|
Post by Olgrligm on Jan 11, 2021 8:39:05 GMT
So to sum up: Goal 1 was poor from McClean and Allen but a freakishly superb finish. Goal 2 was an excellent pass and bit of play that caught out McClean and Batth. Goal 3 saw the entire team stop to watch the ball go out while Leicester played on. Nobody from midfield bothered to follow runners or cover the defence. Goal 4 came when Shawcross, the only player with any interest in defending at this point, read the game, got his positioning right and made an excellent interception. Alas, the midfield couldn't be bothered helping out and so there was no follow up to clear the ball. Two superb goals to pin on McClean and two goals that were a direct result of the switch from all out defence to all out attack with an absent midfield. Conclusion: Shawcross is finished?! Then we've got the full-on insanity of a player with 400ish Premier League games for us being negatively compared to a pair of third division defenders. That's even crazier than the idea that he was carried by Huth, despite consistently one of the best PL defenders for the majority of Hughes' reign. Complete madness. The 1st goal was Smith & Allen, McClean was on the other side of the pitch. So un-pin that one. Yes, you're right. My brain switched off there. I'll edit it now.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Jan 11, 2021 9:18:54 GMT
Great player that he's been over the years that was pretty awful and a shame but we need to move him out in the summer. His wage is far better going to some younger players that can actually keep up with the pace of a game. 1st full high intensity game this season, against a top 6 PL team playing in Europe this season, let's see how he is when fully match fit eh ?
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Jan 11, 2021 12:24:01 GMT
Providing he can remain injury free, Ryan will be back in the middle of our defence in a month or less. And so he should be. He's still a class defender but will need to use his experience to overcome the slight loss of pace he used to have. About a month ago I was of the feeling that his injuries were ending his career prematurely but as I said, if he can remain injury free then we got a top class centre half back in the fold.
OS.
|
|
|
Post by redstriper on Jan 11, 2021 12:47:42 GMT
Tielemans is one of the worlds best and plays for the worlds No1 rated international team. He ran the game and exploited the weakness down our flanks at every opportunity, especially in the second half when given far too much space by a tiring midfield, yet some people on here are blaming our centre half ?
weird.
|
|
|
Post by onepara on Jan 11, 2021 12:58:03 GMT
Providing he can remain injury free, Ryan will be back in the middle of our defence in a month or less. And so he should be. He's still a class defender but will need to use his experience to overcome the slight loss of pace he used to have. About a month ago I was of the feeling that his injuries were ending his career prematurely but as I said, if he can remain injury free then we got a top class centre half back in the fold. OS. As it's said, the first few yards are in your head. Watching the game I thought that he was clearing up after the other defenders, reading the game. Obviously, he needs to get match-fit, & that was why he was playing. Some people expect too much. He's been out for a long time. He isn't ready to retire yet, despite the criticism.
|
|
|
Post by onepara on Jan 11, 2021 12:58:46 GMT
Providing he can remain injury free, Ryan will be back in the middle of our defence in a month or less. And so he should be. He's still a class defender but will need to use his experience to overcome the slight loss of pace he used to have. About a month ago I was of the feeling that his injuries were ending his career prematurely but as I said, if he can remain injury free then we got a top class centre half back in the fold. OS. As it's said, the first few yards are in your head. Watching the game I thought that he was clearing up after the other defenders, reading the game. Obviously, he needs to get match-fit, & that was why he was playing. Some people expect too much. He's been out for a long time. He isn't ready to retire yet, despite the criticism.
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jan 11, 2021 15:44:07 GMT
However...even if he has a fantastic end to the season, there seems no sense in extending his contract for more than one year and on a significantly reduced wage. Moving forward it has to be Collins and Souttar in the middle.
|
|
|
Post by Fred Merger on Jan 11, 2021 16:08:35 GMT
However...even if he has a fantastic end to the season, there seems no sense in extending his contract for more than one year and on a significantly reduced wage. Moving forward it has to be Collins and Souttar in the middle. There is no point in offering him another 12 months even on a much reduced contract we don't have the wriggle room to be sentimental to ex players whoever they may be. Ryan will continue to miss games through injury. People need to remember the good times and move on.Souttar and Collins need to play as many games as possible and gain experience.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 11, 2021 17:18:37 GMT
However...even if he has a fantastic end to the season, there seems no sense in extending his contract for more than one year and on a significantly reduced wage. Moving forward it has to be Collins and Souttar in the middle. There is no point in offering him another 12 months even on a much reduced contract we don't have the wriggle room to be sentimental to ex players whoever they may be. Ryan will continue to miss games through injury. People need to remember the good times and move on.Souttar and Collins need to play as many games as possible and gain experience. What have you got in for Shawcross? So even if he proves to be the best defender at the club, which I hope he will after a few games, you'd get rid? Are you forgetting what happened when we let Huth go and the uproar there was for that despite the fact Hughes wasn't playing him? Shawcross is not paid his full wage when unfit. You make him sound like a mercenary out to get as much as possible out of the club instead of the loyal player he has been. He has played for Stoke even when not fit and any wear and tear injuries he suffers from now are a direct result of putting his body on the line for the club. For that reason he deserves the offer of a new contract. Collins and Souttar are the future but I can think of nobody better to captain and guide them as they try to achieve their potential. Some people would hound Shawcross out of the club for no reason other than he's too old. I remember the days when I too wanted to see the team made up of young, cool players and didn't appreciate the Dobings, Easthams Bloors etc. As you mature you learn appreciation of what makes a player good and valuable to the club.
|
|
|
Post by Fred Merger on Jan 11, 2021 19:20:58 GMT
There is no point in offering him another 12 months even on a much reduced contract we don't have the wriggle room to be sentimental to ex players whoever they may be. Ryan will continue to miss games through injury. People need to remember the good times and move on.Souttar and Collins need to play as many games as possible and gain experience. What have you got in for Shawcross? So even if he proves to be the best defender at the club, which I hope he will after a few games, you'd get rid? Are you forgetting what happened when we let Huth go and the uproar there was for that despite the fact Hughes wasn't playing him? Shawcross is not paid his full wage when unfit. You make him sound like a mercenary out to get as much as possible out of the club instead of the loyal player he has been. He has played for Stoke even when not fit and any wear and tear injuries he suffers from now are a direct result of putting his body on the line for the club. For that reason he deserves the offer of a new contract. Collins and Souttar are the future but I can think of nobody better to captain and guide them as they try to achieve their potential. Some people would hound Shawcross out of the club for no reason other than he's too old. I remember the days when I too wanted to see the team made up of young, cool players and didn't appreciate the Dobings, Easthams Bloors etc. As you mature you learn appreciation of what makes a player good and valuable to the club. So you think we should give Ryan another contract after his present one runs out in summer. We haven't got upto 8th in the league with Ryan playing regularly. We have got there with the likes of Collins,Souttar Chester,Fox,Batth ,Smith.We don't need to be paying players on big money who very rarely finish a game. We obviously are struggling to move players on that are still under contract on inflated wages and you think we should burden ourselves by offering extensions to ones that never play. It's not until the summer of 2022 that a lot of current deals come to an end. Until then we have to be extremely careful with any deals that we hand out. I don't have anything personal against Shawcross just that he needs to be phased out this summer to allow for younger players the chance to play more football.
|
|
|
Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 11, 2021 19:28:13 GMT
What have you got in for Shawcross? So even if he proves to be the best defender at the club, which I hope he will after a few games, you'd get rid? Are you forgetting what happened when we let Huth go and the uproar there was for that despite the fact Hughes wasn't playing him? Shawcross is not paid his full wage when unfit. You make him sound like a mercenary out to get as much as possible out of the club instead of the loyal player he has been. He has played for Stoke even when not fit and any wear and tear injuries he suffers from now are a direct result of putting his body on the line for the club. For that reason he deserves the offer of a new contract. Collins and Souttar are the future but I can think of nobody better to captain and guide them as they try to achieve their potential. Some people would hound Shawcross out of the club for no reason other than he's too old. I remember the days when I too wanted to see the team made up of young, cool players and didn't appreciate the Dobings, Easthams Bloors etc. As you mature you learn appreciation of what makes a player good and valuable to the club. So you think we should give Ryan another contract after his present one runs out in summer. We haven't got upto 8th in the league with Ryan playing regularly. We have got there with the likes of Collins,Souttar Chester,Fox,Batth ,Smith.We don't need to be paying players on big money who very rarely finish a game. We obviously are struggling to move players on that are still under contract on inflated wages and you think we should burden ourselves by offering extensions to ones that never play. It's not until the summer of 2022 that a lot of current deals come to an end. Until then we have to be extremely careful with any deals that we hand out. I don't have anything personal against Shawcross just that he needs to be phased out this summer to allow for younger players the chance to play more football. Last time I looked, 8th wasn't good enough to secure promotion or even a play off place. That suggests to me, with half a season played, that if we have better players available in certain positions then we need to use them.
|
|
|
Post by Fred Merger on Jan 11, 2021 19:34:57 GMT
So you think we should give Ryan another contract after his present one runs out in summer. We haven't got upto 8th in the league with Ryan playing regularly. We have got there with the likes of Collins,Souttar Chester,Fox,Batth ,Smith.We don't need to be paying players on big money who very rarely finish a game. We obviously are struggling to move players on that are still under contract on inflated wages and you think we should burden ourselves by offering extensions to ones that never play. It's not until the summer of 2022 that a lot of current deals come to an end. Until then we have to be extremely careful with any deals that we hand out. I don't have anything personal against Shawcross just that he needs to be phased out this summer to allow for younger players the chance to play more football. Last time I looked, 8th wasn't good enough to secure promotion or even a play off place. That suggests to me, with half a season played, that if we have better players available in certain positions then we need to use them. Well we certainly won't be a top 8 side if Shawcross comes back in regularly which he won't anyway because we have much better and younger players that have earnt the best clean sheet record in the league. Why would you want to upset that it doesn't make sense. It's goals at the other end of the pitch that we need. Not dismantling a back line that has been excellent before Saturday.
|
|
|
Post by dirtclod on Jan 11, 2021 19:41:15 GMT
I fear that FFP will force us into several decisions we normally wouldn't take. And specifically like Fred Merger says, due to the struggle of getting rid of these fart-in-the-wind, un-sellable players on inflated contracts, who are not fit to lace Ryan's boots.
|
|
|
Post by hyaduck on Jan 11, 2021 20:37:12 GMT
On a football point of view, why on earth would anyone think Shawcross could be an upgrade. I can understand the sentimental point of view but let’s be honest, it’s not just his injuries, can anyone imagine him picking the ball up at his feet and calmly carrying it out of defence... HOOF.
|
|
|
Post by nottsover60 on Jan 11, 2021 21:13:55 GMT
Last time I looked, 8th wasn't good enough to secure promotion or even a play off place. That suggests to me, with half a season played, that if we have better players available in certain positions then we need to use them. Well we certainly won't be a top 8 side if Shawcross comes back in regularly which he won't anyway because we have much better and younger players that have earnt the best clean sheet record in the league. Why would you want to upset that it doesn't make sense. It's goals at the other end of the pitch that we need. Not dismantling a back line that has been excellent before Saturday. Shall we wait and see? I half think you are just trying to wind people up and my arguing with you means you are achieving your aim. If he is fully recovered Shawcross will be the best centre half at the club. Good though they are Souttar and Collins have achieved nothing yet compared to Shawcross. Lots of players fail to fulfill their potential. Shawcross has nothing to prove to anyone, his career speaks for itself.
|
|
|
Post by awrypotter on Jan 11, 2021 21:22:28 GMT
Sadly, Ryan has been poor for a long time but he has gained a mythical legendary status mainly based on the time that Robert Huth played alongside him. A lot of fans have a sentimental image of him but the truth is he's way past his sell-by date.
|
|
|
Post by hyaduck on Jan 11, 2021 21:29:05 GMT
Well we certainly won't be a top 8 side if Shawcross comes back in regularly which he won't anyway because we have much better and younger players that have earnt the best clean sheet record in the league. Why would you want to upset that it doesn't make sense. It's goals at the other end of the pitch that we need. Not dismantling a back line that has been excellent before Saturday. Shall we wait and see? I half think you are just trying to wind people up and my arguing with you means you are achieving your aim. If he is fully recovered Shawcross will be the best centre half at the club. Good though they are Souttar and Collins have achieved nothing yet compared to Shawcross. Lots of players fail to fulfill their potential. Shawcross has nothing to prove to anyone, his career speaks for itself. He’s either paying you to say what you’re saying or you’re deluded. He never was the best centre half at the club, he was carried by Huth for many seasons. Don’t get me wrong, as a human being he’s great and would love to have him around the club for years to come, but not as a player.
|
|
|
Post by boskampsflaps on Jan 11, 2021 21:36:35 GMT
There is no point in offering him another 12 months even on a much reduced contract we don't have the wriggle room to be sentimental to ex players whoever they may be. Ryan will continue to miss games through injury. People need to remember the good times and move on.Souttar and Collins need to play as many games as possible and gain experience. What have you got in for Shawcross? So even if he proves to be the best defender at the club, which I hope he will after a few games, you'd get rid? Are you forgetting what happened when we let Huth go and the uproar there was for that despite the fact Hughes wasn't playing him? Shawcross is not paid his full wage when unfit. You make him sound like a mercenary out to get as much as possible out of the club instead of the loyal player he has been. He has played for Stoke even when not fit and any wear and tear injuries he suffers from now are a direct result of putting his body on the line for the club. For that reason he deserves the offer of a new contract. Collins and Souttar are the future but I can think of nobody better to captain and guide them as they try to achieve their potential. Some people would hound Shawcross out of the club for no reason other than he's too old. I remember the days when I too wanted to see the team made up of young, cool players and didn't appreciate the Dobings, Easthams Bloors etc. As you mature you learn appreciation of what makes a player good and valuable to the club. How do you know he's not paid a full wage? Even so he's on mental money and we can't afford him.
|
|
|
Post by Fred Merger on Jan 11, 2021 21:49:52 GMT
Well we certainly won't be a top 8 side if Shawcross comes back in regularly which he won't anyway because we have much better and younger players that have earnt the best clean sheet record in the league. Why would you want to upset that it doesn't make sense. It's goals at the other end of the pitch that we need. Not dismantling a back line that has been excellent before Saturday. Shall we wait and see? I half think you are just trying to wind people up and my arguing with you means you are achieving your aim. If he is fully recovered Shawcross will be the best centre half at the club. Good though they are Souttar and Collins have achieved nothing yet compared to Shawcross. Lots of players fail to fulfill their potential. Shawcross has nothing to prove to anyone, his career speaks for itself. The point us that he is never going to be fully recovered because his body cannot stand upto the rigours of playing regular football without giving way. He has no chance whatsoever of playing Saturday,Tuesday or Wednesday football. His body cannot deal with it. I'm not trying to wind anybody up its my opinion for what it's worth. He was part of a group of players including Whelan,Delap, Lawrence,Fuller even Cresswell that played a big part in our promotion and survival in the Premier League. They have all come to the end of their careers. You cannot chuck money at players forever.
|
|
|
Post by hyaduck on Jan 11, 2021 22:07:36 GMT
Shall we wait and see? I half think you are just trying to wind people up and my arguing with you means you are achieving your aim. If he is fully recovered Shawcross will be the best centre half at the club. Good though they are Souttar and Collins have achieved nothing yet compared to Shawcross. Lots of players fail to fulfill their potential. Shawcross has nothing to prove to anyone, his career speaks for itself. The point us that he is never going to be fully recovered because his body cannot stand upto the rigours of playing regular football without giving way. He has no chance whatsoever of playing Saturday,Tuesday or Wednesday football. His body cannot deal with it. I'm not trying to wind anybody up its my opinion for what it's worth. He was part of a group of players including Whelan,Delap, Lawrence,Fuller even Cresswell that played a big part in our promotion and survival in the Premier League. They have all come to the end of their careers. You cannot chuck money at players forever. [ You’re living in the past
|
|
|
Post by jimmygscfc1234 on Jan 11, 2021 22:27:12 GMT
No disrespect meant from me. I said if he proved his worth to the manager then he might get another year but on much less money. It’s just common sense. However, next season is a hell of a long way away and we will need a settled defence sooner rather than later. Looking at Ryan’s record over the past season, I would be staggered if he was anywhere near first choice. If he proves me wrong I would be very happy. There’s also no need for this thread to turn into a slanging match or a critique of Ryan’s overall contribution to our cause.
|
|
|
Post by Sfance on Jan 11, 2021 22:53:07 GMT
Sadly, Ryan has been poor for a long time but he has gained a mythical legendary status mainly based on the time that Robert Huth played alongside him. A lot of fans have a sentimental image of him but the truth is he's way past his sell-by date. Exactly. Well said that man.
|
|
|
Post by Olgrligm on Jan 12, 2021 0:51:02 GMT
Sadly, Ryan has been poor for a long time but he has gained a mythical legendary status mainly based on the time that Robert Huth played alongside him. A lot of fans have a sentimental image of him but the truth is he's way past his sell-by date. With respect, that couldn't be more incorrect regarding Huth.
|
|
|
Post by tomcmod on Jan 12, 2021 1:54:47 GMT
On a football point of view, why on earth would anyone think Shawcross could be an upgrade. I can understand the sentimental point of view but let’s be honest, it’s not just his injuries, can anyone imagine him picking the ball up at his feet and calmly carrying it out of defence... HOOF. Ahh, the Shawcross can't play football bollocks. You don't come through Man United's academy and have Fergie saying he'd have kept him if you play football!! Under Hughes the diagonals he used to play out to Arnie were quality, if it was Adam doing instead half of you lot would have been playing with yourself. Under Pulis they were told to play long, it was the way he wanted to play under Hughes it was more passing and Ryan did that.
|
|
|
Post by hyaduck on Jan 12, 2021 2:17:36 GMT
On a football point of view, why on earth would anyone think Shawcross could be an upgrade. I can understand the sentimental point of view but let’s be honest, it’s not just his injuries, can anyone imagine him picking the ball up at his feet and calmly carrying it out of defence... HOOF. Ahh, the Shawcross can't play football bollocks. You don't come through Man United's academy and have Fergie saying he'd have kept him if you play football!! Under Hughes the diagonals he used to play out to Arnie were quality, if it was Adam doing instead half of you lot would have been playing with yourself. Under Pulis they were told to play long, it was the way he wanted to play under Hughes it was more passing and Ryan did that. So what was his excuse against Leicester? I don’t see Collins hoofing at every opportunity.
|
|
|
Post by tinofspam on Jan 12, 2021 3:23:26 GMT
On a football point of view, why on earth would anyone think Shawcross could be an upgrade. I can understand the sentimental point of view but let’s be honest, it’s not just his injuries, can anyone imagine him picking the ball up at his feet and calmly carrying it out of defence... HOOF. I imagine there’s more examples but I’m guessing you didn’t see our last season in the prem (wasn’t the best watch so understandable if no) where Ryan was walking it out the box constantly because nobody else was attacking. He was near enough running the ball up to (at least) the half way line constantly, just to get people up the pitch.
|
|
|
Post by kjpt140v on Jan 12, 2021 19:35:21 GMT
So because it's on a Shawcross thread it makes it relevant to Shawcross. Did I tell you my dog choked on legs brick this morning? I’ve no idea 🤷♂️ Well that's not surprising
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Jan 12, 2021 19:58:53 GMT
I dont get "emotional" over many players when it comes to contracts etc players come and go but every now and then a player comes along who becomes a club legend and Ryan is definitely that man. He's undoubtedly a Stoke City legend and I love the bloke he's right up there with the very best this club has ever had.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Jan 12, 2021 20:34:59 GMT
I dont get "emotional" over many players when it comes to contracts etc players come and go but every now and then a player comes along who becomes a club legend and Ryan is definitely that man. He's undoubtedly a Stoke City legend and I love the bloke he's right up there with the very best this club has ever had. The partnership he had with Huth was the best since we had Smith and Bloor, some of the dross we have had since Huth was sold has been dreadful, yet another terrible decision amongst the mountain sized heap of useless signings and transfers under the process.
|
|
|
Post by franklin on Jan 12, 2021 20:41:08 GMT
I dont get "emotional" over many players when it comes to contracts etc players come and go but every now and then a player comes along who becomes a club legend and Ryan is definitely that man. He's undoubtedly a Stoke City legend and I love the bloke he's right up there with the very best this club has ever had. The partnership he had with Huth was the best since we had Smith and Bloor, some of the dross we have had since Huth was sold has been dreadful, yet another terrible decision amongst the mountain sized heap of useless signings and transfers under the process. I cant think of two better partnerships in my time mate.
|
|