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Post by wherty on Jan 10, 2021 9:27:48 GMT
Need him off the wage books now legend that he is he offers nothing now going forward to where we want to be. His time has come to an end we can’t keep having past greats hanging around on big wages If offering nothing. Earning nowhere near his full wages whilst out injured. |
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Post by nottsover60 on Jan 10, 2021 10:52:59 GMT
So how many goals did Shawcross cost us opposed to Batth? Shawcross used to have two sides to his game one being on the end of set pieces. Cannot remember the last time he scored one. The other defending seems to find himself stranded in midfield if the opposition make a quick counter attack. Scoring at set pieces was a long time ago. Batth did it a few times last season but he's not doing it now. Wasn't it Shawcross yesterday though who headed it down for Vokes' chance though? He got stranded when he was tired. First half he was as good as anyone and a lot calmer. At least if he's in position he usually gets a challenge in unlike Batth who watches fast mobile forwards skip past him a la second goal. Yes Shawcross was stranded upfield but if the roles had been reversed Shawcross would have got the challenge in. As for being stranded he had every right to assume that the left wing back and Batth would be able to cope with one right winger. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Jan 10, 2021 11:09:13 GMT
In the period after his back injury and before his leg break I thought Shawcross was struggling and didn't deserve a place in the side. However I'm prepared to see if he can adapt his game and have an Indan Summer to his career - there are plenty of examples of centre backs who have done just that. First half I thought he looked fine and using the fact that a counter attacking side like Leicester pulled us apart when we switched to 433 is hardly the basis for writing him off. We'll know by Easter whether Shawcross's career is over - not on the basis one game against a team challenging for a Champions League place.
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Post by a on Jan 10, 2021 11:17:56 GMT
In the period after his back injury and before his leg break I thought Shawcross was struggling and didn't deserve a place in the side. However I'm prepared to see if he can adapt his game and have an Indan Summer to his career - there are plenty of examples of centre backs who have done just that. First half I thought he looked fine and using the fact that a counter attacking side like Leicester pulled us apart when we switched to 433 is hardly the basis for writing him off. We'll know by Easter whether Shawcross's career is over - not on the basis one game against a team challenging for a Champions League place. Fair enough. If he’s back then we’ll see O’Neill integrate him into the starting 11 and he’ll play more and more games. If he doesn’t then he’s either not fit and still injury prone or O’Neill doesn’t think he’s capable of doing it anymore. As I’ve said it’s only people’s opinion which is the point of a forum and again only time will tell. |
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Jan 10, 2021 11:21:52 GMT
Can't stand this thread title. It's really disrespectful. Can this be changed?
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Post by fortressbritannia on Jan 10, 2021 11:23:53 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 10, 2021 11:49:02 GMT
He was still way better than Danny batth Sorry, but today he wasn't!  You are writing nonsense. For his first full game in over a year he was surprisingly good. Tired (as did Allen which explains the third goal) after an hour but has now got miles in his legs. Great interception on their 4th but no-one around to back him up. I would pair him with Collins and 2 proper full backs, Souttar is good at some aspects but makes mistakes and is positionally all over the shop, Collins is raw but massive potential |
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Jan 10, 2021 11:59:20 GMT
In the period after his back injury and before his leg break I thought Shawcross was struggling and didn't deserve a place in the side. However I'm prepared to see if he can adapt his game and have an Indan Summer to his career - there are plenty of examples of centre backs who have done just that. First half I thought he looked fine and using the fact that a counter attacking side like Leicester pulled us apart when we switched to 433 is hardly the basis for writing him off. We'll know by Easter whether Shawcross's career is over - not on the basis one game against a team challenging for a Champions League place. You are prepared,?. Do you pick the team. He has had five seasons to prove it. Shawcross is not good enough, we have better |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 10, 2021 12:00:17 GMT
Sorry, but today he wasn't! You are writing nonsense. For his first full game in over a year he was surprisingly good. Tired (as did Allen which explains the third goal) after an hour but has now got miles in his legs. Great interception on their 4th but no-one around to back him up. I would pair him with Collins and 2 proper full backs, Souttar is good at some aspects but makes mistakes and is positionally all over the shop, Collins is raw but massive potential The third goal was a result of Shawcross first missing when he should receive the ball, then he chose to put a teammate in a difficult situation with a pass he never should have played and because of this he was also out of the position for their third. The clearance for the last one should have been put out of play and not back in a dangerous position. At this level you should expect players to make good decisions, and especially experienced players like Ryan. He also had a similar clearance in the first half that luckily fell to a teammate, but really should have been cleared further up the field or out of play. I've always been an admirer of Ryan, but I'm not so biased that I can't see the glaring obvious! If you still think you're right about the two last goals you should have a second look, and if you still think the same, well..... I won't say more about that! He played OK in the first half, but his involvement in the last two made it a mark 4 performance for me as a game lasts for 90 minutes + added time.  |
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Jan 10, 2021 12:23:16 GMT
Great player that he's been over the years that was pretty awful and a shame but we need to move him out in the summer. His wage is far better going to some younger players that can actually keep up with the pace of a game. He has nowhere near awful yesterday. I thought he was as good as any stoke player on the pitch, if not better, he was barking orders and marshalling also. Obviously he’s getting closer to finishing, but I don’t think he should yet. Disagree with your post. |
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 10, 2021 13:49:11 GMT
No mate fair enough if he gets fully fit and stays fit then yea. I’m just sadly very much doubting that will be reality. He was a fucking top top centre half but hasn’t been fit for a few seasons now and I don’t think he will get back to that. Such a shame but if he did then Christ that would be ace Finally. An 80% fit shawcross is better option than baath or Chester. Shawcross and Souttar with collins at rb is our best combination with flat back four with clucas at lb. |
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Jan 10, 2021 13:52:15 GMT
In the period after his back injury and before his leg break I thought Shawcross was struggling and didn't deserve a place in the side. However I'm prepared to see if he can adapt his game and have an Indan Summer to his career - there are plenty of examples of centre backs who have done just that. First half I thought he looked fine and using the fact that a counter attacking side like Leicester pulled us apart when we switched to 433 is hardly the basis for writing him off. We'll know by Easter whether Shawcross's career is over - not on the basis one game against a team challenging for a Champions League place. You are prepared,?. Do you pick the team. He has had five seasons to prove it. Shawcross is not good enough, we have better We really don't. Shawcross with one of Souttar/Collins please, even with all his injuries he's still quicker and better than baath/chester |
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Post by stokiejoeofalsager on Jan 10, 2021 14:00:29 GMT
Once some of you get an idea of something you really will do anything to make reality fit. He was far from the worst player on the pitch. He’ll take time to get back up to speed but he’ll be a great asset as he has been for the past 15 years or so.
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Post by jeycov on Jan 10, 2021 14:08:43 GMT
Should have been subbed a bit earlier yesterday, decent first half imo
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Post by kjpt140v on Jan 10, 2021 18:48:38 GMT
What's that got yo do with Shawcross? It’s in the Shawcross thread, re read through So because it's on a Shawcross thread it makes it relevant to Shawcross. Did I tell you my dog choked on legs brick this morning? |
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 10, 2021 18:52:55 GMT
Once some of you get an idea of something you really will do anything to make reality fit. He was far from the worst player on the pitch. He’ll take time to get back up to speed but he’ll be a great asset as he has been for the past 15 years or so. As long as we play Brown the others don't have to worry of being the worst! |
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Post by meirman61 on Jan 10, 2021 19:12:57 GMT
Yes I did watch the match on BBC iPlayer and as far as seeing him at his best I certainly have and even then he was far from a legend. I started going to Stoke in the late 70's and have seen a lot of Centre backs come and go. When I first went we had Mike Doyle (hard as nails) and Dennis Smith. I've seen the likes of Dave Watson superb international defender. Steve Bould who left and Joined Arsenal with Lee Dixon. All far better players than Shawcross. Ian Cranson,Vinny Overson to name a few more. Ryan has been a solid performer over a long period and he will rightly be remembered fondly by a number of supporters for his contribution to our club but it has been plain to see even in the relegation season that he was struggling to perform regularly and persistent back problems have hampered his form. The end of the road has come for him in my opinion and he is better just now being used very sparingly if at all and remembered for his pomp days. I saw all of those and Smith alongside Bloor was my favourite but Shawcross ranks alongside either of those. No doubt you are one of the people who reckon he only looked good alongside Huth despite carrying on for several years after he left. Just perhaps the long ball was what his manager wanted. I'd take his long balls any day over Batth's Cranny and Overson were decent but tell me how many games did they play in the Prem for us? |
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Post by boweryboy on Jan 10, 2021 19:16:37 GMT
Well based on that game and it's the end for Shawcross as stated,then it's got to be the end for Vokes, McLean,Mikel,Batth, Allen,Smith and Clucas !!
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Post by ohbottom on Jan 10, 2021 19:33:13 GMT
There isn't half some shit been spouted on this thread.
He's played hardly any competitive football for the last 18 months and been plagued by injuries for years, yet 1st half yesterday, playing against a team at the top of the division above us, he looked very good, calm and assured and his experience shone out. 2nd half his lack of match fitness (unsurprisingly) was obvious and he was looking knackered after 60 minutes. Really should have been subbed, but he was far from our worst player and showed enough class that he should be able to still do a good job at our level (fitness allowing).
There's folk on here saying the likes of Cranny and Overson were "far better players" than Shawcross. WTF planet are you from? I loved both those players, but Cranny never played in the top division for us and was certainly never in the running for an England place, which Ryan deservedly was; and Vince never played at top level for anyone. Neither were remotely on a par with Shawcross.
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Post by sharonbeech21 on Jan 10, 2021 19:34:11 GMT
I would play Shawcross before Danny Bartth always
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 10, 2021 19:38:51 GMT
I’m still at a loss with this.
He was absolutely fine yesterday. All the centre backs were.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2021 19:39:20 GMT
Class is permanent, form is temporary. or maybe more apt...Time and tide wait for no man |
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Post by Linx on Jan 10, 2021 19:42:57 GMT
All this fretting and fettling about the defence misses the main issue: we have lost the ability to score goals.
It’s pretty obvious that Ryan needs time to build up to full match fitness, so basing all this argument on one game when he is building up to full fitness is a bit silly. He is a class act, whose age might be slowing him down but, when fully up to speed, he is still at least as good as anyone else we have, while his experience is second to none. Start worrying about the forward play, because that’s where we’re struggling right now.
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Post by foxysgloves on Jan 10, 2021 20:10:33 GMT
Quite often posts on here annoy me.
Sometimes they piss me off.
Every now and again though they make me livid, foaming at the mouth, fucking furious.
Yesterday was pretty grim all round. Outclassed by a very decent side. Even though we had early opportunities to make a game of it.
But.
To suggest on the basis of that game. In a thrown together team. Against top quality opposition. To suggest. That the greatest defender we’ve had in the last twenty years is finished.
That’s horseshit of a type rarely spouted. Even on here.
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Post by hughjarse on Jan 10, 2021 20:10:34 GMT
I’m still at a loss with this. He was absolutely fine yesterday. All the centthebacks were. I don't get this at all. I have been writing him off for a while now but was actually quite encouraged yesterday (apart from last 20 minutes when he got tired and should have been taken off). Decent performance and can see him playing a role between now and the end of the season |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Jan 10, 2021 20:21:36 GMT
I’m still at a loss with this. He was absolutely fine yesterday. All the centthebacks were. I don't get this at all. I have been writing him off for a while now but was actually quite encouraged yesterday (apart from last 20 minutes when he got tired and should have been taken off). Decent performance and can see him playing a role between now and the end of the season Yeah I saw nothing but hope really. Especially when there was a through ball to Perez and he just cruised to get it. He’s always been deceptively quick and it was still there. |
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Post by silsdenstokie on Jan 10, 2021 20:41:02 GMT
I would play Shawcross before Danny Bartth always To be fair I didnt think Batth was that bad yesterday either. All the problems Leicester caused us seemed to stem from down the flanks. Ryan one of the few positives for me though |
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Post by a on Jan 11, 2021 3:44:28 GMT
It’s in the Shawcross thread, re read through So because it's on a Shawcross thread it makes it relevant to Shawcross. Did I tell you my dog choked on legs brick this morning? I’ve no idea 🤷♂️ |
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Post by Olgrligm on Jan 11, 2021 7:06:59 GMT
So to sum up:
Goal 1 was poor from Smith and Allen but a freakishly superb finish.
Goal 2 was an excellent pass and bit of play that caught out McClean and Batth.
Goal 3 saw the entire team stop to watch the ball go out while Leicester played on. Nobody from midfield bothered to follow runners or cover the defence.
Goal 4 came when Shawcross, the only player with any interest in defending at this point, read the game, got his positioning right and made an excellent interception. Alas, the midfield couldn't be bothered helping out and so there was no follow up to clear the ball.
Two superb goals to pin on Smith/McClean and two goals that were a direct result of the switch from all out defence to all out attack with an absent midfield. Conclusion: Shawcross is finished?!
Then we've got the full-on insanity of a player with 400ish Premier League games for us being negatively compared to a pair of third division defenders. That's even crazier than the idea that he was carried by Huth, despite consistently one of the best PL defenders for the majority of Hughes' reign. Complete madness.
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Post by stantheman on Jan 11, 2021 8:34:05 GMT
So to sum up: Goal 1 was poor from McClean and Allen but a freakishly superb finish. Goal 2 was an excellent pass and bit of play that caught out McClean and Batth. Goal 3 saw the entire team stop to watch the ball go out while Leicester played on. Nobody from midfield bothered to follow runners or cover the defence. Goal 4 came when Shawcross, the only player with any interest in defending at this point, read the game, got his positioning right and made an excellent interception. Alas, the midfield couldn't be bothered helping out and so there was no follow up to clear the ball. Two superb goals to pin on McClean and two goals that were a direct result of the switch from all out defence to all out attack with an absent midfield. Conclusion: Shawcross is finished?! Then we've got the full-on insanity of a player with 400ish Premier League games for us being negatively compared to a pair of third division defenders. That's even crazier than the idea that he was carried by Huth, despite consistently one of the best PL defenders for the majority of Hughes' reign. Complete madness. The 1st goal was Smith & Allen, McClean was on the other side of the pitch. So un-pin that one. |
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