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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2020 12:48:28 GMT
We should be targeting a young version of Fletcher moving forward, we have nothing in the U23's of his type forward wise, in fact no forwards at all at the moment!! We had a couple of good forward prospects of late, but, disappointingly, we haven't been able to keep them here. The fact that they have been courted and ultimately poached away by other clubs shows that the coaches are doing the right thing. As Fletcher is certain to lead the line for a couple of years, fitness permitting, there's time to bring some talent through. Whether any kid striker is going to be blooded straight out of the academy is fairly unlikely though.
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Post by march4 on Oct 25, 2020 12:52:34 GMT
Hopefully verlinden is the next to get his chance. Showed some really good touches before he got injured, with a bit of bulking up and becoming more streetwise he could be some player. He's still the best prospect of the lot Really!!!!!
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Post by JoeinOz on Oct 25, 2020 13:14:29 GMT
Hopefully when Verlo returns he’ll get opportunities.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 25, 2020 13:21:13 GMT
As a matter of interest who (if anyone) is our defensive coach? If we don't have one, we could do worse than approach Clint Hill at the end of the season. No idea and I agree. I can't see why he would give up an assistant manager post though with someone who he seems to have got a good bond going with. He might do if we got promoted this season.
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Post by stokecitytalke on Oct 25, 2020 13:31:49 GMT
Just appoint Ryan as defensive coach.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2020 13:37:22 GMT
I still think he's fannied around with them too much tbh.
Collins should have been in the side last season. Souttar should have been recalled. Verlinden needs more games.
But he's finally there I think now, so that's excellent. But it's taken far too long to get here.
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Post by prettything on Oct 25, 2020 13:42:45 GMT
I still think he's fannied around with them too much tbh. Collins should have been in the side last season. Souttar should have been recalled. Verlinden needs more games. But he's finally there I think now, so that's excellent. But it's taken far too long to get here. Not in a relegation fight. I disagree.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2020 13:45:45 GMT
I still think he's fannied around with them too much tbh. Collins should have been in the side last season. Souttar should have been recalled. Verlinden needs more games. But he's finally there I think now, so that's excellent. But it's taken far too long to get here. Not in a relegation fight. I disagree. I don’t think it mattered. They’re better than the experienced players. Indeed the experience is what got us there in the first place. Same for Jones. Why he wasn’t using Collins as a regular is a mystery to me. And Campbell from the start of last season. There was no reason for it bar “experience”. Which again I think was the issue. As I’ve been saying for 2 years now, I really think these players are our best chance of getting out of here. I believed it back then and I’ve never been more convinced I’m right than now.
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Post by prettything on Oct 25, 2020 13:52:15 GMT
Not in a relegation fight. I disagree. I don’t think it mattered. They’re better than the experienced players. Indeed the experience is what got us there in the first place. Same for Jones. Why he wasn’t using Collins as a regular is a mystery to me. And Campbell from the start of last season. There was no reason for it bar “experience”. Which again I think was the issue. As I’ve been saying for 2 years now, I really think these players are our best chance of getting out of here. I believed it back then and I’ve never been more convinced I’m right than now. I think Souttar has benefited immensely from his loan spells. He is clearly more advanced than Collins at present, because of this. If they were thrown in under Jones, who knows what is might have done to their confidence at such an early stage of their career. I can understand your view, Bayern. You have always been a purist with your approach to the game. I respect that.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2020 14:00:02 GMT
I don’t think it mattered. They’re better than the experienced players. Indeed the experience is what got us there in the first place. Same for Jones. Why he wasn’t using Collins as a regular is a mystery to me. And Campbell from the start of last season. There was no reason for it bar “experience”. Which again I think was the issue. As I’ve been saying for 2 years now, I really think these players are our best chance of getting out of here. I believed it back then and I’ve never been more convinced I’m right than now. I think Souttar has benefited immensely from his loan spells. He is clearly more advanced than Collins at present, because of this. If they were thrown in under Jones, who knows what is might have done to their confidence at such an early stage of their career. I can understand your view, Bayern. You have always been a purist with your approach to the game. I respect that. I think he’s come on leaps and bounds for sure but I also think he was this ready in January of this year to be recalled. He’s also 2/3 years older than Collins. Collins I’m almost certain will move to a Champions League club within 2 years. Souttar has definitely got the PL in his sights now which tbh I didn’t think would happen but the loan has helped him. It’s exciting. Who knows, they might have got us results? I don’t think playing good players is a risk. You’ve just got to manage it and I don’t think MON did that well last year. But I can’t complain about this season re that and you know I would 😂
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Post by marylandstoke on Oct 25, 2020 14:09:13 GMT
Must have a decent bond with Barton, both of them born and raised in Huyton too so although slight age gap probably go way back. We do have a link with Barton. He’s the nephew of a certain Tony “Zico” Kelly. What a cracking factoid. Still not sure how your going to get to Kevin Bacon from there but....
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 25, 2020 18:19:32 GMT
I still think he's fannied around with them too much tbh. Collins should have been in the side last season. Souttar should have been recalled. Verlinden needs more games. But he's finally there I think now, so that's excellent. But it's taken far too long to get here. Collins played 17 games last season. That’s plenty of football for an 18 year old centre back who got exposed on several occasions. How do you know that Souttar could have been recalled? You don’t agree to loan players out for a season and recall them on a whim, it simply doesn’t work that way. Verlinden was on loan at Bolton and did his cruciate the week after he came back. With that in mind, please explain when, exactly, do you think he could have had “more games” after that? Mind blowing, ludicrously over the top criticism.
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Post by RF10 on Oct 25, 2020 18:28:47 GMT
No idea and I agree. I can't see why he would give up an assistant manager post though with someone who he seems to have got a good bond going with. He might do if we got promoted this season. That would be very Quitrel behaviour wouldn't it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2020 19:23:13 GMT
I still think he's fannied around with them too much tbh. Collins should have been in the side last season. Souttar should have been recalled. Verlinden needs more games. But he's finally there I think now, so that's excellent. But it's taken far too long to get here. Collins played 17 games last season. That’s plenty of football for an 18 year old centre back who got exposed on several occasions. How do you know that Souttar could have been recalled? You don’t agree to loan players out for a season and recall them on a whim, it simply doesn’t work that way. Verlinden was on loan at Bolton and did his cruciate the week after he came back. With that in mind, please explain when, exactly, do you think he could have had “more games” after that? Mind blowing, ludicrously over the top criticism. It really isn’t. Collins should have had 30 games last season. A lot have recall clauses and if ours didn’t then more fool the club. Was it that soon with Verlinden? It’s felt like a waste of 12 months with them for me. But I’m just glad they’re finally being used. Because they are the hope here.
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Post by lordb on Oct 25, 2020 19:23:59 GMT
He's still the best prospect of the lot Really!!!!! Yup
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 25, 2020 19:27:28 GMT
I agree totally with Verlinden going out on loan, same with Souttar. Collins has the hallmarks of a good centre half but I think he played enough last year. I think the manager has got all these right
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2020 19:32:50 GMT
I agree totally with Verlinden going out on loan, same with Souttar. Collins has the hallmarks of a good centre half but I think he played enough last year. I think the manager has got all these right And I don’t. Collins has been this good for 12/18 months. We’ve wasted him. Souttar has been this good since at least Jan. And I don’t get why we loaned Verlinden out actually. But if Jones was stupid enough not to use his then made it made sense but he was ready then too.
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Post by nonameface on Oct 25, 2020 19:37:19 GMT
I agree totally with Verlinden going out on loan, same with Souttar. Collins has the hallmarks of a good centre half but I think he played enough last year. I think the manager has got all these right And I don’t. Collins has been this good for 12/18 months. We’ve wasted him. Souttar has been this good since at least Jan. And I don’t get why we loaned Verlinden out actually. But if Jones was stupid enough not to use his then made it made sense but he was ready then too. Perhaps it hasn't been optimal timing, but, if they had have played from the times you had hoped we wouldn't have got promoted with them and may have lost them by now. MON may not be doing a perfect job, but he's still doing a very good one, especially at bringing through younger players.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 25, 2020 19:42:07 GMT
And I don’t. Collins has been this good for 12/18 months. We’ve wasted him. Souttar has been this good since at least Jan. And I don’t get why we loaned Verlinden out actually. But if Jones was stupid enough not to use his then made it made sense but he was ready then too. Perhaps it hasn't been optimal timing, but, if they had have played from the times you had hoped we wouldn't have got promoted with them and may have lost them by now. MON may not be doing a perfect job, but he's still doing a very good one, especially at bringing through younger players. Lost in what sense? Selling them for a big profit? It’s exactly why I want them playing. He was way too cautious with. Thankfully he’s got over that now it seems. Just needs to get Verlinden in that role Brown has yesterday. He’d excel there.
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 25, 2020 19:43:36 GMT
I agree totally with Verlinden going out on loan, same with Souttar. Collins has the hallmarks of a good centre half but I think he played enough last year. I think the manager has got all these right And I don’t. Collins has been this good for 12/18 months. We’ve wasted him. Souttar has been this good since at least Jan. And I don’t get why we loaned Verlinden out actually. But if Jones was stupid enough not to use his then made it made sense but he was ready then too. Well you disagree, no surprise there😏 I really like Verlinden but I think regular game time was a good option if he wasn’t getting games at Stoke, I think injury permitting he will be a very good player. As for Souttar, I think at the time the general consensus was he wasn’t quite ready especially the state we were in. He performed well at Fleetwood and has looked excellent since he came back. I don’t think he would be in the first team had he stayed in U23s at Stoke, so again a good move for me. Collins is a strange one for me, I get that he is a potentially excellent centre half but let’s be honest he’s not had great games so far this season he’s been steady. Having said that I’d obviously half Collins and Souttar over Chester and Batth all day.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 25, 2020 20:05:57 GMT
Collins played 17 games last season. That’s plenty of football for an 18 year old centre back who got exposed on several occasions. How do you know that Souttar could have been recalled? You don’t agree to loan players out for a season and recall them on a whim, it simply doesn’t work that way. Verlinden was on loan at Bolton and did his cruciate the week after he came back. With that in mind, please explain when, exactly, do you think he could have had “more games” after that? Mind blowing, ludicrously over the top criticism. It really isn’t. Collins should have had 30 games last season. A lot have recall clauses and if ours didn’t then more fool the club. Was it that soon with Verlinden? It’s felt like a waste of 12 months with them for me. But I’m just glad they’re finally being used. Because they are the hope here. How many times did you personally watch Souttar playing for Fleetwood last season to know that that he was ready to come back and play for us? To say Collins should have played 30 games, instead of the 17 he did play is just needless nit picking. MON has handled him to a tee so far.
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 26, 2020 0:41:52 GMT
It really isn’t. Collins should have had 30 games last season. A lot have recall clauses and if ours didn’t then more fool the club. Was it that soon with Verlinden? It’s felt like a waste of 12 months with them for me. But I’m just glad they’re finally being used. Because they are the hope here. How many times did you personally watch Souttar playing for Fleetwood last season to know that that he was ready to come back and play for us? To say Collins should have played 30 games, instead of the 17 he did play is just needless nit picking. MON has handled him to a tee so far. If they were introduced when they were ready I doubt we'd have seen unnecessary signings like Lindsay and Chester and possibly a forward and we would be that much closer to meeting our FFP obligations. When I say introduced I'm referring to matchday squad not necessarily starting.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 26, 2020 1:11:43 GMT
How many times did you personally watch Souttar playing for Fleetwood last season to know that that he was ready to come back and play for us? To say Collins should have played 30 games, instead of the 17 he did play is just needless nit picking. MON has handled him to a tee so far. If they were introduced when they were ready I doubt we'd have seen unnecessary signings like Lindsay and Chester and possibly a forward and we would be that much closer to meeting our FFP obligations. When I say introduced I'm referring to matchday squad not necessarily starting. They have been introduced when they were ready. I think the development of both players has been dealt with really well.
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Post by potterpaul on Oct 26, 2020 3:51:44 GMT
If they were introduced when they were ready I doubt we'd have seen unnecessary signings like Lindsay and Chester and possibly a forward and we would be that much closer to meeting our FFP obligations. When I say introduced I'm referring to matchday squad not necessarily starting. They have been introduced when they were ready. I think the development of both players has been dealt with really well. Excuse me for ignoring your thoughts as in August you posted that neither Collins, Souttar Tymon were any where near ready nor good enough. Think it was on a 'Chester' thread.
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Post by hcstokie on Oct 26, 2020 6:15:03 GMT
For once can we not just be happy that we have an exciting crop of young players coming through at the club instead of arguing about it? I’ve never known us have so many decent prospects break through into the team at once yet we still manage to moan and argue about it.
FFS just enjoy the ride, watch them develop and see where it takes us.
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Post by supersimonstainrod on Oct 26, 2020 6:32:00 GMT
If they were introduced when they were ready I doubt we'd have seen unnecessary signings like Lindsay and Chester and possibly a forward and we would be that much closer to meeting our FFP obligations. When I say introduced I'm referring to matchday squad not necessarily starting. They have been introduced when they were ready. I think the development of both players has been dealt with really well. I think the case of Souttar particularly lends much credence to what you say: there were almost as many people who felt he wouldn't make it at this level as would,now we're talking about Collins and HS as first picks. He's definitely benefitted from his experience at Fleetwood,and I think it provided a better environment to 'learn' in compared to the season we were having,I think playing in a defence that was regularly exposed could've destoyed a young players confidence,until the introduction of MON's steadying hand.
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Post by foxysgloves on Oct 26, 2020 7:28:15 GMT
They have been introduced when they were ready. I think the development of both players has been dealt with really well. I think the case of Souttar particularly lends much credence to what you say: there were almost as many people who felt he wouldn't make it at this level as would,now we're talking about Collins and HS as first picks. He's definitely benefitted from his experience at Fleetwood,and I think it provided a better environment to 'learn' in compared to the season we were having,I think playing in a defence that was regularly exposed could've destoyed a young players confidence,until the introduction of MON's steadying hand. I think MON has, so far, handled our up and coming young players about as well as any Stoke manager I can recall. Maybe he’s lucky that our youth system has finally produced talent but from what I can see he’s handled Campbell, Soutarr and Collins very well. If Verlinden hadn’t got crocked he might well be in and around the starting 11 too. Tymon looks a completely different player (not exactly young but not old either) and there are others he seems keen to bring on. Happy days.
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Post by foxysgloves on Oct 26, 2020 7:32:32 GMT
For once can we not just be happy that we have an exciting crop of young players coming through at the club instead of arguing about it? I’ve never known us have so many decent prospects break through into the team at once yet we still manage to moan and argue about it. FFS just enjoy the ride, watch them develop and see where it takes us. We love a good argument on here! Plus we have Bayern, the Oatcake equivalent of James Whale. He could start an argument in an empty room.
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Post by mickstupp on Oct 26, 2020 8:29:30 GMT
They have been introduced when they were ready. I think the development of both players has been dealt with really well. Excuse me for ignoring your thoughts as in August you posted that neither Collins, Souttar Tymon were any where near ready nor good enough. Think it was on a 'Chester' thread. That’s correct, yes. I was endorsing and agreeing with MON’s comments after the Forest game that the youngsters all needed to step up and show us more. Aside from possibly Campbell, I don’t think any of them were particularly good last season. I didn’t include Souttar in that because I hadn’t seen him play at Fleetwood to gauge his progress and I dare say you hadn’t either?
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Post by santy on Oct 26, 2020 8:37:58 GMT
If we want youngsters to learn defending, and especially the gritty stuff, buy Pulis a farm on some Austrian mountainside and just start sending them to live with him for 6 months.
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