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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 27, 2020 11:42:20 GMT
I wonder if we need to move away from meat We don't need to move away from meat, but we will be told we need to in the coming years. Want a nice steak? No, no, only the rich & powerful can eat food like that, you'll make do with your insect burger & be greatful. It's basically a choice between everyone eating as much meat as we want to and having rainforests left on Earth. I ran the number a while ago and reckon everyone could get a quarter pounder (beef or lamb) and about a pound of poultry (or a bit less of pork) each week, and if we all did that the rainforests would be fine. The Impossible burger is nice at least. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 27, 2020 11:46:48 GMT
In all seriousness is there much if any capacity for Britain to produce more food? Stop greedy property developers getting building approval on green field sites, plenty of derelict brown field sites in this country mainly in towns and cities, stop mass immigration, sub letting property by criminals to illegal immigrants deport all illegals, less people less demand simple really. How much greenfield land do you expect to save, and what's its food output? How many immigrants do you expect to stop, and how many that're here do you expect to deport? |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 27, 2020 12:43:10 GMT
Stop greedy property developers getting building approval on green field sites, plenty of derelict brown field sites in this country mainly in towns and cities, stop mass immigration, sub letting property by criminals to illegal immigrants deport all illegals, less people less demand simple really. How much greenfield land do you expect to save, and what's its food output? How many immigrants do you expect to stop, and how many that're here do you expect to deport? If you have acres of greenfield site covered with houses you can not grow crops or house beasts is that difficult to understand, plenty of brownfield sites available for housing in the UK, in an ideal world all illegal immigrants would be stopped, in an ideal world all illegal immigrants would be deported what do they contribute to our economy ? they are here illegally and "have no rights to benefits, social housing or services" as far as I can see they are of no use to the country. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 27, 2020 16:12:11 GMT
How much greenfield land do you expect to save, and what's its food output? How many immigrants do you expect to stop, and how many that're here do you expect to deport? If you have acres of greenfield site covered with houses you can not grow crops or house beasts is that difficult to understand, plenty of brownfield sites available for housing in the UK, in an ideal world all illegal immigrants would be stopped, in an ideal world all illegal immigrants would be deported what do they contribute to our economy ? they are here illegally and "have no rights to benefits, social housing or services" as far as I can see they are of no use to the country. I was wondering about food and whether the trade off is good. When I worked it out about 0.6 hectares of pasture makes calories to feed a person for a year, so your choice is food for a person or about a dozen homes. Obviously it's a bit silly since hardly anyone just eats beef, but it's the sort of tradeoff you're looking at, and I didn't think that banning greenfield building is a great tradeoff. What are the barriers to building on brownfield sites? Seems obvious they should be going already but I don't know the details, and the Campaign to Protect Rural England paid for a report saying we could get a million that way, about a third of what we need. Covid might help if it frees up some office building land. |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 27, 2020 17:47:25 GMT
If you have acres of greenfield site covered with houses you can not grow crops or house beasts is that difficult to understand, plenty of brownfield sites available for housing in the UK, in an ideal world all illegal immigrants would be stopped, in an ideal world all illegal immigrants would be deported what do they contribute to our economy ? they are here illegally and "have no rights to benefits, social housing or services" as far as I can see they are of no use to the country. I was wondering about food and whether the trade off is good. When I worked it out about 0.6 hectares of pasture makes calories to feed a person for a year, so your choice is food for a person or about a dozen homes. Obviously it's a bit silly since hardly anyone just eats beef, but it's the sort of tradeoff you're looking at, and I didn't think that banning greenfield building is a great tradeoff. What are the barriers to building on brownfield sites? Seems obvious they should be going already but I don't know the details, and the Campaign to Protect Rural England paid for a report saying we could get a million that way, about a third of what we need. Covid might help if it frees up some office building land. A third is a hell of a lot but I take your point, brown field sites should imo always be the preferred location, what are your thought's on the question I put to you regarding illegal immigrants apparently there are 250,000 per year coming into our country, how are they supporting themselves where are they been housed ? |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 28, 2020 21:38:42 GMT
I was wondering about food and whether the trade off is good. When I worked it out about 0.6 hectares of pasture makes calories to feed a person for a year, so your choice is food for a person or about a dozen homes. Obviously it's a bit silly since hardly anyone just eats beef, but it's the sort of tradeoff you're looking at, and I didn't think that banning greenfield building is a great tradeoff. What are the barriers to building on brownfield sites? Seems obvious they should be going already but I don't know the details, and the Campaign to Protect Rural England paid for a report saying we could get a million that way, about a third of what we need. Covid might help if it frees up some office building land. A third is a hell of a lot but I take your point, brown field sites should imo always be the preferred location, what are your thought's on the question I put to you regarding illegal immigrants apparently there are 250,000 per year coming into our country, how are they supporting themselves where are they been housed ? I'd rather have legal immigration, but legal stuff doesn't really affect how much food you eat, does it? And this topic is about food. I think we need a lot more immigrants to prop up our finances, unless we're willing to cut benefits for pension-age people. Or if you moved the pension age to 70 next year then we might be able to get away without as many immigrants. I'm pretty relaxed about our food situation tbh, lots of what we import is for luxury or variety and I think that's pretty good tbh. I love a bit of chocolate or curry spice. I would like to know how well we'd do if we were completely cut off from trade with others, or how long it would take us to adjust. Maybe we need more things like Thanet Earth, all this new farming tech looks incredible and I expect the worst case is we'd end up with more boring vegetables and less meat, provided we get enough warning about any food cutoffs. |
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Post by lordb on Dec 28, 2020 21:42:17 GMT
A third is a hell of a lot but I take your point, brown field sites should imo always be the preferred location, what are your thought's on the question I put to you regarding illegal immigrants apparently there are 250,000 per year coming into our country, how are they supporting themselves where are they been housed ? I'd rather have legal immigration, but legal stuff doesn't really affect how much food you eat, does it? And this topic is about food. I think we need a lot more immigrants to prop up our finances, unless we're willing to cut benefits for pension-age people. Or if you moved the pension age to 70 next year then we might be able to get away without as many immigrants. I'm pretty relaxed about our food situation tbh, lots of what we import is for luxury or variety and I think that's pretty good tbh. I love a bit of chocolate or curry spice. I would like to know how well we'd do if we were completely cut off from trade with others, or how long it would take us to adjust. Maybe we need more things like Thanet Earth, all this new farming tech looks incredible and I expect the worst case is we'd end up with more boring vegetables and less meat, provided we get enough warning about any food cutoffs. If somehow we were cut off then we would starve It's not just luxury food that we import. Majority of our grain is imported, we couldn't possibly grow anywhere near enough ourselves. Fortunately we won't be cut off so it's not something to worry about. |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 28, 2020 21:55:22 GMT
A third is a hell of a lot but I take your point, brown field sites should imo always be the preferred location, what are your thought's on the question I put to you regarding illegal immigrants apparently there are 250,000 per year coming into our country, how are they supporting themselves where are they been housed ? I'd rather have legal immigration, but legal stuff doesn't really affect how much food you eat, does it? And this topic is about food. I think we need a lot more immigrants to prop up our finances, unless we're willing to cut benefits for pension-age people. Or if you moved the pension age to 70 next year then we might be able to get away without as many immigrants. I'm pretty relaxed about our food situation tbh, lots of what we import is for luxury or variety and I think that's pretty good tbh. I love a bit of chocolate or curry spice. I would like to know how well we'd do if we were completely cut off from trade with others, or how long it would take us to adjust. Maybe we need more things like Thanet Earth, all this new farming tech looks incredible and I expect the worst case is we'd end up with more boring vegetables and less meat, provided we get enough warning about any food cutoffs. How do illegal immigrants contribute to our economy ?, it's not a trick question, where do these illegals live ? again not a trick question why are we going to be cut off from food supplies ? again not a trick question, illegal is as the word implies illegal ie. against the law they should be deported without appeal immediately no papers no rights to asylum simple. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 29, 2020 11:20:32 GMT
I'd rather have legal immigration, but legal stuff doesn't really affect how much food you eat, does it? And this topic is about food. I think we need a lot more immigrants to prop up our finances, unless we're willing to cut benefits for pension-age people. Or if you moved the pension age to 70 next year then we might be able to get away without as many immigrants. I'm pretty relaxed about our food situation tbh, lots of what we import is for luxury or variety and I think that's pretty good tbh. I love a bit of chocolate or curry spice. I would like to know how well we'd do if we were completely cut off from trade with others, or how long it would take us to adjust. Maybe we need more things like Thanet Earth, all this new farming tech looks incredible and I expect the worst case is we'd end up with more boring vegetables and less meat, provided we get enough warning about any food cutoffs. If somehow we were cut off then we would starve It's not just luxury food that we import. Majority of our grain is imported, we couldn't possibly grow anywhere near enough ourselves. Fortunately we won't be cut off so it's not something to worry about. I agree the stats look bad, only producing ~2/3rds of what we buy. I think climate change is the biggest issue, if we get major drought or floods at the same time as other countries then a bad harvest + really expensive imports is bad news. Still, if it's really an emergency we could stop chucking out about 5 million tonnes of food a year for starters. Higher prices would fund more greenhouses like Thanet Earth, people would switch some meat to beans or something etc. I'd like to know how the MOD have planned for this sort of situation. If the worst comes to the worst, my cousin's got a lovely veg garden and I'm sure she could set us up with some seeds & tubers. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 29, 2020 11:33:01 GMT
I'd rather have legal immigration, but legal stuff doesn't really affect how much food you eat, does it? And this topic is about food. I think we need a lot more immigrants to prop up our finances, unless we're willing to cut benefits for pension-age people. Or if you moved the pension age to 70 next year then we might be able to get away without as many immigrants. I'm pretty relaxed about our food situation tbh, lots of what we import is for luxury or variety and I think that's pretty good tbh. I love a bit of chocolate or curry spice. I would like to know how well we'd do if we were completely cut off from trade with others, or how long it would take us to adjust. Maybe we need more things like Thanet Earth, all this new farming tech looks incredible and I expect the worst case is we'd end up with more boring vegetables and less meat, provided we get enough warning about any food cutoffs. How do illegal immigrants contribute to our economy ?, it's not a trick question, where do these illegals live ? again not a trick question why are we going to be cut off from food supplies ? again not a trick question, illegal is as the word implies illegal ie. against the law they should be deported without appeal immediately no papers no rights to asylum simple. When the topic is food it's the total number of people that matter rather than their legal status. Legal immigrants improve the UK's finances and my generation desperately needs more to help us subsidise the baby boomers' pension & health needs. Ideally we also put enough money into the system to properly handle immigration and ensure everyone is here legally, and that currently illegal people can be processed fairly to determine whether they can stay or need to be deported. If you're only focussing on food then getting rid of all the immigrants except maybe those working on farms would make us more self-sufficient. But it would also fuck our finances, and if things get so bad that we end up scaring off the best and brightest millennials/zoomers then we'd end up even more fucked. Seems like there are always trade offs to me, and I'm not so worried about the food situation so the benefits of immigration are worth it. I bet the conservatives have run the same numbers. |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 29, 2020 11:38:35 GMT
How do illegal immigrants contribute to our economy ?, it's not a trick question, where do these illegals live ? again not a trick question why are we going to be cut off from food supplies ? again not a trick question, illegal is as the word implies illegal ie. against the law they should be deported without appeal immediately no papers no rights to asylum simple. When the topic is food it's the total number of people that matter rather than their legal status. Legal immigrants improve the UK's finances and my generation desperately needs more to help us subsidise the baby boomers' pension & health needs. Ideally we also put enough money into the system to properly handle immigration and ensure everyone is here legally, and that currently illegal people can be processed fairly to determine whether they can stay or need to be deported. If you're only focussing on food then getting rid of all the immigrants except maybe those working on farms would make us more self-sufficient. But it would also fuck our finances, and if things get so bad that we end up scaring off the best and brightest millennials/zoomers then we'd end up even more fucked. Seems like there are always trade offs to me, and I'm not so worried about the food situation so the benefits of immigration are worth it. I bet the conservatives have run the same numbers. Stop deflecting from the questions I put to you regarding illegal immigrants is that so difficult the clue is in the word illegal by definition is against the law. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 29, 2020 11:46:16 GMT
When the topic is food it's the total number of people that matter rather than their legal status. Legal immigrants improve the UK's finances and my generation desperately needs more to help us subsidise the baby boomers' pension & health needs. Ideally we also put enough money into the system to properly handle immigration and ensure everyone is here legally, and that currently illegal people can be processed fairly to determine whether they can stay or need to be deported. If you're only focussing on food then getting rid of all the immigrants except maybe those working on farms would make us more self-sufficient. But it would also fuck our finances, and if things get so bad that we end up scaring off the best and brightest millennials/zoomers then we'd end up even more fucked. Seems like there are always trade offs to me, and I'm not so worried about the food situation so the benefits of immigration are worth it. I bet the conservatives have run the same numbers. Stop deflecting from the questions I put to you regarding illegal immigrants is that so difficult the clue is in the word illegal by definition is against the law. This is a food thread. If you want to go on a rant about a particular group of people you hate and want to suffer, go make your own thread. |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 29, 2020 11:55:50 GMT
Stop deflecting from the questions I put to you regarding illegal immigrants is that so difficult the clue is in the word illegal by definition is against the law. This is a food thread. If you want to go on a rant about a particular group of people you hate and want to suffer, go make your own thread. Can't or won't answer ? I don't hate them I don't know them all I know is they have no right to be here, I take it they don't eat food when they are living here illegally. |
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Post by mickmillslovechild on Dec 29, 2020 12:32:36 GMT
This is a food thread. If you want to go on a rant about a particular group of people you hate and want to suffer, go make your own thread. Can't or won't answer ? I don't hate them I don't know them all I know is they have no right to be here, I take it they don't eat food when they are living here illegally. Says the bloke who's never answered a direct question on this board in his life...until other people have answered it for him and then he can repeat their answer for himself instead. "If you only had a brain...." If you're that worried about people who make no meaningful contribution to society living here, why don't you do everyone a favour and hurry the fuck up leaving eh? |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 29, 2020 13:51:22 GMT
Can't or won't answer ? I don't hate them I don't know them all I know is they have no right to be here, I take it they don't eat food when they are living here illegally. Says the bloke who's never answered a direct question on this board in his life...until other people have answered it for him and then he can repeat their answer for himself instead. "If you only had a brain...." If you're that worried about people who make no meaningful contribution to society living here, why don't you do everyone a favour and hurry the fuck up leaving eh? Calm down Mick the quit, I didn't ask for your infantile input I don't need anyone to answer for me so why are you answering for someone else? you can answer those straight forward questions I put to him if you like give it a go Mick. |
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Post by Northy on Dec 29, 2020 16:22:43 GMT
We should eat less of it, 70% of crops are grown to feed animals in the winter. Sheep farming is a big problem with flooding from the hills, they compact the ground. We need to manage our land better. This was an interesting episode of Cornwall with Simon Reeve, with one farmer introducing his sheep to a patch of woodland and another farmer reintroducing beavers to help prevent flooding: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pjgj/cornwall-with-simon-reeve-series-1-episode-2The amount of red tape to reintroduce a beaver is ridiculously sad, and it's sad that humans only rewild places if they believe it'll be for their benefit. If that's what it takes though... Thanks, I've seen them all, my eldest's masters dissertation was on the reintroduction of beavers into the Tay valley area in Scotland He is currently on round Island off Mauritius, a now un-inhabited island, they are rewilding it after man ruined it, just about saved some trees and plant life from becoming extinct www.rathbonegreenbank.com/insight/rewild-our-islands-rewild-our-world |
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Post by mtrstudent on Dec 30, 2020 13:57:53 GMT
Can't or won't answer ? I don't hate them I don't know them all I know is they have no right to be here, I take it they don't eat food when they are living here illegally. Says the bloke who's never answered a direct question on this board in his life...until other people have answered it for him and then he can repeat their answer for himself instead. "If you only had a brain...." If you're that worried about people who make no meaningful contribution to society living here, why don't you do everyone a favour and hurry the fuck up leaving eh? I answered to a level I'm comfortale with anyway. I want a system funded that fairly processes all immigrants, including those who're here without current residency rights. I don't know enough about the legal details to have a stronger opinion than that. But crapslinger is right that more immigrants means that we need more food and more houses, but their legal status doesn't really change that. On the other hand, more immigrants helps us pay for the NHS and pensions and I think we should weigh up everything. |
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Post by crapslinger on Dec 30, 2020 14:28:45 GMT
Says the bloke who's never answered a direct question on this board in his life...until other people have answered it for him and then he can repeat their answer for himself instead. "If you only had a brain...." If you're that worried about people who make no meaningful contribution to society living here, why don't you do everyone a favour and hurry the fuck up leaving eh? I answered to a level I'm comfortale with anyway. I want a system funded that fairly processes all immigrants, including those who're here without current residency rights. I don't know enough about the legal details to have a stronger opinion than that. But crapslinger is right that more immigrants means that we need more food and more houses, but their legal status doesn't really change that. On the other hand, more immigrants helps us pay for the NHS and pensions and I think we should weigh up everything. Illegal immigrants can't work or live here legally so how do they benefit the system ? is it really that hard to understand, we need to issue all citizens here legally with ID cards which I believe would be the first step to riding the country of these illegal migrants. |
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Post by lordb on Dec 30, 2020 16:40:18 GMT
Thought this was a thread about rethinking food?
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Post by cerebralstokie on Dec 30, 2020 17:00:36 GMT
Thought this was a thread about rethinking food? Absolutely right. The problem is that we need thousands of immigrants to harvest it because Brits who might be able to do the job can't be arsed. To classify these workers as "illegal" is disgraceful. |
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Post by Dave the Rave on Dec 30, 2020 19:55:37 GMT
Can you actually imagine living a life eating nothing but that which grows on these shores if we stopped importing food and became fully self sufficient?
It's a pipe dream anyway but would also be utterly fucking drab.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 30, 2020 20:08:07 GMT
Can you actually imagine living a life eating nothing but that which grows on these shores if we stopped importing food and became fully self sufficient? It's a pipe dream anyway but would also be utterly fucking drab. May be Dave, but we have had it very good in the West, A first world problem. Some people in the world are just desperate for .....food. There may come a time when we have to be LARGELY self sufficient....I agree it is a bit of a pipe dream , but I do think it should be an aspiration. |
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Post by Dave the Rave on Dec 30, 2020 20:27:33 GMT
Can you actually imagine living a life eating nothing but that which grows on these shores if we stopped importing food and became fully self sufficient? It's a pipe dream anyway but would also be utterly fucking drab. May be Dave, but we have had it very good in the West, A first world problem. Some people in the world are just desperate for .....food. There may come a time when we have to be LARGELY self sufficient....I agree it is a bit of a pipe dream , but I do think it should be an aspiration. I'm absolutely in the sustainable farming camp and we certainly shouldn't be depriving others in the world just so we can be lavish. It's something I talk to my kids about actually, how food for many in Britain is now something to be enjoyed, rather than a necessity. I do think we have to stop and think about that sometimes. We've got whole industries based around the enjoyment and exploration of food whilst some people are starving. I do wonder whether importing food can be a part of the solution to that though, by paying foreign farmers proper prices (i.e. fair trade etc), getting big western corporations to invest in those parts of the world where we import food from to help create jobs and prosperity. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 30, 2020 20:42:05 GMT
May be Dave, but we have had it very good in the West, A first world problem. Some people in the world are just desperate for .....food. There may come a time when we have to be LARGELY self sufficient....I agree it is a bit of a pipe dream , but I do think it should be an aspiration. I'm absolutely in the sustainable farming camp and we certainly shouldn't be depriving others in the world just so we can be lavish. It's something I talk to my kids about actually, how food for many in Britain is now something to be enjoyed, rather than a necessity. I do think we have to stop and think about that sometimes. We've got whole industries based around the enjoyment and exploration of food whilst some people are starving. I do wonder whether importing food can be a part of the solution to that though, by paying foreign farmers proper prices (i.e. fair trade etc), getting big western corporations to invest in those parts of the world where we import food from to help create jobs and prosperity. I agree with what you are saying about trade Dave. I just think in the future we cannot presume that the countries that supply us will continue to do so. There has already been competition, not true cooperation, over the Covid vaccine. Macron has already " weaponised" food in the " negotiations " about controlling our own coastal waters. If you don't give us what we want we won't buy your fish. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 30, 2020 21:45:45 GMT
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Post by Vadiation_Ribe on Dec 31, 2020 20:46:43 GMT
Can you actually imagine living a life eating nothing but that which grows on these shores if we stopped importing food and became fully self sufficient? It's a pipe dream anyway but would also be utterly fucking drab. It's about finding balance, and there are plenty of foods we don't need to import. Even if the UK was self-sufficient, there would probably be more foods than you expect, though coffee might be out. There are also loads of foods we call weeds that are tasty and nutritious, but we've forgotten what they are and how to use them. |
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Dec 31, 2020 21:18:58 GMT
What's this got to do with Brexit? This thread is about whether we should import less food. Less imports = less availability. As an independent nation  we need to produce more of our own food become less reliant on the EU etc. for our supplies, hopefully Brexit will be the incentive/catalyst we need to re build our manufacturing and agricultural base don't you agree, stop the need for EU/non EU migrants to pick crops, unskilled work etc. put the physically able on benefits to work to earn their keep. We're not going back to those days, regardless if you think we should or not. We'll still be a nation that relies on imported goods, albeit at a more expensive premium. |
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 1, 2021 17:58:55 GMT
The food industry is hugely complicated and I wonder if there is anyone who truly understands it. Complications are due to its massive size, huge variety in products, the distortions caused by the CAP, the huge fluctuations (*particularly in the margins), and the extortion (I can't think of a better word) by the major supermarkets. I have already posted on the Brexit thread about our massive importation of Dutch and Belgian frozen potatoes and chips - why can't we be self sufficient? * There huge fluctuations due to the weather, so for example some years the UK is a large exporter of barley and other years not. The cereal market is very complex with imports and exports depending on demand and grade of product and distortions due to pricing. Supermarkets like to sell bread as a "loss leader" to attract customers. I once knew a fellow chemical engineer who worked for Rank Hovis McDougal who told me they made no profit on bread, they made profit dealing in flour. There are many posters in denial that we can be self sufficient in food; they should read this: www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming/If the Dutch can supply the world with food because of their inventiveness and investment, surely we can emulate them. I have made reference before to the Dutch production of tomatoes, which they produce under glass, and artificial light and supply a third of UK needs all the year round. We can do better! The Netherlands renewable energy is less than 10%, whilst the UK r e is 40% (more this year). So the UK could be greener growing tomatoes instead of buying Dutch tomatoes that cause global warming and have to be transported. The food wastage is massive all through the food chain. UK farmers have poured away milk while we buy French cheeses at the supermarket. The waste from hotel/restaurant kitchens is obscene. We need to get a lot smarter and not over produce, not waste so much, and develop better ways to recycle into animal food, fertiliser, energy, etc. I think the root problem is our lousy politicians who don't care and are incompetent and under the influence of large corporations. Raising the price of food to drive change is socially unacceptable but we have the find a way of changing the nation's habits and motivating home production. Now we are out of the CAP , government and the UK food industry need to devise ways over moving towards far greater self sufficiency. I was once shocked to learn that the Dutch steel industry benefitted from 50% grants on any environmental schemes. We should do the same for building food processing factories, helping farmers to change crops, etc. |
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Post by lordb on Jan 1, 2021 18:31:21 GMT
The food industry is hugely complicated and I wonder if there is anyone who truly understands it. Complications are due to its massive size, huge variety in products, the distortions caused by the CAP, the huge fluctuations (*particularly in the margins), and the extortion (I can't think of a better word) by the major supermarkets. I have already posted on the Brexit thread about our massive importation of Dutch and Belgian frozen potatoes and chips - why can't we be self sufficient? * There huge fluctuations due to the weather, so for example some years the UK is a large exporter of barley and other years not. The cereal market is very complex with imports and exports depending on demand and grade of product and distortions due to pricing. Supermarkets like to sell bread as a "loss leader" to attract customers. I once knew a fellow chemical engineer who worked for Rank Hovis McDougal who told me they made no profit on bread, they made profit dealing in flour. There are many posters in denial that we can be self sufficient in food; they should read this: www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming/If the Dutch can supply the world with food because of their inventiveness and investment, surely we can emulate them. I have made reference before to the Dutch production of tomatoes, which they produce under glass, and artificial light and supply a third of UK needs all the year round. We can do better! The Netherlands renewable energy is less than 10%, whilst the UK r e is 40% (more this year). So the UK could be greener growing tomatoes instead of buying Dutch tomatoes that cause global warming and have to be transported. The food wastage is massive all through the food chain. UK farmers have poured away milk while we buy French cheeses at the supermarket. The waste from hotel/restaurant kitchens is obscene. We need to get a lot smarter and not over produce, not waste so much, and develop better ways to recycle into animal food, fertiliser, energy, etc. I think the root problem is our lousy politicians who don't care and are incompetent and under the influence of large corporations. Raising the price of food to drive change is socially unacceptable but we have the find a way of changing the nation's habits and motivating home production. Now we are out of the CAP , government and the UK food industry need to devise ways over moving towards far greater self sufficiency. I was once shocked to learn that the Dutch steel industry benefitted from 50% grants on any environmental schemes. We should do the same for building food processing factories, helping farmers to change crops, etc. Green politics is completely marginalised in this country and will continue to be as the first past the post system will continue to result in Conservative governments for the foreseeable future. If we do turn to the USA, in general, that's only going to get worse. Sensibly European policies will continue to be eschewed as anti British. Pathetic state of affairs. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 1, 2021 18:58:17 GMT
The food industry is hugely complicated and I wonder if there is anyone who truly understands it. Complications are due to its massive size, huge variety in products, the distortions caused by the CAP, the huge fluctuations (*particularly in the margins), and the extortion (I can't think of a better word) by the major supermarkets. I have already posted on the Brexit thread about our massive importation of Dutch and Belgian frozen potatoes and chips - why can't we be self sufficient? * There huge fluctuations due to the weather, so for example some years the UK is a large exporter of barley and other years not. The cereal market is very complex with imports and exports depending on demand and grade of product and distortions due to pricing. Supermarkets like to sell bread as a "loss leader" to attract customers. I once knew a fellow chemical engineer who worked for Rank Hovis McDougal who told me they made no profit on bread, they made profit dealing in flour. There are many posters in denial that we can be self sufficient in food; they should read this: www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/2017/09/holland-agriculture-sustainable-farming/If the Dutch can supply the world with food because of their inventiveness and investment, surely we can emulate them. I have made reference before to the Dutch production of tomatoes, which they produce under glass, and artificial light and supply a third of UK needs all the year round. We can do better! The Netherlands renewable energy is less than 10%, whilst the UK r e is 40% (more this year). So the UK could be greener growing tomatoes instead of buying Dutch tomatoes that cause global warming and have to be transported. The food wastage is massive all through the food chain. UK farmers have poured away milk while we buy French cheeses at the supermarket. The waste from hotel/restaurant kitchens is obscene. We need to get a lot smarter and not over produce, not waste so much, and develop better ways to recycle into animal food, fertiliser, energy, etc. I think the root problem is our lousy politicians who don't care and are incompetent and under the influence of large corporations. Raising the price of food to drive change is socially unacceptable but we have the find a way of changing the nation's habits and motivating home production. Now we are out of the CAP , government and the UK food industry need to devise ways over moving towards far greater self sufficiency. I was once shocked to learn that the Dutch steel industry benefitted from 50% grants on any environmental schemes. We should do the same for building food processing factories, helping farmers to change crops, etc. Green politics is completely marginalised in this country and will continue to be as the first past the post system will continue to result in Conservative governments for the foreseeable future. If we do turn to the USA, in general, that's only going to get worse. Sensibly European policies will continue to be eschewed as anti British. Pathetic state of affairs. I agree with that, except to say we don't HAVE to go the USA way. Also I think that " we " are having to become more environmentally aware. I would like to see proportional representation. the current system encourages short termism, immediate " rewards" and decisions made with the next election in mind, not " doing the right thing" and with 50 years in mind I really don't think that we can predict the next 5 years, politically |
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we need to produce more of our own food become less reliant on the EU etc. for our supplies, hopefully Brexit will be the incentive/catalyst we need to re build our manufacturing and agricultural base don't you agree, stop the need for EU/non EU migrants to pick crops, unskilled work etc. put the physically able on benefits to work to earn their keep.
