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Post by wagsastokie on Feb 1, 2021 17:08:16 GMT
So why has wee krankie dumped cherry then There’s a civil war raging in the SNP just now - there’s a few angles to it but it’s best thought of in terms of the battle between Sturgeon and Salmond. Cherry is in the Salmond camp. It’s one of a heap of challenges Sturgeon is currently facing from school performance down the toilet, a series of disastrous economic interventions, being the drug death capital of Europe, the omnishables hate crime bill, the trans war not forgetting the relative snail like roll out the vaccine in Scotland. And that’s before you get into the Salmond trial aftermath where Salmond has accused Sturgeon of lying to Parliament. And despite all of that, Sturgeon is still flying high in the polls. Best of luck I’ve got a feeling you and my relatives are going to need it
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 1, 2021 17:11:58 GMT
So why has wee krankie dumped cherry then There’s a civil war raging in the SNP just now - there’s a few angles to it but it’s best thought of in terms of the battle between Sturgeon and Salmond. Cherry is in the Salmond camp. It’s one of a heap of challenges Sturgeon is currently facing from school performance down the toilet, a series of disastrous economic interventions, being the drug death capital of Europe, the omnishables hate crime bill, the trans war not forgetting the relative snail like roll out the vaccine in Scotland. And that’s before you get into the Salmond trial aftermath where Salmond has accused Sturgeon of lying to Parliament. And despite all of that, Sturgeon is still flying high in the polls. Cherry wanted to swap Westminster for Holyrood in May last year, but she claims, a rule change prohibited her from doing so. It would have course put Sturgeon and Cherry on a head to head course in Holyrood. Cherry has openly supported Salmond, not something that sits well with Sturgeon.
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Post by thevoid on Feb 1, 2021 19:30:37 GMT
Dare I say the Celtic fringes have been emboldened by England voting for Brexit for principle first? Wales and Cornwall voted to Leave.
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Post by thevoid on Feb 1, 2021 19:36:45 GMT
I can't see how or why we'd have to change our flag. It's a brilliant design, and they don't own any copyright over the Cross of St Andrew. There's no need to change it. Just change the blue for black And it incorporates Cornwall Red and black wouldn't work. It reminds me of the marching hammers in Another Brick in the Wall.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 2, 2021 12:03:15 GMT
It seems the war inside the SNP is starting to warm up...
Ouch.
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Post by spitthedog on Feb 2, 2021 12:16:19 GMT
Nationalism breeds Conflict and Divisiveness. It might seem like a good mend in the short term but is ultimately destructive.
If you look around the world, most nations, and aspiring nations are becoming more and more obsessed with the idea as a solution for their day to day problems and making sense of the complexities of globalisation. There are many examples, but look at India right now, which is rapidly becoming a facist state in the name of obsessive Nationalism.
Brexit was always going to stir this closer to home, because the Brexit cause was hijacked by nationalist notions (it didn't need to be, but categorically was)
The situation in NI is rapidly deteriorating.
Divisions in SNP do not surprise, because when a movement starts getting a whiff of power, or success, those egos that exist in all such movements get over stimulated.
We might scoff at the individual actors involved for the occasional bit of light relief, but it's not really a positive for anyone.
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Post by raythesailor on Feb 3, 2021 11:44:01 GMT
Should this Independence movement come about the Scots should learn a lesson from the Brexit debacle.
It would be wise to negotiate the terms and conditions of the separation IN ADVANCE and then vote on the deal having full knowledge of what they are voting for.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 3, 2021 11:55:30 GMT
Should this Independence movement come about the Scots should learn a lesson from the Brexit debacle. It would be wise to negotiate the terms and conditions of the separation IN ADVANCE and then vote on the deal having full knowledge of what they are voting for. Agreeing a deal in advance is probably not practical, but last time round they did produce a 670-page document to outline their plan in the event of a 'Yes' vote. There was still plenty of discussion about whether their plan was feasible or realistic, but there was a bit more down on paper than there was for the Brexit referendum.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 3, 2021 13:37:18 GMT
Should this Independence movement come about the Scots should learn a lesson from the Brexit debacle. It would be wise to negotiate the terms and conditions of the separation IN ADVANCE and then vote on the deal having full knowledge of what they are voting for. Agreeing a deal in advance is probably not practical, but last time round they did produce a 670-page document to outline their plan in the event of a 'Yes' vote. There was still plenty of discussion about whether their plan was feasible or realistic, but there was a bit more down on paper than there was for the Brexit referendum. I don’t think there is much debate now about the veracity of that white paper - it’s been shown to be a crock of shite. Fantasy economics and lies. (The deficiencies were highlighted at the time but dismissed as Project Fear aka please don’t ask any difficult questions. Nowadays, the SNP pretend it never happened.) It does though present an interesting philosophical question - is it better to have something that is shit or nothing at all.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 3, 2021 14:14:00 GMT
Should this Independence movement come about the Scots should learn a lesson from the Brexit debacle. It would be wise to negotiate the terms and conditions of the separation IN ADVANCE and then vote on the deal having full knowledge of what they are voting for. Surely the lesson to learn from the Brexit debacle is NOT to have any terms and conditions negotiated in advance? Much more likely to win if you just refer to taking back control, sunlit uplands etc, and replace the threat of 'swarms of immigrants' with the threat of Westminster...and leave it pretty much at that...
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 3, 2021 14:19:57 GMT
Agreeing a deal in advance is probably not practical, but last time round they did produce a 670-page document to outline their plan in the event of a 'Yes' vote. There was still plenty of discussion about whether their plan was feasible or realistic, but there was a bit more down on paper than there was for the Brexit referendum. I don’t think there is much debate now about the veracity of that white paper - it’s been shown to be a crock of shite. Fantasy economics and lies. (The deficiencies were highlighted at the time but dismissed as Project Fear aka please don’t ask any difficult questions. Nowadays, the SNP pretend it never happened.) It does though present an interesting philosophical question - is it better to have something that is shit or nothing at all. Given it never got enacted I'm guessing we'll never know whether it was fantasies and lies or not. Obviously the 'No' campaign attacked it hard and found faults in it. I would guess it's better to have something written down than nothing at all. At least that way you have a clearer idea (it will never be 100% clear of course) what was voted for and what is the way forward.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 3, 2021 14:36:30 GMT
I don’t think there is much debate now about the veracity of that white paper - it’s been shown to be a crock of shite. Fantasy economics and lies. (The deficiencies were highlighted at the time but dismissed as Project Fear aka please don’t ask any difficult questions. Nowadays, the SNP pretend it never happened.) It does though present an interesting philosophical question - is it better to have something that is shit or nothing at all. Given it never got enacted I'm guessing we'll never know whether it was fantasies and lies or not. Obviously the 'No' campaign attacked it hard and found faults in it. I would guess it's better to have something written down than nothing at all. At least that way you have a clearer idea (it will never be 100% clear of course) what was voted for and what is the way forward. Don’t take my word for it... the SNP have admitted it; Alex Salmond was wrong on 'oil is a bonus' claim, SNP independence review chief Andrew Wilson admitsThere’s plenty more examples.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 3, 2021 17:11:09 GMT
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Post by Squeekster on Feb 3, 2021 19:44:52 GMT
I say let them all go if they want but we'll have to Keep Wales as the royal mint is there and we don't want them keeping all the money that's minted there!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 22, 2021 21:01:36 GMT
Isn't it a fact that realistically neither Labour nor the Conservatives will ever again be a force in Scotland. What they stand for is irrelevant in Scotland. Devolution has sidelined them and given Scottish nationalism a platform.
The only hope to preserve the Union is that a crossperty/ non party alliance emerges during a referendum campaign to argue the case.....is a separate Unionist party needed?.....but how could this relate to the rest of the UK. Scottish Independence is more likely than not.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2021 21:11:40 GMT
would love to see Scotland and free from the UK and Wales they could put on Ebay. Scotland is a cool country. They gave us McEwans, The krankies and 'Gregory's Girl'. they can keep Rangers and kilts though
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2021 21:28:58 GMT
Isn't it a fact that realistically neither Labour nor the Conservatives will ever again be a force in Scotland. What they stand for is irrelevant in Scotland. Devolution has sidelined them and given Scottish nationalism a platform. The only hope to preserve the Union is that a crossperty/ non party alliance emerges during a referendum campaign to argue the case.....is a separate Unionist party needed?.....but how could this relate to the rest of the UK. Scottish Independence is more likely than not. What happens over the next few days could be very important with Salmond due to give evidence to a Holyrood committee followed by Sturgeon next week. I’ve said before that the unionist parties are so inept their best chance is their opponents scoring an own goal. Enter Salmond - who seems determined to bury the ball in the goal the SNP are defending. Following are the headlines this evening... The Scotsman: Alex Salmond demands resignations amid accusations of 'deliberate and malicious effort' to expel him from public life... The Herald: Alex Salmond claims Nicola Sturgeon's husband part of plot to 'imprison me'It is unprecedented and sensational stuff.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Feb 22, 2021 23:18:13 GMT
Let em go.
They clearly want it, plus it will bury the old "should Celtic and Rangers play in the English leagues" bollocks once and for all.
Quite surprised the Welsh aren't making more noise either, unless I've missed it.
We can also say we are English, which I do, instead of British.
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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2021 8:10:58 GMT
Let em go. They clearly want it, plus it will bury the old "should Celtic and Rangers play in the English leagues" bollocks once and for all. Quite surprised the Welsh aren't making more noise either, unless I've missed it. We can also say we are English, which I do, instead of British. The Welsh are generally in favour of the union
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 23, 2021 8:12:58 GMT
Let em go. They clearly want it, plus it will bury the old "should Celtic and Rangers play in the English leagues" bollocks once and for all. Quite surprised the Welsh aren't making more noise either, unless I've missed it. We can also say we are English, which I do, instead of British. From the Express:
Ian Blackford begs Rishi Sunak for £98BILLION in desperate letter - 'Scotland needs cash'
Errmmmm NO!
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Feb 23, 2021 9:12:51 GMT
Let em go. They clearly want it, plus it will bury the old "should Celtic and Rangers play in the English leagues" bollocks once and for all. Quite surprised the Welsh aren't making more noise either, unless I've missed it. We can also say we are English, which I do, instead of British. From the Express:
Ian Blackford begs Rishi Sunak for £98BILLION in desperate letter - 'Scotland needs cash'
Errmmmm NO!
The 98 billion is for the whole of the UK, and not just Scotland. It's essentially a politician calling for a stimulus to kickstart the economy post-pandemic. What an outrage.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 23, 2021 16:53:27 GMT
Let em go. They clearly want it, plus it will bury the old "should Celtic and Rangers play in the English leagues" bollocks once and for all. Quite surprised the Welsh aren't making more noise either, unless I've missed it. We can also say we are English, which I do, instead of British. The Welsh are generally in favour of the union True, although support is growing apparently.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Feb 23, 2021 16:59:41 GMT
Look at the constituency vote... And unless Alec Salmond produces a video of Wee Jimmy shagging Boris when he came up north a short while ago, it looks like another resounding majority for the SNP, not bad when PR is taken into account. FPTP would result in an almost complete annihilation for the "Westminster" parties...
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Post by lordb on Feb 23, 2021 17:19:10 GMT
The Welsh are generally in favour of the union True, although support is growing apparently. Is it? NB: That's an actual joke apologies for those who don't get it Nb2: apologies for it not being funny, best I can do at short notice
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2021 17:32:59 GMT
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 23, 2021 17:39:10 GMT
Now that Brexit has passed the only way Labour could make any inroads into Scotland again is by promising an Indy Reference but then campaigning to keep the union. Parts of Scotland are historically left wing and with the right vision some people might be swung back. I fear the ship has long since sailed though.......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 23, 2021 18:31:10 GMT
Now that Brexit has passed the only way Labour could make any inroads into Scotland again is by promising an Indy Reference but then campaigning to keep the union. Parts of Scotland are historically left wing and with the right vision some people might be swung back. I fear the ship has long since sailed though....... Prestwich, Do think that would undermine their status amongst those who believe in the Union though, especially now they have found " patriotism "?
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 23, 2021 19:52:04 GMT
I really don’t know what is going on. It’s a shambles. Salmond says he has evidence that there is a conspiracy against him and he has the evidence to prove it. Sturgeon says put up or shut up. The only problem is the evidence Salmond wants to put in the public domain is being blocked by the Crown Office. The Crown Office, btw, is a department of the Scottish Government and is said by Salmond to be part of the conspiracy. (The lack of separation of the judiciary from the executive you would think would be a cause of some concern.) Today the fiasco took another turn. Salmond’s evidence which was published yesterday was withdrawn, redacted and republished. Salmond has now decided he won’t give evidence tomorrow. It’s a fucking soap opera.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Feb 23, 2021 19:56:58 GMT
Now that Brexit has passed the only way Labour could make any inroads into Scotland again is by promising an Indy Reference but then campaigning to keep the union. Parts of Scotland are historically left wing and with the right vision some people might be swung back. I fear the ship has long since sailed though....... Prestwich, Do think that would undermine their status amongst those who believe in the Union though, especially now they have found " patriotism "? I think it would be too little too late, but they’ve been obliterated and it’s the only chance they have of gaining any foothold back in Scotland. The whole Union Jack experiment already seems to have been parked by Starmer, his latest focus group must have told him to tone it down slightly......
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 23, 2021 20:10:52 GMT
I don’t see the situation as irretrievable for Labour in Scotland.
The key thing up here is the next leader has to be... well, a Leader.
A major factor in the SNPs success in recent years has been the appalling, feeble leaders Labour has chosen... Iain Grey, Johann Lamont, Keiza Dugdale and Richard Leonard. Alec Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon have walked all over them.
I am quite encouraged by the two contenders looking to replace Leonard: Anas Sarwar and Monica Lennon. Both have far more about them than those 4 deadbeat predecessors. How Labour must long for the halcyon days of Donald Dewar, Henry McLeish and even Jack McConnell.
I appreciate this presupposes personality is more important than policy in Scottish politics. But it is the reality.
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