longer questions need to be asked because it's not all about the lack of quality up front, the approach to matches and poor substitutions aren't helping either. I still have faith that he'll move us forward long term but 1 win in 12 in the league just isn't good enough. 11 draws so far this season, we were losing in many similar situations during the last 2 seasons - there is some progress there Of course it’s frustrating MON isn’t jumping up and down on the touch line bellowing out instructions ( not always helpful to the players) He’s prepared to be patient and fans need to adopt the same approach It’s only a week since he’s offloaded several players with a view to developing a great atmosphere with a mixture of youth and experience He managed Campbell, slowly introducing him to first team football and possibly intends to do the same with some of our other prospects / new signings
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Post by hardcastle on Feb 7, 2021 10:15:58 GMT
No it made sense to bring him in for sure. My issue initially in this thread is the assertion that missing somehow hinders us. Which I think is nonsensical. Fox for me has been MON’s best signing by a mile. We didn’t miss anything at left back today, if anything we were better because of how steadfast and solid he was. MON's best signing has surely been pursuading Ty to commit to a long contract rather than let him slip away (as we have with TV).
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Post by albundy on Feb 7, 2021 11:03:06 GMT
As I have said before, he can only play the cards he was dealt. He had a very strong hand at the beginning of the season with several high cards: Collins, Souttar, Davies, Campbell, Powell and Fletcher. And he drew two very good cards in January in Norington and Clark, which fill in two gaps. Unfortunately, without Campbell, Powell, and Norrington Davis, he now has a weaker hand that he started with, which is why we are struggling. He can play those cards in a variety of ways though. He doesn't have to fold every single time
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Post by richardparker on Feb 7, 2021 11:22:53 GMT
I said it 3 times ... and I'm over it already.
You should too!
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Post by Milkie on Feb 7, 2021 11:53:33 GMT
An interesting discussion, and on reflection there are still positives when taken from a more generic view, squad trimmed, clear view of building a squad for the future, better youngsters onto longer contracts. However, in the here and now we had an opportunity for a concerted effort to make the play offs, just as we hit relegation form. We have 18 games left and realistically need to average 2 point a game to make the play offs, that means a change of mind set, not going out to protect the point, but back to what we had in the second half of last season , a far more progressive set up, positive timely substitutes and tactical changes to put the opposition on the back foot. We have the squad, even bereft of Campbell to achieve this, if the manager unleashes them. After such a poor 3 years this one promised so much and the disappointment of it drifting to nothing is palpable
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Post by dudnostokie on Feb 7, 2021 12:32:37 GMT
Those that are wanting to pull the trigger on MON should think on. Our owners have an appalling track record in employing managers and are feckin clueless when it comes to all things football - as much as I love them for everything else they do - of course We know the next manager would be British and we know we would, probably, have to google him to find out who he is. I remember having to do that with MON and it came back with a man who was doing community service to reduce a driving ban and whose only football league experience was Shamrock Rovers. On paper it was another fecking shocking decision to employ him - they, of course, will say it was well thought out appointment and a man they had studied and targeted for a while with great character We/they, though, have lucked out with this man and I think he is a bit of a genius - he is of course like a lot of the youngsters in his team new to all of this and learning himself. We might not be winning but he has us competing in every game of football - we should not take that for granted as this has not been the case under quite a few managers in recent years. He has built a team ethos and players look like they care when they take to the field. He has inherited an absolute cluster feck of a situation, Stoke are paying over £100,000 pound in wages for 3 central defenders that have not kicked a ball for us this season, he has his hands tied and that will be the case for a couple of seasons to come. In the meantime, he is bleeding in some youngsters, whether he wanted to or not and having to play quite a few journeymen in the process. Our only rhetoric for this season and next will be to keep the team out of the dogfight while hopefully some green shoots will begin to appear and new foundations put down. We should also not forget that it was the form of Campbell, Clucas, Powell and Allen that played a big part in keeping us up last season and we have not been able to see all 4 of them together in the team this season for any period. Pull the trigger on MON and we are one cluster feck of an appointment from tier 3 footy. Show a bit of patience and I think we could see a genuine top half team in a couple of seasons, possibly even sooner with some good transfer windows. A perfectly put post. I get that we're playing quite negatively at the moment, bar yesterday where I actually think we were the better team. Those calling for MON's head are lacking perspective and foresight. We have stumbled upon a manager who is having to work with one arm tied behind his back. We've been wanting someone who will give the youth a chance, and as we've seen past season we have the ability to hurt teams. We just need to ride out this wave of injuries, and ffp restriction and I have faith that MON will be able to fight for the playoffs in the seasons to come. He just needs time.
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Post by iglugluk on Feb 7, 2021 12:33:19 GMT
An interesting discussion, and on reflection there are still positives when taken from a more generic view, squad trimmed, clear view of building a squad for the future, better youngsters onto longer contracts. However, in the here and now we had an opportunity for a concerted effort to make the play offs, just as we hit relegation form. We have 18 games left and realistically need to average 2 point a game to make the play offs, that means a change of mind set, not going out to protect the point, but back to what we had in the second half of last season , a far more progressive set up, positive timely substitutes and tactical changes to put the opposition on the back foot. We have the squad, even bereft of Campbell to achieve this, if the manager unleashes them. After such a poor 3 years this one promised so much and the disappointment of it drifting to nothing is palpable Good balanced points of view there. I've reordered it to make it more readable than the 'block' that was posted
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 7, 2021 12:38:46 GMT
Those that are wanting to pull the trigger on MON should think on. Our owners have an appalling track record in employing managers and are feckin clueless when it comes to all things football - as much as I love them for everything else they do - of course We know the next manager would be British and we know we would, probably, have to google him to find out who he is. I remember having to do that with MON and it came back with a man who was doing community service to reduce a driving ban and whose only football league experience was Shamrock Rovers. On paper it was another fecking shocking decision to employ him - they, of course, will say it was well thought out appointment and a man they had studied and targeted for a while with great character We/they, though, have lucked out with this man and I think he is a bit of a genius - he is of course like a lot of the youngsters in his team new to all of this and learning himself. We might not be winning but he has us competing in every game of football - we should not take that for granted as this has not been the case under quite a few managers in recent years. He has built a team ethos and players look like they care when they take to the field. He has inherited an absolute cluster feck of a situation, Stoke are paying over £100,000 pound in wages for 3 central defenders that have not kicked a ball for us this season, he has his hands tied and that will be the case for a couple of seasons to come. In the meantime, he is bleeding in some youngsters, whether he wanted to or not and having to play quite a few journeymen in the process. Our only rhetoric for this season and next will be to keep the team out of the dogfight while hopefully some green shoots will begin to appear and new foundations put down. We should also not forget that it was the form of Campbell, Clucas, Powell and Allen that played a big part in keeping us up last season and we have not been able to see all 4 of them together in the team this season for any period. Pull the trigger on MON and we are one cluster feck of an appointment from tier 3 footy. Show a bit of patience and I think we could see a genuine top half team in a couple of seasons, possibly even sooner with some good transfer windows. And this is the point, what if we did get rid of MON who next? Okay mr next manager you have little or no money to spend and you need to shift 6 or 7 players with big ego's big wages and no intention of giving anything for the shirt once this is accomplished this there will be funds available to you! When can you start?
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Post by dudnostokie on Feb 7, 2021 12:40:56 GMT
An interesting discussion, and on reflection there are still positives when taken from a more generic view, squad trimmed, clear view of building a squad for the future, better youngsters onto longer contracts. However, in the here and now we had an opportunity for a concerted effort to make the play offs, just as we hit relegation form. We have 18 games left and realistically need to average 2 point a game to make the play offs, that means a change of mind set, not going out to protect the point, but back to what we had in the second half of last season , a far more progressive set up, positive timely substitutes and tactical changes to put the opposition on the back foot. We have the squad, even bereft of Campbell to achieve this, if the manager unleashes them. After such a poor 3 years this one promised so much and the disappointment of it drifting to nothing is palpable I don't think anyone in their right minds thought we would be pushing for the play offs this season. Granted, our form was good towards the back end of last season but the hampering of FFP is still there, and we have had injuries to key players for the majority of the season so far. After the shit show of the last two seasons, top 10 is a good milestone for this year. Perhaps play offs next season will be a fair assessment, but as long as there is improvement, I'm happy to wait.
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Post by a on Feb 7, 2021 13:14:38 GMT
^ I'm good with taking the risk of three at the back that includes ND and at the expense of McClean, who today had me screaming and cursing at my laptop. He was shite but I’d rather we played 4231 and not play a player we’re developing for another club who we imo have very little chance of signing. If RND was ours then I’d be way more inclined to use him even when Fox is fit. Both are good left backs but at the minute Fox is the better by some distance. In time RND will be better but that means fuck all for us. I wonder if Arsenal think that with Odegard? Or Wolves with Vitinha? If the loanees managed to get us promoted (not this season admittedly) then it would be worth it, even if they didn’t stay.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 7, 2021 13:15:53 GMT
He was shite but I’d rather we played 4231 and not play a player we’re developing for another club who we imo have very little chance of signing. If RND was ours then I’d be way more inclined to use him even when Fox is fit. Both are good left backs but at the minute Fox is the better by some distance. In time RND will be better but that means fuck all for us. I wonder if Arsenal think that with Odegard? Or Wolves with Vitinha? If the loanees managed to get us promoted (not this season admittedly) then it would be worth it, even if they didn’t stay. Fox is the better player now, why wouldn’t we play him over RND?
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Post by a on Feb 7, 2021 13:20:05 GMT
I wonder if Arsenal think that with Odegard? Or Wolves with Vitinha? If the loanees managed to get us promoted (not this season admittedly) then it would be worth it, even if they didn’t stay. Fox is the better player now, why wouldn’t we play him over RND? I’m not sure who is better as it stands, I think after 4 games (3.5 actually) that I’m not sure there’s much between them.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Feb 7, 2021 13:22:28 GMT
Fox is the better player now, why wouldn’t we play him over RND? I’m not sure who is better as it stands, I think after 4 games (3.5 actually) that I’m not sure there’s much between them. Fox is way better defensively for me. RND has shown lots of naivety which is fine as he’s youngish and learning. Fox should be playing though because he’s better, we own him and unless there’s a genuine chance of signing RND his development and learning will be of no benefit to us.
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Feb 7, 2021 14:06:49 GMT
Question. How many of O'Neill's 7 signings (excluding this month's batch as we haven't seen enough of them) have actually improved us? Fletcher, Mikel, Thompson, Fox, Chester, Brown and TOB are the seven I refer to. Fox and Fletcher. Although fletcher has been far too injury prone. The others have been meh
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