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Post by britvic72 on Oct 22, 2020 20:32:10 GMT
Didn’t take long that did it. Certainly didn't. Stoke must have got the evidence down to the FA early this morning, which is good, and they convened a panel very quickly. The referee must also have filed his report straight away. Probably helped by the fact that so many panel members are at home at the moment, and available to do a hearing almost straight away. Not sure an appeal went in in the first place. Ref may have been shown the footage and said he got it wrong in his report?
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Post by madnellie on Oct 22, 2020 20:56:07 GMT
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 22, 2020 22:20:36 GMT
Certainly didn't. Stoke must have got the evidence down to the FA early this morning, which is good, and they convened a panel very quickly. The referee must also have filed his report straight away. Probably helped by the fact that so many panel members are at home at the moment, and available to do a hearing almost straight away. Not sure an appeal went in in the first place. Ref may have been shown the footage and said he got it wrong in his report? I would think that's unlikely because it could only have happened immediately after the game in an informal situation. It would be before he wrote his report which would have to say why he dismissed the player, and then say that he has changed his mind having seen a video pitchside. He knows that there is a procedure for correcting obvious mistakes which will look at the video.
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Post by maninasuitcase on Oct 22, 2020 23:33:17 GMT
The only two things that need correcting are the rescinding of the red card, which has happened, and the hope those officials never set foot in our stadium again.
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Post by citynickscfc on Oct 23, 2020 2:18:58 GMT
The only two things that need correcting are the rescinding of the red card, which has happened, and the hope those officials never set foot in our stadium again. Still don't understand with the technology available why, when massive game changing, game ruining decisions are to be made, why they do not consult replays just to ensure that 'in their minds' they get it right. Reflection often helps, and removes hindsight
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Oct 23, 2020 6:14:26 GMT
Maybe banning players for 5 games who cheat to get a player sent off, will cut it out.
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 23, 2020 6:44:27 GMT
Maybe banning players for 5 games who cheat to get a player sent off, will cut it out. Good point. I'd like to see the video Stoke supplied to the League which overturned the red card. If as seems likely, there was nothing more than a coming together or, at worst, obstruction, if the Barnsley player DID fall down clutching his face when it had not been touched, then there is a good case for a ban - I and I have to wonder why he hasn't been banned. As he sometimes sits on these panels, I'd love to have Malcolm Clarke's views on this. Simple justice dictates that if a player gets wrongly sent off because of "simulation," then the player who caused the sending off should receive, at minimum, a similar ban to the one which has now been overturned.
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Post by jeycov on Oct 23, 2020 7:00:49 GMT
The reality is that another team / rival benefit Impossible but serving a ban the next time the player is scheduled to play the club that were penalised would be fairer
Retrospective ban / fine more realistic
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 23, 2020 7:16:55 GMT
The reality is that another team / rival benefit Impossible but serving a ban the next time the player is scheduled to play the club that were penalised would be fairer Retrospective ban / fine more realistic Both options would be good - and fair. Instead of a ban for the next 3 games - a 2 game immediate ban plus a ban from the next game between the two clubs!
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Oct 23, 2020 7:23:59 GMT
Wont play. Baath Chester Souttar.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Oct 23, 2020 7:36:40 GMT
The reality is that another team / rival benefit Impossible but serving a ban the next time the player is scheduled to play the club that were penalised would be fairer Retrospective ban / fine more realistic I think the point is Jey that it’s more of a deterrent to stop the cheating tossers in the first place. The heavier the fine/punishment then the less likely they will be to try to cheat to get a player sent off and therefore effect the outcome of the original game.
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Post by nottsover60 on Oct 23, 2020 7:42:50 GMT
The only two things that need correcting are the rescinding of the red card, which has happened, and the hope those officials never set foot in our stadium again. Still don't understand with the technology available why, when massive game changing, game ruining decisions are to be made, why they do not consult replays just to ensure that 'in their minds' they get it right. Reflection often helps, and removes hindsight That's called Video Assisted Refereeing. Not sure if your comment was tongue in cheek!
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Post by Kingswaystokie on Oct 23, 2020 8:00:02 GMT
Hope we don't miss out on promotion by 2 points.......
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Post by essexstokey on Oct 23, 2020 9:00:24 GMT
Maybe banning players for 5 games who cheat to get a player sent off, will cut it out. I'd say double it each time and allow a club to not pay them for the missed games also 1 ban to be saved for the next Time they played against that club
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2020 9:05:51 GMT
Nothing corrupt , ridiculous to suggest so, just a poor decision from a naff official who will be officiating in a lower league as a result this weekend
I just can't see what the decision was for.
Anyway been overturned but doesn't help us re the result
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Post by spitthedog on Oct 23, 2020 9:11:24 GMT
Just plain incompetence. It happens and will happen again. It's football. It evens itself out over a season (see Preston)
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Post by leicspotter on Oct 23, 2020 9:34:58 GMT
Thing is though fuck all happens which is ridiculous. Imagine if we got relegated by 1 point? This shit with these refs is a joke and they get no punishment at all That's not actually true. They are all assessed at every game, and the PGMOL view all controversial incidents and overturned decisions, and it can affect promotion and match allocation. Sometimes officials get demoted - it happened to Stuart Atwell a few years ago when he lost his PL status, and he's now back again based on his performances. People in any profession sometimes make mistakes. That includes professional footballers. The Barnsley 'keeper made a bad one last night which gave us a goal. We have benefitted in the past from match officials mistakes and will no doubt do so again at some point in the future. It's very annoying when it happens to our team but human beings sometimes make mistakes. If we had had VAR last night it would probably have been overturned last night, or not even made in the first place if the Ref had looked at the monitor. Would he (the ref) then sent off the Barnsley player for simulation I wonder? Probably not eh
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Post by thestatusquo on Oct 23, 2020 9:46:16 GMT
Some “liners “ are not content with just sticking to the bulk of their jobs of throws and offsides and want to involve themselves in the game more. When this happens quite often they are so focused on other areas of the pitch that they then miss things which they are responsible for which happened the other night. On the other hand he could just be shit.
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Post by TinkerT on Oct 23, 2020 10:59:50 GMT
Thing is though fuck all happens which is ridiculous. Imagine if we got relegated by 1 point? This shit with these refs is a joke and they get no punishment at all That's not actually true. They are all assessed at every game, and the PGMOL view all controversial incidents and overturned decisions, and it can affect promotion and match allocation. Sometimes officials get demoted - it happened to Stuart Atwell a few years ago when he lost his PL status, and he's now back again based on his performances. People in any profession sometimes make mistakes. That includes professional footballers. The Barnsley 'keeper made a bad one last night which gave us a goal. We have benefitted in the past from match officials mistakes and will no doubt do so again at some point in the future. It's very annoying when it happens to our team but human beings sometimes make mistakes. If we had had VAR last night it would probably have been overturned last night, or not even made in the first place if the Ref had looked at the monitor. Yes they get demoted a game or two but they don't loose any cash, us football clubs loose cash from there crap decisions if we miss out on promotion or relegated due to them being so useless.
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Post by PotterLog on Oct 23, 2020 11:08:52 GMT
We don’t know if he cheated or simulated. Collins could have caught him accidentally.
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Post by bgreen13 on Oct 23, 2020 11:13:27 GMT
Just plain incompetence. It happens and will happen again. It's football. It evens itself out over a season (see Preston) Which in itself 'evened' itself out from the previous 2 Preston meetings
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Oct 23, 2020 11:58:43 GMT
We don’t know if he cheated or simulated. Collins could have caught him accidentally. That's why it would be good to see the footage of the incident which Stoke's analytical team have. But it MAY be significant that, in his interviews after the game, MON seemed to suggest that the Barnsley player made it out to be a far more serious incident than it was.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 23, 2020 12:08:04 GMT
Maybe banning players for 5 games who cheat to get a player sent off, will cut it out. Good point. I'd like to see the video Stoke supplied to the League which overturned the red card. If as seems likely, there was nothing more than a coming together or, at worst, obstruction, if the Barnsley player DID fall down clutching his face when it had not been touched, then there is a good case for a ban - I and I have to wonder why he hasn't been banned. As he sometimes sits on these panels, I'd love to have Malcolm Clarke's views on this. Simple justice dictates that if a player gets wrongly sent off because of "simulation," then the player who caused the sending off should receive, at minimum, a similar ban to the one which has now been overturned. Ok - the process is this. The FA does have the power under the regs. to charge a player with "successful deception of a match official". It only applies where it results in a red card or penalty ( which is the case here). That's because they are seen as game changing consequences. The rationale is that it wouldn't be logical to retrospectively impose a penalty for say something that happened in the middle of the pitch which is more serious than the yellow card which would have been shown had the ref seen it. If it's a red card situation the process can only start after the regulatory commission has heard the appeal against the dismissal for obvious reasons. If the appeal fails, by definition the match official cannot be assumed to have been deceived. If the FA disciplinary section think there is case to answer, it is referred to an independent panel comprising an ex-referee, and ex-manager and an ex-player. If they are unanimous that it was deception, the FA will charge the player. But if one of them disagrees, there will be no further action. If the player is charged it goes to a regulatory commission who will determine the penalty. So, in this case, the appeal was successful, but that was only yesterday. The FA obviously have the video evidence which led to the successful appeal. IF they think there is a deception case to answer, it will have gone to a panel of 3 as above. Their decision would be today at the earliest I would imagine. IF they are unanimous it was deception, the FA will charge the player who has time to respond before it goes to a Commission. This process might still be underway, or it might not. We have no way of knowing. And of course none of us have seen the video, so we can't express an opinion.
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Post by Northy on Oct 23, 2020 12:15:06 GMT
Any idea who the linesman was, I can only find the referee's name ?
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Post by thestatusquo on Oct 23, 2020 12:38:10 GMT
Any idea who the linesman was, I can only find the referee's name ? I believe it was a Mr A B’Stard
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Post by thehartshillbadger on Oct 23, 2020 12:44:32 GMT
Any idea who the linesman was, I can only find the referee's name ? It was either Richard Wild or Nik Barnard.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 23, 2020 13:12:41 GMT
That's not actually true. They are all assessed at every game, and the PGMOL view all controversial incidents and overturned decisions, and it can affect promotion and match allocation. Sometimes officials get demoted - it happened to Stuart Atwell a few years ago when he lost his PL status, and he's now back again based on his performances. People in any profession sometimes make mistakes. That includes professional footballers. The Barnsley 'keeper made a bad one last night which gave us a goal. We have benefitted in the past from match officials mistakes and will no doubt do so again at some point in the future. It's very annoying when it happens to our team but human beings sometimes make mistakes. If we had had VAR last night it would probably have been overturned last night, or not even made in the first place if the Ref had looked at the monitor. Yes they get demoted a game or two but they don't loose any cash, us football clubs loose cash from there crap decisions if we miss out on promotion or relegated due to them being so useless. Well yes, but people in any job sometimes make mistakes, and don't normally get "fined" for that. We have to be both realistic and reasonable, don't we ? None of us have any idea of this particular Assistant Referee's level performance week by week. If it regularly isn't good, he might not go any higher or might be demoted. But even the best match officials, just like in any other job, don't get everything right. And none of us have seen the video so we don't know how big an error this was. Tomorrow we might benefit from a match official's error. One thing is for sure, so long as human beings are doing the job, mistakes will sometimes happen.
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Post by nott1 on Oct 23, 2020 13:17:30 GMT
My guess is that the ref never saw the incident so should not have issued a red card in the first place!
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Post by bayernoatcake on Oct 23, 2020 13:19:49 GMT
My guess is that the ref never saw the incident so should not have issued a red card in the first place! But refs can’t see everything and they have to trust the word of their linesmen or 4th official.
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Post by nott1 on Oct 23, 2020 13:21:35 GMT
My guess is that the ref never saw the incident so should not have issued a red card in the first place! But refs can’t see everything and they have to trust the word of their linesmen or 4th official. Or Barnsley player?
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