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Post by lordb on Jan 1, 2021 19:01:07 GMT
Green politics is completely marginalised in this country and will continue to be as the first past the post system will continue to result in Conservative governments for the foreseeable future. If we do turn to the USA, in general, that's only going to get worse. Sensibly European policies will continue to be eschewed as anti British. Pathetic state of affairs. I agree with that, except to say we don't HAVE to go the USA way. Also I think that " we " are having to become more environmentally aware. I would like to see proportional representation. the current system encourages short termism, immediate " rewards" and decisions made with the next election in mind, not " doing the right thing" and with 50 years in mind I really don't think that we can predict the next 5 years, politically I'll predict more scandals a la the later part of the Major govt.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 1, 2021 19:27:29 GMT
I agree with that, except to say we don't HAVE to go the USA way. Also I think that " we " are having to become more environmentally aware. I would like to see proportional representation. the current system encourages short termism, immediate " rewards" and decisions made with the next election in mind, not " doing the right thing" and with 50 years in mind I really don't think that we can predict the next 5 years, politically I'll predict more scandals a la the later part of the Major govt. I predict more tension with the EU as we assert our independence, pressure on Boris to offer Scots the referendum but Boris actually retrieving some popularity.....but of course anything can happen
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 1, 2021 19:40:11 GMT
Green politics is completely marginalised in this country and will continue to be as the first past the post system will continue to result in Conservative governments for the foreseeable future. If we do turn to the USA, in general, that's only going to get worse. Sensibly European policies will continue to be eschewed as anti British. Pathetic state of affairs. I agree with that, except to say we don't HAVE to go the USA way. Also I think that " we " are having to become more environmentally aware. I would like to see proportional representation. the current system encourages short termism, immediate " rewards" and decisions made with the next election in mind, not " doing the right thing" and with 50 years in mind I really don't think that we can predict the next 5 years, politically I don't want to turn a food thread into a debate on electoral systems. I have thought about the subject for half a century since when I was a member of the Liberal Party. I think there is a great danger of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. Other countries have huge problems with proportional representation. Long periods without government while parties negotiate, persistent instability e.g. Italy, deals done behind closed doors, parties abandoning their principles and policies to grab power e.g. Lib Dems., small parties having undue influence holding the balance of power, the same politicians on the "approved list" for constituencies, I could go on, but will leave it by saying look how impotent May was without a majority. I agree about short termism, but that is a cultural thing not political. Germans and Japanese think long term, we British don't. Maybe the answer is a proportional representation second chamber.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 1, 2021 20:13:18 GMT
I agree with that, except to say we don't HAVE to go the USA way. Also I think that " we " are having to become more environmentally aware. I would like to see proportional representation. the current system encourages short termism, immediate " rewards" and decisions made with the next election in mind, not " doing the right thing" and with 50 years in mind I really don't think that we can predict the next 5 years, politically I don't want to turn a food thread into a debate on electoral systems. I have thought about the subject for half a century since when I was a member of the Liberal Party. I think there is a great danger of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. Other countries have huge problems with proportional representation. Long periods without government while parties negotiate, persistent instability e.g. Italy, deals done behind closed doors, parties abandoning their principles and policies to grab power e.g. Lib Dems., small parties having undue influence holding the balance of power, the same politicians on the "approved list" for constituencies, I could go on, but will leave it by saying look how impotent May was without a majority. I agree about short termism, but that is a cultural thing not political. Germans and Japanese think long term, we British don't. Maybe the answer is a proportional representation second chamber. We agree on most things MrCoke but not this. May's government and the LibCon coalition weren't as a result of Proportional representation but the predictable worst examples of the current fptp system...the political duopoly ( i don't include the Libs as a force) keeping power to themselves. A change to fptp could revitalise uk politics, now an unrepresentative remnant of the lef/ right class war. Every vote would count. At present people are disillusioned, largely disenfranchised and don't vote. Look at this board, a continuous criticism of one side by the other and vice versa, with no real addressing of the issues pragmatically.....too much party loyalty. The referendum showed that people do want a say. There could/ may be problems but not necessarily so. A strong government does not make it representative. It took pressure from the outside parliament/ Farage to achieve real change. And he is not loyal to a " party".
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 1, 2021 23:21:57 GMT
I don't want to turn a food thread into a debate on electoral systems. I have thought about the subject for half a century since when I was a member of the Liberal Party. I think there is a great danger of jumping out of the frying pan into the fire. Other countries have huge problems with proportional representation. Long periods without government while parties negotiate, persistent instability e.g. Italy, deals done behind closed doors, parties abandoning their principles and policies to grab power e.g. Lib Dems., small parties having undue influence holding the balance of power, the same politicians on the "approved list" for constituencies, I could go on, but will leave it by saying look how impotent May was without a majority. I agree about short termism, but that is a cultural thing not political. Germans and Japanese think long term, we British don't. Maybe the answer is a proportional representation second chamber. We agree on most things MrCoke but not this. May's government and the LibCon coalition weren't as a result of Proportional representation but the predictable worst examples of the current fptp system...the political duopoly ( i don't include the Libs as a force) keeping power to themselves. A change to fptp could revitalise uk politics, now an unrepresentative remnant of the lef/ right class war. Every vote would count. At present people are disillusioned, largely disenfranchised and don't vote. Look at this board, a continuous criticism of one side by the other and vice versa, with no real addressing of the issues pragmatically.....too much party loyalty. The referendum showed that people do want a say. There could/ may be problems but not necessarily so. A strong government does not make it representative. It took pressure from the outside parliament/ Farage to achieve real change. And he is not loyal to a " party". I can't really disagree strongly with you. Maybe, just as I fell out of love with the EU, as I have got older I am totally disillusioned by British politicians and can only see the inevitable wheeling and dealing that would go on between totally untrustworthy people to form a coalition government. Consequently after sleaze, expense scandals, Lib Dem reneging on elections promises to join Cameron to prop up a Tory government, the farce during May's premiership where no one could agree anything - just vote against everything, I am extremely distrustful of politicians. At least under the present system MPs are accountable to their constituents who can get rid at the next election. I never thought I would see what happened in North Staffs and Co Durham in the last election and Tories voted in. Which just goes to show how strongly the public thought about the issues. I hate the idea of electoral list with the Party "blue-eyed boys (and girls) " getting preferential treatment for seats in parliament. What is the best electoral system? This American article has a few ideas. www.electoral-reform.org.uk/new-zealands-mmp-electoral-system-how-does-it-work/I am not in favour of any system, just wary of losing what we have and getting something worse. Italy has had 61 governments since 1945, because like our MPs they can't agree with each other, not for long anyway. The Dutch took 225 days to form a government in 2017, which is not novel they took 208 days in 1977, and the average time for Dutch politicians to wheel and deal after an election to agree a government is 90 days. PR is not always what it is cracked up to be, and I am very wary. May's period of government made us the laughing stock of Europe if not the world and I fear it happening after every general election with PR. Unlike Brexit though I am not passionate about the subject, just very cynical.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 2, 2021 10:37:44 GMT
We agree on most things MrCoke but not this. May's government and the LibCon coalition weren't as a result of Proportional representation but the predictable worst examples of the current fptp system...the political duopoly ( i don't include the Libs as a force) keeping power to themselves. A change to fptp could revitalise uk politics, now an unrepresentative remnant of the lef/ right class war. Every vote would count. At present people are disillusioned, largely disenfranchised and don't vote. Look at this board, a continuous criticism of one side by the other and vice versa, with no real addressing of the issues pragmatically.....too much party loyalty. The referendum showed that people do want a say. There could/ may be problems but not necessarily so. A strong government does not make it representative. It took pressure from the outside parliament/ Farage to achieve real change. And he is not loyal to a " party". I can't really disagree strongly with you. Maybe, just as I fell out of love with the EU, as I have got older I am totally disillusioned by British politicians and can only see the inevitable wheeling and dealing that would go on between totally untrustworthy people to form a coalition government. Consequently after sleaze, expense scandals, Lib Dem reneging on elections promises to join Cameron to prop up a Tory government, the farce during May's premiership where no one could agree anything - just vote against everything, I am extremely distrustful of politicians. At least under the present system MPs are accountable to their constituents who can get rid at the next election. I never thought I would see what happened in North Staffs and Co Durham in the last election and Tories voted in. Which just goes to show how strongly the public thought about the issues. I hate the idea of electoral list with the Party "blue-eyed boys (and girls) " getting preferential treatment for seats in parliament. What is the best electoral system? This American article has a few ideas. www.electoral-reform.org.uk/new-zealands-mmp-electoral-system-how-does-it-work/I am not in favour of any system, just wary of losing what we have and getting something worse. Italy has had 61 governments since 1945, because like our MPs they can't agree with each other, not for long anyway. The Dutch took 225 days to form a government in 2017, which is not novel they took 208 days in 1977, and the average time for Dutch politicians to wheel and deal after an election to agree a government is 90 days. PR is not always what it is cracked up to be, and I am very wary. May's period of government made us the laughing stock of Europe if not the world and I fear it happening after every general election with PR. Unlike Brexit though I am not passionate about the subject, just very cynical. I agree with your point about constituency MMPs, concerned with local issues and answerable locally. I do want that, and this is the big issue for the fptp/proportional representation debate for me. (Leaving aside that about a third of the electorate don't vote , which is a major issue that the political class are happy to accept....and it is probably these people who need a voice), the " funny thing" is that, imo, most people vote for the party not the local person, for the future Prime minister, not the local representative....ie " Are you voting Labour or Tory?", " Are you voting for Boris or Jeremy?"...rarely do you hear" Are you voting for Dave Jones or Jane Smith?".....hence we could end up with " anybody " in post...as long as they are blue or red. I think it definitely needs changing and I believe it is the only way that parties ( so called) left of centre will get a look in, in the future compared to the " natural party of government " So for me any reform should include abolishing the House of Lords ( should be Labour absolute priority, if they weren't so concerned with internal matters, griping and looking back)...Perhaps we could start by looking at other systems across the world....I believe that in the German system the voter gets two votes, one for the local person in one chamber one for the " proportional representation " person as part of the national government....not ideal, I believe some Germans don't understand why they get two votes, and others on the EEboard will know more about it than me.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 2, 2021 11:37:39 GMT
To return to the thread topic, I thought I would post this information on food exports: www.smylies.com/latest-news/what-food-does-the-uk-export/As I mentioned in an earlier post, the cereal market is very complex with products going in both directions across our borders. Many figures for food imports are bandied around, depending on whether you are talking about tonnages, value, "farm gate" production or retail sales post processing, or raw materials or end products. A major item is tea in the UK, some people count it as imported and some as a UK product as it is all processed in the UK. I do believe though that there is major potential for increasing UK self sufficiency if we invest like the Dutch, be more loyal to our own farmers like the French, give farmers capital grants to make their farms more efficient like poly-tunnels to effectively increase the length of the season and yield, invest in chilling facilities so we can grow more vegetables and chill them till sold, reduce wastage, etc. I accept that many products will not realistically be produced in large quantities, but we may be surprised by global warming. Currently English wine production is booming and other produce may follow. Change will be driven by finance. The EU will not be able to spend so much on CAP due to UK leaving and post pandemic financial measures; Macron has already said this. So our imports from the EU will be more expensive, which of will be blamed on Brexit, when it was our money subsidising and going to happen anyway. But this change will motivate our farmers to produce more by higher prices and it will open the door to food imports from RoW. Africa is expanding its food production rapidly, but whether we should buy it and let other parts of Africa starve has moral issues.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 5, 2021 17:00:27 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 7, 2021 11:48:00 GMT
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 13, 2021 11:11:49 GMT
I wonder if we need to move away from meat We don't need to move away from meat, but we will be told we need to in the coming years. Want a nice steak? No, no, only the rich & powerful can eat food like that, you'll make do with your insect burger & be greatful.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 22, 2021 15:48:31 GMT
Our friends from "in the future you'll own nothing & be happy" are now helping to push it.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 22, 2021 16:22:02 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Jan 22, 2021 16:23:58 GMT
There always a problem getting chickens at this time of year. They struggle to cross the road unless they’ve been gritted.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 4, 2021 18:55:56 GMT
We don't need to move away from meat, but we will be told we need to in the coming years. Want a nice steak? No, no, only the rich & powerful can eat food like that, you'll make do with your insect burger & be greatful.
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Feb 4, 2021 21:37:40 GMT
We should eat more insects. Some are pretty tasty and they're full of protein. I ate ants as they fell onto me from a tree in Cambodia.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 16, 2021 12:20:52 GMT
We don't need to move away from meat, but we will be told we need to in the coming years. Want a nice steak? No, no, only the rich & powerful can eat food like that, you'll make do with your insect burger & be greatful. Of course, what he actually means is "The working classes".
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Post by ColonelMustard on Feb 18, 2021 6:57:43 GMT
So the last two things in the supermarket are French Beef and British Mealworms. Which you are you having for tea?
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 29, 2021 15:20:33 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on May 2, 2021 20:52:36 GMT
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Post by The Drunken Communist on May 14, 2021 7:41:17 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on May 18, 2021 20:30:57 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2021 21:12:59 GMT
We should eat more insects. Some are pretty tasty and they're full of protein. I ate ants as they fell onto me from a tree in Cambodia. The more legs the better in Cambodia but never joined in the insect thing there. Would rather eat crunchy crickets than Turkish Delight to be fair though.
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Post by mrcoke on May 21, 2021 22:21:29 GMT
The Sustainable Farming Incentive is the next step due to start in September in the Government’s plans to reward farmers and land managers for sustainable farming practices that enhance the environment. It is one of a number of initiatives the government is launching with the end of the CAP and will help to deliver on the 25 Year Environment Plan and carbon net zero targets.
2,178 farmers responded to the Expressions of Interest that opened in March. Successful candidates will be contacted by the end of May and will be asked to develop their applications from June, leading to the first pilot agreements going live from October 2021. Interest came from a diverse range of farms and regions in England which will ensure good nationwide coverage when the pilot is implemented.
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Post by mrcoke on May 24, 2021 7:51:20 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Jun 4, 2021 10:15:14 GMT
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Post by Widget123 on Jun 6, 2021 20:41:37 GMT
Haha Brasseye was well ahead of the game on this one! 🤣
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Post by Dave the Rave on Jun 6, 2021 20:51:28 GMT
I personally wouldn't have any issue with meat that's been 'grown'. Providing it's safe and offers the same nutritional benefits I can't see any reason to oppose it.
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Post by musik on Jun 6, 2021 23:23:33 GMT
I personally wouldn't have any issue with meat that's been 'grown'. Providing it's safe and offers the same nutritional benefits I can't see any reason to oppose it. No chicken had to die? 🧓
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 11, 2021 9:29:12 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 8, 2021 9:08:13 GMT
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