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Post by nantwichstokie on Nov 26, 2020 8:32:02 GMT
Or use that arm to push him into a taxi on a one way trip. Get him playing like he played for Blackpool or Derby and we'd have a great attacking threat with 4 players who can dribble, score, do the unexpected and worry defenders. With Clucas arriving late with his goal threat we'd have some great matches. At Derby I think Ince was effective because Tom Lawrence posed an equal threat on the other side. I don't think he can do it by himself which in general he's been asked to do at Stoke. I don't think having Messi on the other side with Kane down the middle would up his game tbh
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Post by tachyon on Nov 26, 2020 9:00:00 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince.
He was scoring at around 0.5 goals per 90, but his shot locations were awful. Seven goals from outside the box, the rest from low quality chances and only 3% of his attempts were from prime positions.
He was bumping up his overall attacking output by taking lots of shots (over 4 per 90), but that was eating into his creativity. He wasn’t always making the best decisions re shot verses pass.
It was a hot, unsustainable run.
2015-17 at Derby was much better from a process view.
His average shot quality increased by 25%, prime shot locations almost doubled. His shot volume decreased, but his expected assists improved by 15% because of it.
He was a much more rounded and sustainable attacking presence.
His stint in the PL with Huddersfield appears poor (just 2 goals), but up in class with a limited team (who should have gone down with us instead of WBA or Swansea), he maintained the levels he’d shown at Derby in 2015-17. Particularly his shot location, which was as good as it has ever been.
With Stoke, under three managers, he’s reverted to Derby 2014/15, either through instruction or as a comfort blanket, but without the hot finishing streak (unsustainable, remember).
His shot quality at Stoke is as low as it’s ever been, as is his percentage of shots from prime locations is also at an all-time low.
He’s a single player embodiment of the current Derby County side and where taking all your shots from terrible locations gets you.
He needs reminding by someone about how he was playing when he was a very good, productive team player at a Championship side and that was Derby 2015-17, not the flash in the pan 11 goal, half season in 2014-15.
He needs coaching.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 26, 2020 9:18:19 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince. He was scoring at around 0.5 goals per 90, but his shot locations were awful. Seven goals from outside the box, the rest from low quality chances and only 3% of his attempts were from prime positions. He was bumping up his overall attacking output by taking lots of shots (over 4 per 90), but that was eating into his creativity. He wasn’t always making the best decisions re shot verses pass. It was a hot, unsustainable run. 2015-17 at Derby was much better from a process view. His average shot quality increased by 25%, prime shot locations almost doubled. His shot volume decreased, but his expected assists improved by 15% because of it. He was a much more rounded and sustainable attacking presence. His stint in the PL with Huddersfield appears poor (just 2 goals), but up in class with a limited team (who should have gone down with us instead of WBA or Swansea), he maintained the levels he’d shown at Derby in 2015-17. Particularly his shot location, which was as good as it has ever been. With Stoke, under three managers, he’s reverted to Derby 2014/15, either through instruction or as a comfort blanket, but without the hot finishing streak (unsustainable, remember). His shot quality at Stoke is as low as it’s ever been, as is his percentage of shots from prime locations is also at an all-time low. He’s a single player embodiment of the current Derby County side and where taking all your shots from terrible locations gets you. He needs reminding by someone about how he was playing when he was a very good, productive team player at a Championship side and that was Derby 2015-17, not the flash in the pan 11 goal, half season in 2014-15. He needs coaching. That's a really good insight on a player I think could be so good in this side but has lost his way. I'm glad the statistics back up my impression that he's been a much better player elsewhere than he has at Stoke. As I said the other day my impression has always been that for some reason he has not been happy on the personal/social side here and is carrying a huge weight on his shoulders. Thanks for the input.
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Post by DC1863 on Nov 26, 2020 9:51:47 GMT
He is probably the most predictable professional player I've witnessed in my life. If he's at his lethal best on RW you can expect:
90% of the time when he receives it on the wing you can put your house on him passing it back to the full back. Maybe he does a little pointless dallying or fake crossing beforehand, but he isn't beating his man on the outside, at this point it seems physically impossible.
The other 10% of the time, if he isnt exhausted from trying the same thing in the last 30 minutes, he darts inside in defiance of his instincts. He may fake a shot, then dart a little further inside, at this point he is in full tunnel vision mode, he won't spray the ball to the left or slip a striker in; he's going for goal and he will fake shots until he gets a glimpse of the hoardings either side of the goal which the ball will inevitably end up hitting.
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Post by eddyclamp on Nov 26, 2020 10:12:28 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince. He was scoring at around 0.5 goals per 90, but his shot locations were awful. Seven goals from outside the box, the rest from low quality chances and only 3% of his attempts were from prime positions. He was bumping up his overall attacking output by taking lots of shots (over 4 per 90), but that was eating into his creativity. He wasn’t always making the best decisions re shot verses pass. It was a hot, unsustainable run. 2015-17 at Derby was much better from a process view. His average shot quality increased by 25%, prime shot locations almost doubled. His shot volume decreased, but his expected assists improved by 15% because of it. He was a much more rounded and sustainable attacking presence. His stint in the PL with Huddersfield appears poor (just 2 goals), but up in class with a limited team (who should have gone down with us instead of WBA or Swansea), he maintained the levels he’d shown at Derby in 2015-17. Particularly his shot location, which was as good as it has ever been. With Stoke, under three managers, he’s reverted to Derby 2014/15, either through instruction or as a comfort blanket, but without the hot finishing streak (unsustainable, remember). His shot quality at Stoke is as low as it’s ever been, as is his percentage of shots from prime locations is also at an all-time low. He’s a single player embodiment of the current Derby County side and where taking all your shots from terrible locations gets you. He needs reminding by someone about how he was playing when he was a very good, productive team player at a Championship side and that was Derby 2015-17, not the flash in the pan 11 goal, half season in 2014-15. He needs coaching. He needs coaching? He needs showing the door. How many coaches do you think he has had? Thought he was a shocking signing when we got him, alas I think I was right.
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Post by nottsover60 on Nov 26, 2020 10:23:50 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince. He was scoring at around 0.5 goals per 90, but his shot locations were awful. Seven goals from outside the box, the rest from low quality chances and only 3% of his attempts were from prime positions. He was bumping up his overall attacking output by taking lots of shots (over 4 per 90), but that was eating into his creativity. He wasn’t always making the best decisions re shot verses pass. It was a hot, unsustainable run. 2015-17 at Derby was much better from a process view. His average shot quality increased by 25%, prime shot locations almost doubled. His shot volume decreased, but his expected assists improved by 15% because of it. He was a much more rounded and sustainable attacking presence. His stint in the PL with Huddersfield appears poor (just 2 goals), but up in class with a limited team (who should have gone down with us instead of WBA or Swansea), he maintained the levels he’d shown at Derby in 2015-17. Particularly his shot location, which was as good as it has ever been. With Stoke, under three managers, he’s reverted to Derby 2014/15, either through instruction or as a comfort blanket, but without the hot finishing streak (unsustainable, remember). His shot quality at Stoke is as low as it’s ever been, as is his percentage of shots from prime locations is also at an all-time low. He’s a single player embodiment of the current Derby County side and where taking all your shots from terrible locations gets you. He needs reminding by someone about how he was playing when he was a very good, productive team player at a Championship side and that was Derby 2015-17, not the flash in the pan 11 goal, half season in 2014-15. He needs coaching. He needs coaching? He needs showing the door. How many coaches do you think he has had? Thought he was a shocking signing when we got him, alas I think I was right. The point is that he was a very effective championship level player when we signed him but not quite good enough for the Premier. We. have turned him into a non effective championship player for whatever reason - coaching or personal. If we could get him back to where he was he could be a good squad player and he has more talent than a lot of the wide players we have. He's on good wages and obviously not pushing to leave the club so why not try to coax the best out of him? I'm sure MON has had conversations with him about his future yet oddly keeps picking him in the match day squad but rarely uses him. His situation at Stoke perplexes me more than anyone else. There were never any transfer rumours connected to him over the summer.
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Post by callas12 on Nov 26, 2020 10:42:08 GMT
You should have added 'matches at the moment'. Unfortunately us fans played a part in that last season. When he was playing well earlier in his career I bet he loved it and I'd like to bet he enjoys training cos for someone who has hardly played this season he looked fit and lively. I just wonder how he fits in in the changing room as he always looks a bit lonely to me. I read an article about a young player over the weekend whose manager had been really worried about him because he never spoke to anyone and the manager said you generally don't succeed in football if you don't mix with the other players. That's a really good point. I just wonder if he ended up in football because of both his obvious talent and his dad's legacy, when he'd really rather be doing something else? A bit like Assou-Ekotto was, a true professional but not really in his true vocation. This could be so true & is a great point raised. Its a strange conception for people to understand but as in most walks of life & occupations, not everyone is really happy in what they do. Sometimes they get funneled into a job that they didn't necessarily want to do but they end up there, are relatively good at it & it's means to an end with the added trappings of especially in footballs case, a good wage & lifestyle. As football fans we all imagine that footy players are mad & passionate for the game, as much as we are as fans. Im sure in majority of players they are, but definitely not all. I knew an Ex Stoke players best mate & it surprised me to hear although he liked footy in general, the playing side at professional level wasn't as enjoyable for him due to training routines, restrictions on family life & other pressures that come with being in the spotlight. Suffice to say that when this player retired he moved away from football & worked in a totally different environment. I will add this player whilst playing for us always looked like he cared and gave of his best, but as a job it wasn't enjoyable for him and I was really surprised to hear this. Not saying that this definitely the category Ince falls in to but just throwing it out there that not all footballers are keen mad for football as we might think they would be. Some players are just naturally gifted & have been lucky enough I guess to either get spotted playing grass roots level, or have been given a leg up into it by a family member already connected to the game.
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Tom Ince
Nov 26, 2020 12:31:03 GMT
via mobile
Post by wakefieldstokie on Nov 26, 2020 12:31:03 GMT
He’ll be great at the next club he plays for
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Post by eddyclamp on Nov 26, 2020 13:10:31 GMT
He needs coaching? He needs showing the door. How many coaches do you think he has had? Thought he was a shocking signing when we got him, alas I think I was right. The point is that he was a very effective championship level player when we signed him but not quite good enough for the Premier. We. have turned him into a non effective championship player for whatever reason - coaching or personal. If we could get him back to where he was he could be a good squad player and he has more talent than a lot of the wide players we have. He's on good wages and obviously not pushing to leave the club so why not try to coax the best out of him? I'm sure MON has had conversations with him about his future yet oddly keeps picking him in the match day squad but rarely uses him. His situation at Stoke perplexes me more than anyone else. There were never any transfer rumours connected to him over the summer. So that`s Rowett, Jones and MON who can`t get a tune out of him. Seems to be a bit of a theme going on here.i did hear he had a move lined up in the last window but it fell through at the last minute. Don`t know the club.
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Post by Northy on Nov 26, 2020 14:23:58 GMT
He’ll be great at the next club he plays for Hanley Town in the North West Counties
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Post by Miles Offside on Nov 26, 2020 15:23:35 GMT
Ince has probably got the best technique on the ball at the club.
It's everything else that lets him down.
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Tom Ince
Nov 26, 2020 15:33:14 GMT
via mobile
Post by bgreen13 on Nov 26, 2020 15:33:14 GMT
He's had 1 maybe 2 good seasons. Maybe he should go and play for the brilliant coaches he had in that time to help him play football effectively.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Nov 26, 2020 16:04:07 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince. He was scoring at around 0.5 goals per 90, but his shot locations were awful. Seven goals from outside the box, the rest from low quality chances and only 3% of his attempts were from prime positions. He was bumping up his overall attacking output by taking lots of shots (over 4 per 90), but that was eating into his creativity. He wasn’t always making the best decisions re shot verses pass. It was a hot, unsustainable run. 2015-17 at Derby was much better from a process view. His average shot quality increased by 25%, prime shot locations almost doubled. His shot volume decreased, but his expected assists improved by 15% because of it. He was a much more rounded and sustainable attacking presence. His stint in the PL with Huddersfield appears poor (just 2 goals), but up in class with a limited team (who should have gone down with us instead of WBA or Swansea), he maintained the levels he’d shown at Derby in 2015-17. Particularly his shot location, which was as good as it has ever been. With Stoke, under three managers, he’s reverted to Derby 2014/15, either through instruction or as a comfort blanket, but without the hot finishing streak (unsustainable, remember). His shot quality at Stoke is as low as it’s ever been, as is his percentage of shots from prime locations is also at an all-time low. He’s a single player embodiment of the current Derby County side and where taking all your shots from terrible locations gets you. He needs reminding by someone about how he was playing when he was a very good, productive team player at a Championship side and that was Derby 2015-17, not the flash in the pan 11 goal, half season in 2014-15. He needs coaching. I blame the parents... images.app.goo.gl/Tw3xcA4Mn9CxeYFu7
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Post by somersetstokie on Nov 26, 2020 18:04:57 GMT
Perhaps Mr Ince has a predecessor, Dave Kitson, as one of his role models, and we can blame him.
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Post by robwahlmann on Nov 27, 2020 19:25:13 GMT
Tom Ince is a fine player who has lost his self confidence, when he starts to believe he'll be back again!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2020 21:15:02 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince. You and Nathan Jones must be the only people that hate when goals are scored for your team.
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Post by owdestokie2 on Nov 27, 2020 22:50:10 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince. He was scoring at around 0.5 goals per 90, but his shot locations were awful. Seven goals from outside the box, the rest from low quality chances and only 3% of his attempts were from prime positions. He was bumping up his overall attacking output by taking lots of shots (over 4 per 90), but that was eating into his creativity. He wasn’t always making the best decisions re shot verses pass. It was a hot, unsustainable run. 2015-17 at Derby was much better from a process view. His average shot quality increased by 25%, prime shot locations almost doubled. His shot volume decreased, but his expected assists improved by 15% because of it. He was a much more rounded and sustainable attacking presence. His stint in the PL with Huddersfield appears poor (just 2 goals), but up in class with a limited team (who should have gone down with us instead of WBA or Swansea), he maintained the levels he’d shown at Derby in 2015-17. Particularly his shot location, which was as good as it has ever been. With Stoke, under three managers, he’s reverted to Derby 2014/15, either through instruction or as a comfort blanket, but without the hot finishing streak (unsustainable, remember). His shot quality at Stoke is as low as it’s ever been, as is his percentage of shots from prime locations is also at an all-time low. He’s a single player embodiment of the current Derby County side and where taking all your shots from terrible locations gets you. He needs reminding by someone about how he was playing when he was a very good, productive team player at a Championship side and that was Derby 2015-17, not the flash in the pan 11 goal, half season in 2014-15. He needs coaching. Send your comments to MON. I’m sure he’ll take note, especially your last line. How old is Ince, how many career appearances has he made under how many managers/coaches.....But he needs coaching?
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Post by tachyon on Nov 28, 2020 8:52:48 GMT
That 18 game, 11 goal stint in 2014/15 at Derby was the worst thing that could have happened for Ince. You and Nathan Jones must be the only people that hate when goals are scored for your team. Can't speak for NJ, but I'm fine with us scoring from every shot and header we take, with a couple of dozen own goals from our opponents thrown in for good measure :-). With my analyst's head on I'd rather see a sustainable, attacking process that encourages marginal on-field gains. I wrote a piece 8 seasons ago about spreading your chances over fewer, higher quality scoring opportunities (which is a style of play I'm advocating Ince is encouraged to return to) and how it improves your final points haul for the same cumulative offensive output. How your chances are distributed in quality & quantity matters. Clued up clubs incorporated it into their attacking strategy, so I'm happy to debate with anyone using data based insight to drive easily implemented on-field change, rather than getting fooled by short-term, outcome based randomness (which is what happened to TI at Derby in 2014/15).
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Post by tachyon on Nov 28, 2020 8:55:03 GMT
Send your comments to MON. I’m sure he’ll take note, especially your last line. How old is Ince, how many career appearances has he made under how many managers/coaches.....But he needs coaching? Ooh, that's me told! "Pep, don't bother, he's nearly 29"
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Post by neckender78 on Dec 8, 2020 22:12:05 GMT
Only a short cameo but did this waster even touch the ball in open play??? Pathetic pussy of a player, really wonder what his dad must think watching him. Down to the bare bones and the likelihood of Vokes and Ince starting Saturday. Jesus fuckin wept that's over 20million in transfer fees
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Tom Ince
Dec 8, 2020 22:33:01 GMT
via mobile
Post by terryconroysmagic on Dec 8, 2020 22:33:01 GMT
He’s a fuckin turnip!
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Tom Ince
Jan 13, 2021 18:01:51 GMT
via mobile
Post by gaznandi on Jan 13, 2021 18:01:51 GMT
Translation says deal more or less agreed, hoping to overturn the travel ban to get him over for talks.
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Post by medwaypotter on Jan 13, 2021 18:03:12 GMT
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Post by gaznandi on Jan 13, 2021 18:03:35 GMT
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 13, 2021 18:04:01 GMT
Hopefully, but it seems to be an unofficial fan account
#Göztepe Our club largely made a deal with Tom Ince, 28-year-old midfielder from Stoke City. If the flight ban problem with England can be overcome, the player is expected to come to Izmir and the agreement to be concluded.
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Post by robwahlmann on Jan 13, 2021 18:04:39 GMT
Translation says deal more or less agreed, hoping to overturn the travel ban to get him over for talks. Don't understand much of that, but a loan to somewhere in Turkey?
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Tom Ince
Jan 13, 2021 18:05:37 GMT
via mobile
Post by gaznandi on Jan 13, 2021 18:05:37 GMT
Translation says deal more or less agreed, hoping to overturn the travel ban to get him over for talks. Don't understand much of that, but a loan to somewhere in Turkey? Goztepe (nope, me neither)
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Tom Ince
Jan 13, 2021 18:06:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by neddy on Jan 13, 2021 18:06:27 GMT
Good for him and us.....he needs to go elsewhere to try and find some form again.
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Post by FullerMagic on Jan 13, 2021 18:08:13 GMT
I wonder if we could manage to get one of our Undesirables placed at every D-list Turkish club?
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Post by gaznandi on Jan 13, 2021 18:09:33 GMT
Hopefully, but it seems to be an unofficial fan account #Göztepe Our club largely made a deal with Tom Ince, 28-year-old midfielder from Stoke City. If the flight ban problem with England can be overcome, the player is expected to come to Izmir and the agreement to be concluded. Turkish official press are bad enough so yeah, don't hold yer breath.
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