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Post by jeycov on Nov 22, 2020 9:19:29 GMT
Credit to MON for being an integral part in Tyrese still being here at Stoke
Vital to hold on to him for as long as possible and renew Powell’s contract
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Post by lagwafis on Nov 22, 2020 10:50:08 GMT
Ollie Watkins fee sets the bar Watkins is a fair comparison. He had three years of hitting double figures at this level - including 26 goals in his final season - before a Premier League team finally took a chance and spent big money on him. Tyrese has still got a way to go to match how consistent Watkins was over an extended period of time, but he's more than capable of matching him if he keeps this up for the next 12/18 months. Ollie Watkins 2017/18 - 48 apps 11 goals 2018/19 - 45 apps 12 goals 2019/20 - 50 apps 26 goals Sky also made a Jarrod Bowen comparison recently. Slightly different players but again someone who had to do it consistently for two and a half years in the Championship before he merited moving up to the top flight.
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Post by Bojan Mackey on Nov 22, 2020 11:33:54 GMT
Bournemouth paid £18 million for that absolutely inept shithouse Dominic Solanke.
On that basis I wouldn’t listen to anything less than £40 million for Tyrese.
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Post by eddyclamp on Nov 22, 2020 12:07:18 GMT
I think playing along side Fletcher has been a massive plus for Ty. Fletcher and Mikel have been very shrewd signings and could be the key with ty for promotion
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Post by The battheader chronicles on Nov 22, 2020 15:39:35 GMT
Been named in the team of the week again, special talent
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Post by damagedswan on Nov 22, 2020 15:47:43 GMT
Ollie Watkins fee sets the bar Watkins is a fair comparison. He had three years of hitting double figures at this level - including 26 goals in his final season - before a Premier League team finally took a chance and spent big money on him. Tyrese has still got a way to go to match how consistent Watkins was over an extended period of time, but he's more than capable of matching him if he keeps this up for the next 12/18 months. Ollie Watkins 2017/18 - 48 apps 11 goals 2018/19 - 45 apps 12 goals 2019/20 - 50 apps 26 goals Sky also made a Jarrod Bowen comparison recently. Slightly different players but again someone who had to do it consistently for two and a half years in the Championship before he merited moving up to the top flight. Watkins was also named Championship Player of the Year which will have affected the fee I think. But yeah, for any young striker moving up from the Championship to the Premiership, I would say that £18m+ (Bowen) to £28m+ (Watkins) will be the range of fees now.
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Our Ty
Nov 22, 2020 16:41:56 GMT
Post by tachyon on Nov 22, 2020 16:41:56 GMT
Watkins was also named Championship Player of the Year which will have affected the fee I think. But yeah, for any young striker moving up from the Championship to the Premiership, I would say that £18m+ (Bowen) to £28m+ (Watkins) will be the range of fees now. 2017 Onwards Player xG per 90 xG per attempt CHAMP WATKINS 0.34 0.12 CHAMP BOWEN 0.33 0.13 CHAMP CAMPBELL 0.23 0.09 Bowen & Watkins had really good xG per 90 numbers in ~ 11,000 minutes of Championship football. TC's not reached those levels in fewer than 3,000 minutes. The former two also got on the end of higher quality chances, TC has been more scattergun with his attempts (more from distance). Comparisons are premature, imo.
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Post by Miles Offside on Nov 22, 2020 16:50:16 GMT
Our Ty is our most important player, both as a creator and as a goal scorer.
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Our Ty
Nov 22, 2020 17:08:11 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2020 17:08:11 GMT
I must admit I was sceptical about hanging our hats on him this season but fair play. He’s oozing confidence, I like that he’s shooting more and just generally being more aggressive. Great numbers so far this season and we will be fucked if he gets injured
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Our Ty
Nov 22, 2020 17:09:27 GMT
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Nov 22, 2020 17:09:27 GMT
Watkins was also named Championship Player of the Year which will have affected the fee I think. But yeah, for any young striker moving up from the Championship to the Premiership, I would say that £18m+ (Bowen) to £28m+ (Watkins) will be the range of fees now. 2017 Onwards Player xG per 90 xG per attempt CHAMP WATKINS 0.34 0.12 CHAMP BOWEN 0.33 0.13 CHAMP CAMPBELL 0.23 0.09 Bowen & Watkins had really good xG per 90 numbers in ~ 11,000 minutes of Championship football. TC's not reached those levels in fewer than 3,000 minutes. The former two also got on the end of higher quality chances, TC has been more scattergun with his attempts (more from distance). Comparisons are premature, imo. He’s not in their class at the moment but the improvement is exciting
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Our Ty
Nov 22, 2020 17:46:59 GMT
Post by damagedswan on Nov 22, 2020 17:46:59 GMT
Watkins was also named Championship Player of the Year which will have affected the fee I think. But yeah, for any young striker moving up from the Championship to the Premiership, I would say that £18m+ (Bowen) to £28m+ (Watkins) will be the range of fees now. 2017 Onwards Player xG per 90 xG per attempt CHAMP WATKINS 0.34 0.12 CHAMP BOWEN 0.33 0.13 CHAMP CAMPBELL 0.23 0.09 Bowen & Watkins had really good xG per 90 numbers in ~ 11,000 minutes of Championship football. TC's not reached those levels in fewer than 3,000 minutes. The former two also got on the end of higher quality chances, TC has been more scattergun with his attempts (more from distance). Comparisons are premature, imo. I'd agree, we're still very early on in the season, and those stats are illuminating - but my point was less about the relative quality of players inside the Championship and more to do with what Championship clubs will ask for their perceived star-players. Unless you think xG is now more of a critical factor for buying clubs when they're deciding how much they're willing to pay?
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Our Ty
Nov 22, 2020 21:38:12 GMT
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Post by 1982stokie on Nov 22, 2020 21:38:12 GMT
West Ham will probably try to unsettle him like they did Arnie and throw in a low offer. He’s a natural finisher they don’t go cheap. He’s priceless right now. Great player. Our Tony won’t mess around he will demand at least 3 million paid over 10 years
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Our Ty
Nov 22, 2020 22:23:02 GMT
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Post by spud on Nov 22, 2020 22:23:02 GMT
We'd need to go up to keep him and we need to keep him to go up
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Our Ty
Nov 23, 2020 21:08:05 GMT
Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2020 21:08:05 GMT
2017 Onwards Player xG per 90 xG per attempt CHAMP WATKINS 0.34 0.12 CHAMP BOWEN 0.33 0.13 CHAMP CAMPBELL 0.23 0.09 Bowen & Watkins had really good xG per 90 numbers in ~ 11,000 minutes of Championship football. TC's not reached those levels in fewer than 3,000 minutes. The former two also got on the end of higher quality chances, TC has been more scattergun with his attempts (more from distance). Comparisons are premature, imo. I'd agree, we're still very early on in the season, and those stats are illuminating - but my point was less about the relative quality of players inside the Championship and more to do with what Championship clubs will ask for their perceived star-players. Unless you think xG is now more of a critical factor for buying clubs when they're deciding how much they're willing to pay? Watkins had two okay years before his sale. While he didn't set the world alight in those years, he did show continued growth. One good goalscoring season isn't necessarily enough to demand a huge price tag.
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Our Ty
Nov 23, 2020 21:40:50 GMT
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Post by GeneralFaye on Nov 23, 2020 21:40:50 GMT
West Ham will probably try to unsettle him like they did Arnie and throw in a low offer. He’s a natural finisher they don’t go cheap. He’s priceless right now. Great player. Wouldn't put it past the bastards. How much did they buy Bowen for? Think it was around £20m.
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Post by markby on Nov 23, 2020 23:19:47 GMT
I'd agree, we're still very early on in the season, and those stats are illuminating - but my point was less about the relative quality of players inside the Championship and more to do with what Championship clubs will ask for their perceived star-players. Unless you think xG is now more of a critical factor for buying clubs when they're deciding how much they're willing to pay? Watkins had two okay years before his sale. While he didn't set the world alight in those years, he did show continued growth. One good goalscoring season isn't necessarily enough to demand a huge price tag. TC and OW are an interesting comparison.
Imo Tachyon's conclusion drawn from the Stats is correct ("premature" to compare him with Watkins), and having seen a lot of Watkins, I think there is another factor, age.
TC will be 21 next month.
Whereas OW will be 25 next month. Moreover, he was already 22 when he signed for Brentford from Exeter. (It would have been a year earlier, only Watkins himself felt another year of regular football with the Grecians would serve him better.)
And when OW finally did sign for Bees, it was as a wide striker - Bees already had the prolific Neal Maupay playing through the middle. Meaning it was only last season when Maupay signed for Brighton for £20m that OW was moved into the middle and really started scoring goals. Nor is it entirely coincidental that OW's old manager at Brentford, Dean Smith, urged Villa to spend so much for him (£28m + up to £4m add-ons), to play as central striker.
Meaning that TC likely needs another couple of seasons (75 games?) under his belt to get him up to Watkins/£28m level.
All that said, from what little I've seen of TC (YouTube/Quest highlights, effectively), I'd say he's got every chance - esp under a clever manager like Michael, and tied down on a long contract at a club which shouldn't need to sell him for the first half-decent offer.
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Our Ty
Nov 23, 2020 23:36:33 GMT
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Post by Championship Potter on Nov 23, 2020 23:36:33 GMT
Watkins had two okay years before his sale. While he didn't set the world alight in those years, he did show continued growth. One good goalscoring season isn't necessarily enough to demand a huge price tag. TC and OW are an interesting comparison. Imo Tachyon's conclusion drawn from the Stats is correct ("premature" to compare him with Watkins), and having seen a lot of Watkins, I think there is another factor, age. TC will be 21 next month. Whereas OW will be 25 next month. Moreover, he was already 22 when he signed for Brentford from Exeter. (It would have been a year earlier, only Watkins himself felt another year of regular football with the Grecians would serve him better.) And when OW finally did sign for Bees, it was as a wide striker - Bees already had the prolific Neal Maupay playing through the middle. Meaning it was only last season when Maupay signed for Brighton for £20m that OW was moved into the middle and really started scoring goals. Nor is it entirely coincidental that OW's old manager at Brentford, Dean Smith, urged Villa to spend so much for him (£28m + up to £4m add-ons), to play as central striker. Meaning that TC likely needs another couple of seasons (75 games?) under his belt to get him up to Watkins/£28m level. All that said, from what little I've seen of TC (YouTube/Quest highlights, effectively), I'd say he's got every chance - esp under a clever manager like Michael, and tied down on a long contract at a club which shouldn't need to sell him for the first half-decent offer.
Agree with this. Age is the big thing on Tyrese’s side. Easy to forget he’s the same age as Brewster and Nketiah who have both been hyped up beyond belief. If he keeps his head down and works hard there’s no reason to think he won’t be significantly better than Watkins in a few years.
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Our Ty
Nov 24, 2020 0:02:12 GMT
Post by markby on Nov 24, 2020 0:02:12 GMT
TC and OW are an interesting comparison. Agree with this. Age is the big thing on Tyrese’s side. Easy to forget he’s the same age as Brewster and Nketiah who have both been hyped up beyond belief. If he keeps his head down and works hard there’s no reason to think he won’t be significantly better than Watkins in a few years. Wow! If he turns out to be "significantly better" than Watkins, then you really will have a top player on your hands, indeed one worth rather more than £28 million!
I remember a couple of seasons back, Clinton Morrison, who had played with him for a bit at Exeter, predicted that Watkins would "go all the way". And when pressed, he specified that he meant England.
I thought that very overstated at the time, but now I reckon that the only thing which will deny Watkins is that England have a huge crop of top class strikers available to them at present, including the incomparable Harry Kane in Watkins' best position at No.9.
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Our Ty
Nov 24, 2020 0:35:25 GMT
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Post by Championship Potter on Nov 24, 2020 0:35:25 GMT
Agree with this. Age is the big thing on Tyrese’s side. Easy to forget he’s the same age as Brewster and Nketiah who have both been hyped up beyond belief. If he keeps his head down and works hard there’s no reason to think he won’t be significantly better than Watkins in a few years. Wow! If he turns out to be "significantly better" than Watkins, then you really will have a top player on your hands, indeed one worth rather more than £28 million! I remember a couple of seasons back, Clinton Morrison, who had played with him for a bit at Exeter, predicted that Watkins would "go all the way". And when pressed, he specified that he meant England. I thought that very overstated at the time, but now I reckon that the only thing which will deny Watkins is that England have a huge crop of top class strikers available to them at present, including the incomparable Harry Kane in Watkins' best position at No.9.
Don’t get me wrong, Watkins is a brilliant player and Campbell will do very well to get to that level. At the same time, in his age bracket Campbell is one of the most exciting players in the country. I’d say Nketiah is the better finisher but Campbell is possibly a better all round player. Campbell looks miles better than Brewster at present (admittedly Brewster is playing in a higher league and struggling with it) and Sheff Utd stumped up £24m for him.
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Post by wherty on Nov 24, 2020 7:58:21 GMT
I bet Nathan Jones looks at Ty and thinks, “If only I wasn’t such a bellend, I should have built my team around him, instead I sent him to Shrewsbury and signed Lee Gregory” Ty is very much about how he is managed. Nathan Jones wasn't the best at man management to say the least. Ty has always been held in great aspiration and if you've watched him for the last 4 years, he's always needed to be encouraged to get in the game more as he can lose himself sometimes and lose interest. Best thing happen to Ty is MON and his management style. Ty is very appreciative of this as his his dad Kevin.
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Our Ty
Nov 24, 2020 8:03:01 GMT
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Post by bgreen13 on Nov 24, 2020 8:03:01 GMT
I’ve mentioned it before but it’s a travesty that he’s not been involved much with England under 21’s!
I believe he’ll make any step up necessary with ease, he seems that sort of player.
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Our Ty
Nov 25, 2020 10:57:01 GMT
Post by prestwichpotter on Nov 25, 2020 10:57:01 GMT
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Our Ty
Nov 25, 2020 14:51:37 GMT
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 25, 2020 14:51:37 GMT
Difficult decisions for the club clearly if we don’t go up he won’t be here next year so we either go for it in January In terms of activity loans etc in the hope we can do a villa and mount a late run into the play offs or we accept he’s offf and next year we have to use the funds to build a different offensive unit
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Post by davejohnno1 on Nov 25, 2020 15:10:21 GMT
Difficult decisions for the club clearly if we don’t go up he won’t be here next year so we either go for it in January In terms of activity loans etc in the hope we can do a villa and mount a late run into the play offs or we accept he’s offf and next year we have to use the funds to build a different offensive unit It shouldn't be a difficult decision in reality. If we don't manage to go up and we get an offer which sees us maximise his value then we have to sell irrespective of how unpalatable that would be to supporters. We have to be a club that recruits well, sells the odd player for big money that then enables us to reinvest that money to buy 3 or 4 better players that will push us on. If that is Ty, Collins or whoever, so be it. We should have cashed in on Butland and Allen on relegation. I don't think we will make such mistakes again. We have to sell at good money to grow as a club. 10m to Bournemouth wasn't worth considering. 20m + add ons and a sell on clause from, for arguments sake, Brighton, is a different matter entirely.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Nov 25, 2020 19:16:40 GMT
Difficult decisions for the club clearly if we don’t go up he won’t be here next year so we either go for it in January In terms of activity loans etc in the hope we can do a villa and mount a late run into the play offs or we accept he’s offf and next year we have to use the funds to build a different offensive unit It shouldn't be a difficult decision in reality. If we don't manage to go up and we get an offer which sees us maximise his value then we have to sell irrespective of how unpalatable that would be to supporters. We have to be a club that recruits well, sells the odd player for big money that then enables us to reinvest that money to buy 3 or 4 better players that will push us on. If that is Ty, Collins or whoever, so be it. We should have cashed in on Butland and Allen on relegation. I don't think we will make such mistakes again. We have to sell at good money to grow as a club. 10m to Bournemouth wasn't worth considering. 20m + add ons and a sell on clause from, for arguments sake, Brighton, is a different matter entirely. Dave I don’t disagree but I can see collins ans Tymon going to Brighton for £5m plus glen Murray on a 5 year deal with a grinning Scholes pictures over the contrat saying now that’s ambition
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Our Ty
Nov 25, 2020 19:42:31 GMT
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Post by gingerninja on Nov 25, 2020 19:42:31 GMT
Dave,your assessment is spot on, ultimately have to recruit extremely well at all levels and when we make a profit, invest it wisely..
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